SWYPO.. but maybe not?

[Sylwia Zygalo]

I was thinking of making a beef stir-fry but my body is just not craving any type of meat at the moment. I was feeling very nauseaus most of the day and the thought of my leftover dinner for lunch nearly made me hurl. I decided to do little digging and found a recipe for ingredient compliant Paleo pancakes. Now, I have read the manifesto and I understand the dangers of "replicating" your unhealthy meals, but it also says: "For example, the amazing fried chicken in Paleo Comfort Foods is a perfectly appropriate (and delicious) dinner choice while on your Whole30. However, if you're coming off a wicked addiction to KFC, perhaps Jules & Charles' creation isn't the best choice for you during your program. Make sense?"

The issue I have is that prior to starting Whole30, I never actually ate or craved pancakes. I might have had them once a year, if that. I actually very rarely ate any type of baked goods like muffins or croissants, etc. I would make an exception if I went to Paris, ("when in Rome").

As I mentioned in my introductory post, 10 years ago I lost 100lbs, not by dieting but by eating whole, nutritious foods and by doing so had re-wired my brain to crave those foods on a regular basis. My main goal with Whole30 is to break my daily red wine habit, and to lose a few lbs or re-shape my body from the last few years of increased drinking and slight slack in diet. Do you think I'm still breaking the rules somehow even if I'm making something like pancakes, without having had an addiction to pancakes or baked goods?

[Guest]

It is such a tough call. I'd wonder, though, if you're not feeling like eating and you want to reach for a pancake in this moment, maybe there is a sugar dragon or a food-is-comfort dragon somewhere inside.

I'd go savoury...maybe more fritter-ish...but I love me some trips to Paris and Rome.

Feel better!

[Melissa Urban]

Sylwia,

There are some foods that are simply out of bounds for the Whole30 (per the rules) for everyone. Baked goods (muffins, brownies, cookies), pancakes, and "ice creams" are a few examples, whether or not you've ever had cravings or "addictions" to those foods.

These are the most common "foods with no brakes" - and given the parameters of the Whole30, are more likely to CREATE new cravings and bad habits than not, even while on the program. So, to answer your question, pancakes are out for everyone, all the time, as specified in the rules.

You might find that Paleo pancakes are a totally acceptable food outside of your Whole30 - that you can eat them once in a while without inducing cravings or bad habits. If so, fantastic! But wait until your program is over before you start playing around with Paleo-fied foods like this. In the meantime, explore more nutrient-dense breakfast options. Salmon with avocado and honeydew melon is a favorite of mine - not too heavy, and super nutrient-dense.

Best,

Melissa

[Susan W]

Sylwia, the first thing I do when doing the SWYPO test is ask myself if the item fits the meal template and psychologically does it fit my mental meal template.

You haven't said why you might think you are feeling nautious, but here are some items that I find comforting and energizing when I am feeling off. Soups..Melissa posted an awesome Tom Gha Gai on FB. I have already had it 3 times. It is so flavorful and has ginger, lime kaffir and lemongrass in a coconut broth. I also seem to enjoy poached eggs on sweet potato, cauli mash or riced cauli. Ground beef with mushrooms and zucchini noodles and coconut aminos with a little coconut milk topped with avocado. This would be a great time for some bone broth. So many comforting food choices but you will find your favorites.

Hope you feel better soon.

[Derval]

Susan , could you link to that soup for me pls?

[Susan W]

Susan , could you link to that soup for me pls?

You know, let me see if I can find it on their page. It's WAY down my newsfeed but I copied it into my W30 journal so I will pm it to you if I cant find it.

[Sylwia Zygalo]

@Melissa

I guess I have a hard time understanding why I can separately eat an egg, a banana and olive oil, but somehow could not mix the three as a meal. I do see what you're saying, in that it's a habit forming meal. I don't want to be coming home and making pancakes every night, but at the same time I truly don't see myself actually doing that having come a long way on my journey thus far.

