Wine: an update and some realizations

[LadyM]

I've been lurking on this thread for some time and even read Drink on y'all's recommendation. Lots to contemplate. Thanks for helping to deepen my thinking and self reflection on this subject.

What especially interests me is Susie's bringing up intensity. I think any addiction can be boiled down to an addiction to intensity--though the substance or behavior may vary, that's what underlies it. It's true for me and it's true for others I've observed. Anyway, I think part of the process for me is learning to be open and attuned to natural intensity rather than created intensity. The sensation I feel when I observe the quality of light during my daily walks at dusk vs. the feeling I get from a glass or two of wine. The natural high I get from dancing my hair straight while sober rather than drinking to excess and then making dubious choices.

I very rarely drink (< once a month max), but when I do it tends to be in celebration mode and looks an awful lot like binge drinking. I can easily have a glass of wine with colleagues at a work dinner and then not think about alcohol until the next fancy work dinner. But I recognize that my behavior with alcohol can certainly be dangerous. And it doesn't make me healthier to imbibe.

However, what's most important to me is to look at the underlying issue even more than simply eliminating alcohol, which is still a very real possibility for me. And intensity is a key. In addition to looking out for natural intensity, for me what's important is exorcising my own natural intensity through creative expression. I write, I dance, I sing, I act, I draw. We were put on this earth to create, whether we believe we're naturally creative or artists or whatever or not. Flex those muscles and call it play. Look at how kids behave for inspiration. It's not about being "good" at whatever you're doing; it's about joy.

[RedSparrow]

Sassy: Thanks for the article. I know advertising is influential on our collective and individual psyches, but sometimes I forget just how insidious it can be. I'll look into the book as well, but at the moment my reading plate is full and I'm about to start school again. So many things to do!

A question as I try to puzzle through this: if we were to remove the intoxicant factor from the wine, would this still be as touchy a subject? Meaning that a large part of why I like red wine is the complexity of flavors, as well as the mouth feel. I feel the same way about dark chocolate. The fact that I have been able to get through my W30 (on day 28 now!) without succumbing to the urge to have a glass is reassuring to me. I guess I'll just keep up my awareness and take it one day at a time.

Susie: Congratulations on getting through Friday night with the kids! Now that you have one under your belt, the next time (Tuesday) should be a little easier.

 

I've dabbled in yoga on and off for years, and for a long time found myself doing the same thing you described, making to do lists in my head or worrying about things that happened earlier in the day. The best suggestion I have to address that is to notice when you're doing it, and gently nudge your mind back to focusing on the pose you're in and your breathing. There are times when my brain is going so crazy running around that I literally think, "RedSparrow, Stop. Focus. Breathe. In, out. In, out." And if I keep repeating "in" and "out" with my breath, I can regain a semblance of calm. Of course my mind will get bored and wander off again, but I just keep redirecting it (I often think of my brain as a toddler; she takes a LOT of attention) until the end of class. i also try to push myself into continually deepening the poses so that the light burn/muscle strain takes my mind off other things. If I don't feel any tension in a pose, I push it a little harder; this keeps me in the present. Maybe that will help you?

 

To LadyM: I often feel too intense! I write, I draw, I bike, I cook, and I dance around my apartment like a fool Lately I've been trying to channel all that (plus the W30 tiger's blood- I finally found it, and it's a doozy!) into massive productivity, but sometimes I just want a break. Joy and play are the bricks that make up the foundation of my life. I'm trying to figure out how incorporate calm and content in there as well. 

[LadyM]

To LadyM: I often feel too intense! I write, I draw, I bike, I cook, and I dance around my apartment like a fool Lately I've been trying to channel all that (plus the W30 tiger's blood- I finally found it, and it's a doozy!) into massive productivity, but sometimes I just want a break. Joy and play are the bricks that make up the foundation of my life. I'm trying to figure out how incorporate calm and content in there as well.

