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Starting November 6, 2016


OliviaB

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9 hours ago, LydiaJo said:

This is our day 3. How is everyone doing?

I've had 2 good days and a good start for today. I'm not feeling better but I feel no worse.

I have had cravings and a few times of nearly quitting the program, so it has been every bit as difficult as I suspected (I am one who is sugar addicted). I had some major binge days right before starting, so I was fully expecting withdrawal to be HORRIBLE, as it has been in the past when I have given up sugar. 

However, it has been surprisingly easy on me so far. Today was day 4 for me and I had a headache when I woke up this morning, but I think it was more from not sleeping well than anything else. I have been taking a morning supplement of spirulina (an algae). A friend recommended it to me for energy. It could completely be coincidence, but I'm going to keep taking it just in case it's helping. It does contain a lot of nutrients. I've also been using some essential oils that are supposed to help with food cravings. Can't really say that they are working or not. I've still had cravings, but I have been able to stick with the plan so far. So, that's definitely something for someone like me. 

I tried to be ultra prepared though. I cleaned out my cabinets and fridge/freezer as best as I could, and I shopped for some necessities to help me be successful. I also did a lot of batch cooking, anticipating that I might feel a bit yucky at meal times (headache, low blood sugar, fatigue, etc.). It has been a lifesaver to have meals ready to meals ready to heat up in my fridge. 

I'd love to hear about what's working or not working for you ladies :)

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15 minutes ago, LydiaJo said:

Crystalb,

Make sure you are eating enough fat.

Thanks LydiaJo. I am following the meal template so I should be good :) I have felt way better than I expected so I think it's working for now. I did a lot of prep in anticipation of withdrawal symptoms being worse, but it's been much better than expected. I have had some times of low blood sugar, so I have increased my meal sizes...it's hard to gauge how much to eat so I started tracking in myfitness pal (yes, I know they don't necessarily encourage that, but I wanted to use my macros to help figure out the problem).

Overall I think my body is just going to take a few days to get used to this new diet, coming from a terrible one filled with mostly sugars and simple carbs like bread and pasta. 

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1 hour ago, Crystalb said:

Thanks LydiaJo. I am following the meal template so I should be good :) I have felt way better than I expected so I think it's working for now. I did a lot of prep in anticipation of withdrawal symptoms being worse, but it's been much better than expected. I have had some times of low blood sugar, so I have increased my meal sizes...it's hard to gauge how much to eat so I started tracking in myfitness pal (yes, I know they don't necessarily encourage that, but I wanted to use my macros to help figure out the problem).

Overall I think my body is just going to take a few days to get used to this new diet, coming from a terrible one filled with mostly sugars and simple carbs like bread and pasta. 

The gauge for how much to eat is to make a template meal (linked in my signature below) that lasts you for 4-5 hours. Tracking in Fitness Pal is not going to get you this information.  Make a meal you think is sufficient, ensuring that all components (protein, fat and veggies) are included and then monitor yourself to see how you feel 4, 4.5, 5 hours from mealtime.  If at 3 hours you're starving and need to eat, do so (small portion of protein, fat and ideally veggies) and then increase your meal size at the next meal until you are getting those 4-5 hours.

What we do know is that most people who come from the type of eating that you did tend to drastically under eat as they're removing all those simple carbs and sugars and not replacing them...

How will an app that tells you you've 'eaten enough' help if you're still hungry?  The reason they are vehemently discouraged is because they prevent you from listening to your own body and instead encourage reliance on a made up based on averages by someone that doesn't know you.  We want you to be the expert on your own hunger/full signals.

If it would help, maybe you can post some of your meals here with portion sizes according to the template (palm size, not oz), specific protein, veggies and fat, meal timing, water consumption etc.. along with how you feel after you eat and times you feel low blood sugar and we can help with personalized advice for you specifically :)

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Hi. Thank you for your input. I feel more comfortable doing both these first few days, for several reasons. I'm sorry that's upsetting to you, but I need to do what's best for my body and health. What many people do not understand is that a body that has been abused by food addiction for years is not the most reliable when it comes to full/hungry signals. I hope to change that, but realistically know it won't happen overnight. I already told you I follow the meal template, and that I increased my meals when I noticed I was hungry sooner than I should be. 

