Macronutrient ratios/grams

[Chris74]

Can I get an idea of what the Whole30 daily "menu" aims to give with respect to Protein/Fat/Carbs per day.  Unacceptable answers include "veggies differ", "proteins differ", "i did my first WOD this morning", "as long as you don't eat soy everything will be okay", etc.... 

 

What is the aim for those ratios/grams per day?

 

thanks in advance

[annabel]

I know this isn't the answer that you want to hear, but one aim of the W30 is to steer you away from counting and analysing your food to that sort of degree.  And honestly, it's not rocket science, and it does all work out if you're eating according to the template: http://whole9life.com/book/ISWF-Meal-Planning-Template.pdf  Where most people tend to go wrong is that they don't fill their plates with veg or skimp on fats, often because losing weight is too big of a focus.

 

But... Mark's Daily Apple has some really in depth posts talking about nutrients from a primal perspective. And he does break down a sample day's worth of meals. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-sample-menu/#axzz2ZhOT7jzZ

[Chris74]

I know this isn't the answer that you want to hear, but one aim of the W30 is to steer you away from counting and analysing your food to that sort of degree.  And honestly, it's not rocket science, and it does all work out if you're eating according to the template: http://whole9life.com/book/ISWF-Meal-Planning-Template.pdf  Where most people tend to go wrong is that they don't fill their plates with veg or skimp on fats, often because losing weight is too big of a focus.

 

But... Mark's Daily Apple has some really in depth posts talking about nutrients from a primal perspective. And he does break down a sample day's worth of meals. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-sample-menu/#axzz2ZhOT7jzZ

 

You're right this isn't the answer I was looking for.  I  know what I need, I am asking "what the aimed outcome from the Whole30 persepective is"  I don't mean to sound testy but this is exactly the response I didn't want, 20 people who think "losing weight" is actually a goal.... losing fat sure, gaining lean mass sure.  If you're serious about adding lean mass, maconutrients certainly are a major deal and I don't think should be grouped into counting calories.

 

Also, the Whole30 and MDA aren't asscociated with each other, so basing one to justify the other is again not answering my question.  Again, I know what ratios I need to hit, I wanted to know what the Whole30 interworkings work out to:  3 meals with 3 proteins that probably add up to about 90g?  That's much lower than I what I have had real world positive experience with concerning adding lean mass, 22 days in and I've definitely lost muscle.

[notacommittee]

I know this isn't the answer that you want to hear, but one aim of the W30 is to steer you away from counting and analysing your food to that sort of degree. 

 

Yes!

 

Think of it this way: your body has a much, much more sensitive system for telling you how much of [macro/micro-nutrient X] it wants than ANY calculator, study, or RDA can give you. You have an innate signalling system that blows those super-general mechanisms completely out of the water. The aim of the W30 eating plan is to get you eating foods that do not mess with this innate system, so you can start to listen to your own body and understand what it wants. It's not about just giving you a different set of generalized guidelines; it's about giving you the tools to find your own personal balance.

 

So the aim is...whatever you personally need, as explained to you by your own body. If you're trying to introduce an outside regulation of X grams of protein/carbs/fat/etc., you're missing the point.

[Chris74]

Is anyone reading my question????

 

BTW, the whole30 lists a template:  http://whole9life.com/book/ISWF-Meal-Planning-Template.pdf  

black and white "3 meals, 1-2 palm sized proteins" now WHAT IN THE MIND OF THE WHOLE30 PEOPLE/ADMINS does the protein ratio look like at the end of the day?  

 

I have bodyfat in the teens.... maybe had a donut in 2008.... I am not looking for a preachy answer to the wholistic wonderful innate system that's working SO WELL for American these days.... my question is a question about what the ADMINS feel are the ratios that a whole30 meals works it self out to in a day.  

[notacommittee]

This is what I see happening in this thread:

 

Chris74: what does the smell of roses feel like?

Everyone else: it doesn't feel like anything; it's a smell.

Chris74: but what does it feel like?

Everyone else: It's a smell! It doesn't feel like anything!

