jcarbon2

PreWo and Fat?? Anybody see the study?

17 posts in this topic

Its been a while since I have been in here but I wanted to get some feedback on Fat and PreWo. I have been going the one hard boiled egg and some cashews (18g) but it has always made me feel a bit strange. So I started to do some research and found a web article on fat and pre-workout. 

 

For years the golden standard for many bodybuilders has been a 2 to 1 ratio of carbs to protein for their pre and post workout meals. Now they are finding out that Carbs PreWO might cause too much of an insulin spike and not having carbs Pre-Wo is better for cutting fat. 

 

So I started wondering why we keep eating fat before working out. I found this article.

 

http://www.flexonline.com/nutrition/eating-right/diet-tips/how-much-fat-should-you-consume-pre-workout

 

So anything above 10g (study) will inhibit growth hormone, slow down the digestion of protein (which you want to rapidly reach your muscles) and it can blunt blood flow to muscles. 

 

So, based on these studies, its best not to consume any fat pre-wo or less than 10grams.

 

Any feedback by the experts on why I should have those cashews (they put me over the 10g limit)  If I have two boiled eggs I get 11g of fat. So thats a not so great idea. 

 

John

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Unless you are a scientist familiar with the area of study, you are likely to be misled by reading random studies. If you actually read all the studies in an area, you will find that most of them sound well designed and convincing, but they contradict each other. 

 

Personal note: I finished all the research and statistics courses required for a PhD in Family Relations and have published a variety of research articles in professional journals. However, I know I am incompetent to adequately evaluate food studies. After poking and prodding the Hartwigs 6 years ago, I decided to let them be my guide to food. Dallas Hartwig happens to be an uber-Geek who reads scientific studies like most people read People magazine. But the Hartwigs don't rely only on themselves. They run their explanations and recommendations by serious scientists like Harvard professors. I know because when I was editing their first book, they completely rewrote some material because one of their consultants told them they had over-simplified some stuff in his scientific review. 

 

The Hartwigs recommend protein and fat pre-workout. I don't remember if It Starts With Food explains why, but you might want to look if you are interested. 

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Now they are finding out that Carbs PreWO might cause too much of an insulin spike and not having carbs Pre-Wo is better for cutting fat. 

 

So I started wondering why we keep eating fat before working out. 

 

These two statements contradict each other. Why would studies telling you not to eat carbs pre-workout make you wonder why we eat fat pre-workout? One reason is that it is a source of nourishment that is not carbs. Does that make sense?

 

Ultimately it is possible to find recommendations for every possible combination of macronutrients as "pre-workout" fuel. it is even possible that all of them are right, assuming you have the right context for the recommendation.

 

Around here, we go with the whole30 recommendations. If you try them, but don't feel they are working for you, you are welcome to try something else. 

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On the subject of pre-work out...any idea's besides a HB egg, what about a TB of hemp hearts? I work out right away in the AM then PWO meal tends to be @ 9 or 10, I understand my next meal "breakfast" should be 60-90 minutes after the Post WO meal?

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After reading some of the replies I went back to my copy of ISWF and on page 242 it says the "pre-workout ¨snack¨is not fuel for the workout!¨  they go on to say it simply sends a signal to prepare the body for the activity that is coming.Also they mention stay away from carbs. 

 

Just wanted to mention that on the meal template it says that fat is optional. 

 

I think they are getting this from Robb Wolf but I still can't find the ¨why¨of ingesting fat other than to add to your fat per day total. At least not on ISWF.

 

Seems to me that it has no real good reason to be there and its probably best just to have protein. The problem is finding a protein that does not have more than 5-10 grams of fat with the half portion. 

 

Boneless-skinless chicken breast would be a good alternative at about 3g of fat per 3 oz portion.

 

Celestial: other than dairy products the fastest acting protein source is egg. You want fast acting protein for your prewo. 

 

In the end the Hartwigs have it right with the prewo with OPTIONAL fat that to me is best NO fat. Post wo is protein and carbs that seems to be universal.

 

IF somebody ever finds out why the fat let me know. 

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Taken directly from my Sports Nutrition course work:

Fat loading is recommended to promote fat oxidation, slow the rate of carbohydrate utilization, and enhance endurance performance. Fat loading increases the contribution of fat oxidation to total energy expenditure and spares muscle glycogen during submaximal exercise.

In short if you eat fat you burn fat.

