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Going for Whole60, would love a buddy


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Erica,  I guess I haven't been around long enough to know, so I have to ask..what is "long black with coconut oil"?


Bfast for me is similar to Amy:

Sautee'd onions & peppers with some greens and then add the eggs to cook on top with some spices thrown in.

Pastured pork sausage in a pan with diced apple & cinnamon, and then some more veg that I have cut up and ready to eat, like bell peppers.

I use coconut oil or ghee to cook in the pan, but to add more fat, I add 1/2 avocado or a handful of coconut shreds.


I almost bought some coconut butter last week, because I saw how versatile it was stated to be as far as a spread or in recipes, but I didn't because I knew it would most likely be a problem for me.  Now that I am committed, I'm so glad I chose to leave it at the store.  What I found works for me with nuts is: I bought some raw, unsalted cashews and then divied them up into snack baggies with 15 in each bag.  That way if I do need a quick and easy fat to add on the meal, it's portion controlled.

I took my measurements so I'm going to post them here for all to see:  Ok, here it goes...

Bust: 37.25",  Waist (smallest part): 31", (at belly button): 36", Hips: 38", Thigh: 21.5", Calf: 13.75", Neck: 13", Bicep (down by side): 11.25" ,  weight: 135,  height: 5'1".  My goal is to provide my body truly good nutrition so that I can lose this fat, feel great, improve my cholesterol #s, avoid illness like diabetes, auto-immune and other diseases (heart problems run on my dad's side) and be healthy for the rest of my life which I hope is long!  BTW, I am 46, married with 2 boys, age 22 & 11. 

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I think my favorite easy breakfast is sausage with cabbage. I am currently obsessed with cabbage. I could eat it all day long (who says that, right? ha!) But it's really easy to just stirfry that up in a pan. I usually don't put any extra cooking fat in it, because the sausage greases everything up quite nicely. This could also be done w/ any kind of green, I just like cabbage's crunch. 

Or eggs and veggies. Also super easy. And there's usually a half avo or handful of olives or some coconut product to be the fat. I also usually have some kind of tea with coconut milk a couple hours after breakfast. Sometimes with breakfast. 

Yesterday though, oh man, i had leftover salmon so I used the hunk of fish kind of like a bagel base, with mashed up avocado, red onions, tomato, capers, salt, and pepper. It was actually easy to prepare too (since the salmon was already cooked)

Gosh, I could talk about food aaalllll day. 

Things are happening in my kitchen! Kombucha and sauerkraut and pickles! I am so excited to be fermenting things and experimenting with food. I am planning on cooking up some liver today and bone broth/stock, and cooking a bunch of sweet potatoes to have for the week. It's such a good strategy cooking in large batches to have food throughout the week. Make sense!


Anyone have any favorite food projects/recipes they'd like to share?


I love your idea of portioning things out, greeninpace! Little baggies of nuts for on-the-go. 


I haven't taken measurements/weighed myslef in a long time. I'm also 5'1", I would say between 120-130. Maybe less now? I dunno. I have pretty large breasts for my size, I am sooo wanting them to shrink! I gain most of my weight in my torso/chest region. I have also felt for the first time in awhile some weight loss. I am so glad I am doing more than those initial 30 days. 

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thanks for the breakfast ideas! amy, your salmon stack sounded so good!

I have been experimenting quite a bit and have so many cookbooks now that family is worrying about the finances, lol.

I really love fermented veges too, usually buy them in our local organic shop but want to start making my own too. I used to do kefir but not right now, as no dairy. this may be something I will add back in after whole30.

I have just got a package in the mail from the us with primal blueprint book and cookbooks, paleo primer book and a great poster- it's my day off so ....happy reading and cooking to me ;)

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Molly, that salmon DOES sound yummy!  I might just have to have some for dinner.  I baked some sw pot yesterday.  Kudos to you for making your own fermented foods.  I have some kimchi in the fridge that I bought, I do like it this time (Korean), I've tried a few other brands that were not good.  I used to do kefir but then found a good probiotic supplement that is so much easier and my kids will take it too.  I bought some of the fermented carrots and beets from vital choice, they were very good to try, but a bit pricey to continue.  Would love to hear how your saurkraut & pickles turn out.


So far this week has been good, no slips, re-reading my bookmarked pages of ISWF.  Already beat the feeling of being hot during the night - yay!


