Dysautonomia/EDS and feeling shaky

[kirstizoe]

I'm only on Day 2, so I may be jumping the gun here, but I've noticed that as I go through my day I am getting hungrier MUCH quicker than normal (previously eating a pretty fluff/carb laden diet) I'm doing a physical therapy program for my POTS (lots of working out) so my POTS symptoms themselves are pretty under control but I'm wondering if my overactive nervous system (dysautonomia AND fibro) doesn't know what to do with itself without the fast energy from carbs? I'm getting what I feel are good balanced meals,

Breakfast today was 2 eggs, 2 homemade pork sausages, and a banana with some cashew butter. Lunch was a salad of 3 cups of leafy greens, about a palm and a half of chicken and a few almond slivers tossed in for extra crunch, Dinner meatballs over spaghetti squash. Its not like I'm skimping on portions here.

I eat until I'm full, and then and then two hours later I get the tell tale ache craving food. A piece of fruit with a thumb sized portion of cashew butter usually does the trick. I'm getting my fluids, and I'm getting my sodium (I take a sodium/potassium supplement on doctors orders) 

I hope this is temporary but I would LOVE some tips to help my body adjust. I've done a lot of work to get my body back from chronic illness (I still have my days where it wins) 

[ArtFossil]

Being hungry before 4-5 hours is a sign your meals aren't composed well/you're not eating enough. And, depending on the schedule and intensity of your workouts, you may also need a pre workout and post workout meal.

Fat and protein is the key to staying satisfied after a meal. A piece of fruit will likely just give you a sugar crash. Where are your fats? I don't see any in any of the meals (other than your cashew butter and I believe you ate that as a snack.) Fat is your friend on Whole30. 

Compose your meals according to the template. That means 1-2 fats (you can eat more!) at EVERY meal. Think mayo, ghee, olive oil, olives, avocado, etc (not nuts which are a poorer fat source). And fill your plate with vegetables for bulk. I don't see any veggies for breakfast and 3 cups of "leafy greens" is the equivalent of about 1/2 cup of veggies. Add denser vegetables--carrots, peppers, squash, potatoes, broccoli, cauliflower. Go wild! 

If you are genuinely hungry between meals, have a mini-meal of protein and fat (or protein and veggies), but not too close to a meal. Eat fruit only occasionally and always as part of a meal and don't let fruit crowd the veggies off your plate.

You can find the meal template here.

 

[ladyshanny]

What she said!! ^^^

[kirstizoe]

Eggs are cooked in Ghee, sausages in coconut oil don't worry both have PLENTY of fats in them, the banana was with breakfast but I've had that as a snack as well. (I've been keeping my fruit to about 2-3 pieces a day, and my nut butter portions with it are about a thumb or more, not eating half a jar in one sitting or anything) I'm thinking of upping my breakfast by an egg but I almost had trouble finishing my breakfast as it is.  I had an oil based dressing on my salad (not a small amount either) as well as nuts, I suppose there wasn't as much fat in my dinner, besides the coconut oil the meatballs were cooked in and the fat from the meat itself.  I haven't been sensing any sugar crashes after the fruit, my energy level has been pretty steady and even its the consistent constant hunger except when I'm eating and for shortly after that I'm concerned about. I'm weirdly tuned into my body (spoonie probs yo) and my mom has been doing a variation on low carb for over 10 years so fortunately I've got support at home 

I'm wondering if I'm just coming down HARD from a sugar dependency? Like my body doesn't know not to be hungry if I don't have sugar? The problem is when my body gets triggered for being hungry my POTS goes "OH HELLO THERE!" 

 

[ArtFossil]

Cooking fats generally don't count. Add extra to your meals! Have mayo, avocado etc in addition to the salad dressing. And add your veggies in the morning. Then see how you feel. 

"Everyone" struggles to some degree with meal 1, and eating it within an hour of waking. But eat it. If you don't finish, set it aside and finish it an hour later. Meal 1 is super important as the foundation for your day and to help balance your hormones.

2-3 pieces of fruit a day is a lot. Try substituting vegetables. For example, if I had your meal 3 of spaghetti squash I'd have two cups of another cooked vegetable as well. Similarly at lunch as an addition to the salad greens.