However, I have committed to this program and am only on day 4. I'm willing to see it through smoothie and pancakeless, and am looking forward to what the experiment will reveal.

@Susan + Nico

I made turkey salad last night with avocado, lime and tomatoes, and although it might sound tasty.. it made my stomach turn. I don't know what it was but it definitely did not sit well with me. I'm normally a weekend meateater, so maybe suddenly switching to a daily diet of meat is stirring my stomach a bit. I mentally went through a list of foods I could actually eat without feeling nauseous as I visualised them, and those pancakes came in #1. I have since started feeling better, and am going to give this recipe a go tonight: http://www.thewednes...d-tomatoes.html

The soup also sounds very good, though. I think I just need to sit down this weekend and collect a bunch of "staple" recipes of foods that I can eat and will enjoy.

Thanks, ladies.

[Jinkse21]

I think if you approach eating the egg, a banana and olive oil as "pancakes", you are Paleofying them which is off limits during your Whole30. If you look at make round, flat things as an alternative way to prepare an egg, a banana and olive oil, I would think it's fine. On Whole30, people make mashed cauliflower and cauliflower "rice" which fall under the different ways to prepare cauliflower category but for some people, those may be off limits because the "rice" reminds them too much of rice or cous cous and the mashed cauliflower reminds them of real mashed potatoes to the point where the craving for them makes it difficult to really be successful in completing a Whole30. I made the "rice" before and it was really good but I found myself wanting real rice so I haven't made it since. I still make the mashed cauli but as an alternative way to eat cauliflower instead of steamed or oven-roasted.

That's just my 2 cents.

[Susan W]

Sylwia, coming up with some doable recipes is so key. You'll get there.

[Kirsteen]

I'm normally a weekend meateater, so maybe suddenly switching to a daily diet of meat is stirring my stomach a bit.

If you don't normally eat a lot of meat, taking digestive enzymes can really help the stomach get used to the sudden increase in it. Also this blog post http://whole9life.com/2011/02/eating-meat-a-primer-for-the-meat-challenged/ suggests ways of eating meat if you're not really used to it. good luck

[Guest]

Derval, are you on Facebook? You will find it in the Whole30 photos from a few days ago. You'll also see a yummy cucumber sandwich.

[Susan W]

Derval, are you on Facebook? You will find it in the Whole30 photos from a few days ago. You'll also see a yummy cucumber sandwich.

It's on their newsfeed on May 23rd. I sent it to Derval, but that is how I found it. Google told me it was on May 23rd. So cool.

[Guest]

I find their feed a little bit of a challenge to navigate, so I click on the pictures to find things. (I do the same with George Takei.) I saw it at the end of the third or fourth row. (I'm not on a phone, though.)

[Susan W]

Oh thats a good idea. I actually fired up my laptop. Navigating FB with an app is a little bit like Tapatalk. You just miss some things. I just typed in Whole 9 Tom Kah Gai in Google and it pulled it right up. I actually had no idea Google could find stuff on FB. I should have known better.

[Guest]

I use google for three-letter words on here. I type: fat site:whole9life.com

Insert any three letter word or combo of words and you get nice results.

You and me, Susan. We've got this internet thing figured out!

[Susan W]

I use google for three-letter words on here. I type: fat site:whole9life.com

Insert any three letter word or combo of words and you get nice results.

You and me, Susan. We've got this internet thing figured out!

Nico...genius to use Google for that. I have driven myself crazy looking for 3 letter words. Do we have too much time on our hands? ;0)

[Moluv]

There is a recipe on here created by mod Johnny called "chicken rancheros tostadas" where the tostada is made from puréed plantains and oil, they are delicious and have somehow escaped the nefarious SWYPO label. The tostadas are not a meal in themselves but may make a nice vessel for some meat for you.

[pjena]

The tostadas are wonderful! I make a double batch and freeze them to have a quick easy base for any type of meal when I'm in a hurry.