Erica, Last year I got the Primal Blueprint book and cookbook too.  It was very good information about turning on the fat-burning!  Poster?  is it motivational?


Now off to do a 30 minute bike ride and then get busy w/household tasks that await me! :P   Hope you all have a wonderful Wednesday!

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Hi Everyone - everyone is doing so well!  I unfortunately have a bad headache today - I am just now tying it to the fact that I allowed myself more sugar than usual last night, I had family visiting and had a paleo dessert...I know my body does not like it.   I had trouble sleeping last night and then today has felt like a hangover.  This has been such a learning experience for me.  While eating the dessert I felt more detached from it than usual, like I was in control of eating and could stop at any point.  I choose to partake in it and eat with the group, this was a first in over 6 weeks so that was interesting.


MOlly - nice work on making your own fermented foods, I want to make my own sauerkraut soon - we eat a lot of it.

Greeninpace - I liked the primal blueprint, I bought it when it first came out in 08 but lost it :(  At the time the way of eating was too dramatic for me so I did not really follow it at all.  Now I wish I had the book, i would love to reread it.  I am considering buying it again.


I am headed on vacation to my inlaws tomorrow thru Monday so I may not be able to post while I am out.  Wish me luck - I am going to have to do a fair amount of grocery shopping when I get there to stay on plan.

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@greeninpeace- the poster came along as a freebie, as I bought about the primal book and cookbook and the new book Paleo Primer. It's a nice visual and I might hang it up in my little home office.

not quite game enough to put it up in my physio room, it may scare off some of my clients....

I have both Mark's cookbooks and the sauces and dressing book and like them all, he does use dairy a bit but there is plenty without and it's all easy to make!

@Amy, good luck on your vacation- I am sure you can stay on plan!

I have one local friend who has recently changed to paleo eating- she is going on a trip and wants to do a whole30 after that. it's very nice to have someone handy to talk over how we are going and how we manage our family meals. She is tall and lanky and needs to make sure she doesn't drop too much weight so is at this stage making herself some paleo treats to keep her weight on track ;)

I however do much better without the treats...

I am at day 18 and time seems to fly by- I am amusing myself by thinking of one treat I may like to have on day 31, but cannot decide what I would really go for! I am sure I will do best if I keep fairly strictly paleo or bad habits will sneak back in. never thought I could go so long without snacking ;)

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Good Morning ladies!  Day 4 for me, feeling pretty good compared to what Melissa says some feel at this point with crankiness or tiredness.  I just felt a bit fatigued yesterday and still a bit this morning.  I think it's my body's reaction to not using sugar for fuel anymore...hope it's turning to the FAT to gobble up now. :)


Amy - Isn't it interesting to actually see the dramatic effect that one food can make!  Go strong on vacation...you're probably there by now...


Erica - Sweet that you have a local buddy, that will be very encouraging.  Day 18!  WOW!  I know what you mean about daydreaming of day 31.  However, by the time I finished last time, I actually didn't even want to put any "treats" in my mouth for fear of back-sliding but also because I had lost the desire for it (except for maybe dark chocolate ;) ).  Interesting that you are from New Zealand...my husband and sons are fascinated with it ever since we watched the "Lord of the Rings" movies and they sincerely want to move there.  Do you enjoy living there?

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Hello gals!


Greeninpace, so glad you're feeling well today! I hear you with those feelings of fatigue! I started a new job at a gym this week (free Crossfit, yay!!!) but I worked the morning shift 3 days in a row....getting up at 4:30 am! I do prefer working mornings, but I was pooped out yesterday. And I've realized being tired really affects my cravings/food issues. Yesterday I had a binge-y moment after dinner. I went and picked (and ate) about 7 plums! They were little, but still! And I had a couple other snacky post-dinner things. So obviously my habits are still poking their naughty little heads out, but it reaffirms my need to be doing a Whole60 and sticking with this. I didn't totally stuff myself to feeling sick (which was a tendency of time) and it was long enough before bedtime where I went to sleep feeling fine. 

And luckily I slept a good 9 hours last night and feel awesome today! 


I'm climbing Mt. Adams this weekend and am, of course, planning on staying Whole9. I am excited to be bringing my own food and not having to worry about pack weight. I'm doing a 6-day backpacking trip in October and I am getting excited (but also nervous) about what food to bring. I'll have to start a dehydrating frenzy! :) I will also have to make concessions, I think. Maybe using quinoa for dinners. We'll see. It'll be a fun journey none-the-less.