Yep. I'm with you. I think it's all about becoming aware and finding balance. Intensity is a quality; it's not who or what we are. When we're especially drawn to it, learning to relax and cultivate calm and experiencing it that way instead of as boredom is crucial. And it's a years- if not lifetime-long practice!

Yoga and meditation are central to my healing, and they, too, are a practice. Just keep showing up and staying present and it will get easier. That's been my experience, and that's over decades.

[Cate B.]

This is a wonderful thread. I have alcoholism splashed all through my Irish Catholic lineage, including my mom & brother, and my dad definitely drank to deal when things were rough while I was growing up. Almost every person in my mom's immediate family is a recovering or practicing alcoholic. And then there's me. I was placed into a 12 step program with my brother 20 years ago; I was only 13. I was there as a result of my parents' fear watching my older brother spiral out of control. In fairness to them, I looked like an after-school special / public service announcement on troubled teens. I sucked up all the early 90s marketing and I was way too young to do that. And, I was depressed.

 

Point being, I actually didn't drink until I was 20 and transferred colleges (specifically to get away from all the 12 step shenanigans I felt like were looming over me).  I wanted to fit in with my new college friends and didn't want it to be so obvious that unlike all of them, I didn't start drinking at high school parties, or even college parties at that point. So, I always over drank, had no idea how much it took to get me drunk, etc. There were a lot of poor choices made. 

 

Fast forward ten years, I do not consistently drink to excess, nor do I strive to get drunk. However, 3 years ago I did drink enough that I blacked out (and it wasn't the first time, though definitely the last), and suffered some consequences that I now carry with me. That incident shook me enough to not drink that much anymore, but the mere fact that I have this negative history with drinking, and that like what so many others have said - I still miss it because of the ritual and relaxation, I felt like I should post here. 

 

Red wine (of course!) has been my nemesis on countless whole30s. I'm on Day 26 right now, and know it's possible I will have a glass of wine when I go on vacation to California next week. However, a glass of wine right now sounds horrible. I can feel the headache that so many have mentioned. So perhaps I won't actually want a glass when I get there. 

I think I'm running on and on and on now. Maybe I'll write more later that's actually cohesive! Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. 

[Penelope]

Wine is part of the reason I sabotaged my whole30 on day 11. I was frustrated at my poor timing (summer vacation, anniversary, birthday) in the middle of my 30 day cleanse so I planned to fail on a road trip. I did enjoy the Pinot Grigio ....and all the other glasses but sure felt like arse and lazy the following day. Now I am eager to start (and finish) a whole30. My husband wants to do it with me and I will be so proud if he can do it! Then 10 days of reset felt so good and I'm looking forward to learning more about my body and being a better mommy for my son.

Wine has always been a part of our life (we have even crushed and barreled it ourselves) but the stop drinking chip is missing. I agree that just having 1 glass is harder than having none!

One other thread mentioned a link called hello Sunday morning (Google it) and it really touches on how much society has accepted heavy social drinking and has some people who blog about taking a pledge embrace the morning (one hangover free day at a time)

Souls searching 101 here I come! Thank you for this thread....something I really need to stop ignoring and make excuses for why I need wine.

Penelope

[RedSparrow]

Here's my update, a week after finishing my W30. 

 

I had planned on doing a controlled reintroduction, but you know what they say about best laid plans. It didn't help that I was visiting my parents and some old friends for a few days- that put me in vacation mindset, and we all know how that goes. But I didn't have any wine for my first two days post-W30, mostly because the circumstances didn't lend themselves. 

After I got home from the trip, at the end of a 5-hour drive, I decided it was time. I cracked open a bottle of Zin, poured a single glass (and a lighter pour than usual for me), recorked the bottle and put it on top of the fridge, then went into the living room. I took the first sip, and man... it was delicious. I savored the velvety way it rolled across my tongue, tried to take note of all the varying flavor notes. I drank it slowly, constantly vigilant for any changes in feeling or perception. I noticed that I was a little sleepy, but I chalked that up to the hectic travel schedule I was decompressing from. After that one glass, I puttered around my apartment for a bit and went to bed. Slept great.

