LindaLee Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 This Whole30 attempt (which is now a success since I'm at day 30!) has been unlike any Paleo or Whole30 time I've had before. Since I gave up gluten and started going primarily Paleo, my gut has never been happier - most of the digestive issues I had while eating SAD went down the drain (pun intended, LOL). Then...I had two months of ice cream practically every night, then a good month (Paleo challenge), then two more really bad ice cream months. During this Whole30, I have had many more digestive issues - bloating, stomach pain, really sluggish weight loss, overall fatigue - which, given my research, might be related to candida overgrowth during my sugar/fat binges that are now dying off. Others suggested digestive enzymes to help with the bloating and stomach pain; I have some and tried them but I took one an hour or so after my meal (instead of with it) yesterday and it just about killed me. Horrible stomach pain and bloating. What I've read said this takes about three to six months to die off, so I'm ready to be patient (my Whole30 is now a Whole55). It also suggested trying probiotics. I don't want to keep changing things because I won't know what's working, but I really cannot stand the bloating and tummy pain - bad for the workouts, too! So, just wanting some thoughts about digestive enzymes versus probiotics (or both), what everyone's thoughts are about that, and if this is something you end up taking forever or just until things get balanced out. I wish I could just eat fermented stuff, but sauerkraut makes me gag and I can't afford to have kombucha every day. As always, thanks in advance for any advice you can offer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Oh, forgot to add my current supplements: I take: Lurong Living Essential (red deer antler velvet for my joints), StrongerFasterHealthier fish oil with vitamin D3 (two teaspoons at night), and Curamin (cucurmin and boswellia, as needed for back pain). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tom Denham Posted June 23, 2013 Moderators Share Posted June 23, 2013 Eating foods rich in probiotics is a good thing to do permanently. I hear that you don't like sauerkraut, but I wonder if you have tried good sauerkraut. I can stand to eat almost anything, but Bubbie's makes really good sauerkraut in my opinion. Lately, I am eating cold Bubbie's sauerkraut as a side to scrambled eggs and hot sauce for breakfast every morning. If you don't like sauerkraut, have you tried kimchi. They are similar, but taste different. My local Whole Foods has been selling a mild and a moderate heat kimchi lately and I like both. Some people take two days to drink a 16-ounce bottle of kombucha, so you might try that. And I hear that making kombucha at home is relatively easy. I don't make my own, but have heard from others on the forum that do. You should not have problems from digestive enzymes if you take them with a meal. Taking digestive enzymes an hour after eating is a really bad idea. The digestive enzymes support making food break down and when you take them an hour after food, they have little to work with and their energy is expended on your stomach instead. I've collected a handful of links about probiotics, digestive enzymes, and supplements that you might want to read through... http://whole9life.com/2010/08/whole9-supplement-evaluation-checklist/http://whole9life.com/2010/09/supplements-part-ii/http://whole9life.com/2012/04/probiotics-101/http://whole9life.com/2012/09/digestive-enzymes-101/http://chriskresser.com/calcium-supplements-why-you-should-think-twiceMy favorite site for checking out any supplement: http://examine.com/supplements/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnymama Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 With the same goals in mind (fixing gut health and killing candida if I have overgrowth) here's what I do: Raw Garlic:I take a clove of garlic three times a week (Mon., Wed., Fri.) I started out taking it every morning and cut back because I felt ill and had no way to confirm if that was die-off or just too much garlic. Also, being a bit of a priss, I have this fear of smelling like garlic. So I cut back to an easy to remember regimen of Mon.-Wed.-Fri. I simply cut the garlic clove up into small pieces, let it sit 10 or 15 minutes so the potent stuff can form, and then swallow with water like a pill. Don't bother taking it unless you've let it sit out a bit or it's a waste. Cheap and completely natural/raw. You will find a lot of info about garlic and candida online. Garlic is extremely powerful from what I've read so please read all about it and make sure it's okay for you before taking. I am a big fan of holistic solutions but am in no way a professional, just a learner . Gelatin: I use Great Lakes gelatin to, I hope, help heal my gut. I first read about the benefits of gelatin in Practical Paleo a year or so ago. Many people make gummy treats and take but I am trying to slay a Sugar Dragon and don't want any candy-like items around so I take two tablespoons of gelatin twice a day in a kale smoothie/drink or simply dissolved in warm water (it has no taste). I don't really like soup in the warm months but use it a lot in broths as well in the fall and winter. You can find a lot of info about gelatin and gut health online also, and Wellness Mama has several recipes on her site. Probiotic: I am not sold on this at all and while I am finishing a bottle I bought at the beginning of my Whole30, I will not be buying anymore. And that is just my preference I have no science to back that up. The more I thought about it, the more I thought how can living bacteria survive the shipping from manufacturer to retailer and then to consumer. Food: I did not even know what sauerkraut was until about six months ago. And being sort of a food sissy (not very adventurous) I thought I was going to have to swallow it like a pill instead of chew it. I was very wrong. It's quite good, amazing with eggs or any meat or fish, and I echo Tom's question that maybe what