I hope your weekend is providing a do-able challenge, Amy. I know you'll do great!


Hey, I haven't bitten my nails in over a week! I even painted them last night, which I never do because they're usually so ugly. I still kind of pick at them and want to bite them, but I haven't. Yay!


Alright, back to work. Thanks, everyone!

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Quick post while i have access to a computer -

Nice job on the nails Molly!

I am going to be compliant all weekend, I planned out meals while on the road today. I am going to head to the grocery tomorrow and cook as I need to, both for me to eat well and my family! We are not going to eat trash for the next 5 days! If I don't feel satisfied I will go to sweets and I want to prevent that!

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@Greeninpeace- I love living in New Zealand- have been here a long time after emigrating from Holland

My children were born here. I live rural and love the space, the great outdoors right on my doorstep- it's a beautiful place ;) and yes, it does look (in parts) like Lord of the Rings- I remember the film crew being in our area several times, very exciting

on the topic of food- I had almost lost track of where is was in the Whole30 in the middle of a stressful week on many levels but am really happy to have maintained my calm in some hard times and today am feeling great! last night was a low point in the week (Friday night) - very tired and ready to binge for the first time in weeks- managed to not do so although I did eat after dinner- berries, coconut and nuts and noticed this morning that it had an effect on my digestion for sure- this is the main habit I want to break and it will need more than a month, that is certain! I am so good at cheating myself and allowing what is no good for me! but these last 3 weeks have been so much better than anything I have done before that I am quite happy with the idea of staying strict after day 30....

great to hear you guys being active and planning exercise and trips and sticking with it! a good example, thank you x

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Feels funny that I've not written since Thur. but the weekend was busy - in a good way!  I had lunch with a friend at a restaurant and though there was a warm loaf of bread on the table that looked delicious along with a plate of oil & seasonings, my friend cut the bread for herself, but I didn't even touch it.  The "pre-comittment" thing really does work!  I ate grilled shrimp served on bed of warm spinach which had a bit of olive oil on it.  I can't testify to the quality of it since it didn't come out of my kitchen, but I feel like it was definitely on plan for what to eat and it provided the desired psychological effect too.  Soooo glad I passed on that bread that was right in front of me! :)  For I know what would have happened if I would have eaten some...one thing leads to another.  So now I have used my mental/psychological muscle and will be stronger for it.  Eats continued to be very good and today marks 1 full week!!!!!!!!  YAY!


Molly - way to go at showing those nails some LOVE & TLC  :)

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Congrats on week 1 and navigating eating out! I'm so glad you're feeling good psychologically as well as physically. That is so important.


I just got back last night from climbing Mt. Adams and stayed Whole9 the whole time! I was proud. Everyone had their weird backpacking meals, and I had my own dried chili that I made last year, nuts, Larabars (which I only reserve for strenuous activity where I need more carbs) hardboiled eggs, cabbage, tuna, and avocado! Of course, since it was such a short trip (1 night, 2 days) and we weren't carrying our packs to summit, I had the luxury of bringing all that fresh food. It was awesome. I felt great, in shape, and totally capable. And it was hard at some points...steep and windy!

While I'm a little banged up (minor cuts and bruises from glissading down!), I don't feel that sore and I'm going on another small hike today. Yay!

Another kind of random note: sense of smell! Apparently Mt. Adams used to be mined for sulfur, and I was the only one with an acute enough sense of smell to smell it. Ok, who really wants to smell sulfur? But still, in my own head I was proud to know that my sinuses were clear enough to sense something others couldn't. hehe


I'm really excited and motivated to start dehydrating projects for my 6 day trip in October. I think mangoes are 4 for $5 at the store, so that'll be my first project :)


Hope everyone's weekend was as great as green's and mine.


Big Whole9 hugs!

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Hi Everyone - glad to hear everyone is doing so well!


Molly - nice hikes, I wish I had the time to take hikes....defintiely on my list as my kids get older and they could walk for longer distances!

Greeninpace - I am not sure why, but I agree not having bread is the biggest success for me as well.  In the past I could inhale a bread basket like no other....if there was oil to dip it in, even better!

