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Help with weight not coming off

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Hi! On Day 25, and decided to weigh myself - not looking for judgment that I decided to weigh myself, thanks. Anyway, I'm down 1.2 pounds since I started. I'm also a 5'7 female who has over 100 lbs to lose - currently at 286.4, so this isn't making sense. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. By just the sheer nature that I've cut out sodas, fast food, along with sugar, grains, legumes, dairy, and alcohol, seems like I should see more of a change on the scale. I realize this is alone is a healthier way that I'm eating now, but I should absolutely be seeing that change on the scale as well. And please I don't want to hear that 1.2 pounds down is better than nothing - that won't be helpful for what I'm trying to resolve here.

Typical day:

Breakfast

3 eggs - either poached or scrambled with 4th and Heart ghee, 2 handfuls of spinach, tablespoon of raw sauerkraut, half mini avocado, sea salt and pepper

Lunch

Salad - greens, diced chicken breast, cucumbers, onion, tomato, olives, hardboiled egg, celery, olive oil and balsamic vinegar, apple

Dinner

Grassfed steak or ground turkey patties with zucchini, spinach salad with Tessemae's whole30 dressing and ketchup, also been having potato, not sure if I should cut that out.

Snacks

I do find that I need snacks in between meals - those have generally consisted of RX bars or couple handfuls of almonds or fruit like watermelon -- maybe too many nuts?

I am drinking roughly 8-10 glasses of water a day, well, water or lacroix sparkling water, or pellegrino. 

Maybe I'm eating too much. Or too little. 
 

Any recommendations?

 

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The first recommendation I have is to stay off the scale.  If you're coming from a SAD diet and have any underlying medical conditions, your body is going to prioritize healing over weight loss.  Second, i'm not sure how you used to eat before but if it was a cycle of restriction and binging, then your body probably doesn't trust that this way of eating is going to last, which means it's not going to just suddenly drop a bunch of weight, regardless of how much you have to lose.  This is why not weighing is a rule, because there is so much going on in each individual body that a number on the scale is a minute part of the whole story.

If you find you need snacks because you're actually hungry between meals (like you could happily eat something bland like steamed fish and broccoli and think it was the best thing ever) then your meals are not sufficient.  If this is the case, while we get your meals sorted, eat a mini meal of protein and fat and ideally veggies (chicken salad with cucumber slices is a good mini meal).  If you're snacking because you are bored, it's a habit or its for comfort, then the only way to stop doing that is to stop doing it.  We don't recommend fruit and nuts on their own and RX Bars are for emergency use only (like dig it out of the bottom of your purse where it's been for weeks because you find yourself stranded on the tarmac in a blizzard type of emergency).

Water is recommended to be 1/2 oz per pound of bodyweight... not sure how big the glasses are that you're drinking but my guess is you're not getting there... 

The way you've listed your meals, it's hard to tell portion sizes... I'd suggest adding more veggies to breakfast and then the rest, are you matching the template?  Greens are difficult because you really need to eat a wheelbarrow full... think about the volume of greens when they chew or steam down.

As far as recommendations on how to maneuver the program to make it a weightloss program, we don't offer that kind of advice.  The advice I have for you is to keep going... think of the long game here... you're working on a long term relationship with your body where you may not have honored it or respected it in the past and that takes some time to undo... keep going, there's nothing about this way of eating that is going to be bad for you and eventually the weight will come off.  I realize this is not the answer you want and at 100 pounds overweight, the word eventually is like poison.. but it's true - take it from me, I lost 100 pounds eating Whole30 a few years ago... When it starts to happen, it goes... don't try and rush it by hacking this program, that will not get you the results you're after!

 

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Thanks, Sugarcube. I've read and reread your message like 10 times. Hopefully, I won't come off as completely rude here, but let's be honest, everyone is expecting weightloss, so the feedback on "how to maneuver the program to make it a weights program, we don't offer that advice", comes across really as just snarky BS. Look, 286lbs, the healthiest thing I could do for myself is lose that weight. That's what I have to do. This isn't about vanity, it's about health.