I am trying my best. I'm sorry that's not good enough for you. I came here hoping for positive support, not to get reamed. I desperately wish I hadn't even responded. I am doing fine. I feel great. I have no problems and didn't ask for your criticism. 

Criticising people who come here for support is the opposite of helpful. I'm battling emotional cravings due to a lot of stress. Obviously that is not your fault, but Criticising and condemning me as failing just because I'm not doing it the way you think I should doesn't help.

And as for recommendations, Melissa recommended on a blog for someone to "In addition, make sure you are eating enough calories in general" so no its not vehemently discouraged to track calories to make sure you're having enough. 

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Due to my experience here, I likely won't return to the forums, but I hope you ladies have a wonderful experience with your whole30 and that it provides the benefits so many others have seen. 

Blessings,

Crystal

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That was a pretty gentle reaming... with an offer for some personalized advice (from a moderator, who spends her own time doing this to help others).  I'm chiming in simply because I also struggle with binge eating and abusing food.  My very first post on this forum was answered by a moderator saying "it isn't time to do a W30".  I was livid.  Turns out that moderator was wrong.  BUT he was right about having to let go of food weighing/logging.  Here is the thread if you are interested.    

Tracking food is no way to live.  Eat real food.  Eat to satiety.  Eat lots of veggies.  You can't go wrong.  Use that mental energy and free time to do something positive.  I've been there.  Trust me, its better on the other side :) 

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1 hour ago, littleg said:

That was a pretty gentle reaming... with an offer for some personalized advice (from a moderator, who spends her own time doing this to help others).  I'm chiming in simply because I also struggle with binge eating and abusing food.  My very first post on this forum was answered by a moderator saying "it isn't time to do a W30".  I was livid.  Turns out that moderator was wrong.  BUT he was right about having to let go of food weighing/logging.  Here is the thread if you are interested.    

Tracking food is no way to live.  Eat real food.  Eat to satiety.  Eat lots of veggies.  You can't go wrong.  Use that mental energy and free time to do something positive.  I've been there.  Trust me, its better on the other side :) 

Thank you for the kindness in your response, littleg. I guess it was the negativity that was quite discouraging to me. I'm doing the best I can. If you struggled with food addiction/binging, then you know what an accomplishment it is to do this for 4 days! I was feeling very accomplished, feeling great without the expected side effects...no hangover or headaches (which I've experienced before when giving up sugar), so I was feeling very good about things, and was really quite shocked to see such a negative and critical response to me. 

As you admit the mods are wrong sometimes (I'm so glad they were in your case! Congratulations to you. I am truly happy for you in that!), the mod ins wrong in this case as well. I am not obsessively tracking. It's not something I struggle with in the least. It's not a negative or stressful thing for me. After the first day I experienced hunger/low blood sugar, and was browsing the ask Melissa files and saw her tell someone to "make sure you're eating enough calories in general," so I decided to track my calories and found that I had only eaten just over 1,000 that day even though I felt like I was eating huge meals, and was completely following the meal template. Even with the flack I've taken, I am glad that I did that, because it let me know for sure I wasn't eating enough calories. Unlike the mod accused me of, I am not leaving out the simple carbs and not replacing them with anything else. But obviously not enough, and taking her advice to be sure I was eating enough calories overall helped me realize that I wasn't. 

I just had a different idea of what the "support" forums were. I thought it was support, and not a place for every little thing to be picked apart. I can understand if I had said I was having trouble and needed help, but I didn't. It's like some of the mods and others are reading every post just to try and find something to criticize about it. That is not support. There was nothing at all positive in that mod's response to me.  Yes, she offered her "personalized help" which means she invited me to post what I eat so that she can further pick apart all the ways I'm doing it wrong in her opinion. That's not help. It's not offered in a spirit of kindness or being helpful. 