Really, just try increasing your fat and veggies and ditch the fruit and see how you feel. If you eat to the template for a few days, what happens is you're hungry at appropriate times and satisfied and energetic in between meals. 

[kirstizoe]

Interesting... veeeeery interesting. I'll admit the idea of veggies in addition to my breakfast isn't appealing but my neurologist (who specializes in POTS) wants me to be portioning out my food more than the Whole30 would suggest to help with my gut motility.  I'm usually really really good about breakfast right away but maybe I need to embrace a midmorning snack high in those veggies I missed with some Whole30 approved ranch dressing? Maybe some avacado "toast" on a sweet potato in the afternoon. 

But I'm really not eating more fruit than I'm supposed to. Promise. Tonights post dinner "oh crap I'm still hungry" snack was brought to you by a hard boiled egg :-) 

[ArtFossil]

Seriously--eat a template meal for meal 1! With 1-3 cups of veggies! Within one hour of waking! Eat all around the plate--some protein, some FAT and some veggies. Then repeat. If you don't eat it all, cover it up and finish later. But don't plan to snack. Your goal is three template meals and no snacks and believe me it's doable. Just do it!

[kirstizoe]

I hear what you're saying. I'm not planning to snack. I'm planning to follow my doctors orders. Thanks though. I'm sure you some research on Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome you'll fine lots of us with POTS/Dysautonomia need to eat smaller meals throughout the day because our digestive system works too quickly/too slowly for us to absorb nutrients (due to the failure of our autonomic nervous system) . Which is why I'm trying Whole30! :-) I've added a resource in case you're interested. 

http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=44

[ArtFossil]

3 minutes ago, kirstizoe said:

I hear what you're saying. I'm not planning to snack. I'm planning to follow my doctors orders. Thanks though. I'm sure you some research on Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome you'll fine lots of us with POTS/Dysautonomia need to eat smaller meals throughout the day because our digestive system works too quickly/too slowly for us to absorb nutrients (due to the failure of our autonomic nervous system) . Which is why I'm trying Whole30! :-) I've added a resource in case you're interested. 

http://www.dysautonomiainternational.org/page.php?ID=44

That's understandable and if you need to eat smaller more frequent meals, you still compose them according to the template--protein/fat/veggies.

[SugarcubeOD]

2-3 piece of fruit a day is a lot when you're already struggling with getting enough veggies... it would be our recommendation to do veggies over fruit for a while until you get a proper feel for how to plate up your meals.

You talk about snacking on veggies and ranch and avocado 'toast' in the afternoons which is what @ArtFossil was trying to mention isn't great.  There are people who have medical necessity to eat more smaller meals a day instead of 3; this is fine, but your meals should still be composed as per the template, just smaller... so 1 palm of protein, 1-2 cups of veggies and some added fat.

Nuts and nut butters are inherently hard to digest, can be food with no brakes for some and are an inferior fat source.  They're recommended to be 'limited' and we explain limited as one closed handful (about 8 amonds) or a thumb of butter every other day AT MOST.  We definitely don't recommend eating it every day, let alone at every meal.

That breakfast of two eggs and two sausages would have done you so much better if you'd ditched the banana and nut butter and added in some veggies and a healthy fat like avocado or olives.

You asked for tips in your first post and you've been given them but honestly, you seem intent on sticking with what you're doing.  Which is totally fine if that's what you choose to do. But the 'tips' that we're giving you are the structure of the program in the way it will provide the best results. That means that even if you need to eat more than 3 meals a day, you compose them according to the template, forget snacking, replace fruits with veggies and find some other fat source besides nut butter.

[kirstizoe]

 

https://whole30.com/2015/01/rules-recommendations/

Meal template

Our free meal template details our recommendation for building your Whole30 plate, especially when you’re new to the program and your natural regulatory signals (hungry/full) haven’t kicked in yet.  We make sure you get enough protein, fat, and veggies while still giving you some flexibility to accommodate those days when you’re not so hungry (or eating All the Things). However, your plate doesn’t have to look like our template, and for many who need to eat way more (big, strong athletes) or way less (smaller kiddos), remember that as long as the ingredients in your meal are 100% compliant, then it’s a Whole30 meal. (I dont like veggies for breakfast. I just...dont. *shrug*.) 