 

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Taken directly from my Sports Nutrition course work:

Fat loading is recommended to promote fat oxidation, slow the rate of carbohydrate utilization, and enhance endurance performance. Fat loading increases the contribution of fat oxidation to total energy expenditure and spares muscle glycogen during submaximal exercise.

In short if you eat fat you burn fat.

Guess I should start adding some mayo to my pre-WO hb egg!

pebblez likes this

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Guess I should start adding some mayo to my pre-WO hb egg!

That's a personal judgment call, as egg yolks are a fat on a Whole30.  You might be fine with just the HB egg. If you find your energy isn't sufficient through your workouts, experiment with adding the mayo.

fmr_sailor likes this

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Whoa lets not jump the gun here folks. The original question was about fat in pre-workout. Fat loading is another animal completely. And yes,  fat loading improved fat oxidation, but it does not improve performance.  If you are on a keto diet then your body is forced to burn fat because its the only source of energy since there is very little carbs <30g ingested on keto per day. Whole30 to me is not a keto diet. 

 

Just to make a point. Keep in mind ingested fat takes about 3 hours to be made available for use. Fat does not convert to glucose immediately. So as it said in ISWF , its not for fuel for your  workout. That is unless you eat fat 3 hours prior. 

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No, but the principle is the same. By eating fat you are sending the signal to your body to burn fat. By eating carbs you are signaling to your body to burn carbs. The aim of Whole30 is to become fat adapted. Sending the right signal to your brain pre work out is a part of the process.

This is not just a Whole30 thing. All of the people I know locally in this field are recommending fat for preWO these days - and in particular to those clients looking to drop body fat prior to competing.

MeadowLily and SpinSpin like this

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Whoa 

 

Whoa?

 

You are citing an article on a bodybuilding site that also promotes "white bread" and sorbet" as post-workout fuel. This is not a "study" and it is not credible.

 

For the vast majority of whole30 participants, a bit of protein and fat is recommended for their context. If you don't want to have fat pre-workout, go right ahead with protein alone, or skip the pre-workout snack entirely. As you note, it isn't intended to directly fuel the workout anyway.

ladyshanny likes this

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No, but the principle is the same. By eating fat you are sending the signal to your body to burn fat. By eating carbs you are signaling to your body to burn carbs. The aim of Whole30 is to become fat adapted. Sending the right signal to your brain pre work out is a part of the process.

This is not just a Whole30 thing. All of the people I know locally in this field are recommending fat for preWO these days - and in particular to those clients looking to drop body fat prior to competing.

Dallas said it long ago.  I've followed it.  I've burned the fat and built the muscle and rid myself of T2 Diabetes in the process. 

Thanks a million, Dallas, Melissa and Tom.

fmr_sailor, SpinSpin and jmcbn like this

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I realize this is sort of a closed conversation, but the OP's original link provided citations to a 1993 paper and while at work today I was able to call up the paper. My goal here is to point out the dangers of reading summary articles like from the Flex training website without delving into the original work that prompted the article. 

 

Here is the key sentence from the Flex article: FLEX recommends keeping fat under five grams for your preworkout and postworkout meals, because it can slow down the digestion of protein ...and it can blunt blood flow to muscles. Yet, research shows that a third reason has to do with fat’s ability to blunt growth hormone levels. 

 

Here is a key paragraph from the 1993 paper: "The data suggest that exercise-induced GH release can be profoundly modulated by a single meal taken before exercise. In our study, a high-fat drink attenuated postexercise peak GH levels and AUC by about 50%. It is worth noting that a typical fast-food meal would likely contain similar calories as fat as our high-fat protocol [e.g. a Big Mac hamburger and regular french fries contains 446 kcal as fat alone (15)]."  I'll also note that the high fat meal consumed by the athletes was 115 mL of high fat-double cream, a highly saturated 48% butterfat product, totaling just over 500 calories:blink:  

 

Highlights are my own.  So you see, the author of the Flex article apparently didn't read the original article, extrapolated somehow or another a recommendation of 5g of fat, then referenced a 1993 paper that seemed to support her argument. Finally, the Flex training site is targeting the body building community who might be more concerned about GH levels and anabolic metabolism, so consider as well the target audience. 

 

Unless you are eating enough cashews and eggs to hit those numbers, I don't think you have anything to worry about! Like Melissa says: experiment, and if those foods work for you, then enjoy your eggs and cashews. 

 

Sorry but as a scientist, I hate seeing research twisted and misconstrued to the masses like this. 

That's all, I'm done :) 

Loulabelle, ladyshanny and GFChris like this

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