Revived Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Prior to Whole30, I'd done tons and tons of research and had basically decided that the healthiest way was to cut down on meats and get protein from other sources. Even Michael Pollen says meat should be used sparingly like a condiment. And Whole30 is so similar to Paleo which has always seemed to me like Atkins with another name. So it feels very strange to be doing this thing which is the opposite to what i thought i should be doing. I'm so confused. The whole paralysis by analysis thing really resonated with me. That's what happens to me all the time! and then i end up saying screw it, I'll just eat junk till i figure it out. I know the book also says scientific evidence can only get you so far and you just need to experiment on yourself and see what the results are so I'm definitely viewing this as a 30 day experiment and no one says i have to eat like this for the rest of my life. I'll re-evaluate when its over. and that's fine. i just hate that i have this nagging doubt and i wish i could justify WHY eating this way is healthy - i mean as far as the meat consumption. i would really like the Whole30 people to sit down with Michael Pollen and a few other nutrition big names I've researched and hammer this out and then just give me the one right way. Because its definitely the paralysis by analysis thing that messes with me. I just read this paleo article that was linked to from these forums and it was saying you should eat mostly red fatty meat and organ meat with poultry and fish sparingly because of the high omega-6 content. !!! It's just so opposite what I thought was right. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around it. And olive oil and avocado and eggs sparingly too but the Whole30 people are like go crazy with eggs and avocado!! i know you have to pick something that works for you and go with it but this is like my OCD thing. I want to know the BEST way, the RIGHT way. I at least want firm reasons to support what I'm doing. Right now i just feel confused. I'm not saying screw it though like i usually do. I'm just going with the program and seeing what's what after 30 days but i really don't know what to do afterward. And I just wish I felt more at peace with the program. I'm only on Day 4 so maybe when I start feeling better I won't care what Micheal Pollen says but right now I'm so conflicted! Anyone have advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Physibeth Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 The problem is there is no one right way for everybody. We are all unique and our bodies all have slightly different needs and tolerances based on lots of different factors. Personally I tried implementing the lifestyle that Michael Pollen suggests is best and while I felt better it didn't cure my food dependencies or my need to constantly eat like Paleo has. If you have read the literature and it makes sense giving it a shot for 30 days can't really hurt right? It might not be correct for you, but you won't know if you don't try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I hear two things in your post, underneath the confusion and frustration. I hear you saying "tell me the right way and tell me soon." I also hear you saying "wanting to know is an issue that I know that I have." When I committed to Whole30, I agreed to 30 days of trusting the folks at Whole9. I read the science-y stuff and decided it sounded like it could work for me. I tested it on myself, without adding tweaks from anyone else. It's only 30 days, right? So, I gave my trust and put myself into the experiment and 30 days has become more days than not. I hope you can resolve the conflict between wanting to know and know that you want to know something that maybe only you can answer. All the best with your Whole30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtota Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I am so loving your post. I am right there with you on the paralysis by analysis thing. I have analyzed to death. You can see it on my old threads. From vegan to whole 30 to vegan and back again. I'm actually quite embarrassed by it. It's just that both ways sound so great and so full of promise. I have been off this site for awhile - back to my old high carb vegan ways, then falling back to SAD. And of course now I am back to fatigue and binge eating etc . . . thinking about giving this a go again starting 6/1/13 but scared I will over think it and blow it again. Trust is hard and old habits are hard to break . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beets Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 The problem is there is no one right way for everybody. We are all unique and our bodies all have slightly different needs and tolerances based on lots of different factors. Personally I tried implementing the lifestyle that Michael Pollen suggests is best and while I felt better it didn't cure my food dependencies or my need to constantly eat like Paleo has. If you have read the literature and it makes sense giving it a shot for 30 days can't really hurt right? It might not be correct for you, but you won't know if you don't try. Ditto and I had the same experience. A couple years ago I was eating like Pollan and Mark Bittman and Fuhrman of Eat to Live suggest (mostly veg with occasional meat). I lost weight, but kept struggling with sugar cravings, sugar binges and associated bad feelings. Even eating something like farro or gluten-free non-GMO oatmeal could trigger days of sugar cravings. Plus I had to use WW and weigh and track my food, or I'd over eat grains. The only way to know what works for you is to give it a full-on try. I perks a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revived Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 yeah, I'm definitely trying to suspend all doubt or anything i "think" i know and just see what happens for 30 days. I've lost 50 + lbs over like 3 years. I turned 30 this year and swore i would kick off my 30s with a healthy weight but i blew that. I just keep going round in circles trying to find the BEST way but also something sustainable. My most recent endeavor was a 30 day juice fast where i crashed and burned on day 12 with a massive 2 week food binge. So obviously that didn't work for me. The weight loss is very high up on the priority list. I'm still about 40-50lbs over weight and ive been fat for so long. I'm impatient!!! But I also suffer from trouble sleeping, anxiety, unmanageable sugar/carb cravings, brain fog, extremely low energy and general moodiness. So I'm pretty desperate to feel better. I have a reallllllllly hard time sticking to things. Consistency and planning are skills I'm still working towards. But these seems more doable than a juice fast! I guess i just want to know how others have so much peace about this lifestyle or a paleo lifestyle when there's so much conflicting information. I just want to feel at peace with whatever I'm doing and not be constantly wondering if I should do something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Physibeth Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 How I've come to peace with what I'm doing: - I've read (and continue to read) from a large volume of authors on traditional real food lifestyles. - I've come to understand what it takes to make dairy, legumes, and grains easy to digest and healthier based on traditional preparation methods and come to terms with the fact that after 30+ days without I don't miss legumes and grains enough to spend that time preparing them. - I did my 30 days (not W30 but close) and slept better, no longer needed to eat between meals, had no cravings for off plan foods, no longer had brain fog, am much less moody, have better digestion and less heartburn, and I lost weight. - I added back in traditional (raw/grassfed) dairy and found it to be agreeable so I continue to have it when I want because I love it. - I've offroaded a bit in other areas and saw noticeable changes in all those improved things. One meal made me cranky and tired. - I accept that this is sustainable because I'm eating what I want and what my body wants and I know that I'm choosing not to have things not being told I can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephanie Starkey Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 "When I committed to Whole30, I agreed to 30 days of trusting the folks at Whole9." This is the key. We are all constantly bombarded with information and it is hard to resist the temptation to check for ways we can make our program "just a bit better." It is also hard not to be fixated on results but that is just what we have to do. The way not to constantly wonder how to reconcile the conflicting information is to simply shut it out. Adjust the focus to, "I want to see if I can complete this thing as prescribed for a full 30 days." Make the challenge itself the objective and your results will be what they will, good or bad. Tweak the program, and you'll never know. You can do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyS Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 I think the hardest thing (and maybe especially for women) in our society is how we assign a moral value to what foods we eat. And underneath this moral value of "this is better, this is worse" is the belief that having our bodies look a particular way is more virtuous than having our bodies look another way. What I've seen here on the forums, over and over and over again, is the fear that folks (again, especially women) have, of just plain old EATING. Though there are differing nutritional viewpoints out there, one of the big big things about Whole30 is that we EAT. We EAT at least three FULL meals per day. We do not go hungry. We eat things that the nutrition and diet industries tell us will give us bodies that our society believes are actually morally bad. We ignore things that the nutrition and diet industries tell us will give us bodies that our society believes are morally good. And, by god, we totally freaking EAT. When I'm full-on Whole30ing, I sit back in amazement at the mountains of food I consume in a day. And I'm teeeeeeeny. Not quite as teeny as my actual avatar pic, but not a whole lot bigger. And one of the things women especially are just Not Supposed To Do is EAT. Nor are we supposed to want to eat, enjoy eating, love food, or desperately need nutrition. Don't discount the very real possibility that you, like me, and like many of us who embark on a Whole30, may be actually nutritionally very close to starving. This does not mean we are truly starving, and I don't mean to put us into that life-threatening camp even by comparison. THAT would certainly be immoral. But I do mean to say that we really really reeeeeally need to eat. We need to eat good food. Lots of it. And Whole30 gives us a way to do that. So my suggestion, if you can handle it without analyzing it too much : eat. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Physibeth Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Amy if I could love that post instead of just like it I totally would! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyS Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 blush, happysniffle, shufflethefeet (thank you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beets Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Yes! Boo yah! Great post, Amy. On phone so I can't "like," but you said it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtota Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Loving all of this and starting feel like it is possible . Perhaps a thread, maybe even this one, for a full 30 days of "trust in the program" support. It would be nice to have someone(s) around who gets this issue and can help keep the second guessing in check. Revived - I feel like I am reading posts that could have easily been mine. I think, with the support here, maybe we can tackle this issue once and for all. I shall have to meditate on this while I'm at boxing tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirsteen Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I guess i just want to know how others have so much peace about this lifestyle or a paleo lifestyle when there's so much conflicting information. I just want to feel at peace with whatever I'm doing and not be constantly wondering if I should do something different. Revived, I can so feel for you. I'd had a lot of health issues including cancer and, like you, was desperate to find the absolute best possible way of eating. I gravitated to being a vegan, read more and became a raw food vegan, did the whole juice fast thing and the Wigmore 21 day detox, grew and consumed loads of wheatgrass juice. I never really felt better, nothing was sustainable and the more I read, the more confused I became as even the 'gurus' of the raw food world were saying totally contradictory things. Since I wasn't actually getting any better, in fact in some ways worse, every raw foodist i knew was urging me to do a 30 day water fast. Then I read Mark Sissons and Rob Wolf and was intrigued but it wasn't until I read It Starts With Food that it really seemed to click. Coming off anti-cancer diets, I was totally wary of red meat but decided to give it a try anyway. OK it was a leap of faith but 30 days on this seemed an awful lot better proposition than 30 days on nothing but water, and if it didn't help, well it was only a month anyway. I ended up doing 60 days straight and have never veered very far from it since then. Yes, I still have health issues but I am a lot better than I was before W30. I decided stuff what everyone else says, this makes me feel better so I'm sticking with it. Will it be the same for you? I hope so, the science definately seems to back it up but until you try it for yourself, you'll never know how you, personally react on it. I really wish you all the best, good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renee Lee Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Side note: Whole30 isn't really super high protein. It fits in with what Pollan says. "1-2 palms of protein and fill the rest of your plate with veggies" is very much consistent with his recommendations. The W30's (and Paleo's) emphasis has always been on the veggies...people just aren't excited about veggies...so it's really easy to turn it into a carnivorous diet...which is NOT THE POINT. Rule for long term success? Just Eat Real Food. Whole30 is about the "ideal," so learn what the ideal feels like and then figure out how to make it sustainable for you. Hundreds of cultures have hundreds of iterations of an ancestral diet. There is NO SINGLE RIGHT ANSWER besides "eat real food" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
30Canandaigua Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Great thread! I completed a W30 and a W25. Meanwhile a loved coworker has tried 5-10 different diets or plans and is not really getting anywhere but pissed off and really confused. Your post sounds like a conversation we had recently. At one point she was doing calorie counting, half paleo, juicing stuff and I think Weight Watchers, and she is completely addicted to the scale and my fitness pal... Watching her go through this is so stressful, I can't even imagine being in her shoes. All I have and can do is lend my support and love. Things I have shared with her: ~Food is fuel. It is not your midnight companion, or your tissue. It is fuel for your body. The only reason to eat anything, is to fuel your body. ~You must eat. Food is fuel, with out fuel your body is not happy. 