Erica - good job staying calm!  I purchased the Natural Calm product....I don't see a huge difference from it, but I will let you know if I do.


I did really well on my trip.  I cooked a lot to have what I needed.  I did not give in and have any of the food that was not on plan which is amazing, so that was pretty much all there was sometimes.  At a lobster boil I made greens so I would have a side to have with my lobster.  Good fat was hard to get so I ate a fair amount of nuts.


This week I am feeling good, I don't feel the need to eat as often for some reason.  I have found that pretty much every day I want to eat at 9am and around 2:30pm....so, why not jsut have my meals then?  It is working better...I know they say to have breakfast, but I am just not that hungry and I am a lot more satisfied eating later.  So my new eating plan is 9, 2 and a smaller dinner around 6.  We will see how this goes :)


Have a good day ladies!!

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Things change daily for me. I'm feeling a little more out of control/hungry/binge-y than I had previously. So, I'm more than 2 weeks late on my period. I know for sure I'm not preggers, but I have had bouts of pms throughout these past two weeks and just want to get the whole deal over with! I will definitely be having sweet potatoes for dinner tonight. Seriously, though, 2 weeks? What the heck? It's pretty frustrating, especially when I never know what to contribute to pms or not. Have I been having random feelings of pms throughout the past 2 weeks or am I just tired sometimes and less able to control my cravings? The most confusing part, too, is that I don't feel like my eating habits have changed that much. Or maybe cutting dairy and sugar out has really shaken things up down there? Those are the only things that I was eating prior to Whole30 that have since been cut out. But I wasn't eating soy or grains or legumes really. I think I'll go put a post on the Ladies Only forum and see what they have to say.

Anyway, it's a bummer feeling less awesome than I did even a few days ago. While everything that goes into my mouth is still Whole30 approved (that part is almost second nature to me at this point) it's the lack of control and those old habits that really get to me and bum me out.

Oh the "joys" of being a woman. guh.


On a happier note, way to go Amy for rocking your weekend away! There was a challenge and you rose to it. That is awesome.

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Molly, the hiking sounds like a very fun time!  So proud of your "stick-to-it-iveness" including "dried chili"...would love to hear how you made that  :)  Maybe your sinuses were clearer due to no-dairy???  That PMS stuff is not fun.  I think it could be just by eliminating dairy and sugar that it shifted your body a bit.  In the past when I have done that, my TOMs have changed to going longer in between as well as becoming very light, which I liked.  But if you're feeling not-so-good, it could just be an adjustment phase.  This is another reason I plan to continue on with Whole 9 permanently.


Amy,  good to hear you're back from your trip and stayed strong in the face of temptation!  :)   Sounds like you've figured out a good common sense eating schedule that works for you.


I made the Morrocan Meatballs recipe from one of the daily emails recently (I think it was Clothes Make the Girl) and it turned out really good.  The meatballs were more work than they needed to be for the flavor - it wasn't anything special, but the tomato sauce that you make along with it - was real good.  I just had the last of the leftovers tonight and mixed in some raw broccoli and warmed it on the stove - YUM!!!  Definitely a re-do recipe.

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Molly - I am RIGHT there with you, I am now 3 weeks late on my period and prior to this I was very regular.  I know that my body in the past has been sensitve to exercise, so I am thinking this is the same type of thing.  And that is even with being more lax in the last week - not being as worried with the fat/ protein requirement and just eating Whole30 foods when hungry.  I am feeling less "PMS" than I did a few weeks ago, less bloated and sad, which is good.  I have been pregnant before and I know what that feels like...I am defintiely not feeling that!


I am feeling different this week than I was when I was "ON" the whole30 - even though I am still eating the whole approved food list.  I am allowing myself to be more relaxed and eat when I am hungry, and when I want to eat - I am not forcing meat and avocados like I was.  What I am doing now seems a lot more sustainable.   Molly, if your body is at all like mine, I think you may be getting cravings again because your body wants some freedom.  Maybe?


Green - glad the meatballs came out good, I looked to make them at one point but did not have all of the ingredients...I will have to try them ;)

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Wow, for whatever reason I didn't even think about the added exercise. I have been doing way more heavy lifting, etc than previously in my life.

