depression and whole30.

[Guest]

I am considering going back on anti-depressants, whole30 has helped my moods tremendously, but unfortunately out of nowhere I still get quite dark lows due to external factors. However, I have always suffered really badly with the side effects of them. Has anyone noticed increased effectiveness/reduced side effects from these types of medications alongside a whole30 diet?

 

Thanks

[missmary]

I have not had any experience with this, but I will say I think this is the right move.

 

Good for you on continuing to try and improve your situation. Trying medication is one more piece of this, just be watchful of how you respond. Sometimes it takes a couple attempts for people to find the right medication in the right dose to really help. I wouldn't be surprised if a lower dose was needed eating whole30 vs. what might be needed on top of a SAD diet.

[Guest]

thankyou I have sucked it up and booked a doctor's appointment this afternoon. Going to end up with a prescription in my hand, I know it

[amy3509]

Self awareness seems to be a strength of yours - good for you for finding some clarity in the midst of the fog and being open minded about the path you will take.

 

My anti depressant paired with paleo has been an amazing combo.  I started the medication before getting back to paleo (after a long hiatus).  Once my mood improved I had the energy to take a run at paleo again.  I did a 21dsd (needed rules about the sweet stuff, even w30 compliant sweet stuff ) and then continued on with a set of personal paleo rules afterward (one of which is absolutely no sweetener of any kind.  At all).

 

I don't have any side effects from the meds (they tapered out after 4 weeks on them) and they worked well without paleo, but my new set of personal rules mean that not only am I not depressed, but I am consistently content, less irritable, and feel more joyful than I have in a long time.  The key for me was getting off the sugar entirely.

 

All that said, while I avoid sugars and try to be reasonable about fruit, paleo is not as effective for me for mood when I eat too low carb.  Sweet potatoes and other root veggies are key to me maintaining good mental wellbeing.  It means slower weight loss, but it is still coming off slowly, and that is good enough for me.

 

Sorry, didn't mean to make this about me.  Whoops.  The point I'm trying to make is that I think meds and whole30 can be a good pair.  Perhaps one day I will try to wean off, but right now it isn't worth the risk.  One other thing to consider . . . perhaps the meds you have been on weren't right for you?  Several years back I tried antidepressants (zoloft) for the first time and had lots of side effects (including emotional numbness - not sad, but not happy either, even on a very low dose).  I swore I would never try them again . . . but things got real bad close to a year ago and I needed to give it a go, so I went to the Dr and had a very long conversation, weighing the various medication options.  His patience and thoroughness was key to finding me the right meds.  We chose Welbutrin (which works on an entirely different hormone than zoloft) and that is what I'm on now.  It is a perfect fit for me.  I would suggest to you that if you try meds and end up with a ton of side effects that trying another kind is in order.

 

Best of luck with your decision.  It isn't an easy one.  We all want paleo eating and living the '9 factors' to be enough - we hear about people going off of meds of all kinds and it can feel like meds shouldn't be necessary for us either.  Sometimes, though, it is good to remember that we are all dealt different cards in this life and we can't compare ourselves to others.  For me, success is a depression lifted and good health . . .even if it means meds. I can't rewrite history - my brain was developed far before I had any control over it and it's all I've got.  Change the things you can and accept what you can't, right?

[Guest]

thankyou

 

just an update - I've been put on fluoxetine. I've been on 3 different meds before that haven't worked - citalopram, sertraline and venlafaxine. Yesterday I noticed I had fewer side effects than expected (they normally wipe me out completely) *fingers crossed* this continues.

[KatyR]

I can't speak from experience of being on an anti-depressant as well as the Whole30 yet (I just started my first W30 yesterday). But I've been on zoloft for months now and it's helped me come up from a bad place. I'm hoping the Whole30 takes me to a new level of wellness when it comes to my depression and anxiety issues. Time will tell!

[EmilyK]

I'm fairly early on in my first whole30 but I can speak for running the gamut of different medications trying to find one I could tolerate.  I finally settled on fluoxetine as well, and am hoping that the dietary changes I'm making will work in tandem to make me feel even better.

 

Antidepressants are like running shoes--my favorite may be awful for you, and vice versa.  Trial and error, patience and self-awareness are the keys to finding your fit.

[greenhm]

Medication does not treat the root cause of what is making you feel depressed, anxious, and so on. Medication only treats symptoms and can provide some relief that way. But there is no magic bullet. Depression may be a sign that something is missing in your life, that you might not be living by your values. Or you may have lost a lot, something or someone important, or may be a question of identity (who am I? What is my purpose?).

