LauraOC Posted September 16, 2017 Share Posted September 16, 2017 I have searched the forum & have not found an answer to this question. I also sent messages to Whole30 a while back, but haven't received a response. Hopefully someone here can advise me... I have been trying to make the Whole30 Ketchup recipe from the Whole30 book, The 30 Day Guide to Total Health and Food Freedom. [moderator edit - you cannot post copyrighted materials here] I made it as suggested twice. But the vinegar was SO overwhelming that's all we could taste & it was very runny. I had to add two more cans of tomato paste & more cider to balance it, and even then it was a strong vinegar flavor, but in a good way. Is the 1/2 cup a typo?? Also, it says "We could use date paste to make our sugary, but that's not really in line with the spirit of the Whole30. This ketchup will have more of a lighter vinegar flavor, different but still delicious on eggs, burgers, and baked potato "fries." The "lighter vinegar flavor" sounds like the 1/2 cup might be incorrect. Every other recipe I find has,a max of 4 Tbs to 1 cup tomato paste. ALSO... the dates. Every other recipe I come across fir Whole30 ketchup calls for dates, even here on the forum. I'm confused by the contrasting statement in the book & the sweet recipes I keep sing posted by Whole30 partners calling sweetened ketchup Whole30. Some call for a whopping 1/3-1/2 cup of dates! Any clarification is appreciated. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraOC Posted September 16, 2017 Author Share Posted September 16, 2017 Speaking of typos... "fkavir?!" Um..."flavor" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoneOtherThanAmy Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 @LauraOC From my perspective as a Whole30 participant, the recipe in the book does use apple cider as a sweetener, so I had no issues with using dates to sweeten the ketchup when I made my own. To keep more in line with the Whole30 feel, I only used 2 dates to sweeten the ketchup rather than the 1/2 cup called for in the recipe I was following. I do remember that I used much less vinegar than the recipe in the book, but I think I added more at the end to come up with a flavor that I thought would be similar to the recipe in the book. I'm pretty happy with my ketchup; it is not overly sweet or vinegary, but has hints of both flavors and goes well with burgers and baked "fries". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slc_melissa Posted September 17, 2017 Share Posted September 17, 2017 The internet is the wild west as far what any blogger can call "whole 30." Dates are allowed (in certain applications) if not encouraged on the whole 30. I would assume they had a quite different recipe (compared to others) in their book to help give people options that they hadn't considered. But, feel free to modify recipes to suite individual tastes. Some people like really vinegary ketchup or say bbq sauce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ShannonM816 Posted September 18, 2017 Moderators Share Posted September 18, 2017 I have never made any of the whole30 ketchup recipes since the only things I really like it on are definitely not whole30, but I know this one from Well Fed 2 is compliant despite having a couple of dates in it: https://meljoulwan.com/2014/03/06/wf2-recipe-kickass-ketchup/ I definitely would avoid recipes that call for more than a couple of dates, but it has always been okay in the past to use a date or two or some other fruit for sweetening a sauce. Now, if by chance you find that when you have ketchup you find yourself craving other sweet things, you'd want to take a look at that, but that's more a matter of personal responsibility than of rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smu82513 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 It is correct, 1/2 cup Apple cider vinegar. On whole30 you will be retraining your taste buds. It isn't supposed to fast just like Heinz. If the vinegar flavor is too strong reduce the amount of vinegar. Also, it is not as thick as store bought ketchup, that's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraOC Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, Smu82513 said: It is correct, 1/2 cup Apple cider vinegar. On whole30 you will be retraining your taste buds. It isn't supposed to fast just like Heinz. If the vinegar flavor is too strong reduce the amount of vinegar. Also, it is not as thick as store bought ketchup, that's ok. I realize that. I've done many rounds of Whole30. I don't eat sugar or other sweeteners as a general rule & have gone without ketchup since my first round in 2013. However, the results of this recipe were very runny tomato-flavored vinegar. No other recipe I've found calls for more than a few Tbs, so I wanted to check & see if it was correct. Also, even here in the forum & in bloggers & sites that are Whole30 affiliates, many "Whole30" ketchup recipes include 1/4-1/2 cup of dates, which per the book, is not in the spirit of the program. I was just curious as to why that would be ok. I'm a moderator on a very large Whole30 group, and when we tell them these recipes really aren't in the spirit of the program, as the book says, they then say they got it from this forum or a Whole30 endorsed source. It causes a lot of confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators SugarcubeOD Posted September 23, 2017 Moderators Share Posted September 23, 2017 From the way in interpret the whole paragraph about not inthe spirit of the Whole30 on the recipe page, is that they have already sweetened it with apple cider (not the vinegar) and that they COULD have put a bunch of dates in it to make it more Heinz-ish but that is not in the spirit of the Whole30... I can't comment on why it turned out like runny tomato colored vinegar, the ratios look okay to me but I would say half the vinegar and see how you like it and then change it up to taste. As far as sauces not being in the spirit of the Whole30, its often a gray area around trying to recreate things (SWYPO) or sweetening things so they taste the same as a storebought item... Dates are specifically called out as allowed in the making of sauces such as BBQ sauce or ketchup - I just think that passage is trying to say that dates AND cider is toeing the edge of the spirit... One or two to give a touch of sweetness is fine... 1/2 a cup of dates to an equal amount of tomato paste to make it super sweet is not fine... The thing I will say is that even tho people say they got things from the forum or a W30 endorsed source like the recipes page, the moderators and staff do our very level best to read every word written and make sure that everything is reflecting the spirit of the program... sometimes things slip through and that's just human nature but we definitely encourage people to really look at something they've found through the lens of how they think Melissa or one of us might see it and be honest with themselves about whether it's something better