Amy are you postulating that I'm getting cravings from more of a psychological place than a physical one because of a restriction mentality? That's definitely possible. The thing is, I'm not necesarily even craving off-Whole30 foods. Ok, I guess that's not totally true. I did want sweets last night. Ok, I had a pretty silly eating night last night. By "silly" I mean a binge. I'm trying to not use too harsh of language with myself. It was not one of my finer moment's during this Wholeexperience ...5 dates, handful of frozen berries and, oh I'm embarrassed by this one, 4 sweet potatoes. They were small, but still. 4?!?! I roasted them up and I just kept going back for more until there were none. I guess it's not bad if that's my only really hardcore binge in 44 days, but I was still kinda bummed with myself. Luckily, I did this a good few hour before going to bed so I didn't feel like total crap when sleep rolled around. But I felt thicker this morning, of course.

Anyway, that's my current status. Reeling from last night and still trying to figure it all out.

I need to go back and look at my goals and remember why I'm doing this. I'm nervous about what this weekend will bring...I hope a) my period, and B) enough strength to not go crazy and eat the whole house.

Also, I think I might try some reintroductions soon. I really want to know how dairy affects me. I was thinking, cooking in butter in the morning. Maybe some cheese or yogurt later in the day. We'll see. I'm excited about that part! 

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Molly - if you added strength training and are doing more in the gym I would defintiely add that to a reason why your period has stopped.  In the past I went YEARS without a period because I was exercising too much.  To make a long story short - mother nature often shuts down the womens body in terms of reproduction if your body thinks it is starving or under too much stress.  Restricing food, not eating enough and exercising all increase cortisol which stresses the body....and for me it often means messed up cycles.


You are doing great, and if you think you want to bring in dairy to test it out I would support that...better now if you can do it in a controlled manner than potentially later on when you want to eat it along with say....flour and corn to make cornbread.


4 sweet potatoes is not bad....think bigger picture, I have inhaled way more tortilla chips than that in the past, or bread or cake.   Did you by chance workout more yesterday and not have enough starchy carbs?  I don't think Whole 30 does a good enough job of explaining that you do need to eat more than meat, fat and greens if you work out.  You do need more carbs to support exercise....not a ton of course, but some more.


Today has been weird for me, I swam this morning which was nice, but I get hungry after that.  Also, I worked from home today...so I had more access to food than my usual work day.  I know I have said this a few times now, but I have to lay off the nuts!   I keep buying them "for the kids" but of course they end up 99% of the time in my mouth!  They make me sick to my stomach...today is the last time.  I have gotten fruit under control, not the focus is on nuts.


Good luck this weekend everyone!!

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I think what you said Amy makes sense regarding the starchy carbs.  Sometimes that fuel is needed (good quality starchy carbs from veg) and it's important to pay attention to our body and be very mindful of what it truly needs.  Molly, I agree, looking at goals is a necessary pat of this.  Last time, I used a sharpie and wrote my clothes-size goal on the bathroom mirror - that way I was reminded every morning of that specific goal (which is 1 of many).  Come to think of it, I need to do that again!

I know I had kind of a over-do it afternoon today but due to other reasons.  Today was the day when I do our large grocery shopping trip, (every-other Friday) and I ran in to some time delays so by the time I finally got home and put all the cold stuff away, I was able to make a quick on-plan lunch of a pre-packaged baby kale blend salad w/some home-made vinaigrette and a can of Vital Choice Mackerel.  That was great but then...because I was so delayed in eating AND I was surrounded by all these great foods, I felt like having more so I ate a mineola and some freshly rinsed grapes which I didn't need, but I gave in because they were right there and looked so fresh.  Then I felt like I needed something satiating, so I had a portion of cashews/almond mix...then later I unpacked my son's lunch box and he had leftover citrus almonds (like you Amy, they were for my kid, but I ended up eating them).  I don't like it when I do this, because for the most part, I've eaten very little fruit and nuts, but at least I didn't eat anything off-plan.  Fridays can be challenging if I don't get to time it right.  Well, tomorrow morning I've been invited to a Free 1-hour Insanity Class, so I'm going to do it!  I've never tried it but it certainly looks INTENSE...and I think I need a good shot in the bootie  :P 

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@ Molly- yes, the joys of being a woman! I have been talking to my 20 year old daughter a lot about this- she is at that end of it (just like you really and has some health issues going on that are surely hormonal related) and I am at the other end at age 50- I have irregular light periods now, but last week had full blown pms for the first time in ages and that while on Whole30! this week I feel much better though.