 

Exercise has been shown to treat depression more effectively than any medication across the board according to the research; also therapy is shown to prevent relapse (whereas medication does not). There is also a lot of research connecting inflammation as a physiological cause of depression. There are often many side effects to the drugs as well. Brains are 'plastic' and can be rewired. Although I can't tell you what to do in terms of your medication, I wanted to add to the conversation .

 

I am on Day 19 and have personally felt improvements in my mood and anxiety ! I don't have brain fog, I have more energy, my mood is more consistent. We are human, we're going to have the whole range of emotions and ups and downs. Context matters; finding the root of what is making us feel anxious or depressed is so important.

[missmary]

Thanks for your perspective Greenhm, but I want to come in with a reminder that everyone has a different experience. For SOME people, mindset and diet can change everything. For some people talk therapy works really well, but for some people at some times in their lives, medication is the right solution. It is important not to imply that all depressed people can just "rewire their own brain" and get better with diet and exercise. The person who needs medication does not need it because they failed to try hard enough to change things.

 

The whole30 is a great thing for many of us, and it has definitely helped me with my hormones and my moods, but the whole30 alone is not enough for everyone. and that is ok.

[greenhm]

I am not implying those things, you are inferring. Medication has its place and can be helpful, people can have success with it. However, my caution is that it is misused, overprescribed, and sold to us as a 'cure all'. I did not say that people who use medication do so because they aren't trying other ways or have failed in some way. It is a fact that we can rewire our brains, including people who are depressed, have had a traumatic brain injury, or have a neurodegenerative condition. I did not say that the only way to do this is through diet and exercise, but those are paramount in treating depression. I am also not saying doing a Whole30 will cure your depression. But if there were a natural way to go at this, I'd rather advocate for that than meds unless necessary. Diet, movement, therapy (which isn't just talking), close relationships, support networks, family, feeling appreciated at work, treating yourself with compassion, your sense of self worth, hope (or lack thereof), and so much more...looking at the whole person and their context by no way implies I'm saying everyone is the same. Quite the opposite...

[MeadowLily]

FourSimpleWords - wherever you are, I hope things are better.

[ladyshanny]

I am not implying those things, you are inferring. Medication has its place and can be helpful, people can have success with it. However, my caution is that it is misused, overprescribed, and sold to us as a 'cure all'. I did not say that people who use medication do so because they aren't trying other ways or have failed in some way. It is a fact that we can rewire our brains, including people who are depressed, have had a traumatic brain injury, or have a neurodegenerative condition. I did not say that the only way to do this is through diet and exercise, but those are paramount in treating depression. I am also not saying doing a Whole30 will cure your depression. But if there were a natural way to go at this, I'd rather advocate for that than meds unless necessary. Diet, movement, therapy (which isn't just talking), close relationships, support networks, family, feeling appreciated at work, treating yourself with compassion, your sense of self worth, hope (or lack thereof), and so much more...looking at the whole person and their context by no way implies I'm saying everyone is the same. Quite the opposite...

Sometimes people aren't trying. At all. Because the blackness and depths of their depression prevents them from doing any such thing. Even with "mild" depression, sometimes people just have to get through their day any way they can and cooking healthy food or going for a walk around the block is so far from being an option that it's laughable.

 

I get where you're coming from, that mental health is also whole-body health but unfortunately those two often do not go hand in hand without the help of some medication to rebalance the hormones and chemicals in the brain. Everyone's point where medication becomes "necessary" is at a different stage and can look differently from the outside.

 

I'm sorry, this whole discussion on medication vs diet/exercise is really rubbing my rhubarb the wrong way because even if it sounds good on paper (get some fresh air, eat better, rewire your brain), in practice it is not always as successful as we might wish.  And anyone who has taken the huge step of admitting that they are in a bad place and need help needs a hug and encouragement and affirmation that the choice that they made was the right one for them in that moment.  Not a discussion on how they could be doing it better.

[Laurie]

missmary and ladyshanny - thank you for your great posts.

 

Depression is painful. It is not easy to cure.  It is powerful and often makes it's sufferers feel powerless.  I experience this low feeling way too often. I know the pain, the hurt, the struggle. I take antidepressants and will probably take them for the rest of my life.  I've tried getting off the medication and going natural - healthy foods, exercise, therapy and that combination did not work.  I was extremely depressed.  If the brain chemistry is off, I don't think the brain can be rewired by alternative means - at least, my brain can't.  Medication can be very beneficial in taking the edge off and erasing those dark clouds. However, even with medication, I experience lows but at least I am not drowning.  When you are low, everything you have to do is extremely difficult.  If you have not experienced this pain, you just may not understand.