Chris74: is anyone reading my question? What does it feel like?

Everyone else: IT DOESN'T FEEL. IT'S A SMELL.

Everyone in the thread: *combusts from frustration*

 

Chris, it seems like this is really frustrating to you, and I understand it must be obnoxious to constantly be getting answers that seem to miss the point, but...I think you're trying to understand the W30 with the wrong mental framework.

 

A more effective approach for you if you're totally married to the counting grams of protein/fat/carbs thing might be to apply that framework to the W30 food list. Which is not the W30 program, but still a healthy way of eating if it works for you.

[GFChris]

Since Dallas and Melissa Hartwig created Whole30, why don't you ask them? Their email is [email protected]

[Tom Denham]

Chris74 - I hear that you want an answer along the lines of 30 percent protein/50 percent fat/20 percent carbs, etc, but no such answer exists for the Whole30 because such formulas suck.

 

Let me explain why they suck.

 

1. Every body is different. Even if you are talking about athletes, some need more protein, some need less. Some need more carbs, some need less. The ideal ratio for your body depends upon your gender, age, fitness level, training load, sleep quality and volume, stress levels, hormonal rhythms, amount of sunshine you get, body fat, muscle mass, and probably 16 other things.

 

2. The most accurate method to eat the right amount of protein, fat, and carbs is to follow the meal template guidelines while paying attention to how you feel and perform. With practice, you develop skill and recognize when you need to eat more protein, more carbs, more fat. Eat more when you are hungry, eat less when you are satisfied. Honestly, you learn to eat more protein when you feel hungry after lifting heavy weights, to eat more carbs when you are running and need more energy, to eat more fat when you get hungry too early before your next meal.

 

3. Measuring your food, counting calories, calculating ratios disturbs the normal rhythms of your body. Literally, people who expend effort trying to hit the right ratios, calorie intake, etc. often stall in weight loss efforts. When they stop counting and measuring, they start moving again. We have seen it 1000s of times.

 

If you want someone to tell you how many grams of protein, fat, and carbs you should eat each day, you are in the wrong place. We don't do that here.

[Chris74]

Lol hs

Of all that is holy there is a template but are the suggested portions completely aarbitrary?

If you follow the template that I assume has some backing then what would be the outcome in the whole30s oponion?

What I get is no one wants to understand the under lying mechanics or where these

Suggested portions come from, just do it right? Keyes just told us to lower our

Cholesterol, just do it. Unreal that people don't want to simply understand more....

The smell analogy is awesome lol this car has the best gas mileage, it just does don't ask how we

Came to that or god forbid dig deeper.

[Chris74]

Another mention of weight loss

[Chris74]

 

2. The most accurate method to eat the right amount of protein, fat, and carbs is to follow the meal template guidelines 

 

 

2 thumbs and half a palm are an okay way to describe nutrients but.... and I am not looking for an answer, i know my personal needs, i am simply asking if you follow the guideline what does it come out to in your opinion?  In your opinion.  In you opinion, what does the daily outcome look like following the tempate?  Why does no one want to explore that understanding?  The fear of some deviation of thought is palpable, like the feel of the smell of a rose... 

[JJB]

22 days in and I've definitely lost muscle.

 

So...eat more protein. Why do you need an "official" stance on protein amounts? What if they did tell you 90g per day? Would you stick to that because it's "the rules," or would you experiment by adding more because you have personal results indicating you need more?

 

I'm not sure why you're so frustrated. Many of us who join this program are relieved that we don't have to count/weigh every morsel we eat. True, a lot of us are more interested in maintaining or losing weight, not necessarily trying to add muscle. But you can still reach your goals by just experimenting, listening to your body, watching your results, etc. as Tom said.

 

Personally, I'm glad this program isn't a "one size fits all eat X of this and X of this per day." Many of us have truly lost the ability to listen to our bodies due to years of yo-yo dieting, counting calories, using points, etc. I think being able to pay attention to what your body is telling you and make tweaks as needed for your body and your lifestyle is an invaluable skill, and I'm very glad they are teaching us that here.