 

The next night I had another glass with dinner, a slightly heavier pour than the night before. My head felt a little fuzzy. When I used to feel this way before, I would forgo anything else that needed to be done and curl up with a book. This time, I pushed through it and finished up some chores before heading to bed. So far, so good. 

 

The third night was pretty much the same as the second. 

The fourth night was essentially my Friday night, as I had the following day off. I had two glasses with dinner, and developed a good buzz. This time I noticed my self-control wearing thin- by the end of the second glass, I had given myself permission to eat a whole handful of dates and a bit of dark chocolate. I know this isn't a bender, by any means, but I basically went for the sweetest things I had on hand and ate however much I wanted. My petulant toddler brain was in full control. And the worst part about that night was that I didn't even really want the second glass. I only had it because I didn't want the bottle to go to waste, and it was already starting to oxidize. So I decided that to avoid that, I'll only have wine if I'm out or with company from now on. We'll see how that goes. 

How's everyone else doing?  

[Melimuse]

Good morning everyone,

I finished my first Whole 30 at the end of February. I had great feel good results, lost 5 of the 12 pounds I wanted, and came away planning to do a whole 30 quarterly.

While I was able to sustain the weight loss, my energy was poor and my stress level high. I remained careful about alcohol consumption, which had not been so high pre whole 30. Mostly I had seen my red wine consumption as an impediment to progress, self indulgent, and not as much fun as it was when I was younger and could metabolize it more quickly. So I would be satisied with a glass and my limit was 2. The one or 2 times I had 3 glasses between February and July, I was stunned at what a lightweight I'd become! Unless I am dancing it off faster than I take it in, just made me want to go to sleep. Meh.

In the background, i have been rehabbng a back injury, and finally had a breakthrouh that enabled more activity, a.k.a. Exercise.so in June I determined to embark upon another W30. Sadly, I was not fully committed, and within a week accepted my BF taking me to a special dinner (overdue from my birthday) at our favorite place, aptly named The Wine Kitchen. I had 3 glasses . . .didn't like how it made me feel. From ther I had a dinner party, had 2-3 glasses and fun, but still just felt tired. Then I developed what I thought was flu, which included a dizzyness that would not abate. My doctor gave me a prescription for vertigo, which I had never suffered from. Ugh. Over a few weeks, medication, clean eating and very little alcohol, no more than 1 glass one night got rid of the "vertigo".

About a month after I first came down with the "vertigo". (A hideously painful stomach and fever attack, so bad I could not get off the floor for a few hours). I travelled for work. My job is very stressful and I am working very hard to improve things and create change which is desperately needed. I am passionate about what I do and put a lot of energy into it. The 2nd day, I presented a strategic solution which was accepted by my peers and management, and made a healthy dinner for a few of my colleagues at my hotel. The food was all organic, and whole 30 compliant. 3 of us shared a bottle of wine, and I had 2 glasses.

The next day, I felt unwell. I attributed it to exhaustion and tried to stay in the meeting and eat sparingly. My stomach was in distress. That evening, the entire team was to dine together, so I steeled myself to eat lightly and go to bed right after; my absence could have been perceived poorly. Before dinner, while the team was enjoying the hotel hosted happy hour, i asked for only a half pour, about 2 ounces, and then we went on to dinner. I never made it to the dinner table! I collapsed in the restaurant ladies room and was transported to the ER, bately conscious and in enormous pain.

I was diagnosed with acute pancreatitus, Which can cause major organ damage. Luckily, I did not suffer any lasting damage, but boy have I gotten an education. It is a condition which is caused by many things, no one is ever sure. What is known is that a very fatty or poor diet, alcohol, and even viruses can both cause it, and can also TRIGGER it. Alas, looking back, I had allowed myself to eat a lot of fat on my W30 and paleo diets I have been on for years. And I had not eradicated alcohol completely. So, time to do so!