No snacking

As we explain in detail in It Starts With Food, eating three meals each day with minimal snacking (except pre- and post-workout meals) helps to keep your hormones in a healthy rhythm and teaches you to focus on eating mindfully. However, it’s really okay if you find you have to eat between meals.  For folks who are used to eating six small meals, it might take some time to get used to eating just three big ones. For those who work really long days, you might find that four meals or three meals and a snack are in order. For kids and pregnant/nursing mothers, this recommendation goes right out the window; snack away (just make sure you’re leaving about 3 hours between eating sessions, and not grazing all day). (I'm not a kid or pregnant, but having a chronic illness...or three...is a LOT like being pregnant) Sometimes, for no apparent reason, you just need a little something to get you through, and that’s okay too.  The success of your Whole30 likely isn’t riding on whether or not you have a mini-meal a few afternoons.

Fruit intake

Our meal template recommends around two servings of fruit per day, eaten with your meals (and not on their own as “dessert” or a snack). However, that’s just a starting point, not a hard and fast mandate. We’re really not concerned with the amount of sugar in whole foods, in the context of a Whole30 diet. It also makes sense to eat more fruit in summer, and less in winter, so your intake in August may look like five servings a day, and just one or two in January. However, if eating fruit awakens your Sugar Dragon or you find yourself using it to satisfy an old sugar craving, we encourage you to take a good, hard look at when, how often, and why you are incorporating fruit (especially dried fruit) into your Whole30. (I said that I wasn't having any wild sugar cravings, or satisfying them with fruit- and my very anti-carb diabetic mother is supporting me here) 

Bolding and Italics are mine. 

Thanks everyone. Best of luck to everyone and their whole30 journey. Your attitudes and comments and negativity certainly didn't make me feel like I should quit on day 2. I'll be sticking with other resources and the book from here on out. 

[SugarcubeOD]

Everything that you bolded in that article was what I said in my response to you.

I'm unsure of what sort of tips you were looking for in the beginning of your post if it wasn't what was given to you.  We definitely don't want you to quit and none of the posts were meant to be negative.  Perhaps if you can give some idea of what you were looking for as far as tips go, we can help.

You came here specifically asking what you can do to not be hungry two hours after a meal and the information you were given is something you could try.  Hey, it may not actually work for you, but most of the time when people want advice, they will actually take the advice given and try and apply it.  You asked us for advice, we didn't seek you out to neg on your meals.

[kirstizoe]

I came for advice on why I was feeling a certain way (shaky hungry- by the way - through a lot of research I did finally figure out that my constant hunger despite not actually wanting food IS a sign of sugar withdrawl. Thanks guys. Super helpful on that one.) and instead I was beat over the head with what I was doing the program wrong. HOW FUN! I say I'm eating 'til I'm stuffed and I get told I'm eating wrong. I read a book that I find encouraging not weight focused and more focused on my well being and then I get told by the groupies that I'm doing it wrong. Typical. 

Yup. You can BET I'm defensive. This is like the doctors visit from hell when he doesn't know jack diddly about any of my illneses but what he googled before my appt but tells me I need to start a new medication that I've already tried and I'm allergic to. 

If you're a moderator on here learn how to manage group dynamics. MODERATORS are the ones that manage the atmosphere here, and as a social worker...just... WOW. Rememberthose Sesame Street episodes where they talk about no "you" statements but "I" statements? Yeah. SHOCKINGLY there's a whole science behind that. 

 

Please delete my Whole30 forum account. If I stick with Whole30 it will be in SPITE of everyone in this conversation.

*sips a V8 while eating an apple* 

Toodles. 

[GracefullyOvercoming]

My comment is for Kristizoe.

I have POTS and get sick "every single time" I give any diet or food changes (or try limiting soda) a try. Be careful. Probably gonna make people want to stone me with this next statement, but. . . Maybe try a 'normal' high salt meal, to see if it makes a difference In your symptoms. I am trying lower carb, since judging by research it might help my super low bp (60s/40s). But, I know I have to be cautious and aware that my body may not be able to handle it (many many diet tries). Also, make sure you don't have like a histamine intolerance  (tons with POTS do) before you go veggie crazy - unless you live on Benadryl anyway. Hopefully, this advice can help. I wanted to reply, because attempting a healthy diet (even for 30 days) with POTS is brutally difficult.