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fodmaps versus low histamine


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I am on day 27 of my first whole30 today, so kind of late in the game. And I can't figure out where the best place to ask this would be. But: Could someone help me understand the differences between low-fodmaps and low-histamine diets? And how to know which (or either) it might be advisable to try?

I am still experiencing lots of bloating and some nausea. I am trying to work out what might be the issue(s). My cycle was thrown way off, and my period just started, two weeks late, so could be cycle related. I also am dealing with chronic stress that I am learning manifests itself in stomach issues, so could be stress.

My doctor has in the past diagnosed me with IBS. BUT - I am skeptical of that diagnosis. As much as I like my doctor, she is only focused on the physical, not the whole picture, and, given what I've been learning about my physical response to stress lately, I am inclined to believe that my various digestive issues that led her to give me that diagnosis were more stress related.

At any rate, I would like to try to understand before this is over (I'm thinking of extending for an extra week or two), if there are additional foods that are irritating to me. So I started looking over the two lists, thinking I might try to follow one for the coming week. But I just feel confused and overwhelmed! For example, for one I should avoid onions, for the other, onions are recommended!

Can anyone help me understand? Thanks!

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Hey there

 

If you give us a run down of what you've eaten say over the past 3-4 days we can take a look and see if anything jumps out that might be causing you issues - then we can maybe point you in the direction that might be best for you....

With an IBS diagnosis I'd be inclined to say low FODMAP but I'd have a better idea if I could see what you've been eating.

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With an IBS diagnosis I'd be inclined to say low FODMAP but I'd have a better idea if I could see what you've been eating.

Right, but like I said, I am not convinced that is an accurate diagnosis based on other factors.

Also - I really am curious to understand what the differences between the two (low-fodmaps and low-histamine) are - when would you be more likely to use one vs the other... what issues do each address, etc.

(if there is a better place for this question, please let me know!)

Past 4 days:

M1: sweet potato hash (w/white potatoes, onions & nettle), 3 fried eggs with dulce, handful of small strawberries and half a banana with coconut milk and flakes

herbal tea

M2: cauliflower rice with onions & left over beef fajita strips w/sautéed onions & peppers, avocado, small handful mixed nuts

M3: pork shoulder with white potatoes and carrots, salad with walnuts and dried currants

M1: hot plate of sweet potatoes, carrots, onions, kale & chopped up sausage (homemade), 2 fried eggs with dulce, handful of small strawberries and half a banana with coconut milk & flakes

herbal tea

M2: cauliflower rice from yesterday's M2, canned salmon & tuna, sautéed white potatoes, onions, spinach & green beans, avocado

M3: chicken breast, white potatoes and carrots in the crock pot + juices, closed handful of macadamia nuts

M1: spinach, onions & left over chicken sautéed in coconut oil + 2 eggs, strawberries, banana, coconut milk & flakes

M2: chili, broccoli & cauliflower, apple slices, avocado

constant comment decaf tea

M3: cauliflower rice w/leeks, carrots & kale + ground pork, roasted sweet potatoes & parsnips & asparagus

M1: scrambled eggs, fried plantains, apples & little sunflower seed butter

M2: leftover chicken breast mixed with yesterday's M3 caul. rice, salad with dried currants, carrots & shredded coconut.

M3(will be): baked pecan crusted haddock, roasted sweet potatoes, carrots and peppers.

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Right, but like I said, I am not convinced that is an accurate diagnosis based on other factors.Also - I really am curious to understand what the differences between the two (low-fodmaps and low-histamine) are - when would you be more likely to use one vs the other... what issues do each address, etc.(if there is a better place for this question, please let me know!).

You may be well off to start doing some research on both of these conditions yourself. This is a great place and many of the advanced members and moderators are very knowledgable but it's both necessary and empowering for people to also investigate on their own.

You know your own symptoms so when investigating the symptoms of 'FODMAP sensitivity', you'll go 'oh, that's totally me, or nope, I don't have that problem'. Same with when you investigate the symptoms of a histamine sensitivity. It's impossible for US to say which one you would be better off with... LIke jmcbn said, in her experience an IBS diagnosis or similar symptoms would be better served by a low FODMAP eating plan but again, her experience may not reflect your experience.

I personally am not an expert in either sensitivity so I will reserve comment on your meals and I'm sure Jmcbn will be back (it's night in Ireland right now), but in the meantime maybe some research will at least give you the similarities and differences between each sensitivity and which one someone with your symptoms might be likelier to experiment with first.

