Day 16 So very tired

[praxisproject]

Nuts can be a bit of an energy killer for some people too, so you may see some improvements after cutting them out.

 

You can add fats into potato mash too (either sweet or white potato). I really love duck fat with potato

 

If you're not taking a magnesium supplement, some people find this helps with energy too.

[sleepingbeautycan]

Well it is day 31, I am still terribly tired. I was able to get groceries done yesterday but had to have a nap after.

 

Good things from Whole30:

• lost 10 lbs
• ankles and knees no longer hurt on the stairs (could be related to the 10 lbs)
• don't feel like I am wanting any of the missing foods except sweetener and coffee-mate in my coffee

Bad things from the Whole30

• Exhausted (sleeping a full night and then having at least one 3 hour nap)
• The amount of cooking and shopping is a heavy burden when I am already this tired
• The IBS that I haven't had in over two years has come back. It started around day 11-12 and I thought it would just be a phase but after 20 days I fear that it is back. I thought it might have been the nuts but I am off those and still having problems. Maybe the IBS and the exhaustion are linked.
• No change in my back pain which started this whole journey

My plan for moving forward

• I am going to take sunshine sauce (with nut butter) out of my diet for a week to see if that helps with the exhaustion and/or IBS (as praxisproject suggested). I think I will try a stir fry sauce that has a bit of sweet in it. Maybe honey. My eyes might get rash-ey but I think it may show whether it is the nut butter causing the problems.
• If the energy hasn't changed in a few days then I am going to have to try something else. Another type of diet??
• I am planning on picking up some unpasteurized sauerkraut to help with the IBS. Or I will have to make it and I am not sure that I can stand any more time in the blasted kitchen.

Thank you for all you suggestions and help. I am still trying and still going to see if I can make this better. I read the six reasons why it didn't work and found comfort that I wasn't the only one who wasn't helped. Here is what I think of the 6 reasons from my perspective:

1. You Didn’t Do It Right - Nope this is not the problem. I am a bit militant about following rules.

2. Thirty Days Wasn’t Long Enough - Maybe?? If the sunshine sauce removal helps with exhaustion maybe the extra days will prove the difference.

3. You Aren’t Paying Attention To The Right Stuff - Maybe. I never cared whether I lost weight and I did lose 10 lbs --maybe. I weighed myself on January first before I started a 7 day juice fast. After the juice fast I started whole30 and when I weighed myself after the whole30 I was 10 lbs down. But I want to be healthy and I feel like I have gone backwards on that front.

4. You’re Looking For a Nutrition Solution To a Lifestyle Problem - Probably not, Eat well, sleep well, low stress, good self-esteem

5. Your Expectations Are Simply Too High -Nope, I hope not. I want to feel better. I don't blame the diet that I am exhausted (I know that there is something wrong with my body -- I just hope I find it). It is just one of the things I will try to feel better before I give up.

6. Lifestyle Interventions Can’t Fix Everything -BINGO!! I can't afford a naturopath because of our finances but when I can I think it might help.

    

[praxisproject]

If you already know honey can cause some problems there are some nut and seed free stir fry recipes too, this one has honey as an optional ingredient, but has some orange juice for a bit of sweetness if you want to skip the honey (honey also contains Fructose, so is a FODMAP).

http://meljoulwan.com/2009/10/29/best-stir-fry-sauce-ever%e2%84%a2-for-real/

 

Whole30 isn't the only thing that can help you feel better, some people need alterations to FODMAPs (one of the most confusing), allergen foods (tree nuts, latex family, strong enzymes like pineapple & kiwi fruit), histamines, nightshades, nuts, seeds, eggs or even the AIP. IBS can have many components and Whole30 may not cover them all for you.

 

I think 6 is where you're at, but it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong or you haven't tried hard enough and you may not need a naturopath to see improvements (especially since you were IBS free for two years! yay you!).