The thng is, one needs to have highher carbs and verry low fat to heal from pancreatitus. So my diet has been turned on it's head. I am eating, basicaaly, vegan plus fish. Even eggs hurt to eat. But,the good news is that I have dropped weight dramaticaaly and my energy is increasing! I am within 2.5 pounds of my starting goal weight and have decided to trim a bit more to get to my peak fitness weight, 4.5 pounds away.

Now to what may truly interest you on this forum. I am not going to drink alcohol anymore, because it holds me back from living life fully. This had long been my suspicion and now hey, I have empirical, physical proof. However, a future with no wine seems to be mssing somethng. Hmm. I decided to re-envision myself. Instead of the sophisticated, elegant woman who knows her wine and how to pair with an excellent meal, what image do I want to portray? Most importantly, what can release me from being cnstantly in the mind body experience of frenzied problem solving? I tealized that it is a deep seated human need to be, occassinally, in an altered state. All ancient and modern cultures recognize this and provise vehicles for it's expression. Religious fervor, ritual, catharsis nducing art . . meditation, sensory deprivation, extreme sports.

At this point I am seeking the 'high' afforded by fitness when one achieves an endorphin rush. Also I am writing more and heading to the beach to try communing with nature, some early morning yoga, meditation, and sunsets.

Give up wine, and feed your soul and imagination! That is my advice to myself and all of you. Recognize what you are really thirsting for! The philosophy is ther in It Starts with Food,.

[Gramma Susie]

I've been doing well without alcohol when I'm with the babies. This weekend will be another test as we go on the boat with our son and his wife and their two little ones. I know the kids will take a cooler with something to drink and I know I will want something. But, I've made a new plan and will have to stick with it. I can still have something if I want to when they go to bed, but by then it will be 8:30ish and getting a little close to my own bedtime. I'll have to let you know how I do.

I did go on the Sunday morning website, but haven't made the three month commitment yet. Thinking about that still. But, I did agree with a statement on that site that we've become a nation where alcohol and regular over consumption is the focus for many. Thirty years ago when I was a young mom and we would get together with other young parents, very rarely did we have any alcohol. It seemed to ramp up in our circle of friends as we saw our responsibility for our children diminish or they went out the door to college or career. Truth is, though, I know my level of alcohol consumption is observed not just by my grandchildren (though at this point they don't really know exactly what is going on with it), but also our own young adult children and our frinds. And, truth is also, we are an example the rest of our lives, for good or for bad whether we like it or not. I remember saying exactly that to my teenagers when they were pondering unwise moves. I have to listen to my own good advice.

And I've also been given food for thought by other posters on this thread who've decided to give up the red wine and aren't looking back. I have pondered that a lot. But, I would also like to hear from anyone who has successfully cut back on it and what strategies they used to make it work. I'd like to have a glass or two when I'm out with friends and with my husband at home occasionally. I just would like to move it to to a place of lesser importance the rest of the time. I never ever have any intention of getting drunk or even buzzed. I hate having slurred speech and most of the time I don't allow myself to get anywhere near that by drinking water chasers, etc. I just do like the somewhat pungent taste of red wine and haven't found another replacement. I've been doing pretty well drinking sparkling water for a change, but do definitely prefer the wine.

That's it for now.

[MeadowLily]

Reintros.....Day 31, Day 61, Day 91 and the first item of reintro is alcohol.   Houston?  Houston...come in Houston.

 

 

 

[MeadowLily]

I appreciate this thread, Sassy.  What are your throughts on adding alcohol back on your first day of reintro?

[Guest]

I guess it depends on if you think you have a problem with alcohol or not.  I always added it back immediately but I have a problem.  