I'm completely disheartened. I've spent the last 25 days cooking for myself, not going out to eat, spending double the amount of money on food then I typically would, and I have nothing to show for it. 

When I eat meals, especially at lunch, I'm 100% full, I have to push myself to finish eating the vegetables. Afternoon snack isn't from boredom, I find myself feeling physically a little weak or jittery without it. Evening snacking might be that, I'll swap out the nuts/rx bar to chicken and veg.

Water - at your suggestion I would be drinking like 18 standard cups of water a day. Isn't that too much? 

Long game - ok, but Im not seeing any indication that this is working at all. Weight is basically the same, I don't really feel any better. 

Meals - generally 2/3 of the plate is covered with vegetables. I'm doing 1/2 to 2 palms of protein. 

Initially considering a Whole45 or 60, but at this point what I've seen is all the shitty things the timeline suggests, but none of the positive things. I'm seriously concerned that this isn't the right program for me. I can tweak here and there, but bottom line, where are the positive results - ANY positive results. 

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I don't believe so. I've been checked out by Doctors in the past, who have said - you just need to lose the weight. No thyroid issues. I should also include that I'm 37. Not on any medications. 

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22 minutes ago, EllieViolet said:

spending double the amount of money on food then I typically would

Without seeing what your food budget was before, it's hard to say for sure, but just skimming your sample food list, it looks like you could swap in other things for the grassfed steak, Tessamae's, and RX bars to save some cash.

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@kirkor, thanks but not really the focus of my post. Moving to organic, grassfed, pasture-raised, blah, blah blah protein and vegetables is what drove the price up. I try buying protein on sale, but it's still expensive. A frozen grassfed steak from Trade Joes once a week isn't the issue. Ground turkey is more common, or chicken legs and thighs.  Considering I used to eat out at for lunch daily (not fast food), I would expect overall cost to go down, but again, really not the topic I'm trying to address here.

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EllieViolet, please read what I write knowing that I absolutely relate to your frustration. I have MORE weight than you do to lose, and I have 10 years on you, so my chances are slim. You asked what you're doing wrong? In my opinion: 1. weighing yourself. 2. consciously or unconsciously restricting something....maybe calories, maybe fat. 3. believing with all your heart that this has not been worth it because you haven't shifted the scale. 

However else you feel about your body, until you see its inherent worth and the value in feeding it real whole foods and not hyperstimulating restaurant food and a lot of sugar, you will condemn it. I know it sounds super hokey and not at all results that you want, but you have to believe that you deserve to be nourished for no other reason than that's what's good for your physical and mental and emotional health. I'm honestly convinced that self-loathing causes a disconnect in the brain that puts it in a fight-or-flight mode all the time, caused by the anxiety of not losing weight, which causes stress hormones to course through our bodies, which interfere with our bodies' ability to self regulate and so on and so on in a vicious circle. 

Maybe you're right and this isn't the program for you. But you haven't wasted the effort by feeding yourself. 

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55 minutes ago, EllieViolet said:

Thanks, Sugarcube. I've read and reread your message like 10 times. Hopefully, I won't come off as completely rude here, but let's be honest, everyone is expecting weightloss, so the feedback on "how to maneuver the program to make it a weights program, we don't offer that advice", comes across really as just snarky BS. Look, 286lbs, the healthiest thing I could do for myself is lose that weight. That's what I have to do. This isn't about vanity, it's about health.

I'm completely disheartened. I've spent the last 25 days cooking for myself, not going out to eat, spending double the amount of money on food then I typically would, and I have nothing to show for it. 

When I eat meals, especially at lunch, I'm 100% full, I have to push myself to finish eating the vegetables. Afternoon snack isn't from boredom, I find myself feeling physically a little weak or jittery without it. Evening snacking might be that, I'll swap out the nuts/rx bar to chicken and veg.

Water - at your suggestion I would be drinking like 18 standard cups of water a day. Isn't that too much? 

Long game - ok, but Im not seeing any indication that this is working at all. Weight is basically the same, I don't really feel any better. 