you've had isn't good. But if kraut really isn't an option how about pickles made the fermented way? Do you have farmers markets in your area? There may be a fermented foods vendor there. If so they will likely have pickles, which will be probiotic, as will the juice, and you can drink a little each day as well as put it on all sorts of foods--tuna salad, any meat, toss veggies in it, etc. If you are by any chance in the Washington D.C. area I very highly recommend this local group and I am not affiliated other than being a grateful customer! http://www.number1sons.com/ Then there is kimchi as Tom also mentioned which I have not had the nerve to try yet. I'd pull up one of those Top Ten Fermented Foods lists and see what you can find that you like as I really believe bad food screwed up our guts and good food can fix it. Edited to add: Braggs Apple Cider Vinegar! Can't believe I forgot this! Drink daily diluted with water, it's an acquired taste but I actually like it now and I swear my gut feels so much better with it. GInger in any form but one is tea, is another "supplement" you can use/make a part of your life. I don't love ginger the way some people do but I do believe in it's benefits and drink either it or diluted Braggs ACV daily. (just make sure you use real ginger to make your own tea...not the little pre-made teabags in the store.) If I think of anything else I'll post back and if you have any good tips you learn please share also. Best of luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Those are great ideas, Tom and Sunnymama! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 PS - Tom, you are so right, taking the enzymes after the meal WAS a really, really bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 Wait, pickles are fermented?? I love pickles...I could eat pickles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnymama Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Wait, pickles are fermented?? I love pickles...I could eat pickles. ^^Not all pickles, they have to be specifically fermented. I also love pickles and Could. Not. Believe. how much better fermented pickles are compared to the usual stuff we buy at the grocery store. Not to mention the probiotic benefits! I am so loyal to my fermented foods vendor at my farmers market that I've never even looked at the store so I don't know if they are sold in places like Whole Foods, etc. If I were you I would google fermented foods in Dallas or wherever you live and see what comes up. If nothing, ASK. Health store people love to talk fermented foods. Like I mentioned in my original post, it's really a great purchase too because you can not only enjoy the pickles but the juice is so good for you too. I hope you are able to find some in your area! These FAQ's might be interesting to you. http://www.number1sons.com/#!faq/c704 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted June 23, 2013 Author Share Posted June 23, 2013 I live about 90 miles from St. Louis, in a very small (less than 1500 people) town and the nearest large town (about 15,000) isn't known for its WholeFoods-type products, but most things are available online - including Bubbie's, apparently! I can get them at Vitacost, which I really like - they also have the Jarrow brand probiotics mentioned in the article Tom recommended. Thank you so much for the great advice. Tom, the article also is fantastic - I especially appreciate the author's advice to START SLOW, with a teaspoon a day. I think I'll start out with the pickles and relish and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmyS Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 FYI, I just started digestive enzymes, I take one about halfway through each meal. They have been aaaamaaaaaazing for me. I can't believe I resisted taking them for MONTHS. You can really feel them working so yeah, I can imagine that taking them an hour after eating would not be pretty. I do recommend that you try them again with your meal. I'm doing a Whole30 right now after taking off for a vacation, during which any healthy food that crossed my lips did so by pure accident. (Note: It was a great two weeks, but I was really ready to come home to healthy eating!) So I know whereof you speak in terms of the increased bloating, etc. after eating that way for a while. Really, do give the digestive enzymes another, err, go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 Eating foods rich in probiotics is a good thing to do permanently. I hear that you don't like sauerkraut, but I wonder if you have tried good sauerkraut. I can stand to eat almost anything, but Bubbie's makes really good sauerkraut in my opinion. Lately, I am eating cold Bubbie's sauerkraut as a side to scrambled eggs and hot sauce for breakfast every morning. If you don't like sauerkraut, have you tried kimchi. They are similar, but taste different. My local Whole Foods has been selling a mild and a moderate heat kimchi lately and I like both. Tom - wanted to let you know that I'm still shy about sauerkraut, so I ordered some of Bubbie's naturally fermented pickle relish and dill pickles. I heeded the advice of the one article about introducing fermented foods and probiotics slowly, so I just had a teaspoon of the pickle relish with my turkey burger. YUMMY!!!! I got some probiotics too, again based on the article you linked - Jarrow's brand. I got this particular one because it's a pretty high dose, but I can break open the capsule and put part of it in water or some other liquid (which for me means either water or tea, since that's all I drink, LOL). Thank you again for all the good advice and guidance. I'll keep you posted. I had a couple of days of ice cream after dinner, so I had a bit of a setback, but am committed now to 60 days of sugar-free-ness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souvenirdarling Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I have used a capsule of "probiotic" supplement to start "coconut milk yoghurt", for lack of a better word. I used the method in the link below, mostly because I wanted something