off left until after, even if they got it from here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraOC Posted September 23, 2017 Author Share Posted September 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, SugarcubeOD said: From the way in interpret the whole paragraph about not inthe spirit of the Whole30 on the recipe page, is that they have already sweetened it with apple cider (not the vinegar) and that they COULD have put a bunch of dates in it to make it more Heinz-ish but that is not in the spirit of the Whole30... I can't comment on why it turned out like runny tomato colored vinegar, the ratios look okay to me but I would say half the vinegar and see how you like it and then change it up to taste. As far as sauces not being in the spirit of the Whole30, its often a gray area around trying to recreate things (SWYPO) or sweetening things so they taste the same as a storebought item... Dates are specifically called out as allowed in the making of sauces such as BBQ sauce or ketchup - I just think that passage is trying to say that dates AND cider is toeing the edge of the spirit... One or two to give a touch of sweetness is fine... 1/2 a cup of dates to an equal amount of tomato paste to make it super sweet is not fine... The thing I will say is that even tho people say they got things from the forum or a W30 endorsed source like the recipes page, the moderators and staff do our very level best to read every word written and make sure that everything is reflecting the spirit of the program... sometimes things slip through and that's just human nature but we definitely encourage people to really look at something they've found through the lens of how they think Melissa or one of us might see it and be honest with themselves about whether it's something better off left until after, even if they got it from here.... Thank you so much for this perspective. I was coming up with blanks every time I tried to reason the date comment. I appreciate your thoughtful response! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura_juggles Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 The way it works in my head for a recipe like BBQ sauce or ketchup is like this: 1-2 dates is just enough to mellow the harshness of the vinegar and/or temper a spice like cayenne so the sauce is tasty but not dominated by one flavor component (like the vinegar) 1/3 cup dates or more is straight up making something sweet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraOC Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 1 minute ago, laura_juggles said: The way it works in my head for a recipe like BBQ sauce or ketchup is like this: 1-2 dates is just enough to mellow the harshness of the vinegar and/or temper a spice like cayenne so the sauce is tasty but not dominated by one flavor component (like the vinegar) 1/3 cup dates or more is straight up making something sweet Yes! Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitfor50andbeyond Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 I would only use a couple of tablespoons of the vinegar, 1/2 cup is just too much. And as for dates, a couple of those added will give it a sweeter taste of "ketchup". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hotwheels Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 On 9/17/2017 at 7:11 PM, ShannonM816 said: I have never made any of the whole30 ketchup recipes since the only things I really like it on are definitely not whole30, but I know this one from Well Fed 2 is compliant despite having a couple of dates in it: https://meljoulwan.com/2014/03/06/wf2-recipe-kickass-ketchup/ I definitely would avoid recipes that call for more than a couple of dates, but it has always been okay in the past to use a date or two or some other fruit for sweetening a sauce. Now, if by chance you find that when you have ketchup you find yourself craving other sweet things, you'd want to take a look at that, but that's more a matter of personal responsibility than of rules. This is the recipe I used over the weekend (Well Fed 2) and it came out very tasty. Only 2 dates, and it makes a lot. 2 tbs apple cider vinegar. 1/2 cup does seem like a lot of vinegar to me. I usually mix it with my homemade mayo and it makes a sauce that is good on almost anything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lgt2013 Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 On 16/09/2017 at 2:43 PM, LauraOC said: I have searched the forum & have not found an answer to this question. I also sent messages to Whole30 a while back, but haven't received a response. Hopefully someone here can advise me... I have been trying to make the Whole30 Ketchup recipe from the Whole30 book, The 30 Day Guide to Total Health and Food Freedom. [moderator edit - you cannot post copyrighted materials here] I made it as suggested twice. But the vinegar was SO overwhelming that's all we could taste & it was very runny. I had to add two more cans of tomato paste & more cider to balance it, and even then it was a strong vinegar flavor, but in a good way. Is the 1/2 cup a typo?? Also, it says "We could use date paste to make our sugary, but that's not really in line with the spirit of the Whole30. This ketchup will have more of a lighter vinegar flavor, different but still delicious on eggs, burgers, and baked potato "fries." The "lighter vinegar flavor" sounds like the 1/2 cup might be incorrect. Every other recipe I find has,a max of 4 Tbs to 1 cup tomato paste. ALSO... the dates. Every other recipe I come across fir Whole30 ketchup calls for dates, even here on the forum. I'm confused by the contrasting statement in the book & the sweet recipes I keep sing posted by Whole30 partners calling sweetened ketchup Whole30. Some call for a whopping 1/3-1/2 cup of dates! Any clarification is appreciated. Thanks! I just came across this recipe in the Whole30 book as well, and 1/2 cup of vinegar does seem like a lot. Has anyone had luck making this and reducing the amount of vinegar? I need an alternative to Tessemae's, it is soooo expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LauraOC Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 1 minute ago, lgt2013 said: I just came across this recipe in the Whole30 book as well, and 1/2 cup of vinegar does seem like a lot. Has anyone had luck making this and reducing the amount of vinegar? I need an alternative to Tessemae's, it is soooo expensive! I have made it several times since I first posted this. I backed it down to 3 TBS, then just added more to taste. It's very good, but again, don't expect Heinz. I also added some onion powder. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alliemcpherson Posted February 25, 2018 Share Posted February 25, 2018 Thank you guys so much for all these great links! I am brand-new! Info seems to be scattered everywhere though. Any comprehensive sources or is it all in the book? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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