Pancakes < Pasta - change allowed substitute foods per person?

[Lazybonesjones]

So, I'm sure this has been brought up before. But I searched and I couldn't find a post that said what I want to talk about so I'm starting a new one.

I understand why the rules for W30 says no pancakes (among other things). But since that part of the program has more to do with the emotional side of things, shouldn't it be based per person and not as a general rule?

For example; pancakes. I don't particularly care about pancakes. Sure I like them, but I don't crave them, I don't miss them, and as a general rule I don't eat them unless I'm making them for someone else, someone has made them for me, or I'm at a sugar shack. However, I LOVE pasta. I could eat it for every meal. I love it with sauce and meat, without sauce, with cheese without cheese, without meat...nothing but salt and pepper on it etc etc, I love it. I have an emotional attachment to pasta. You can't have pasta on W30, but you can make things look like pasta and use them instead of pasta. Which doesn't really help me with my emotional attachment to pasta. So for a person like me, if I want to mash up banana and eggs and make a pretend pancake, shouldn't that be okay while making zucchini into noodles should not?

I'm just curious what other people's opinions are. I have been doing a lot of introspection lately and this is something I keep thinking about when I think about how my emotions relate to what I eat. Please keep in mind that I'm not asking this as a way of justifying/getting "permission" to eat paleo pancakes, I used them as my example because they seem to come up a lot in the program.

[AmyS]

I think about this as well.  I think the nutritional reason why, say, zucchini noodles are an acceptable pasta substitute on Whole30 is because they are vegetables, and they help make your meal fit the template.  Paleo pancakes don't fit any part of the Whole30 meal template.

 

That said, I avoid cauliflower rice because I know that for me, it would be a substitute that would lead to problems.  (I grew up eating rice three times a day.)  Same goes for cauliflower mash.

 

So I think that while these foods would be fine for me in terms of fitting the Whole30 meal template, I know I can make better psychological choices for my needs.

 

Good post - I think about this kind of a thing a lot, and I think the question of what causes problems is more individual than we may acknowledge.

[GFChris]

Here's the thing (and this is somewhat adapted from attending Melissa Hartwig's Whole9 seminar yesterday). The rules are black and white. One very good aspect of this, is that it removes the areas of grey and associated decision-making. Your brain isn't expanding energy debating with itself: well, can I have this? Am I emotionally ok with it? Maybe a just a little? What's a little: is that one portion today? Three small portions a week from now?

The rules are there for a number of reasons in having the best possible results and cultivating a better relationship with food. And you only have to follow them for 30 days. 

 

Now, there may be allowable Whole30 foods that become food without brakes for some (e.g., nuts, nut butters, dried fruit), or the situation Lazybonesjones describes with the zucchini potentially not helping an emotional issue with pasta.  To me, that's where individual judgments come in on whether eating this food is serving me or not in my quest for having a better relationship with food.

[missmary]

two things: one. just because you crave pasta and feel like zucchini noodles shouldn't be part of your plan does not give you a pass to eat pancakes. period. two. zucchini noodles are easily eaten in a meal that meets the recommended meal template. pancakes encourage a meal that is lacking in protein and low in vegetables.

[Lazybonesjones]

Well missmary, as I said above, I don't want the pancakes and wasn't looking for a go ahead to eat them. Simply using them as an example for my question since they seem to be the most popular unapproved paleo food. My question wasn't "Can I eat paleo pancakes?" My question was about making the program more personal to get more personal results.

As far as nutrition goes, I feel like I could easily make some paleo pancake recipes into what would fit in the program's guidelines of nutrition for a meal, same as zucchini noodles. But that's not my point or my question either and since I'm not actually going to make and eat any paleo pancakes while I'm on the program it's also kind of irrelevant. I thought the point of the no pancake/other paleo substitutions for bread and desserts etc had more to do with the psychological aspects of the program rather than nutrition.