 

Whole 30 is great and I highly recommend it.  Nourish your body with healthy whole foods but also nourish your mind with medication if you need it. 

 

ladyshanny - your words touched me deeply.  You understand.

[Run2you]

I am not implying those things, you are inferring. Medication has its place and can be helpful, people can have success with it. However, my caution is that it is misused, overprescribed, and sold to us as a 'cure all'. I did not say that people who use medication do so because they aren't trying other ways or have failed in some way. It is a fact that we can rewire our brains, including people who are depressed, have had a traumatic brain injury, or have a neurodegenerative condition. I did not say that the only way to do this is through diet and exercise, but those are paramount in treating depression. I am also not saying doing a Whole30 will cure your depression. But if there were a natural way to go at this, I'd rather advocate for that than meds unless necessary. Diet, movement, therapy (which isn't just talking), close relationships, support networks, family, feeling appreciated at work, treating yourself with compassion, your sense of self worth, hope (or lack thereof), and so much more...looking at the whole person and their context by no way implies I'm saying everyone is the same. Quite the opposite...

 

Someone had to stand up and say that the answer isn't another pill. Thank you.  

 

And you're right, that exercise is just as effective of a cure for depression as zoloft or any other drug. But there's no money in healthy people.

 

If people believe they really need to take all the drugs the pharmaceutical industry says they do, then they're already on drugs.Pharmaceutical ads like to say "when diet and exercise fail, try abilify or asendin or adapin". And that's just the A's. Only problem is diet and exercise don't fail. I don't think they should even be allowed to advertise for prescription medication. As someone who's suffered from severe depression since forever that medication made very little difference for me. Finding someone who made me happy and getting back outdoors and exercising played a far more pivotal role in controlling my depression than any pill I took. So ask your doctor if getting off your ass is right for you.

 

I've always had my suspicions that most prescription drugs are nothing more than a placebo. I'm skeptical of anything that requires I fork over money in exchange for something that should come naturally. Whether its a gym membership to get fit , bottled water to be healthy, or antidepressants to be fit. If I want to be fit I can run outside for free. I don't need a gym membership to access their treadmills. If I want water I can get it from the tap. And if you want happiness, it wont come from a pill. If you're lonely like I was the only cure is meeting someone. A pill is not a companion. 

 

Depression is a horrible part of life. But it's a part of it nonetheless. I've suffered with it for as long as I can remember. But I've had it because I'm missing a lot in my life that a person needs in order to be healthy. One thing I'm not missing is another bottle of pills. And one of the worst aspects of antidepressants is how hard it is to get off of them. Once you're on them , you basically have to stay on them because abruptly stopping could kill you. If the side effects are that dangerous, maybe it's worth considering another option.

 

However, getting the motivation to even get up in the morning to get those things that are missing in your life is where depression gets tricky. It's also where the pharmaceutical industry convinces people that medication is the answer to that problem. But as you pointed out there are natural alternatives that don't cost a thing that can yield the exact same results. Even to go get your pills you have to get out of bed first. So once you're out of bed, instead of reaching for the pills maybe reach for an alternative solution instead. Like going out for a walk. Laugh if you want, but it works just as good. And if you're lucky enough to have someone in your life, then you have someone to walk with. Which is even better.

[papayarain]

There is so much more to mental illness than exercising and finding what you are "missing". I guess  my schizophrenic sister in law should have just exercised a bit more and my grandmother should have just gotten out of bed and listened to the birds chirp instead of trying to commit suicide, which, according to you, was an option to consider so she could avoid the side effects of a drug. 

[MeadowLily]

Thousands of people are living on the streets because of depression and mental illness.   There are veterans sleeping on the ground with no place to call their home.  Their safety is at risk.  They may walk for hours every day seeking uncrowded shelter.   Exercise is not their anwser. Housing first and compassionate care.   Our Whole 30 friends need compassion and a judgment free zone.

[missmary]

addressing mental illness is a serious and complex issue outside of the scope of the whole30 forum. We welcome those who choose to take medication and those who choose not to; those who exercise and find it helpful, and those who do not.

 

Everyone has a different context.

[Laurie]

Run2you - maybe in order to get out of bed, we need to reach for our pills.  As stated before, when depression is severe, daily functioning is extremely difficult.

 

Where is the love, support and compassion?

