Cashew Cream Veggie Lasaga?

[LauraOC]

I'm a moderator in a rather large Whole30 Facebook support grouo. This recipe is gaining momentum & though to be compliant. I cannot find anything here in the forum to really support that, or deny it. As moderators, we feel it is not ok, certainly not in the spirit of the Whole30. Can a moderator please clarify for us so we can pass along a more official position?

"What You Need

-1 lb PRE ground beef, 92% lean

-2-3 medium zucchini

-4 cloves garlic, diced

-1 bag spinach or 1 box frozen spinach

-1 can tomato sauce

-1 can tomato paste

-1 container sliced mushrooms (if you like them)

-1 large white onion, diced

-1 tsp ghee or olive oil

-cooking spray

-2 TBSP Italian Seasoning, divided

-2 cups cashew cream (Make cashew cream by soaking 2 cups of cashews in 4 cups of water overnight. Drain the water in the morning. Put soft cashews into a blender with 2 cups of new water and puree until smooth.)"

The rest is basically layering & baking like traditional lasagna.

http://teacherpop.org/2016/03/teach-eat-repeat-recipe-whole30-lasagna/

[River30]

I'm no moderator (or expert), but I personally wouldn't make something like this. It seems to fall heartily into the "SWYPO" category -- replicating something using W30 ingredients that could trigger an emotional / psychological response. It's just like they say with off-limits paleo pancakes that are just egg and banana, right? It seems to be the same concept, just coming at it from a savory instead of sweet angle. 

Similarly.. what if you did something like create a savory "pizza crust" out of just cauliflower (something I've seen pop up a lot) or plantain or whatnot, and cover that with tomato sauce, cashew cream, and basil, and put it under the broiler until it looks like pizza... I personally wouldn't do that. I

I think there's a real value in preparing and looking at whole foods on your plate, and not trying to replicate non-W30 dishes. AND YET ... I use cauliflower "rice" and zucchini "noodles" all the time, so is there really a difference? 

All this to say I don't have an answer...I'd only GUESS that probably there should be some personal reflection before making a compliant "trigger" food like this, if that's a problem for anyone. 

 

[kirkor]

It's the cashew cream that is the iffy part, ya?

[LauraOC]

Thank you @River30 for your reply! You basically reiterated everything we've been saying as moderators. We don't see a difference between this, banana pancakes, sweet potato apple breakfast bake, paleo pizza crust, etc. They all seem to be trying to bend, stretch & break the rules.

[LauraOC]

1 minute ago, kirkor said:

It's the cashew cream that is the iffy part, ya?

No, this is similar to a cashew cream recipe in the Whole30 book. It's the application. Recreating a creamy, cheesy lasagna.

[River30]

Happy to help, Laura. And @kirkor, it's really the fact that in this recipe, cashew cream is masquerading as cheese, trying to be something it's not. That's definitely the iffy part. If it was just veggies and tomato sauce, like a ratatouille, that would be fine though! 

[kirkor]

1 hour ago, LauraOC said:

No, this is similar to a cashew cream recipe in the Whole30 book. It's the application. Recreating a creamy, cheesy lasagna.

How is the cream used in the book?

 

1 hour ago, LauraOC said:

 They all seem to be trying to bend, stretch & break the rules.

You could try putting it back on them.  Ask them what kind of people they want to be?  "Letter of the law" or "spirit of the law"?  If, after 30 days, they feel that they have successfully "tricked" the Whole30, will they feel like they've accomplished something worthwhile?

[LauraOC]

@kirkor.

I don't know. I don't have the cookbook, but I'll ask someone who does. I think it's just a recipe for cashew cream.

By "they all", I meant those foods/recipes. I agree, though. It's an ownership thing. In our group, we go by the rules.  But if something is ok, even if we don't agree with it, it's still ok. That's why we wanted some clarification. 

[slc_melissa]

In the cookbook, it's used as part of a horseradish sauce with steak and green beans and as part of a coconut cashew sauce for pork lettuce wraps.

I think it falls clearly within the trying to recreate dairy category and would be a no go for me. (Also, nothing about the idea of coconut cream sounds good to me, so that's my personal bias.)

[SugarcubeOD]

I'm going to go with no, it's not in the spirit of Whole30 and I feel like there isn't a person on the planet that couldn't live for 30 days without trying to recreate lasagna... I do like @kirkor's suggestion to put it back on them... there are no Whole30 police and if someone makes it and thinks they've hacked the Whole30 to get their lasagna fix, then that's what theyre going to do but they sure won't reap the benefits of actually changing the food on their plates... 

Also, I agree with @slc_melissa, it sounds gross.

[LauraOC]

Thank you, @SugarcubeOD! I will relay this back to the other moderators in our group. I appreciate everyone's input!

For the record, I completely agree...it sounds pretty disgusting to me, too.

[parksplacepaleo]

@sugarcubeOD Im curious....the cashew cream is a recipe in the whole30 book....what is its intended purpose besides to be a cheese substitute?  The issue comes with the fact that we arent supposed to ever make a cheese substitute, yet there is a cashew cream recipe in the book...did the rules change on this?

[laura_juggles]

On 3/17/2017 at 8:55 PM, slc_melissa said:

In the cookbook, it's used as part of a horseradish sauce with steak and green beans and as part of a coconut cashew sauce for pork lettuce wraps.