Meals - generally 2/3 of the plate is covered with vegetables. I'm doing 1/2 to 2 palms of protein. 

Initially considering a Whole45 or 60, but at this point what I've seen is all the shitty things the timeline suggests, but none of the positive things. I'm seriously concerned that this isn't the right program for me. I can tweak here and there, but bottom line, where are the positive results - ANY positive results. 

I realize you're frustrated but it wasn't snarky BS.  Did you read the parts I wrote about letting your body come to trust that proper amounts of healthy fuel are going to be consistently incoming? Or the part about how 100 pounds of excess weight has probably created problems in your hormones and gut that are not going to be resolved in 25 days?  Or the part that once your body trusts you and things are in stasis, the weight WILL come off.

I know what you wanted was for me to say 'cut the template in half, skip the fat and weight will come off'.  Which is true btw... calorie restriction ALWAYS works in the short term... It is also unsustainable and will only serve to make things worse.

You said that you are not seeing any positive results... I encourage you to take a look at this non scale victory checklist and tell me not one of those things is improved https://whole30.com/downloads/whole30-nsv.pdf

The poster above me is also right... altho easier said than done, the stress caused by being consumed with weight loss and dissatisfaction surrounding one's body is absolutely going to play into weight loss.

I know you're frustrated.  I do!  I know what it's like to be very overweight and just want something to work... anything... NOW.  It doesn't work like that and I know you know that... give it time... again, easier said than done.

As far as the expense, you did mention you were spending double on groceries and @kirkor was trying to help with that part... you mentioned it, which makes it part of the issues that people are going to try and help you resolve so that this is a sustainable program for you.

 

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2 hours ago, EllieViolet said:

Hi! On Day 25, and decided to weigh myself - not looking for judgment that I decided to weigh myself, thanks. Anyway, I'm down 1.2 pounds since I started. I'm also a 5'7 female who has over 100 lbs to lose - currently at 286.4, so this isn't making sense. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Hi @EllieViolet! I'm sooooo glad you reached out on this forum. I know EXACTLY how frustrated and disappointed you feel right now. And you won't receive any judgment from me, because during my first round of Whole30, I got impatient and weighed myself around the same time, day twenty-something. At that point, I had gained a pound and my already ginormous bust was 1.5 inches BIGGER. I was crushed, to say the least. I kept going, but my spirit was wounded and that took away my openness to recognizing the non-scale victories I probably experienced during that last week. I cried. It was a completely unnecessary emotional letdown, because I weighed in again on Day 31 and had lost 10 pounds. That last week must have been the real sweet spot for me, because not only did I lose the weight, but I lost a total of 6 inches all over my body. 

I went into the first round with a weight loss goal of 20 pounds. I don't know why and it's embarrassing to say this to you, but I honestly believed that I would experience a weight loss miracle through Whole30. I had read dozens of times that Whole30 is NOT a weight loss program, but in my heart and mind, I believed it was. And that hurt me more than it helped me. 

After reintroduction, I lost another 10 pounds without even trying. Whatever nutritional correction my body needed, it just took time. I strongly encourage you to just stay the course. Consistency is what will allow your body to trust this healing process. I won't tell you not to weigh yourself; that's your choice. But I will say that I can hear the messages my body is sending me more clearly when I am NOT weighing myself. Best wishes to you, Ellie!

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1 hour ago, EllieViolet said:

Initially considering a Whole45 or 60, but at this point what I've seen is all the shitty things the timeline suggests, but none of the positive things. I'm seriously concerned that this isn't the right program for me. I can tweak here and there, but bottom line, where are the positive results - ANY positive results. 

I don't know if it's appropriate to share this nugget, so I'm going to put it out there with the hope that a moderator will delete if it's too far 'out there.' 