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Ok, thanks - I'm not looking for any kind of diagnosis, just a better understanding. I thought these forums would be a good place to start, given that there are variations on the whole30 based on these and this was the first place I had even rally heard of them. Sorry to have asked a silly question! I'll see what I can find elsewhere.

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Ok, thanks - I'm not looking for any kind of diagnosis, just a better understanding. I thought these forums would be a good place to start, given that there are variations on the whole30 based on these and this was the first place I had even rally heard of them. Sorry to have asked a silly question! I'll see what I can find elsewhere.

It wasn't a silly question and I definitely didn't say that. My suggestion was to empower yourself by doing some research outside of this forum.

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Maybe start with this description of FODMAPs and this one of histamine intolerance. See if any of the symptoms of either of those match what you're experiencing.

 

I know you say you disagree with the IBS diagnosis, and that's fine, but there must be some reason that was the diagnosis, which means you must have been having some symptoms similar to IBS, so you might also want to read a little more about the AIP protocol, which is what would generally be recommended to people with IBS. If you read about it and it doesn't match what you're going through, fine, but there must have been some reason for the diagnosis.

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Right, but like I said, I am not convinced that is an accurate diagnosis based on other factors.

Also - I really am curious to understand what the differences between the two (low-fodmaps and low-histamine) are - when would you be more likely to use one vs the other... what issues do each address, etc.

(if there is a better place for this question, please let me know!)

Past 4 days:

M1: sweet potato hash (w/white potatoes, onions & nettle), 3 fried eggs with dulce, handful of small strawberries and half a banana with coconut milk and flakes

herbal tea

M2: cauliflower rice with onions & left over beef fajita strips w/sautéed onions & peppers, avocado, small handful mixed nuts

M3: pork shoulder with white potatoes and carrots, salad with walnuts and dried currants

M1: hot plate of sweet potatoes, carrots, onions, kale & chopped up sausage (homemade), 2 fried eggs with dulce, handful of small strawberries and half a banana with coconut milk & flakes

herbal tea

M2: cauliflower rice from yesterday's M2, canned salmon & tuna, sautéed white potatoes, onions, spinach & green beans, avocado

M3: chicken breast, white potatoes and carrots in the crock pot + juices, closed handful of macadamia nuts

M1: spinach, onions & left over chicken sautéed in coconut oil + 2 eggs, strawberries, banana, coconut milk & flakes

M2: chili, broccoli & cauliflower, apple slices, avocado

constant comment decaf tea

M3: cauliflower rice w/leeks, carrots & kale + ground pork, roasted sweet potatoes & parsnips & asparagus

M1: scrambled eggs, fried plantains, apples & little sunflower seed butter

M2: leftover chicken breast mixed with yesterday's M3 caul. rice, salad with dried currants, carrots & shredded coconut.

M3(will be): baked pecan crusted haddock, roasted sweet potatoes, carrots and peppers.

I was diagnosed with IBS, too many years ago, before I really knew anything about nutrition.

Since then I've done a lot of research, along side study and self experimentation and have discovered I have a sensitivity to FODMAPs - and with fairly extensive food trials I've a good idea what does & doesn't work for me. Many of the foods on the AIP protocol cause me a huge amount of digestive distress, although it would appear that alongside FODMAPs, eggs are problematic for me also. 

Have you been keeping a record of symptoms alongside the foods you've been eating so you can see any emerging patterns? What symptoms are you currently suffering from which leads you to believe you need to restrict further?

The food you've listed above looks like a high FODMAP shopping list to me and I know I'd be suffering from bloating, cramps & gas if I was eating like that, but only YOU can figure out what will work for YOU.

I've highlighted the high FODMAP food on your list above in red so you can get an idea of the sheer quantity you are eating - and then you can compare that to the level of symptoms you are having, take a look at the low histamine shopping list (some of which work for me & some don't) and then take it from there. Note that some of the foods I've highlighted are medium FODMAPs and are fine to be eaten in moderation when your gut is healed, but if your gut is inflamed then they will cause just as many issues as the higher FODMAP foods.

With all that said if I were you I'd maybe start by removing all of the seed/nut/fruit/coconut products..... These alone can cause gastrointestinal problems.