 

The portion sizes recommended in the template are not arbitrary. Dallas and Melissa developed those recommendations over time. As GFChris said, perhaps you should email them directly since you are still clearly not satisfied with the responses you are getting here.

[Chris74]

So...eat more protein. Why do you need an "official" stance on protein amounts? What if they did tell you 90g per day? Would you stick to that because it's "the rules," or would you experiment by adding more because you have personal results indicating you need more?

 

 

Typically I've found asking questions and looking for more information is better than not.

 

WEIGHT LOSS!!!!!  you can cut off your arm and weigh less, you truly want to loss body fat, that isn't just a difference in semantics.  

[JJB]

Typically I've found asking questions and looking for more information is better than not.

 

WEIGHT LOSS!!!!!  you can cut off your arm and weigh less, you truly want to loss body fat, that isn't just a difference in semantics.

 

Agreed, on both counts.

I do understand that some people just like to know the whys to everything. Personally I don't care why my car gets good gas mileage, just that it does!

[Chris74]

well good "discussion" everyone

[Chris74]

Since Dallas and Melissa Hartwig created Whole30, why don't you ask them? Their email is [email protected]

 

I got a quick reply with exactly the information I was interested in knowing.  lol.  thanks again everyone ;-)

[amberino21]

If you're interested in your ratio while you're eating this way, who is stopping you working it out?

If you're working out, you're supposed to also be incorporating pre/post WO meals which would bump up cals and protein.

2 palms of protein per meal would surely give you more than 90g per day, especially man sized palms.

[Chris74]

(deleted no one reads here sentence)

 

I was asking, according to the admins, what do they feel the outcome looks like based solely on the template, obviously it's not an exact number and it's different based on exactly what I eat.  holy moly.

 

again as i stated, i emailed the same question to the HQ and got the response i was looking for without hesitation or the similar necessary above posts:

"Everyone else: it doesn't feel like anything; it's a smell."

 

take a cue from the people who wrote it, it doesn't always need to be a "YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!" opportunity.  It's an easy pitfall, let your deadlift speak for you ;-)

[GFChris]

Care to share the response you received? 

[Chris74]

Care to share the response you received? 

 

 

They said the smell of a rose's gas mileage shouldn't be analysed to that degree when you are trying to lose weight.

[jillian]

Chris74  - I'm uncomfortable responding to your questions out of fear of how you'll respond to my input. Your tone in these previous posts doesn't come across as friendly - mostly just frustrated and demanding despite your use of smiley faces and "lol". I'm glad you chose to email Melissa and Dallas directly.

[Chris74]

Chris74  - I'm uncomfortable responding to your questions out of fear of how you'll respond to my input. Your tone in these previous posts doesn't come across as friendly - mostly just frustrated and demanding despite your use of smiley faces and "lol". I'm glad you chose to email Melissa and Dallas directly.

 

 

[Chris74]

Chris74  - I'm uncomfortable responding to your questions out of fear of how you'll respond to my input. Your tone in these previous posts doesn't come across as friendly - mostly just frustrated and demanding despite your use of smiley faces and "lol". I'm glad you chose to email Melissa and Dallas directly.

 

Here's a question, do you know what Advanced Glycation End Products are?  If not, I suggest you look them up.  They're produced when you cook meats at high temperatures.  If I were to come on and ask about this, the same people would say lean meat is fine, you're looking into this too much, etc....

 

And I would say I not asking about how you personally need to follow this regimen and asking about this or that is too much detail.  Not enough detail is what got most of these people into trouble but if not thinking about it and following a paradigm works for them, super!  

 

I would have been asking what the whole30 stance is on the production of AGEs.  It was probably a mistake on my end to bc you're right, it was frustrating getting the same answer i specifically said I wasn't looking for.  If you don't care about AGEs or what grams the template equals out to. that's fine, but why continue or even in the first place comment if you can't provide an answer?

 

Asking questions shouldn't be frowned upon.

[Tom Denham]

Okay. I think we have gone far enough with this topic now. I am closing it to further comments.