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I think I'm understanding what it means to become fat adapted, but does your body give you a signal to let you know when that has happened?

Once you have become fat adapted, can you start eating less fat to force your body to burn stored fat? I don't mean to cut back so far that your body begins to burn carb again, but if you're eating more fat/protein than carb, and all your carb is nutrient-dense, can you take in fewer calories than your body needs in order to burn stored fat?

I shouldn't be worrying about this yet, because as I look back at my log, I think I'm eating more protein than fat, at least gram-wise, if not calorie-wise. Should probably up the fat for a few days rather than thinking about cutting back. Still, just wondering how that works.

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Why do you want to cut back on fat? We need fat, it helps us feel sated and if we are fat adapted we are using it for fuel. (It can be a longer process for some. But if you can go for a bunch of hours without getting panicky for food that's a sign you're getting there.)

Don't worry about cutting back on fat for the duration of your w30. Fat and the template are the keys to success. If you are still in 1980s CW fat-fear mode read again the fat section in ISWF or any of the "fat is good" posts online.

http://whole9life.co...t-loss-edition/

I ate tons of fat on my W30 and continue to eat in the mid- to upper level of rec'd fat intake (per the template) and I continue to get smaller--even though my exercise had been less than exemplary. Eating fewer calories than you need will only be self-sabotage at this point, creating stress, increasing cortisol, and thereby storing yet more fat.

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my understanding is that you will know you are adapting to using fat as energy when you are going for longer periods between meals/getting hungry. I have many times where I'm not hungry for 6 hours between meals.

as Beets said - don't cut back fat. and I would say don't EVER cut back on fat. it's not just about what your body is burning at the moment, it's about balancing hormones, etc. changing the way you eat is not a fast track solution for losing weight, it's a change in life that will allow your body to adjust to what is natural for it.

I understand how you feel, we are so ingrained in thinking that we need less to lose more, but the opposite is true. when you start to restrict it is self-sabotage just like Beets said. if you are at a point where you are not losing anything then look at the amount of fat you're eating and where you're getting it from, hang out at the lower end of the template, but do not go less than the template.

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Really, just follow the meal template guidelines about food and you will lose weight if you need to lose weight. You really can't improve your health or your chances of lasting weight loss by "adjusting" the recommendations, but you can make things harder.

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Thanks for the responses. I realize I should have worded the question differently.

I know better than to restrict fat below a certain point, and understand that the body needs fat. My hubby cured his high cholesterol by increasing the number of eggs and amount of red meat he was eating, much to the chagrin of the doctor who had told him to do the opposite. He can eat as much fat as he likes without gaining weight.

I do need to lose weight, though, so if I'm eating more fat than my body needs for fuel, the burning of stored fat will never need to kick in, right? And the excess fat I'm eating will also get stored? I only burn about 1350 calories a day, and I'm eating about 1600 a day right now, so that's why I questioned eating so much. I'm forcing myself to eat most of the time because I'm not hungry, although I'm hungry when I first get up in the morning.

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I'm sure other people have already said this to you and I cringe to even say it but stop with the calorie counting. it is a complete myth that "a calorie is a calorie is a calorie" - that's why calories in vs calories out has no place in a whole 9 world. you should have no idea how many calories you are consuming in a day. I know it's hard to let this go, but I hope you can try it for a while. and I'm not sure how you know exactly how many calories you are burning in a day -

your body will begin to let go of fat when it realizes it no longer needs to hold on to it - that it is getting enough fat in the diet and there is no starvation going on. as far as eating when you are not hungry - if you are truly not hungry I would suggest eating a smaller meal. on the lower end of the template. I believe once things begin to normalize a bit more (hormones, etc) I bet you will be more hungry. I have some days I could eat a horse, but there are other days when I just don't want to eat. can you spread meals out more? I found, too, that sometimes I don't feel hungry but it's my "scheduled" time to eat. if I wait about 1/2 hour I am suddenly starving...so I think my body just knows how long to hang out and then I can get into trouble because I'm not always prepared.

good luck!!! and stop counting those calories girl! I did that once to prove a point - I added up the grams of fat I had during lunch. it turned out to be about 60. that right there was about 550 calories - that's not including the calories from the carbs or protein. and that was one meal. I am 5'4" and I work out but not every day (3x a week). I have no idea how many calories I burn a day and I have no idea how many calories I eat a day but I do know I've lost over 25 lbs and 23", I was wearing a size 12 and just bought some size 6 shorts. (SHORTS! HOLY CRAP) :D:lol::P

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Yes. Please read the link I posted above. It goes into details as to why a calorie is not a calorie.