I think it falls clearly within the trying to recreate dairy category and would be a no go for me. (Also, nothing about the idea of coconut cream sounds good to me, so that's my personal bias.)

@parksplacepaleo The post that I quoted references the uses for the cashew cream in the book. As part of a horseradish or coconut cashew sauce would be fine, obviously, because they're in the Whole30 cookbook. Those dishes also aren't ones where you'd typically have a cheese sauce. I believe there's also a mention of berries with cashew cream in one of the "special occasion" meals in one of the books. 

[parksplacepaleo]

Thank you, I dont have the book in question so I havent actually seen the recipe.  We are just trying to know what type of posts to allow in the Whole 30 group that Laura was talking about previously.  So the cashew cream is ok to be used in sauces...and with berries (that is also confusing due to the no dessert recreations), but not in casseroles, zoodles, etc?  Do we have this correctly?

[laura_juggles]

No. 

Think about what you're trying to make. Are you making a creamy horseradish sauce for your steak? OK. Or you throw some soaked cashews into the blender with the broccoli soup you're processing so it's a little bit of a creamier broccoli soup? OK. Are you blending up a bunch of soaked cashews and nutritional yeast to put over zoodles to make "mac and cheese"? No. 

I only mentioned the berry thing because it's in the book and I wanted to say it before someone pulled the "but there's a recipe in the book with cashew cream and berries". As I said, it's part of a "special occasion" menu. So, you're hosting a Mother's Day brunch and want to put out something dessert-ish that's still Whole30. It's not an excuse to have berries and cream simply because you feel like it. 

But really, if you want to go and make zucchini lasagna with cashew cream or have berries with cashew cream every day, none of the moderators are going to show up at your house and throw you in SWYPO jail. But if you do that and post in 2 weeks that you still feel crummy and list out that you've been eating those things often, they'll tell you that's probably contributing to your issues because you're just feeding your sugar dragon and nuts aren't a great source of fat. 

[slc_melissa]

Well, the ingredients are technically compliant, so a lot of this comes down to personal accountability within the whole 30.  (Also, in my post above I meant to say cashew cream doesn't sound good to me personally, instead of saying coconut cream.  And in the sense where cashew cream is trying to directly replace and replicate some sort of cheese, it'd be a no go for me.)  Super excited about the idea of something that recreates cheese and can't wait to put 2 cups of it on your dish and revel in the faux-meltyness?  Pass on that lasagna recipe.  Using a tablespoon or two to help bind a sauce together that goes over a large plate of vegetables and meat?  Seems fine.

Also, recommendations are a closed handful of nuts every other day or so.....that's a lot of nuts in one dish.

I can't comment on the cashew cream/berry thing you mentioned, I've never noticed it if I have come across it, also, why would somebody do that to berries?

[wenderlust]

Ok, I'm new here so take this with a grain of salt (that's Whole30 approved, haha). I think this boils down to this. The ingredients are allowed but this plan seems to want to break you of old eating habits and open up a new thought pattern that you don't "need" those old foods, you can be satisfied, feel better, and look better if you change the way you think about food. And by doing so you can look at food differently in the future and make better choices. So, I'm not sure that by eating this lasagna you wouldn't feel good that day, everything is an allowed ingredient, but you wouldn't be helping yourself to break those old desires for food. So when you're off Whole30, you'll still be craving that lasagna instead of finding other better things to feed your body and your mind. So, for 30 days at least, let it go and set yourself free. I think this one is more mind than matter.

[PamPlano]

So... I made this lasagna and loved it. I had no idea it was SWYPO. Fortunately I am not on a round... I recently completed a Whole60... still eating Whole30 style by choice. Here’s what I believe is the important difference between this dish and real lasagna. After eating this, I feel GOOD. Not too full, no bloating, no regrets. It does NOT make me want traditional lasagna with cheese that would make me feel bad. I see this recipe as a win ... not a risk. It reinforces my GOOD choices. Similarly, I’m currently in love with a recently discovered recipe for dirty rice made with cauliflower. I genuinely don’t understand this stance against the lasagna, yet the dirty rice is ok. It makes me extra happy my strict 30 days is over, lol! And I plan to keep making and eating both!

[Hadley F]

Hi PamPlano,

I agree with you that cashew cream can be a tasty addition to your diet however it sounds like it needs to be post Whole30 in order to be compliant. I make a lovely cashew cheese (I can't tolerate dairy) and it is MAGIC! I just use it as a topping on chili, tacos, etc and it does NOT trick me into thinking it is cheese. It just tastes good and is healthy so why not! ?

This lasagne sounds perfectly compliant to me just as cauliflower rice and almond milk creamer is, but alas, that doesn't mean much. 

If someone thinks that adding cashew cream to a recipe is going to trick your brian into SWOPO they clearly have never eaten cashew cream! LOL!

 

 

 

[slc_melissa]

Part of the difference, to me, is how the ingredients are applied. Say I make a tomato and veggie sauce mixture to eat with meat. I’d regularly put zucchini in it anyway. Eating zucchini chopped or noodled makes no difference to the dish. 

But I would never make a tomato and veggie sauce and add whole cashews.  (Other people might, I suppose.) 

I know some people don’t see the difference. But, like previous posters have said, there is no whole 30 police, so *shrug.*