 

I think there are two things you may want to look into more deeply from a health perspective, some minor blood tests might more helpful than a naturopath, or even some comparisons (costing only your own time) of what you were eating vs what you have been eating on Whole30 (especially if going back to your old diet gets rid of your IBS).

 

1) IBS which was gone but has come back could be getting triggered by a common and compliant food.

If that's the case, you really want to know what it is, so you can avoid feeling sick. For a lot of people, they are eating new things on Whole30 (as in, not normally stuff they're eating every day) or the same things but in much higher volumes. I almost never eat grapes when I'm not on Whole30, I don't know why, I don't dislike them, possibly I just see them more as I shop a little differently (this means I don't Reintro them, as they're something I only eat on W30, which is a bit backwards). FODMAPs are known IBS triggers and they can be sneaky in that some people get delayed reactions from them but also confusing (I find them really confusing!) as they're kind of all over the place. Things don't "look" FODMAP-ish, they're not all the same family or even the same colour and some of them feel like they are in everything (garlic, onion) so they can be very awkward to learn how to eliminate. FODMAPs are only one of many things related to IBS. Carrageenan (not W30 compliant) gives me fast-hitting IBS-like symptoms, a type of reaction which I have to absolutely nothing else, it's very specific. Any other kind of seaweed is fine, just not this one, but I'd never have realised until I had it in a boxed almond milk (with all other ingredients being things I ate all the time) and I thought I had swallowed some hula hoops.
 

2) Exhaustion.

Some tiredness is normal if you're not eating enough and it's possible nuts could be taking some time to clear from your system, but this seems more pervasive and very wearing for you and your energy, which sounds to me like something more serious. It might go away when you're not on Whole30, but it might be something you need to look into. Exhaustion and fatigue can come from minor deficiencies, low Vitamin D3, low iron (anemia - some doctors can diagnose this from looking at your eye, without a blood test), imbalance in Omega 3/6 ratio (very common and can be made worse by nuts and seeds), imbalance of copper/zinc, lack of B12 (liver has B12 and many other nutrients like zinc) are just a few of the things that can make you super tired. Some processed foods can be fortified with missing things, so they can actually make deficiencies go away (which is why they are mandated by law in many countries for staple items like bread and tortillas, to reduce the number of deficiencies). While you can get blood tests for evidence, you can also eat foods higher in certain things and see if it's any help (it's not perfect but it's much cheaper). Reintroductions of your old foods may also make noticeable improvements. If they do, you should examine what's in them. I have really serious deficiencies and for me, some things are like turning a light switch on and off (zinc, B12), I don't always need a blood test, I can feel the difference. An unusual addition I have added is Vitamin K2 (it's in eggs and dairy, but I don't eat dairy much and not enough eggs to for them to be a big source), but I'm trying to heal 35 years of eating gluten (which my body does not like at all), I suspect at some point I won't need it anymore. Some drug stores or doctors may also have small free samples of vitamin or mineral supplements (it's worth asking), if you want to road test some before spending money on them.

[sleepingbeautycan]

Wow, that was a lot of great information, praxisproject. I made a excel spreadsheet of the fodmap foods before whole30 and after.

 

The FODMAP avoid foods I increased eating during whole30

• Garlic
• beetroot
• cauliflower
• celery
• mushrooms
• raisins (for the sweets I crave pre-period)
• cashews

From the list above, I think cashews are a big problem for me. I will cut it out.  I have ordered Asafoetida to replace garlic. Beetroot, celery and cauliflower are easily replaced with fodmap approved veggies. Mushrooms will be mourned. I will replace raisins with sugar treats on that day when I am premenstrual (no sweetness will endanger those I love ... =) ). I still need to find a stir fry sauce that I like and is yummy. I will try the one you mentioned with out the honey.

 

Sugar has always been something I know I should avoid but has been creeping into my diet in 2015. I think I will continue staying away from sugar except for that premenstrual day when I crave it really bad. I think I will add in small amounts of sweetener (truvia and/or splenda), before the whole30 I used to eat a lot of splenda and aspertame but I am not going back to my diet coke habit. I have to figure out how bad coffee-mate is for coffee. I used to have a tablespoon in my coffee every morning.