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Little G, I read through some of your journey. First of all, your binging (on paleo food) is a bit different than mine, so I was off base when I indicated we may be coming from a similar place. Also, I saw that you completely broke an actual rule and weighed yourself. A mod responded with great encouragement and support to you, while gently encouraging you to hide the scale. He didn't just give you a lecture about how you're not supposed to weigh yourself (even though that was breaking an actual rule and tracking calories for a day is not). I guess I'm just trying to show you the difference in how the mod responded kindly and encouraging to you while still being positive, instead of giving you a lecture about how much you are doing everything wrong. 

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6 minutes ago, Newbie23 said:

Little G, I read through some of your journey. First of all, your binging (on paleo food) is a bit different than mine, so I was off base when I indicated we may be coming from a similar place. Also, I saw that you completely broke an actual rule and weighed yourself. A mod responded with great encouragement and support to you, while gently encouraging you to hide the scale. He didn't just give you a lecture about how you're not supposed to weigh yourself (even though that was breaking an actual rule and tracking calories for a day is not). I guess I'm just trying to show you the difference in how the mod responded kindly and encouraging to you while still being positive, instead of giving you a lecture about how much you are doing everything wrong. 

Newbie:  That's too bad that you considered Sugarcubes response as a lecture, as I did not.  I usually find their responses helpful as they have been doing this program longer than we have.  We have maybe read the book once, and honestly, that book is too big to remember every single component of the program.  I don't know what type of work you do for your profession, but I have also found that something usually does get lost in electronic conversations, so although you may have interpreted her advice as a personal attack on you, I don't think it was intended as such.  I think we also need to remember that the moderators also have lives to live and them being a "moderator" isn't a full-time job (maybe it is, but I don't think so), so when they are reviewing the forums and leaving feedback they are probably switching gears from their regular day to leave specific advice for a specific problem.  Personally, I need gentle reminders about more things throughout my day, let alone Whole 30 reminders.  The best results come from those that commit 100% to the program, and I'm sure our moderators just want the best results for all who start on this journey.

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Thanks, Jolong, I am completely, 100% committed to the program. I'm trying to figure out where I misspoke to make it seem like that wasn't the case. I took advice from Melissa Hartwig--the creator of the program! So yes, I was shocked to be chastised for it here on the forum. 

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Hi @Newbie23 - just quickly, I'm about to have your profile deleted but I do see that you are still engaging in discussions here. Could you confirm that you do wish to have your ability to post on the forum under your current email address removed?

You are, of course, welcome to stay if you choose to.

 

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6 minutes ago, ladyshanny said:

Hi @Newbie23 - just quickly, I'm about to have your profile deleted but I do see that you are still engaging in discussions here. Could you confirm that you do wish to have your ability to post on the forum under your current email address removed?

You are, of course, welcome to stay if you choose to.

 

Thank you ladyshanny. I thought my posts would be deleted. I didn't realize my account would be deleted while my posts were still here to be picked apart by others :( So, I guess that if you can't delete my posts then I would prefer to be able to be here to defend myself at least. Ideally, I would like for you to delete my profile and posts if that is possible. (the 2 "guest" posts above), as well as the new ones. 

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@Newbie23 - we don't delete posts. It makes the forum difficult to follow and the delete would have to be done manually by a moderator and since all the mods are volunteers, we don't offer that service.  That all said, you might want to take a little step back for a bit and come back and read the responses when you are not in a heightened emotional state. There really is nothing here for you to "defend". No one was attacking you personally and various people have read the post in question and believe that perhaps you are reading emotion into the post that isn't there. We recommend to folks 100% of the time that they take the "don't weigh or measure your food" seriously. It's not actually against the rules, just a strong recommendation. 

 

 

I've included a few examples where we have given everyone the same general guidance that you were given. None of it is rude, mean or meant as an attack. I've included it so that you can maybe read it and understand that the information that you were given was what is given to everyone.