[heyheynicolep]

Wow, I am so impressed by how brave so many of you are to talk openly about depression. I applaud you! I think that's a major problem with the disease - we don't talk about it! People that suffer from depression are too shy or embarrassed to talk about it and people that don't suffer from depression don't always take it seriously and recognize it as an actual disease. It runs in my family and I suspected I suffered from it for years before actually seeking help because I just didn't want to admit that I had it. But now I take 150mg of Welbutrin and am on Day 3 of my first Whole30 and I feel really optimistic about things. Reading these forums has been immensely helpful to my fears and anxiety about this program. 

 

So again, thank you so much to all you brave and strong folks! 

[SugarcubeOD]

Someone had to stand up and say that the answer isn't another pill. Thank you.  

 

And you're right, that exercise is just as effective of a cure for depression as zoloft or any other drug. But there's no money in healthy people.

 

If people believe they really need to take all the drugs the pharmaceutical industry says they do, then they're already on drugs.Pharmaceutical ads like to say "when diet and exercise fail, try abilify or asendin or adapin". And that's just the A's. Only problem is diet and exercise don't fail. I don't think they should even be allowed to advertise for prescription medication. As someone who's suffered from severe depression since forever that medication made very little difference for me. Finding someone who made me happy and getting back outdoors and exercising played a far more pivotal role in controlling my depression than any pill I took. So ask your doctor if getting off your ass is right for you.

 

I've always had my suspicions that most prescription drugs are nothing more than a placebo. I'm skeptical of anything that requires I fork over money in exchange for something that should come naturally. Whether its a gym membership to get fit , bottled water to be healthy, or antidepressants to be fit. If I want to be fit I can run outside for free. I don't need a gym membership to access their treadmills. If I want water I can get it from the tap. And if you want happiness, it wont come from a pill. If you're lonely like I was the only cure is meeting someone. A pill is not a companion. 

 

Depression is a horrible part of life. But it's a part of it nonetheless. I've suffered with it for as long as I can remember. But I've had it because I'm missing a lot in my life that a person needs in order to be healthy. One thing I'm not missing is another bottle of pills. And one of the worst aspects of antidepressants is how hard it is to get off of them. Once you're on them , you basically have to stay on them because abruptly stopping could kill you. If the side effects are that dangerous, maybe it's worth considering another option.

 

However, getting the motivation to even get up in the morning to get those things that are missing in your life is where depression gets tricky. It's also where the pharmaceutical industry convinces people that medication is the answer to that problem. But as you pointed out there are natural alternatives that don't cost a thing that can yield the exact same results. Even to go get your pills you have to get out of bed first. So once you're out of bed, instead of reaching for the pills maybe reach for an alternative solution instead. Like going out for a walk. Laugh if you want, but it works just as good. And if you're lucky enough to have someone in your life, then you have someone to walk with. Which is even better.

I didn't need a pharmaceutical company to 'convince' me that I needed to be on SSRI's.  I've been W30 for 2 years now... My diet and exercise is great.  When I started having thoughts of how to 'get off this ride' because it was so miserable and dark and lonely (and I don't mean lonely because I'm single... I mean the horrific loneliness that comes with the darkness of depression... a boyfriend isn't going to fix that for me), that's when I sought help and that help included counselling, time off work and... wait for it... pills.  Exactly how much MORE exercise should I have done and how much cleaner than Whole30 should I have managed my diet in order to pull myself up by my boot straps?  I'm seriously asking... 

I'm extremely offended by the implication that the 'only' thing 'wrong' with me is that something is missing in my life and I'm not trying hard enough.  EXTREMELY OFFENDED.  To the point of tears.  At work. 

 

I think if you want to talk about mental health and mental illness, you should be darn sure you're being as compassionate as possible, because you have no idea who's reading your thoughts and generalizations can do a LOT of damage.

[praxisproject]

Depression and depression are two very different things, just as Diabetes and liking cake are two different things.

 

Some people can correct imbalances with changes to diet, some get improvements, some people need more chemical help and sometimes chemical help still isn't enough.

 

You can't "motivate" away a chemical imbalance, just like wishing won't replace insulin or dialysis.

 

There are things every human needs to function, but not everyone has everything in working order, every day.

 

It takes a lot of courage to talk about mental illness when there is still so much outdated stigma around.

Compassion isn't a malfunction, so everyone should have enough for everyone else.

 

Be strong, every day there are warriors fighting their bodies and winning. Keep fighting the good fight.

[bronnyd]

Sometimes people aren't trying. At all. Because the blackness and depths of their depression prevents them from doing any such thing. Even with "mild" depression, sometimes people just have to get through their day any way they can and cooking healthy food or going for a walk around the block is so far from being an option that it's laughable.