3 grapes does not constitute a meal. Nor does the cracker in your glove box. ~Listen to your body. How do you feel after eating a good breakfast? How about after no breakfast? Are you hungry or bored? Does meat, veggies, fat satiate you? Are you completely starving after just veggies, or just meat? ~Make up your mind. Choose a path ONE PATH, and stick with it. Juggling 5 different eating plans is as futile as putting pantyhose on in humid 95 degree weather fresh out of the shower. ~It took time to put on, it will take time to come off. ~The only RIGHT way, is the way you are able to sustain, feel good and work towards a healthy lifestyle. I have lost many pounds, and have maintained it. Tom mentioned somewhere that eating this way long term, with a few off road occasions continued with a slow weight drop for him, until his body weight evened out. I have trusted that statement, and I can tell you that I am not 100% W30 all of the time. I make effort each and every day to eat 3 meals, and stick to the template. Do I off road, yes; sometimes too much. But I recognize it and get back on track. I have continued to see a slow drop in weight, but that is not what this was all about for me. It was about finding a way of eating that is sustainable, and I know in my guts this is the healthiest option for me. So- Long story short... This girl trusted in the template. Ate the template. Felt better. Lost weight. Finds it to be sustainable long term with a few off roading adventures. Continues to eat W30. Continues to feel better. I wish you all the best if finding your own unique answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revived Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 this is all really helpful. thanks everyone. I'm on day 5 and i still feel pretty average. not terrible. not amazing. I think I'm having trouble making the connection between if i feel good on the program that means its good for me. its just so much meat!! and i feel like everywhere else i turn on the interwebs "meat is bad" is the theme. Its so hard not to second guess! Like i said, I'm suspending everything i think i know for these 30 days and just seeing what happens. Maybe once I am feeling good, it will be easier to trust that it's also good for me. Im encouraged by what i read here though. if so many others have tried the other things ive tried and struggled and then tried this and been successful, there must be something to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beets Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Most ppl seem to feel terrible at Day 5 so feeling "average" is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cayenne Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Great thread. I am among the many who wavered back and forth between morally wanting Vegan and having some binge issues while on it. I tried veganism and morally,it really resonated with me. But I craved carbs all the time-hot flashes at night, mood swings during the day. So W30 it was as a last ditch effort to reduce joint inflammation and drop weight, with all the other health things as a secondary gain. Day 54 here and am KICKING myself for not doing it earlier. If I did this years ago, when I first heard of paleo, I would be so much better. I never thought, nor could anyone convince me, that I could do long distance triathlon training with next to no complex carbs. I was injured a couple months ago so I altered everything to get joint healthy so I can run again long distance. Mood stable, no hot flashes, cravings gone(yes,I do want chocolate but not kill for it) and I can cycle 60+ mile on a medium sweet potato and feel good. Before, blood sugar up and down, bloating etc on the bike. Yes, I wish veganism gave me all this cause I love animals, and the planet etc. This works for me and I will continue with this way of eating for the forseeable future. If only I knew then what I know now........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFChris Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Terrific thread. I'm on day 4 of my first Whole30. Revived, just keep on keeping on. You might want to check out the Whole30 June group thread http://forum.whole9life.com/topic/10639-whole30-june-group/, and/or sign up for the daily emails for added inspiration. Allow yourself to just observe and notice: try to withhold judgment for 30 days. Treat this like a 30 day experiment. From all I've read, many people don't start feeling better until week 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katrina Lee Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I am brand new to this forum and only on day one, though have limited my grains/sugars/processed foods for years. Honestly though I think Michael Pollan would adhere to this plan... Going by all of his books..he really advocates for whole foods, lots of vegetables, lots of fresh fruits, organic and pastured proteins. I agree it can be confusing but overall, I think it falls very well with his philosophy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susan W Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 I am brand new to this forum and only on day one, though have limited my grains/sugars/processed foods for years. Honestly though I think Michael Pollan would adhere to this plan... Going by all of his books..he really advocates for whole foods, lots of vegetables, lots of fresh fruits, organic and pastured proteins. I agree it can be confusing but overall, I think it falls very well with his philosophy! I am on tapatalk so can't "like/love" what you said but I so do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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