Swylia - I 2nd Kirsteen's suggestion of enzymes. I had issues until I started taking HCL, which helps digest meat. I have felt better since.

[Moluv]

I used to think it was splitting hairs too. I did not paleofy at all during my w60ish thing at all. Now that I'm a couple months post, it finally starts to make sense. My relationship to food changed profoundly and it happened because I ate (mostly) 3 meals a day of lots of veggies and meats and fats. Nothing else. I spent no energy recreating anything. What I saw on my plate was all recognizable as what it was in its original form. That created a habit and a pattern for feeding myself that even now, in my offroading, I deviate little from.

If nothing sounds good, I honestly think eating a banana works better than a banana pancake. You don't have to eat meat at every meal either. That is a suggestion, not a rule.

And FWIW I think the plantain tostada is totally SWYPO and I am glad it was after my w30 that I started making them.

[Sylwia Zygalo]

@Moluv

Thanks for chiming in. I guess my question to that is, why does it need to be recognisable and in its original form if optimum nutrition is still achieved? Is a banana and an egg mixed together and cooked not the same nutritionally as a banana and an egg separately? I'd like to know why it makes sense for you now after two months, and why you think that eating a banana is better than a banana pancake when a banana pancake is three compliant ingredients: banana + egg + olive oil.

I understand that pancakes might remind me of the real thing and induce a craving for real pancakes, but as I said previously I never ate pancakes and generally my diet previous to this consisted of rarely eating anything with "no brakes". I suppose I just see those three ingredients as the same in my belly.

I'm not fighting for justification to include pancakes into this diet (I'm eating eggs and an asparagus scramble as I write), but I'm genuinely curious as to the reasons behind some of these limits. I'm looking for clarification so that I can follow this program understanding why something is a certain way, rather than following it because "those are the rules".

[melbournegirl]

I'm with Moluv, my first whole30 I made pancakey things as post WO snacks and joined a long debate as to whether they were swypo etc. and had coconut cream on frozen berries.... I'm now on my third whole30 and stuff like that doesn't even hit my radar.....

The rules are clear (thanks to Melissa) but navigating them isn't always.

Reaching for that type of food and trying to justify it does imply there are some behaviours you may want or need to change to be really successful.... But hey, baby steps...... And at the end of the day you decide whether you completed the whole30 successfully or not.

Btw my original justification for the post WO "protein discs" was their portability. But now I am so much better at this I take a boiled egg instead, don't know why I didn't think they were portable before except the obvious reason... Just needed to shape new habits and behaviours.

Good luck with your whole30

[Sylwia Zygalo]

@Juzbo

You're right in that the rules are clear, but some of the logic for me is not. I'm going pancakeless as I committed to the program, but the questions I expressed to Moluv are still there.

I've sat down this afternoon to make an effort in researching compliant recipes that I know would work for me, and found this in the Whole9 blog: http://whole9life.co...-cashew-hummus/

Now, cashews are a compliant ingredient, but would using them to recreate a popular "no breaks" dip not break the rules? Some of my friends constantly joke about how "hummus is their heroin" and it's been noted as a healthy food for those who can stop eating it. The recipe also calls for tahini, which is made of sesame seeds and is listed as a limited food. So, yes. Thus my confusion persists!

[Beets]

Like Moluv said, this isn't about a parsing out a logic equation, a + b = c where a and b are compliant but c is not. This is about changing habits and getting to the point where eating meat + veg + fat becomes a habit.

In the beginning I felt like I needed a lettuce "taco" to eat my Mexican pulled pork. Now I just mix it all together and don't need a "taco" of any sort. It's about habits of mind, not loopholes and split hairs.

If that doesn't work for you and you decide you want a tostado and it doesn't push veggies off your plate (which it has to, being that your stomach can hold a finite quantity) or make you crave more tostados, then go for it.