I just recently learned about the Herxheimer Reaction, or as more widely called, a healing crisis. For some people, myself included, when the body is especially full of toxins, a detox can make us feel worse before we feel better. This is because all that sludge is being released from our cells (yay!), but our organs can't keep up with the need to eliminate it from the body. So symptoms like rash, bloating, sleep problems, achy muscles and joints, and digestive issues may make it feel like the detox isn't worthwhile, but I'd argue instead that these are signs that you're doing it right! There are ways to support your body with elimination of those free-floating toxins. First off, drink more water. It sounds like you're drinking more than most people do already, but your body needs more right now to flush all that junk out. Also, fermented foods and beverages like sauerkraut and kombucha help too. The healthy acids and bacteria cling to the toxins so that the liver can rid the body of them FOREVER. Then, my friend, comes the Tiger Blood. 

I am not an expert, no way. But it may be something to read up on and a good reason to feel hopeful. 

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6 minutes ago, SweetEnough said:

I don't know if it's appropriate to share this nugget, so I'm going to put it out there with the hope that a moderator will delete if it's too far 'out there.' 

I just recently learned about the Herxheimer Reaction, or as more widely called, a healing crisis. For some people, myself included, when the body is especially full of toxins, a detox can make us feel worse before we feel better. This is because all that sludge is being released from our cells (yay!), but our organs can't keep up with the need to eliminate it from the body. So symptoms like rash, bloating, sleep problems, achy muscles and joints, and digestive issues may make it feel like the detox isn't worthwhile, but I'd argue instead that these are signs that you're doing it right! There are ways to support your body with elimination of those free-floating toxins. First off, drink more water. It sounds like you're drinking more than most people do already, but your body needs more right now to flush all that junk out. Also, fermented foods and beverages like sauerkraut and kombucha help too. The healthy acids and bacteria cling to the toxins so that the liver can rid the body of them FOREVER. Then, my friend, comes the Tiger Blood. 

I am not an expert, no way. But it may be something to read up on and a good reason to feel hopeful. 

This is absolutely appropriate to share and absolutely true- detox reactions can be simply a headache all the way to a Herxheimer Reaction!  @EllieViolet don't quit now... if you're in fact having a terrible detox reaction, you don't want to have to go through that again ever... much like when people get the DT's from booze... you push through becasue you never want to experience that again!  Keep pushing... nothing is instant but good and lasting things are worth working for and you're working for it now!

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Thanks everyone for your positive support, and suggestions!

Today is day 31, got on the scale. I've lost a total of 5 pounds since day 1 (I'm not satisfied with this, but it is what it is). I've been having unpleasant detox like symptoms, so going to continue for another couple weeks before I consider to reintroduce anything. 

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22 hours ago, EllieViolet said:

Thanks everyone for your positive support, and suggestions!

Today is day 31, got on the scale. I've lost a total of 5 pounds since day 1 (I'm not satisfied with this, but it is what it is). I've been having unpleasant detox like symptoms, so going to continue for another couple weeks before I consider to reintroduce anything. 

Thanks for this update, I have been wondering how you're doing. Please do fill us in on progress for these next couple of weeks. We all carry each other. 

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I think Dr. Hyman's approach sounds fine and it's very similar to a Whole 30.  It could be just the right strategy for you.

It doesn't really matter what or how we choose to take the weight off, if we fall back into our old ways of eating, all of the weight  comes back. Slowly, quickly or within a year or two.  Losing weight is only one piece of the puzzle.

Maintaining all of the weight loss and managing food going forward is where the rubber meets the road. It is a lifelong commitment.

We have our Brain Weight and our Dream Weight. The two seldom coincide. Every time we diet, we raise the bar for our optimum set point-  that Brain Weight goes higher and higher. After every major weight loss, if rebound follows..the Dream Weight is further out of reach. Again.

The Brain Weight is the body's survival mechanism and it is bent on survival. Whatever we choose to do, we have to remain consistent going forward after all of the weight releasing.

A wise man once said, Tom Denham, there isn't anything magical about a Whole 30 that will keep the weight off.  Once you return and fall back into your old ways of eating, the weight can come back, too.

Managing food and maintaining is a delicate balancing act for those coming from a background filled with dieting.

This is where the so worth it moments come in. I don't know what those are because all of a food addict's moments are so worth it.