It's still hard to control cravings, even now and my feeling about that is that is takes more than 30 days.

I have noticed myself getting better able to deal with it now, and having had those strict rules of whole30 helped- I need rules! now I am finished with whole30 I am basically keeping going, as I don't think I am ready to relax the rules very much!

I have been reading a lot - balancedbites podcasts (Liz Wolfe and Diane Sanfillipo)- 2 lovely ladies with lots of good info and they too know the challenges of being a woman!

I found a good article called "a fat loss template" on everydaypaleo.com which is also a good site to look at- I like the exercise ideas in there and am going back to more walking (I am a runner) and lifting weights (which I have done in the past but not for a while). having done some weights sessions recently I love how they make me feel strong and in control- worth a try.

Mark Sissons's primal book is also good reading in that he explains too that this is a lifystyle, not a short term solution and it is not about diet alone.

I am amazed at the information out there and it really helps me to tap into that.

go Molly, take a long walk, lift some heavy weights, sleep well and keep it up. I love that you are doing this at age 26, only wish I had known then....

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I did want sweets last night. Ok, I had a pretty silly eating night last night. By "silly" I mean a binge. I'm trying to not use too harsh of language with myself. It was not one of my finer moment's during this Wholeexperience ...5 dates, handful of frozen berries and, oh I'm embarrassed by this one, 4 sweet potatoes. They were small, but still. 4?!?! I roasted them up and I just kept going back for more until there were none. I guess it's not bad if that's my only really hardcore binge in 44 days, but I was still kinda bummed with myself. Luckily, I did this a good few hour before going to bed so I didn't feel like total crap when sleep rolled around. But I felt thicker this morning, of course.

Also, I think I might try some reintroductions soon. I really want to know how dairy affects me. I was thinking, cooking in butter in the morning. Maybe some cheese or yogurt later in the day. We'll see. I'm excited about that part!

In terms of a binge Molly I would say this is quite benign....maybe you just needed some starch? how much exercise do you do? I know I feel much better if I have some pumpkin or sweet potato on days that I exercise a lot or even the day after- I did a good weights session on Friday and on Saturday had baked pumpkin with breakfast and with lunch- so good and I felt like I needed it- this works better for me to just add that in, otherwise I will crave more fatty things or sweet things later and go for the nuts or too much coconut cream, lol-

hope you feel better today

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Thank you so much, ladies! I really needed all of your pep talks and advice and support. I feel ready again to take on the challenges of food. yeehaw!

Erica, thanks for that Fat Loss article. Really good stuff. I feel like that has been my trajectory anyway in terms of the exercise bit. I'm not sure about the food. I have a hard time tracking things like food, mood etc. I just don't think about it in the moment and then by the end of the day I've forgotten everything I've done/eaten. And there's part of me that doesn't want to be so obsessed with it all. And just eat when I'm hungry, with a general template of protein, fat, veggie.

Anyway, I've also been justifying the fruit with the season and the fact that it's all around and often free. I rarely buy fruit, truthfully. But having a delicious plum tree right outside my house...poses problems :) delicious problems! I'm sure I'll be eating way less fruit come fall/winter. Maybe more squash, but less fruit. That will feel good, I think.

I hope there really does come a day where from there on out I don't obsess about food and can just intuitively eat when I'm hungry all the time! Again, I've had glimpses of it, few day stretches, but not for a whole month or anything. Patience, little cricket (yes, I'm talking to myself).

I haven't bought nuts in awhile (except for the backpacking trip), and don't think I should for those very reasons. Why are nuts so darn good?! Cashews...I could devour those things.


Green, how was Insanity? I don't know much about it, I would love to hear what you did in your class.

You all are wonderful, go team, and have yourselves some scrumptious Sundays!

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yeah, why are nuts so Moorish?? I am much better than I used to be now I am basically aware of it, but for me they are probably best avoided unless as an add on to a meal- like in my beloved pesto.

I have started soaking and roasting them, which makes them easier to digest and am going to keep limiting them for now.

I know what you mean Molly about not wanting to obsess about food all the time and just feel easy about it- sometimes I do feel it, it's getting better for sure!!

I had to cook for 3 hungry guys this weekend and wow, they can just eat and eat and eat and they are all skinny.....not fair!

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