 

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Thanks for your take. I do realize I've been going heavy on the cauliflower and onions, esp. I have been keeping track of symptoms, too, but find it very hard to really see any clear correlations. But I am keeping with it anyway.

I am confused as to why you highlighted sweet potatoes - they appear as a good food to choose on the fodmaps list. Also, I'm concerned about how I would get enough fat, if I can't eat any nuts, avocado or coconut?? I've tried, but I can't do olives. Olive oil, yes, but I suspect that I'll feel bloated/gassy if that's all my added fat... though I can try.

I will take a look at some of the info mentioned and go from there. Thanks.

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I am confused as to why you highlighted sweet potatoes - they appear as a good food to choose on the fodmaps list. Also, I'm concerned about how I would get enough fat, if I can't eat any nuts, avocado or coconut?? I've tried, but I can't do olives. Olive oil, yes, but I suspect that I'll feel bloated/gassy if that's all my added fat... though I can try.

Sweet potatoes may well be on the Whole30 shopping list but I can tell you with absolute certainty that they cause problems for the vast majority of people who are FODMAP sensitive - once the gut is healed they may be fine in moderation (although personal portion size will be crucial here) - but until the gut is healed I'm fairly certain they won't be. The thing about FODMAPs is that each of us who are sensitive have our own personal limit as to what/how much we can handle, and bear in mind that what we eat on a daily basis is cumulative, so once we surpass that limit everything that we eat will irritate the gut until we give it time to heal...

Fat wise - add compliant bacon, fatty cuts of meat, home made mayo, mayo based dressings, ghee, coconut oil, tallow, schmaltz, lard, duck/goose fat...

Take a look at >this infographic< for a much better, traffic light system, list of FODMAPs if this is the route you think you should take.

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Histamine sensitivity is much less likely to cause bloating, according to my doctor, while FODMAP sensitivity is much more likely to cause it. My doctor suggested I do a very brief trial with antihistamines: if they quickly relieve digestive distress, then histamines are more likely to be the cause.

 

Given the very high levels of FODMAPs in your current food list, you might try eliminating them for a few days (and also consider taking digestive enzymes). To get carbs on a low FODMAP plan, I find pumpkin, carrots, and winter squash work well (in moderation). Parsnips and rutabega also work (but I don't like the taste or the wax all over them)

 

Good luck!

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Sweet potatoes trouble me too. Not even half a cup is ok for me. But I don't miss them, found that Japanese sweet potatoes not only taste better but are personally tolerated!

If also keep an eye on plantains. I'm ok with half a ripe plantain, but not green.

And the herbal tea-- chamomile, fennel, and oolong are supposed to be higher FODMAP. I'm ok with one serve of chamomile but not more. I see tea a few times in your log. Just one more factor to consider. Check your tea components.

This is a case of the dose makes the poison. So I'll emphasize the point above about portion sizes.

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I should have been more specific: winter squash and pumpkin, according to Monash University's FODMAP testing, are ok in servings of 1/4 cup or less. Japanese squashes such as kabocha are fine in 1/2 cup amounts. Parsnips are ok on some low FODMAP lists, not ok on others. 

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...and also consider taking digestive enzymes...

Again, for some personal context, I found that digestive enzymes did nothing for me while the gut was still inflamed. Kombucha however seemed to work wonders...

YMMV

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And the herbal tea-- chamomile, fennel, and oolong are supposed to be higher FODMAP. I'm ok with one serve of chamomile but not more. I see tea a few times in your log. Just one more factor to consider. Check your tea components.

Oolong is actually tea. (It's halfway between green and black in the way it's processed.) Rooibos is often found in caffeine free teas and I believe is technically herbal.

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I've never tried oolong, but I do have pains after s cup of strong black tea. Wonder if it's a related effect?

The Monash site is super informative, I use it a lot. Keep in mind that it's a starting place. I can eat half a cup of butternut, but not kabocha. For me, something is different. Sometimes I wonder if the ripeness of the kabocha is playing a role, but I haven't tested it.

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Tea also contains tannins which many people have reactions too (they're also in red wine). Non-organic teas can also be high in pesticides, if you're sensitive.

 

On the histamine front, a few common items that often indicate histamine issues are: vinegar, kombucha and aged cheese (anything cured, fermented, aged is generally high in histamine). The folks I know with histamine problems tend to get rashes and skin reactions first, rather than bloating, but everyone is different.

 

Is there anything you *know* you have a reaction to?

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