[ragbaby]

This is a really good post for me to read. I'm on day 14 and I've really missed drinking from about day 5. I haven't been out twice (the last 2 occasions I had childcare) purely because I didn't want to be near the temptation of a pint. I'm not craving anything else so all my craving energy has gone into one thing - alcohol.

 

I cannot imagine life without alcohol, my social life revolves around it. I've no childcare for the remaining days so the risk of me having a drink are lower but I would dearly love a glass of wine right now.

[ktothev]

I've decided to pop back into this thread. I'm currently in the middle (literally, day 15) of my second Whole30. I am doing another whole30 specifically for the sugar and the alcohol issues. After the first week, the sugar and crap food cravings were pretty much gone (the only thing that really still sounds good to me is really good dark chocolate). However, I would just about kill someone for a glass of wine. On the positive side, it has made me realize what is really important: not beer, not margaritas, not fancy cocktails...just red wine, lol.

 

After my first Whole30 in january, I did a really good job of managing my drinking and limiting it to fun, social outings with friends, the perfect wine with a great meal, and only 1-2 drinks even then. Of course, the fact that I'm on another whole30 means I didn't maintain that and went back to all my old habits. Drinking nearly daily, at least 2-3 drinks, often more on the weekends.

 

This second Whole30 is me giving myself a second chance to change my relationship to alcohol. I've learned a lot over the last 8 months and hope to put that information to good use. If I once again fall back into old unhealthy habits, then I'm going to do 90 days without alcohol (see https://www.hellosundaymorning.org), and decide at that point if it is something I can have in my life in a healthy way or not.

 

I'm trying not to borrow trouble from the future and worry about failing again, rather just getting back on track and remaining positive and hopeful and knowing I have a plan in place if things don't go as I hope.

 

I do think there is a correlation between sugar, crap food, and alcohol as well. I'm not sure I can cut one out without cutting out the others. They all seem interrelated to me.

[Guest PaleoViki]

You know an alcoholic will always say they are not an alcoholic.  I too LOVE wine.  It IS my stress reliever and my social activity.  I live in an up and coming wine country.  The Rogue Valley in Oregon.  I love to go wine tasting.

 

Yes, I will say that I am not an alcoholic.  BUT I have struggled with this W30.  I have enjoyed this forum and am glad that you all have shared here.  This is now my safe place, I feel very comfortable here.  I don't want to give up wine when I am done.  I am very social.  I love the taste and feel of it. 

 

Thanks for sharing raptah, sassy, bibliophile and Wynne Jones.  Wynne, I am stealing your saying!  Okay?  V

[Guest PaleoViki]

Oh Sassy, I love reading your thoughts here.  I keep my gin in the FREEZER.  Although I will drink a gin and tonic there are other's who will drink a martini.   

 

Gin and tonic is so refreshing on a HOT summer day.    but wine is my passion.  V

[Guest]

Ooohhhhh gin.  I do miss it.  I do.  I struggle.  I have days, weeks, even that I am fine with being sober and then one little thing will trigger me.. yesterday it was a picture my friend posted on fb and in the background was a nice crisp refreshing g&t.  I actually mourned.  I felt real sadness and loss that I am too messed up to be able to handle just one.  I like to kid myself that maybe some day I will be able to have just one, but I have tried that overandoverandoverandover again and it never works.  NEVER.

Oh Sassy, I love reading your thoughts here.  I keep my gin in the FREEZER.  Although I will drink a gin and tonic there are other's who will drink a martini. 

 

Gin and tonic is so refreshing on a HOT summer day.    but wine is my passion.  V

[Guest]

And thank you  it's very difficult to post about drinking problems.

[Ann@HowcrossCastle]

Hang in there, Sassy. You are so NOT ALONE.

ann

[ktothev]

Sassy, that's why this thread is so wonderful. No one wants to talk about this stuff, but it helps so much to do so in a supportive environment.