I for sure understand how and why the rules are in place and my intent was not to be a rebel and question the rules, I have just spent a lot of time thinking about myself and my reaction to certain foods both physiologically and psychologically and was curious about how other people felt about it.

I don't think any aspect of this program should be changed and I think for the majority of people the rules make complete sense. Following the program to the letter and having all of the supports included makes it much easier to complete something like this rather than trying to make up your own program and go at it by yourself and like GF Chris says questioning what you're eating all the time and always kind of being in that grey area.

I'm just a curious person.

[CRCBN]

I understand exactly what you mean lazybonesjones! (not sure everyone who responded here did, some folks read 'pancakes' and panic to the point of being unable to read anything else)  What is a SWYPO food for one person is a 'meh' food for another.  I did not eat any of the 'paleofied' SWYPO foods specifically mentioned in the book, not because I was afraid that it would be some sort of gate-way back to the darkside. I simply avoided them because those were the rules that I had commited to following for 30 days. 

 

I figured Melissa and Dallas had to make rules with everybody in mind; you and I both know that there are some people out there that would try to live on paleo pancakes and french toast made with paleo bread for 30 days if the rules didn't specifically state NOT to eat  paleofied foods.

 

SWYPO is totally up to an individual though and we have to be responsible for our own choices. Pancakes? Seriously? Where I came from - pancakes were made with buckwheat or corn and were a vehicle to get the meat and gravy to your mouth at dinnertime.....not some sweet sticky syrupy dessert - I was flabbergasted the first time I went into IHOP and saw something that looked like a birthday cake but was described as pancakes .......   I can take or leave pancakes (but the rules are no pancakes so for my Whole30 I was fine with abstaining)

 

I did make a decision to avoid things that the Whole30 world thinks are ok but I considered SWYPO - Mocktails, zoodles, cauliflower rice, plantains, & fritters all screamed SWYPO to me so I just didn't have them.

[AmyS]

I understand exactly what you mean lazybonesjones! (not sure everyone who responded here did, some folks read 'pancakes' and panic to the point of being unable to read anything else)  What is a SWYPO food for one person is a 'meh' food for another.  I did not eat any of the 'paleofied' SWYPO foods specifically mentioned in the book, not because I was afraid that it would be some sort of gate-way back to the darkside. I simply avoided them because those were the rules that I had commited to following for 30 days. 

 

I figured Melissa and Dallas had to make rules with everybody in mind; you and I both know that there are some people out there that would try to live on paleo pancakes and french toast made with paleo bread for 30 days if the rules didn't specifically state NOT to eat  paleofied foods.

 

SWYPO is totally up to an individual though and we have to be responsible for our own choices. Pancakes? Seriously? Where I came from - pancakes were made with buckwheat or corn and were a vehicle to get the meat and gravy to your mouth at dinnertime.....not some sweet sticky syrupy dessert - I was flabbergasted the first time I went into IHOP and saw something that looked like a birthday cake but was described as pancakes .......   I can take or leave pancakes (but the rules are no pancakes so for my Whole30 I was fine with abstaining)

 

I did make a decision to avoid things that the Whole30 world thinks are ok but I considered SWYPO - Mocktails, zoodles, cauliflower rice, plantains, & fritters all screamed SWYPO to me so I just didn't have them.

Yes.  This.  Times a thousand. 

[Robin Strathdee]

I don't think there's anything wrong with asking this question -  sometimes the why helps with the how

 

There are some foods that we know are designed to recreate the taste and texture of foods we know are less healthy - physically and psychologically. That's where pancakes, flourless muffins, paleo bread, etc.come into play.  Foods like cauliflower mash/rice, zoodles and spaghetti squash don't come anywhere near the taste or texture of their processed food counterparts, and don't (usually) elicit the same response. However, like AmyS said, sometimes an individual comes up against a food that really isn't a good choice for them despite being wholly compliant. THAT'S where the personal factor comes in.

 

I hope that helps clear things up a little