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My vegan friend just made me cry


rachdevsam

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She's hosting a get together today and is making chili for everyone so I told her I'd bring chili for myself because hers will have beans and soy in it. She knows I'm doing a Whole 30, it's my second one and the first one I didn't tell her till after I did it because I knew she was going to be judgmental about it. But this time I didn't feel like putting the effort into making up reasons why I wasn't eating certain things or drinking alcohol so I'm just being upfront. She won't stop calling it my "diet," calling it Atkins, and ranting that whole grains are healthy. I told her I don't want to argue because I'm not trying to push my food choices on her or anyone else, and she just wouldn't back down. I'm so frustrated because I respect her choices, I am making this chili I am bringing without meat out of respect for her and her house. She is just so rude and I wish I hadn't mentioned it at all. She's one of my closest friends but is just so judgmental when it comes to food. 

 

I don't really know why I let it get to me, or why I'm crying now. It's only day 3 and I don't want to give up or anything but it does make me just want to stay in my apartment for the next 27 days so I don't have to justify myself to other people.

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I mean, I know she's your friend and all, but I can't help but choke on the irony of a vegan decrying someone else's diet as unhealthy.

It sounds like the respect in your friendship only flows one way. Do you guys have friction in any areas beside food?

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I'm sorry your friend is being a butthead.  My daughter (22 yrs old, recently moved home from college) is vegan, and we have gotten into some fairly heated debates.  I get out my iPhone and pull up articles that explain why eggs are okay, or why smoothies are not okay.  She recites excerpts from her vegan books touting the benefits of large quantities of fruit and grains ("carb it up!"), and poo-pooing any animal based foods.  And aside from the health aspect of it, she throws in how animal-based foods are bad for the planet, and I argue back that soy has a terrible impact on our environment.   Haha!  You can see how it goes.  And before I started W30, these debates were often fueled by a couple glasses of wine! 

 

I think vegans put up with a lot of people picking on them for their dietary choices (much as paleo folks do).  So maybe it just becomes sort of a knee-jerk response when anyone even remotely seems to be making a statement against their choice.  I hope you guys can make amends today for your heated conversation this morning. 

 

My daughter and I have sort of learned to just live and let live with each other (most of the time), and sometimes even try to work out meals that are both Paleo and vegan-friendly.  She got me a Mediterranean-Paleo cookbook for Christmas, which has a few recipes we can enjoy together :)

 

Good luck today. 

Ann

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Kirkor - this is really the only fight we've ever had! The closest thing before this was when we went to New York City together and that was about food too...she wanted to eat at only vegan places and I was mad at all the good food I was missing. I hope this is the end of it, that we can both live with each other's food choices, but I know I'll probably get some snide judgmental comments from her today. Our conversation did end with her apologizing, so we'll see. 

 

Ann - I think you're right about vegans having a knee-jerk reaction against perceived attacks on the way they eat. Much like you and your daughter, I can see us constantly going back and forth about this. We are both lawyers after all! But I'm glad you two are learning to live and let live for the most part, it's something to aspire to!

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I think in any relationship the most important thing is respect, support and compassion.  If I were in your shoes, I would ask her to support your decisions without being combative about it.  Since you were supporting her by bringing a vegan dish, then she should do the same for you.  The comment about how you both were never able to visit any restaurants that you like in New York shows that she is not willing to compromise or show you the respect you deserve.  It's great that your friend is so passionate about her beliefs and has a strong enough character to voice her opinions about it.  This is a quality you could learn from her.  I would suggest letting her know that she needs to support you as well, even if she does not agree with your choices.  It's a matter of respect.  If she can't do it, then she may not be as good of a friend as you believe.

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She's hosting a get together today and is making chili for everyone so I told her I'd bring chili for myself because hers will have beans and soy in it. 

 

Rachdevsam....how about for today, you let your buddy shine at her party.     I'm not sure if she's hosting a carry-in or providing all of the dishes.   If this is a carry-in, when in Rome bring a Roman dish she'll like.

 

Next time, when you host the party...make your chili and some dishes your buddy can enjoy.   Kisses and hugs all around.   

 

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Wow, that's terribly rude! She's basically doing the equivalent of you throwing a dinner for her and making sure zero dishes are vegan (cooking fries in bacon fat, bacon in green beans, cheesy stuff, meat main course, etc.)! I get that she's passionate about her food choices but she has no right to force that on anyone else, let alone to be rude if you even offer to bring a version that you CAN eat (if I were doing it, I'd have meat in my chili but you even took that out!).

 

Plus vegan is gaining ground at mainstream restaurants so why wouldn't she at least allow you to go to restaurants that you can both eat at in NYC? There are TONS, trust me. I'm just thinking back to the amazing pad thai I had there, or the chili restaurant...

 

My sister is a pescatarian but is always sure to have food to feed everyone at her house if she's hosting. Most of her friends are also vegan/vegitarian/whatever but even when my meat-eating hubby and I come over (I have to be gluten free) she's careful to have stuff for all of us. Maybe not meat, but enough other stuff to last and then she doesn't mind if we order meat at restaurants or for takeout (she lives in a large college town with the kind of restaurants for takeout that I absolutely drool for - I can eat at them!). Heck, we laugh that my hubby and I eat more like her than we do my parents with their terrible packaged food diets - but look! That Pinterest recipe for a cake mix is so yummy when you have it with the Pinterest mixed drink after dinner! *sigh* That is how to not be a jerk as a vegan/whatever. I don't judge when people bring gluten to my house so they can eat it...I just don't eat it!