Intuitive eating doesn't work for me either. My intuition is always cued UP in the eat mode and my satiety cues are knocking up against the rocks.  Even after 3 years, I could eat whopping boatloads of food in one sitting.  I can't do the one bite rule, one bite leads to a backseat full of groceries and returning back to the scene of the crime to buy more groceries to replace those so no one will know about it.  Secret eating is a thing.

I eat whole foods in whole forms, refraining from triggers. That's it in a nutshell and how I keep it together.

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The key to losing weight is gaining the cooperation of your hormones. Unfortunately, intermittent fasting and keto protocols can push your hormones into the opposite rhythms of what you need to lose weight. Any technique to jump start/force weight loss can push your hormones out of a good rhythm. Our culture has taught us that we should try radical new things when what we are doing isn't working. Or isn't working fast enough to suit us.

Sometimes new things work. Sometimes new things keep from working what really will work if you let it. 

When you are following Whole30 best practices - eating within one hour of waking. Eating meals that keep you satisfied 4-5 hours at least 3 times per day. Eating post-workout meals after intense exercise. Drinking 1/2 of water per pound of bodyweight per day. Avoiding nuts and fruit as a snack. Avoiding snacking at all. When you do these things, your body will respond, although it may take longer than you want.

Minimizing carbs from starchy veggies can be counterproductive. You can lose weight while eating starchy veggies several times per day, so I am suspicious of protocols that ask you to eliminate them or consume them irregularly. 

Many people have tried 30 different diets before coming to the Whole30 and, unfortunately, the Whole30 proves to be number 31 and soon they are on to number 32.

The thing about the Whole30 is that it is organized to have you eating nutrient dense foods that your body needs on a schedule and in a volume that supports optimum health. There is not a more health-enhancing approach to eating.

There are more convenient approaches and there are certainly faster ways to make weight disappear, but no approach will improve your health faster or support your keeping it longer. 

- Tom Denham

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Thanks @MeadowLily. By any chance, did you read the post that I included? It had nothing to do with intermittent fasting or keto. I was looking for feedback on that blog, not Dr Hyman's overall approach, which while similar is different than Whole 30. Limitations on fruit, the recommendation of supplements, etc.

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EllieViolet, I kindly offer you these words of encouragement. Tom Denham knows the science, the psychology, what it takes to make Whole 30 work. dcducks was a motivator like none other. These two men helped me believe I could get where I wanted to be. I'm forever grateful. I don't know anything about Dr. Hyman's blog but I know that following Tom Denham's suggestions works for weight releasing, and he leads the way for maintaining all of the good results.

"The next time you look into the mirror I want you to realize that you are looking at your BEST friend. You might think that someone else is your best friend...but they aren't! Nobody supports you or wants you to succeed more than the person staring back at you. The person staring back is the one that you have said horrible things to, thought horrible things about, treated terribly.......things you would have never done to the person you think is your best friend.......if you had, your "best friend" would have left you. But the BEST friend in the mirror is still there. That friend is already at the weight you want to be.....but has been kind enough to carry YOU ....and not complain. That friend is more than ready to assist you, encourage you, and smile back at you as you move through this program and get healthier. Realize your BEST friend and watch your life and health change!"

dcducks

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We're posting at the same time. :D  Yes, I read the link. I've read what you're looking for in your posts.

Lop off the first paragraph of Tom Denham's post. If you follow that template...you can find authentic weight loss success. For real.

I hope someone out there can give you the answers, answers, answers.

 

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3 hours ago, EllieViolet said:

@MeadowLily, thanks.

If anyone else has any thoughts on Dr Mark Hyman's suggestions on "Why Can't I Lose Weight", I'd love to hear them:  http://drhyman.com/blog/2017/08/10/cant-lose-weight/?

What sort of feedback are you looking for on that article?  I would have a tendancy to agree with his approach for the most part, however I still don't believe that your body will drop weight until it feels comfortable that you are going to keep eating this way and not go back to any sort of restriction AND that your body will prioritize healing over losing weight.

did you have a specific question about something in the article that we can address?