 

I get where you're coming from, that mental health is also whole-body health but unfortunately those two often do not go hand in hand without the help of some medication to rebalance the hormones and chemicals in the brain. Everyone's point where medication becomes "necessary" is at a different stage and can look differently from the outside.

 

I'm sorry, this whole discussion on medication vs diet/exercise is really rubbing my rhubarb the wrong way because even if it sounds good on paper (get some fresh air, eat better, rewire your brain), in practice it is not always as successful as we might wish.  And anyone who has taken the huge step of admitting that they are in a bad place and need help needs a hug and encouragement and affirmation that the choice that they made was the right one for them in that moment.  Not a discussion on how they could be doing it better.

 

Wow this is such a great topic - Thank You, foursimplewords, for your honesty and for starting this thread. I think everyone has made really good points, esp. ladyshanny who I think hit it spot on. Yes pharmaceuticals are over-prescribed and YES they also help. It's not a perfect system. All we can do is stay aware of how we can best serve ourselves so that we can live and thrive in healthy, fulfilling lives and communities. Antidepressants don't have to be forever. 

And sometimes, they do - sometimes lithium or prozac is something that can keep a person stable for the rest of their lives, like a vitamins and fish oil. 

 

I've dealt with major depression and found medication and meditation to be two primary salvations. Medication helped for a while. What I found really helped were three things: 1. Al-anon 12 step meetings, 2. meditation,(Buddhism is a philosophy, not a religion) and 3. music. And yes, diet is major too. So 4 things. Music is actually a major salvation. But I didn't truly find that salvation until I started meds, went to al-anon and eventually found meditation and became aware of how diet affected my life.

I'm no longer taking meds,no longer broke, no longer lonely and no longer clinically depressed, but I've been there. Whatever your situation, foursimplewords, how can you serve yourself? By serving others, like volunteering in some fashion? Getting busy? Taking a break, taking more time for yourself? Getting a massage? Buying yourself flowers? Eating more greens? Taking necessary medication? Enjoying your breath? There is no one answer. What do you like to do? Gardening, crocheting, painting? How can you honor the beauty in yourself that wants to manifest? 

 

Keep on, one day at a time.

[SusanInPhoenix]

Boy I am posting today everywhere on the forum I am reading about depression. Have you been tested for thyroid? Being diagnosed as hypothyroid was probably the best day of my life.

I have a long way to go, but I don't know myself any more, but in a positive way.

Right now I am combining my thyroid meds, diet, magnesium, and my depression Meetup group.

I have to say I am only following Whole30/Paleo about 50%, but I am not going to guilt myself over it. Guilt solves nothing, only makes the situation worse.

If you are interested in learning more about magnesium and you belong to Facebook, join the Magnesium Advocacy Group.

Also if you are not on Meetup, it is also a great website. Search for mental health groups.

Susan

[joyfulanarchist]

I'm grateful for this thread. I know medications can be helpful, especially if the depression's gained a stronghold in one's life, and even psychiatrists I'd expect to be against them - Jon Kabat-Zinn, for example - advocate their use in these extreme situations. So yeah, if you have zero motivation and you can't will yourself to take some of the actions listed above (to exercise, etc.), maybe use them to kickstart the recovery. But I guess I would be leary of taking them "forever." I just don't buy the brain chemistry imbalance. Human evolution is extremely slow (though there's some argument that rates of mutation are speeding up), and I can't believe such huge percentage of us (I think over 20% of people are on some kind of psychiatric medicine) went crazy in the late 20th century. What's changed, insanely rapidly, in a way that makes coping difficult, is life itself. There have been more changes to the way we eat in last 30 years than in the previous 30,000 (so argues author of Fast Food Nation). And other aspects of our lives have changed just as profoundly. And I guess I'm one of the people ill suited to life in late stage capitlism. I'm not naturally competitive, I don't thrive in competitive environments, I think I'd be better off in a tribe than on my own, etc., etc. So I am stubbornly NOT medicating my dis-ease because I just refuse to believe the problem is internal and not external. I'm like, anything but medication. Not judging people who make a different choice, but we who refuse to take medication also need support in our choices.

[SugarcubeOD]

. Not judging people who make a different choice, but we who refuse to take medication also need support in our choices.

I think the difference between what you're saying and what the people that some took offense to were saying is this... you're not judging... everyone needs support for this type of disease, regardless of the way we choose to heal/manage it.  But to be degraded and spoken down to about how we're not 'trying hard enough' was were the problem was...

 

I think choosing to manage a difficult disease through holistic measures is laudable and I wish you all the best in feeling better!