[Guest]

I am bumping this to give an update.

 

The first couple of months of 2014 I dabbled with sobriety and then committed to giving alcohol the boot and was almost 60 days sober when I fell off the wagon while on vacation.. my host had frozen gin in his freezer.. my weakness, my drink of choice, my happiness in a bottle and I caved and drank my way through my vacation, because GIN! I came home, sobered up and am sober almost 8 months now!

 

I credit Whole30 for leading me down the path to sobriety and every single day I am thankful for Melissa and Dallas. When I did my first Whole30 in September  2012 I thought there was no way in hell I would be able to give up gin for 3 days let alone 30 days. I surprised myself and I didn't just do it, I ROCKED IT!!  The power Whole30 gave me was incredible and that started my journey to really evaluating my lifelong relationship with alcohol and for that I will be forever grateful.

[Tina Marie]

I love gin too... and my 2nd whole 30 will be done 1/30/15  even planned on 1/31 having some gin with my friends.. now I don't know if I will... I don't want to feel like crap.  I will come back and let you know if I do

[Pg6]

I am on day 16 of my second W30. My first was January 2014. The absence of red wine is what I struggle with. After my first W30, I would only have wine once or twice on the weekends. Keeping to my healthy meals and exercise routines during the week. My work is seasonal and by July my stress level increased and my drinking became an everyday occurrence again. By the end of October, my eating habits slipped even more and I was still drinking daily and not exercising like I had been. I was also up 13 pounds. I'm very nervous about going back to work and slipping again. Deep down I know I should stop drinking all together, but not sure I'm ready for this. I am very nervous about the end of this W30. Like others have said here, my sleep quality is horrible when I drink, I'm sluggish, and have self-loathing. W30 has certainly helped me be more conscious, I guess I'm hoping that this time, I might turn-the-tide on my obsession with red wine. I certainly will not give up.

[lianna]

As someone who has also struggled with red wine and alcoholism....I've had a lot of success in replacing my wine habit with exotic blends of berry juices...Trader joes has some good ones, I also like to mix and match on my own. I have a special wine glass I drink them in, and a ritual that goes with it. I am more of a solo drinker than a social drinker tho.

[LadyM]

I am on day 16 of my second W30. My first was January 2014. The absence of red wine is what I struggle with. After my first W30, I would only have wine once or twice on the weekends. Keeping to my healthy meals and exercise routines during the week. My work is seasonal and by July my stress level increased and my drinking became an everyday occurrence again. By the end of October, my eating habits slipped even more and I was still drinking daily and not exercising like I had been. I was also up 13 pounds. I'm very nervous about going back to work and slipping again. Deep down I know I should stop drinking all together, but not sure I'm ready for this. I am very nervous about the end of this W30. Like others have said here, my sleep quality is horrible when I drink, I'm sluggish, and have self-loathing. W30 has certainly helped me be more conscious, I guess I'm hoping that this time, I might turn-the-tide on my obsession with red wine. I certainly will not give up.

Your awareness is admirable and I wish you the best of luck! Since you know drinking for you is a stress-response, can you work on coming up with other ways to relieve stress? Working out, hot baths/showers, pampering myself with a pedicure, meditation and yoga are a few things that work well for me. And in having those tools I've found my attitude toward stressors has changed. I've made myself a priority so work doesn't have the same hold on me. I simply refuse to compromise myself, and funny thing: I still have a job and I seem to be even more effective at it! I hope that turns out to be the case for you, too.

[ladyshanny]

I simply refuse to compromise myself

I love this!  I've often wondered, does the refusal to compromise oneself bring about Whole30 or does Whole30 bring about a higher level of self respect?

 

I know for me they've eventually worked their way to being hand in hand and part of the reason that it is easier to say "no thank you" to less healthy food is because that would be compromising my health and it would have to be a pretty big deal to make that an option.  It rarely is a big enough deal.