 

As for vitamin deficiency, oh yes indeed-y. I inject vitamin b12 once a month, I take 10,000 IU vitamin d and still never get into the healthy zone (but it does get rid of the symptoms), I think my iron is okay, after I do the above food changes I will test with some palafer to see if it helps. I guess after that I will supplement with some omega3 capsules (unless that is bad??). And after that I will try zinc. I want to try things one at a time so I know what symptoms goes with which deficiency.

 

Like I said I really want to be well (or at least better). I will try anything to get there. I have been gluten and soy free for 10 years. I did a number of years with sugar free and really didn't notice a increase in symptoms when I first added it back in. But near the end of 2015 I was getting eye rashes, skin rashes and mouth sores, which is how I react to sugar. So I will be careful, moving forward. The big things that were removed between pre-whole30 and whole30 is my morning coffee made with coffee-mate and splenda, my addiction to potato chips, diet coke, and sandwiches for lunches.

[praxisproject]

Cashews can be an irritant beyond FODMAPs too, they contain something no other nut contains.

 

Asafoetida is excellent, but be aware of a couple of things: it *can* be made with gluten, but not have gluten on the listed ingredients, as it's a resin and can be rolled by people with flour on their hands (but it's not an ingredient). It's also to be avoided when pregnant, so don't feed it to anyone who shouldn't have it.

 

You also try extra starch instead of sweets on those craving days, sometimes it's really a need for extra energy. Sometimes I eat two dinners around that time

 

Be careful with Splenda, I have found it very detrimental to my health and this is bad as I used to consume loads of it  it will actually fatten pigs, so I have no idea what it's ever been recommended as an artificial sweetener.

 

When you're post-Whole30, you can make a better creamer than coffeemate, but which wouldn't be Whole30 compliant (there's lots of recipes, but beware that dates are a FODMAP too).

 

Have you ever been tested for MTHFR? B12 is one of the indicators (not the only one). I take Omega 3, even though I minimize my Omega 6 and try to maximize my Omega 3 in foods.

[sleepingbeautycan]

I am planning to use sunflower seed butter in the place of the cashew butter. The asofoetida I bought was gluten free. Canada has regulations about allergens that may have been in contact with the food. I will remember the pregnancy contraindication.

I've tried replacing sweets with everything and it doesn't work so well. So I just eat whatever sugar food I want on that day and move on.

What do you recommend for a sweetener/sugar?

I guess if I ever get my energy back, I will add the coffee-mate back in to see if there are any side-effects.

Never been tested for MTHFR.

[sleepingbeautycan]

I've done some research on MTHFR and the symptoms sound like me. I've had bipolar disorder (very serious) but it went away when I went off gluten and soy 10 years ago. I've had chronic fatigue in the past but it alleviated I guess about 1-2 years after stopping gluten and soy (I thought that it was all of the bipolar meds finally dropping out of my system). I have IBS and winter blues.

 

We don't have a lot of money right now. My husband is looking for a different job and I haven't been able to work for a long time. Should I get the DNA tested or can I get a blood test to check my homocysteine levels and then try adding methylfolate to supplement?

[Brewer5]

I have a friend who has been super into nutrition for 20+ years.  She and her husband used to own a gym, they both have competed in bodybuilding competitions around the world (And won.  A lot.)  They are ALL about not putting junk in their bodies.  Fueling with food.  She is actually the one who first told me about "Paleo" ~ several years ago.

 

Anyway, she told me of a time she went through long ago, where she was feeling very depressed.  She was actually able to link this depression to the Coffeemate creamer she was using in her coffee.

 

There are SO many better choices out there.  If you feel really drawn to it... stop and think about why.  ...Because it was engineered by jerks who want you to become addicted to it.  That's it!