Personally I never made a sweet potato "fritter" because it sounds like more trouble than it's worth and I'd rather eat a pile of nutrient-dense brisket and sautéed cabbage. I tried making sweet pot pancakes for my kids and only ended up fuming mad when, 20 minutes later, I had a skillet full of mush, two wasted $9/dozen pastured eggs and two hungry kids.

Point being: there is way better stuff to be eating than sweet potato pancakes, fritters or any other cake-like amalgam of compliant ingredients.

And re the cashew dip: "We dipped all of our veggies in the spread, and deemed it a delicious once-in-a-while treat.**Once in a while because it's a dense source of fat, and as easy to over-eat as any other nut or nut butter."

[Moluv]

@Moluv

Thanks for chiming in. I guess my question to that is, why does it need to be recognisable and in its original form if optimum nutrition is still achieved? Is a banana and an egg mixed together and cooked not the same nutritionally as a banana and an egg separately? I'd like to know why it makes sense for you now after two months, and why you think that eating a banana is better than a banana pancake when a banana pancake is three compliant ingredients: banana + egg + olive oil.

I think nutritionally it is the same. Psychologically, it is not. The blended ingredients do become a pancake, or fritter, or whatever you want to call it. You don't look at that golden disc on your plate and say eggs + banana + oil, it just becomes a pancake. Same with Johnny's tostadas IMO. When I ate those (post w30) my brain said "omg, omg, I'm dying of excitement because I'm eating a taco" It was the chewy breadlike texture, the carmelization, the oiliness, it just wasn't a good idea. And I recognized it immediately. Only because I spent two months eating nothing that resembled a taco. So as soon as I was back in taco land, by brain knew it was something to be cautious of. When a nutritionist first suggested I avoid grains 2 years ago, I could hardly wrap my brain around the concept of lunch without a sandwhich, or a wrap. Or a dip without a chip. I eventually did go off gluten and then ate more rice bread and corn chips. I thought I was a pretty healthy eater, but I still had weird cravings or maybe an occasional time where I ate more than I wanted. Doing the w30 (60 for me) totally broke me of any notion of sandwhich, burrito, baked goods, muffins, chips, all of that stuff. And it was because I followed the template very rigorously for that entire time. There was an element of blind faith in that (and the no smoothies rule) but in hindsight I can see that it helped me. Now, I have argued about the logic of these rules, sometimes just to be devil's advocate, especially when I see inconsistency in the answer to a particular food. For example, just a few days ago, Melissa gave the go ahead on a cauliflower egg taco shell stating that it was nut/coconut flours that were really the problem. So taking her answer on that food, would give you a yes on your banana pancake. So I see your frustration in the holes in the logic. I also felt like pureed soups were always allowed, while smoothies were not and that didn't make sense if the reasoning behind it was don't drink your food. Point being, make a rule, stick it out for every scenario, don't waffle.

I suppose why I said just eat a banana is that psychologically, you peel a banana, you hold it in your hand and eat it, it's just a banana now and forever. Good psychological response. You start putting bananas in blenders though, and it morphs (in the mind, not the belly) into other foods that you want to learn to live without. For a month.

[Castle]

I think nutritionally it is the same. Psychologically, it is not.

This. I've had cravings for all kinds of things on my W30s, from things I love (i.e. pasta) and things I've never had before (i.e. blueberry pie). Could I make spaghetti squash with marinara and meatballs, or an acorn squash with blueberries and coconut butter? Yes, and it would be technically W30 approved. However, if I did so it would just be feeding the craving and reinforcing the bad habit, which goes counter to the entire reason that I do W30s. On those occasions I just eat a filling meal that is 100% different than what I'm craving - savory instead of sweet, rough texture instead of creamy, etc.

Honestly, baked goods don't really translate all that well into Paleo/Primal, both in terms of how they turn out and in terms of how they fit in with the way of living. In the case of the pancake, I'd just wait until you're post-W30 and have the real thing.