Counting calories is something you want to avoid to get the full benefit of your W30. Trust the process. Not everyone loses at the same rate, but I've lost about 25 lbs aince Feb (15 of which since my April w30) and almost two sizes--most of which time I was not counting, measuring or weighing, not calculating recipes or trying to pinpoint my exact right calorie intake. I also lost about 3" from my hips during my w30. (Just for reference I'd like to lose one more size. I'm a size 8 at 5'7". I know we arent focusing on the scale as the end-all be-all, but I just want to assure you you can lose without cutting/counting calories. And, as Jess said, calories --> weightloss a total misconception anyway. )

And ITA about hunger. Getting back in touch with hunger cues (v tallying calories) is one of the main goals of the W30. I have the same cycle of hungry/not hungry days. I definitely had days in the early w30 weeks where I wasn't hungry at all--but my hunger came back. :)

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You don't have to cut out good vege carbs and even a  reasonable fruit serving to become fat adapted.  It's best to eat fruit with a meal or tossed over your vege and proteins with your healthy fats but fat adaptation doesn't require seriously dialing it down and removing good vege carbs.   I've enjoyed berries in season, delicious apples, lemons, limes, grapefruit, oranges almost every single day.  It didn't ruin anything. 

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1 hour ago, JodiMac said:

Hello, I see this thread is quite old. Is it still active? If so ... I'd love some support on this. 

 

All of our threads stay "active" even if there hasn't been any activity on them.

What, specifically, are you looking for in terms of support related to fat adaptation?

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I am wondering about following my own cues with macro amounts. The Hartwigs say our bodies naturally tell us how much fat and protein we need to ingest. Carbs ... seems like a whole other story when you are trying to adapt to being a fat-burner. As  I am getting in tune with my body, what cues might I notice?

I did my first Whole30 for health: psoriasis, some eczema, joint pain, etc. I learned many beneficial things: My body doesn't like corn; I can't do preservatives and additives; wine makes me whine; I "might" have a gluten issue ... still in deliberation.  My 2nd and 3rd Whole30's were to get back to reality after holidays. 

Now I am trying to learn how to best tweak the Whole30 to my optimal needs. These include maintaining the above, plus the fact that after this past holiday season (which for me went from Halloween to Easter--rough winter in the Midwest!) I literally can't fit into many of my clothes for the first time in 10 years--uffda: no budget for new clothes, means that I need to create an 80/20 that bodes well for me year-round. But I didn't really indulge much over the holidays--a little extra sugar, but the primary additions were quick choices like plantain chips in palm oil and added dairy (which I seem to tolerate all right). Hmmm ...

Thanks for any ideas! 

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HI @JodiMac - carbs is slightly harder to determine however there are certain signs that will tell you if you don't have enough; irritability, anxiety, exhaustion etc are common. Our recommendation is to start with a fist-sized serving of starchy veggie each day. Increase from there if you are active, near or on your period or feeling any of the above symptoms. 

You can achieve fat adaptation, which is the body's ability to switch easily back and forth from fat to sugar burning, even by eating fruit and some starchy veggie every day. We're not looking to end up in nutritional ketosis which is ONLY fat burning and a totally different metabolic process. You just want to be able to switch easily back and forth.

That said, things like plantain chips are heavily carb-y and food with no brakes (not to mention disallowed on Whole30 unless you make them yourself without deep frying). These sorts of things are going to be the ones you want to put away. Eating a few baby potatoes or a piece of yam or some fruit isn't going to hurt you.

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This is very helpful. So following Whole30 is meant to get us switching back and forth from carb and sugar burning. Will we be able to do both with one meal? (Has Melissa discussed this is any of her books--I'm looking for further reading on this.)  I think I am overdoing the carbs then. I have a "regular person's" serving of carbs with every meal.

This a.m.: sausage, pumpkin seeds, and SEVERAL slices of apple

Noon: steak salad with greens, tomatoes, and roasted beets; Tessemae's lemon/garlic dressing

Plan for dinner: salmon, handful of roasted red potatoes, and green beans.

What do you think of that carb intake? I am semi-active. I am hoping to get back into a running routine this summer. (Building a house right now and so doing a lot of painting and last-minute running for things--occupying all my time.) But for the time being, I am lucky to get a brisk walk daily as part of errands.

Yes, the plantain chips weren't during a Whole30, and I suspect they were bogging me down a bit.

Thank you!

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No, you wouldn't be switching back and forth during every meal. The point is to be able to allow your body to continue to access fuel even when food is not forthcoming. If you can only burn carbs for fuel, you have to refill with carbs every 2-3 hours. When you are fat adapted you should be able to go 4-5 hours between meals - longer for most of us as we get used to it. 

You don't want your starchy veggies or fruits to push other veggies off your plate but it's really up to how you feel. As I mentioned above, you need to assess yourself and see how you're feeling with more and how you're feeling with less. Our recommendation is to start with one fist-sized serving per day and the general consensus is that the best timing for many people is at the third meal. Experiment and see how it goes if you reduce starchy veggies to once a day and see how you feel when you have them more often.

That all said, each meal is recommended to be composed according to the meal template. That means your breakfast is lacking in veggies and more than likely lacking in protein and fat as well. Was your sausage serving equivalent to your palm width, length and thickness? Seeds and nuts are recommended to be limited so think a closed handful once every other day or so.

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