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Yikes! People often define themselves based on their choices in life and may feel threatened by any sort of differing opinion, whether or not it is justified or called for.

Depending on how your get together went today, you might want to ask her out for coffee in a couple of days and have a discussion about agreeing to put aside your food beliefs?

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It went alright yesterday. Before her get together, she did apologize and said her parents are always pushing the Atkins Diet on her and so it's a sore spot for her. I was increasingly annoyed at the "Atkins" reference but just let it go. I think she gets touchy about people who eat a lot of meat or say there are benefits to eating meat. Anyway, at the get together itself, there was some palpable tension between us at the beginning, but she didn't bring it up again. The other vegan who was there did, so it was obvious they had talked about it, but the other vegan was just more curious than judgmental. 

 

I'm sorry if I made it sound like a dinner party, it was actually a board game get together, but the type of board games we play take hours to finish so she had said she would make chili for everyone at some point, and everyone else could bring other food. I only mentioned the Whole 30 at all to her to explain why I wouldn't be eating her chili. No one cared or noticed when I ate different chili (it really looked like everything else anyway), or commented on the fact I wasn't drinking. 

 

All in all not a bad time, but I still don't feel like being social much more than that!

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I find it easiest to keep my "diet" to myself (by diet, I just mean the food choices I make), as I wish others would keep their choices to themselves.  

 

If she's throwing a party, she should make food that most people would eat, not just to suit her own special dietary needs.  These days, so many people have food allergies, gluten sensitivities, etc.  It would have been simply a kind thing for her to have been ok with you bringing your own food.

 

But vegans seem to be a special breed.  I read a Facebook thing that said, "How do you know if someone's a vegan?  They TELL you!!!".

 

I used to be in an online diet support group, back when we counted calories and fat grams.  One person had a lot of success becoming a raw food vegan, and that was her "mighty stick".  Got to the point that I de-joined the group.  Later, I read that she posted about a lot of severe aches and pains and actually admitting to craving an egg.  She must have posted 10 times about craving an egg.  I was like, eat an egg, for *&^%'s sake.

 

I went to a dinner party last night, and no one even noticed that when I "shared" a piece of cake with my friend, I never took a bite.  I was so worried going in, but it turns out, people were more focused on what they were eating & drinking, that my "I'm driving, no Uber tonight so can't drink" excuse was completely accepted.

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It went alright yesterday. Before her get together, she did apologize and said her parents are always pushing the Atkins Diet on her and so it's a sore spot for her. I was increasingly annoyed at the "Atkins" reference but just let it go. I think she gets touchy about people who eat a lot of meat or say there are benefits to eating meat. Anyway, at the get together itself, there was some palpable tension between us at the beginning, but she didn't bring it up again. The other vegan who was there did, so it was obvious they had talked about it, but the other vegan was just more curious than judgmental. 

 

I'm sorry if I made it sound like a dinner party, it was actually a board game get together, but the type of board games we play take hours to finish so she had said she would make chili for everyone at some point, and everyone else could bring other food. I only mentioned the Whole 30 at all to her to explain why I wouldn't be eating her chili. No one cared or noticed when I ate different chili (it really looked like everything else anyway), or commented on the fact I wasn't drinking. 

 

All in all not a bad time, but I still don't feel like being social much more than that!

I'm so glad you had a good time.   There's no bowl of beans that's worth breaking up a friendship or giving up your birthright for.  You handled it very well.   I've thought about your NYC trip.  If you travel together in the future and there's little compromise for the restaurants you want to go to...I've been thinking about a solution.   Could you zone out an area with both vegan and your faves?    I would let her eat at the vegan and you try yours.  I've traveled and eaten alone many, many times.   Then the two of you can hook back up at set time and see the sights.   

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I'm so glad you had a good time.   There's no bowl of beans that's worth breaking up a friendship or giving up your birthright for.  You handled it very well.   I've thought about your NYC trip.  If you travel together in the future and there's little compromise for the restaurants you want to go to...I've been thinking about a solution.   Could you zone out an area with both vegan and your faves?    I would let her eat at the vegan and you try yours.  I've traveled and eaten alone many, many times.   Then the two of you can hook back up at set time and see the sights.   

 

I actually don't mind eating vegan food (well, I didn't before, now most of it will be off limits to me!) and am usually happy to go along to vegan restaurants with her. I think travelling added extra tension because we were eating EVERY meal together and there were several places I wanted to try that would just not be vegan friendly at all. Like I wanted to try a slice of NYC pizza, that the city is known for, but instead we had to track down a vegan pizza place that didn't have New York slices. I think in the future it would be wise to do what you say, and find a place that has both. I should have realized this was a problem for the New York trip and planned ahead! We are talking about taking another trip next year and I will definitely plan ahead this time, and I also think we will have other people with us so dividing up to go to different places would be easy.

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