 

http://www.livestrong.com/article/402395-ingredients-in-coffee-mate/

 

"Coffee-mate is not a significant source of nutrients and the list of ingredients may have you opting for taking your coffee black."

[sleepingbeautycan]

I only like it because it isn't dairy (which makes me sick) and it tastes better than black (or almond milk or rice milk or coconut milk). I don't need it but it makes my life a little happier. I have been off of it for I guess 2 months now and I am more exhausted now than I was before. I was planning to add it back in to see if that affected my health at all. If it didn't then I will continue to use it. I am not a purist, I am looking for things to cut out that make me feel better. I have had years when I didn't have coffee (and thus no coffee mate) due to the suggestion of a naturopath and when I added it back in and never saw an increase of bad symptoms.

 

But I guess every body is different and I am happy your friend was able to find something that caused her health problems.

[SugarcubeOD]

I only like it because it isn't dairy (which makes me sick) and it tastes better than black (or almond milk or rice milk or coconut milk). I don't need it but it makes my life a little happier. I have been off of it for I guess 2 months now and I am more exhausted now than I was before. I was planning to add it back in to see if that affected my health at all. If it didn't then I will continue to use it. I am not a purist, I am looking for things to cut out that make me feel better. I have had years when I didn't have coffee (and thus no coffee mate) due to the suggestion of a naturopath and when I added it back in and never saw an increase of bad symptoms.

 

But I guess every body is different and I am happy your friend was able to find something that caused her health problems.

I would really caution you on adding back something that is basically chemicals.  Some of the chemicals and artificial sweeteners in coffee whitener have been loosely linked to Alzheimers, Parkinsons and other life changing/threatening illnesses.  Maybe it's not true and in 50 years they'll tell us that coffee whitener is okay but it's a pretty risky business!

[sleepingbeautycan]

Thank you for your opinion and honesty.

[praxisproject]

I used to like coffeemate too (not for the taste but the convenience as a shift worker). I now have either coconut milk or coconut cream which I put in a small glass jar (mine comes in a can). I recommend shopping around for the cleanest kind you can find (often in a can), some of them taste far better than others. I find the lower in fat and the more additives, the more awful they taste.

 

If you're still looking for sweeteners I honestly think you may need to review your attachment to coffee, if you really hate it without, do you really like coffee? I used to have mine loaded with dairy (never any sugar) but when I gave up dairy I found my interest in coffee dipped (so really it was mostly a dairy carrier with a hit of caffeine). I also no longer need it as an energy crutch, now that I'm getting the nutrition I need. I now don't have more than 1 cup a day and some days I have none at all.

 

If you do have MTHFR, you probably want to avoid the coffeemate too, as artificial things don't clear out from my system well. If you're having any adrenal issues (being very tired can be one), coffee can also make these a lot worse. If you're unbalanced, coffee will never help restore the balance and it can stop you from ever finding it as it keeps yanking your system around (coffee boosts cortisol).

 

Mostly I have switched to herbal tea (I really don't like black tea) like lemongrass and ginger and the fruity hibiscus teas. If you're new to buying tea, watch out for soy on the labels (especially American tea).

[sleepingbeautycan]

Can you tell me if your health has improved since you found out about mthfr?

[sleepingbeautycan]

The sweeteners weren't for only coffee they were for life. It makes me happy to have the occasional sweet thing.

 

I am on day 35?? and still very tired (exhausted). I am sick of cooking, sick of restricted diets without any benefit. I am sick of extra grocery shopping. I am not happy with any of the effects of the whole30 except for the decrease ankle and knee pain.

 

I cannot figure out for the life of me why I am putting myself through all this if it is making me feel worse. I have been off of the cashews for 4 days, and the energy is still really low. I have been fodmap compliant for 2 days and still no help.

 

I think whole30 is over and I am going to go back to my previous eating habits. Thanks for your help but I don't think the diet and I are compatable.