yogurt-like as a flexible snack and also to preserve my coconut milk for a longer period of time. Bonus, it didn't make the coconut milk sour, like kefir milk is. http://nomnompaleo.com/post/45263391503/paleo-plans-simple-coconut-milk-yogurt The probiotic capsule supplements are pricey, but I believe once you have a coghurt started, you can use it to start the next batch. Just an idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnymama Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Regarding digestive healing...did you see the FODMAP shopping list..I'm finding it helpful and even cut out garlic just to follow the rules for the time being. http://whole9life.com/2013/06/expanded-iswf-shopping-lists/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bet Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I will have to try the Bubbies. I really don't like fermented food. I can't eat Kimchi. I do take probiotics and the pearls that work well in the colon. In addition to digestive enzymes, I take HCL which helps break down protein. I think keeping your stomach acid level up helps in defeating any kind of infection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailrunner87 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hi LindaLee - thanks for your post! I have a diagnosed issue with candida overgrowth and my holistic doctor just prescribed me Nystatin powder to kill it. I decided to do a whole 30, starting last Friday, because I knew I would need extra reasons to not eat the stuff I can't eat while taking Nystatin. Nystatin is extremely effective when taken orally, and kills yeast from the inside out. However, you can't eat sugar or gluten while taking it, essentially leaving you with an ideal paleo diet (fruit is very limited too!), or you will have a bad reaction - i.e. rashes, stomach upset, nausea, etc. I also had to give up coffee to take it which was so difficult but has gotten easier. I have had a stomach ache for the last few days of this Whole 30 session (this is day 6 for me), and I was baffled as to why this is. Of course, I've been on the Nystatin for a few days, and your post reminded me that this stomach ache and other symptoms come from candida die-off. It's silly but you just don't think clearly when you're trying to clear your system of toxins. I also noticed that I visibly didn't appear to be losing any weight or inches by this morning, despite getting 8+ hours of sleep/ night, drinking water, and eating well. This post also reminded me that this could be the candida die -off. I was told when this yeast was dying off to take a very strong probiotic along with it. The doctor didn't recommend anything else, other than dietary changes, and I've had apparent success with simply adding a probiotic and sticking to the Whole 30 plan. I take the Garden of Life brand probiotics because the man who developed them has detailed on his website and in a Dave Asprey podcast recently how he formulates the probiotics. The shelfed probiotics at a grocery store will most likely not be strong enough to fight against candida die-off and ones that are formulated carefully, such as the Garden of Life brand, have a much higher chance of fighting this candida problem. Another suggestion is Mark Sisson's probiotic. I haven't tried it, but he is very effective at developing high quality products so it would be worth a try. I stopped buying Kimchi for a few reasons, I like the flavor but sometimes fermented vegetables can have a negative effect on someone with leaky gut syndrome. I don't know about you, but I have intestinal permeability problems; again, this was confirmed by my doctor. I can't remember where I placed the study on this, but I remember reading it. I don't doubt it's highly effective, but you may want to look that up if you have trouble digesting kimchi. Sometimes the risks outweigh the benefits. Finally, a good read on the effects of yeast on a body is The Yeast Connection by William Crook. It's an eye opener, and very simple read. I now know the yeast overgrowth was the main reason I wasn't losing much weight on Paleo before now. Good luck and again, thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renman23 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 If i can add my vote for Kimchi... an acquired taste but delicious. AND if you live in a city you may be able to find a local source. There are a couple of restaurants here in Phila where i get good Authentic Korean Kimchi... Good and good for you. knocks a cold right out of my system!!! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole Lynn Jennings Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 How is it going for you? I believe I have candida overgrowth as well because of my acne and digestion problems. I recently started drinking acv and taking probiotics. I already eat almost no carbs and lots of healthy fats. I'm curious to see how this is going for you! any improvements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole Lynn Jennings Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 I also found this article: http://www.foodmatters.tv/articles-1/how-to-overcome-candida-naturally. Is this article worth anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 I have a question about this - I've been taking the NOW digestive enzymes for a month or so, pretty regularly. I also have the Jarrow probiotics recommended in the Whole9 blog. Do you take both or just one or the other, or...? The Bubbie's pickle relish is still amazing, by the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bet Posted September 8, 2013 Share Posted September 8, 2013 The both do different things. The enzymes work in your stomach to help digest the food so it can move into the small intestines. The probiotics work in the intestines. So take both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindaLee Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Okey doke! First go with the probiotics today...we'll see what happens. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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