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2 hours ago, SugarcubeOD said:

What sort of feedback are you looking for on that article?  I would have a tendancy to agree with his approach for the most part, however I still don't believe that your body will drop weight until it feels comfortable that you are going to keep eating this way and not go back to any sort of restriction AND that your body will prioritize healing over losing weight.

did you have a specific question about something in the article that we can address?

Thoughts on the recommended supplements. Such as alpha lipoic acid.

He recommends supplements where unless I missed it, we don't really cover that with Whole 30?

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56 minutes ago, EllieViolet said:

Thoughts on the recommended supplements. Such as alpha lipoic acid.

He recommends supplements where unless I missed it, we don't really cover that with Whole 30?

So the thing with supplements is that you don't know if you're deficient or not unless you get tested... often people take supplements like these on the 'advice' of someone like Dr. Hyman who is going to make money off of it and they don't need it... that's just flushing money down the toilet.  I know you're struggling with not seeing a lot of weight loss but I don't think a $52 bottle of pills is going to help... I really don't.  

Here's an article with info on ALA which includes information on which foods have it and what it's for.  I don't trust anyone who is telling the public to take something and then just conveniently has their own store... you're better off to get these items from food and if you do some research you may find that there are complimentary foods that help the bioavailability of ALA (it might be in the article, I didn't read the full thing).

https://draxe.com/alpha-lipoic-acid/

The same is going to be true for anything that he's suggesting people take with such a clickbait headline like 'WHY aren't YOU losing weight!?!'.  It's a ploy for your money.

For discussions on the Whole30 and supplements, there are a few articles that you can easily find by googling 'whole30 supplements'.  They're going to be on the Whole9 website as well as copious discussions on the supplements section of this forum.  Please just keep eating real food, I PROMISE things will get better!

 

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5 hours ago, SugarcubeOD said:

So the thing with supplements is that you don't know if you're deficient or not unless you get tested... often people take supplements like these on the 'advice' of someone like Dr. Hyman who is going to make money off of it and they don't need it... that's just flushing money down the toilet.  I know you're struggling with not seeing a lot of weight loss but I don't think a $52 bottle of pills is going to help... I really don't.  

Here's an article with info on ALA which includes information on which foods have it and what it's for.  I don't trust anyone who is telling the public to take something and then just conveniently has their own store... you're better off to get these items from food and if you do some research you may find that there are complimentary foods that help the bioavailability of ALA (it might be in the article, I didn't read the full thing).

https://draxe.com/alpha-lipoic-acid/

The same is going to be true for anything that he's suggesting people take with such a clickbait headline like 'WHY aren't YOU losing weight!?!'.  It's a ploy for your money.

For discussions on the Whole30 and supplements, there are a few articles that you can easily find by googling 'whole30 supplements'.  They're going to be on the Whole9 website as well as copious discussions on the supplements section of this forum.  Please just keep eating real food, I PROMISE things will get better!

 

I am actually considering going to a functional medicine doctor as he recommends, and have been researching ones in my local area. But before doing that was curious to see if anyone had any thoughts on the recommendations in that blog.  Anyway, the article on ALA, was great, thanks. It touches on part of what I was interested in, but i'll have to do some more research on the mercury chelator bit, where I have some concern.

I don't agree with your sentiment that taking supplements is a waste, @SugarcubeOD.  Please don't lump everything together with generalities. Dr Hyman doesn't make money if I go to my local vitamin shop and buy the vitamins there (as I've done in the past). He doesn't make money if I go to a functional medicine doctor as he recommends. And a post called "Why Can't I Lose Weight" is not clickbait or a ploy for money when it goes into great detail on things to look at and address, as it did. That would be the like calling the entire Whole30 website a clickbait scam - not something you probably would like.

And to clarify, in no way did I say, I'm going to ditch eating real food - you seem to have the impression that I lived off junk food prior to doing whole30, and that's really not the case. I'm not looking for promises that things will get better. I'm looking to find a solution that will work long term for me. So far Whole30 hasn't made the grade, how long should someone stick to something that isn't working before they are considered a chump?

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