[praxisproject]

Yes, radically! I had already seen a lot of improvement from doing Whole30 and saw huge improvements in my blood work, but had some blood work which was still off (including high homocysteine) and so I was tested for MTHFR. I have two copies of C677T (homozygous) which means I can lose up to 70% of my cellular function (I had some symptoms which indicated this as well, including skin which didn't heal properly).

 

I take a special form of B12 now which doesn't require any conversion (it bypasses the bit that doesn't work right). Very different energy levels and old damaged skin is now healing. Although B12 is a very common deficiency for MTHFR, so is iron (I sway very easily into deficiency without regular red meat).

 

Post Whole30 I have included dates and a little coconut sugar from time to time, but I have my sugar dragon until control so find I don't want many sweet things beyond a bit of fruit. I used to want them a lot more, but I knew I shouldn't have them then.

 

If you have an untreated medical problem, there's only so much Whole30 is going to be able to do. Meat, vegetables and fruit are what people are supposed to eat, humans are completely compatible with Whole30, but food cannot cure everything (I can't just eat more B12, I can't process it). The high amounts of B12 and Vitamin D that you need suggest to me you have something more serious going on.

[sleepingbeautycan]

Thanks PraxisProject, I ordered the dna test and I'm going to start taking the pre-methylated vitamins and see what happens. I tried really hard to make the whole30 work and I may revisit after the vitamin thing.

 

I am so pleased to find about the MTHFR gene mutant. I have been pouring over the web looking for information. I am so thankful for you asking the question. It may make a huge difference. And your help on this diet has been wonderful.

[praxisproject]

If you don't have it, you may need to get some more general testing. Needing more B12 and high Vitamin D should help guide someone on specific tests.

 

If you do have it, wait until you feel you're not seeing any more improvements before messing around with diet, as it can be hard to see what's making the difference otherwise.

 

Let us know how you go.

[jamcallahan]

I will preface this by saying I'm not a nutritionist..... and I don't know all the ways low potassium or low salt can affect a person.  But I do know I somehow missed that I needed to salt my food more than normal. I rotate with sea salt and iodized table salt now.  I'm on day 16.  Removing processed carbs (that we were eating prior to Whole 30) also removes a lot of salt.

[sleepingbeautycan]

Thanks for your input jam!! It is an interesting idea. However, I am one of those silly people that salt before they taste. =)

 

I appreciate your idea though.

[VMC]

I am on day 16 and other than having less dark circles under my eyes, I do not see any other improvement at all. I wake up with chronic headaches, which is new to me, I am very tired, I used to be very active and I can only manage a gentle walk these days, I feel cracky and have seen any weight loss improvement.  My immune system dropped so much that I was fighting off a cold infection for a few days. What is going wrong? Is this typical at day 16? I am not snacking and am enjoying the food, I am just not seeing any benefits and my breastmilk quantities have dropped quite significantly.

[ShannonM816]

Just now, VMC said:

I am on day 16 and other than having less dark circles under my eyes, I do not see any other improvement at all. I wake up with chronic headaches, which is new to me, I am very tired, I used to be very active and I can only manage a gentle walk these days, I feel cracky and have seen any weight loss improvement.  My immune system dropped so much that I was fighting off a cold infection for a few days. What is going wrong? Is this typical at day 16? I am not snacking and am enjoying the food, I am just not seeing any benefits and my breastmilk quantities have dropped quite significantly.

This isn't typical at day 16.

If you tell us more detail about what you're eating, we can give you better feedback on things you might change to help.

If you're breastfeeding, you should be eating four meals a day (or three meals and two mini-meals, if that works better for you). Drink lots of water, salt your food, and eat at least two portions of fat as described in the meal template at each meal, and feel free to have extra fat throughout the day (sipping on coconut milk, eating olives or avocados throughout the day). Have at least one serving of starchy vegetable each day, and it's fine to have more. In fact, until you start feeling better, you might try having a fist-sized serving of starchy vegetable at each meal for a few days and see if that helps.

You can download the meal template here:  https://whole30.com/pdf-downloads/