The moderators who volunteer here are passionate about the program and after helping thousands of people through it, we know what you may not yet know and that is that these trackers/apps are designed with useless information as targets and that they don't give you valuable information about yourself and in many cases can be obsessive and cause the person to respect the app more than they are respecting themselves. To be fair to your initial inquiry, the way that you used the tracker is valid. It is one of the only reasons that Melissa says is an acceptable use. To check once and make sure that you are not vastly under-eating. What we encourage though, is that you take that information that you learned alongside what you learned from listening to your body and you move forward with yourself in charge, not an app. I know it can be hard/scary to trust your hunger signals after years of mistreating them but humans are resilient and it does not take long to get back to a position of knowing real hunger vs emotional hunger/cravings.

The template is the minimum that you eat at any time. Then you look at your day, your week, your month, your exercise, your current health and you examine how you feel and make decisions based on that data. 

Finally, please understand that again, we are all volunteers, most of us taking time away from our jobs to come and help people through the process. We wouldn't waste our time if the only goal was to pick on unsuspecting, vulnerable Whole30-ers. None of us are petty or mean spirited so please know that even if you may have read "reaming" in the response, it wasn't posted with that intent.  The written word is difficult to decipher emotion in and if you add to it that some people are not highly emotional people, what you read is sometimes all there is. It's not a chastising, just a discussion. I'm truly sorry you were so upset by the response, I hope you can take it in perspective and understand that we only ever spend our time commenting out of a desire for members to get the best possible results from their efforts.

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All I'm saying is that the critical response to me with nothing positive at all, and that was completely unasked for, was incredibly discouraging to me personally. Yes, people respond in different ways to different things, though in browsing the forum I have found that some others don't appreciate the critical and negative responses from some mods either. I understand offering advice when asked for. I do not understand stalking the threads to look for things to criticize in every post, which it seems a couple of people do, because in looking at their posts, they are ALL completely negative and critical with no positive encouragement at all. 

THANK YOU for affirming that the way I used the tracker was valid! I didn't think I was doing anything wrong (having followed Melissa Hartwig's advice) which is why I was so blindsided by the unexpected negative criticism I received. I should have clarified that I do not track everything I eat on a daily basis, but again I did not realize the extent of the scrutiny of every single post made here. I tracked the first day, and then made adjustments to add more food in and that was that. The words were obviously very chastising, and critical. I waited until today to reread the response, but yes I still find it unnecessarily critical. I do understand the mods are volunteers, but that makes it all the more interesting that instead of answering questions and offering advice to someone who asks for it, they spend time criticizing and picking apart posts from people who are completely compliant in the program. 

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I understand that you won't delete posts, but I just wanted to be done with this negativity and drama right now. But obviously that isn't going to happen and it's not fair for me to have people continuing to criticize and judge me and my program, which is completely compliant and no one even knows much about it except 1 small snippet that I shared. My profile was deleted as I asked and even after that people continued to call me out. 

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12 hours ago, Sj307 said:

Day 5  how you all doing?  I feel great!  No cravings today.  Even met some friends out while they were having drinks, I had water!!!

Good for you. When I quit drinking, I found that people stopped noticing what you were drinking as long as you where emotionally present. You can always flavor your water with a piece of citrus fruit. This is my day 7 and I feel good. My knees are less achy.  No cravings.

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13 hours ago, Sj307 said:

Day 5  how you all doing?  I feel great!  No cravings today.  Even met some friends out while they were having drinks, I had water!!!

Awesome that you're doing great with no cravings.

Yesterday was a rough day and day 7 for me. My husband is away fighting wildfires and has been since 10/28. He was supposed to be home 11/21, which is still a long time, but found out yesterday it will be longer and he won't be home for Thanksgiving :(

I am an emotional eater and I wanted to eat ALL the things yesterday! It was my hardest day, but I stuck to the plan. Only compliant foods and no snacks. 

I even took my own food when wewent to a friend's house for dinner. Nothing was compliant and I did not want to waste the last 7 days. It was a tough day, but showed me I could get through a tough day.

 

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