Katsass

A few questions about autoimmunity.

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Hi everyone, my apologies if these questions have been answered before - there's a lot of material here and I'm new! But anyway, a bit of background - I've had issues with "mystery aches", indigestion, headaches, nausea, low energy for several years...many of which have been improving since going 100% gluten free a month ago. My TSH level is subclinical (6) despite the other numbers being within range, and my doc doesn't want to put me on meds, thankfully.

Unfortunately, he also thinks I should go on a vegan diet and reduce my cholesterol, despite it being within normal range.

Anyway, I decided to completely ignore him and start a Whole30. It's day 13 and I'm really enjoying it! So far it's been great, very few issues, barely any cravings...despite this, I keep seeing stuff about an autoimmune protocol, and how eggs are inflammatory (is this true?).

Based on my symptoms, am I a candidate for that protocol? I have no idea whether I actually have autoimmune disease, since I'm obviously gluten intolerant but not sure if I'm celiac. I've been eating eggs almost every day, plus nightshades like crazy, and spices. No problems at all, so is there something I should be looking for when I eat these foods? They're a big part of my Whole30 so I wonder if I should be concerned. Hopefully I have nothing to worry about, since I've already removed a lot of foods from my diet!

Thanks :)

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What we recommend here is that you do a general whole 30 first.  Then if you feel you have outstanding issues with autoimmunity disorders then do a AI protocol whole 30.

 

Personally I have never done a AIP whole 30.  But I do have Autoimmune issues as well in the form of 2 skin disorders.  Eliminating dairy was a big factor for me.  I do better if I go light on the nightshades - meaning I can eat and tolerate them about once or twice a week. But I need to stay away from eggplant specifically.  It causes my joints to ache.  I also cannot handle nuts - at all - if I want to sleep at night.

 

Basically if you want to do a AIP after this whole 30 to figure out some outstanding issues - it's up to you.

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Eggs are not inflammatory unless you have a specific sensitivity to them. Most people do not. If you were sensitive to eggs, you would probably know it. I eat 3 jumbo eggs almost every day and have for years. Most people do not need to do an autoimmune protocol Whole30. Don't worry about it and enjoy your eggs. 

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Hi everyone, my apologies if these questions have been answered before - there's a lot of material here and I'm new! But anyway, a bit of background - I've had issues with "mystery aches", indigestion, headaches, nausea, low energy for several years...many of which have been improving since going 100% gluten free a month ago. My TSH level is subclinical (6) despite the other numbers being within range, and my doc doesn't want to put me on meds, thankfully.

Unfortunately, he also thinks I should go on a vegan diet and reduce my cholesterol, despite it being within normal range.

Anyway, I decided to completely ignore him and start a Whole30. It's day 13 and I'm really enjoying it! So far it's been great, very few issues, barely any cravings...despite this, I keep seeing stuff about an autoimmune protocol, and how eggs are inflammatory (is this true?).

Based on my symptoms, am I a candidate for that protocol? I have no idea whether I actually have autoimmune disease, since I'm obviously gluten intolerant but not sure if I'm celiac. I've been eating eggs almost every day, plus nightshades like crazy, and spices. No problems at all, so is there something I should be looking for when I eat these foods? They're a big part of my Whole30 so I wonder if I should be concerned. Hopefully I have nothing to worry about, since I've already removed a lot of foods from my diet!

Thanks :)

 

 

The first thing I must say is that eggs are one of the most allergenic foods with approximately 2-3% of the population affected.

 

See: http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/06/whys-behind-autoimmune-protocol-eggs.html

 

Second of all there are some good AIP threads on the forum, find them here:

http://forum.whole9life.com/topic/19094-need-help-doing-aip-whole30-tips-tricks-howtos/?hl=whole30

 

and here: 

http://forum.whole9life.com/topic/19574-whole30-aip/?hl=whole30

 

I have two auto immune conditions, one very serious, and have found that going AIP dramatically transformed the way I felt  - way more than a Whole 30. I have an enormous amount more energy and a sense of overall wellness that I did not have before, OR on the Whole 30 (and I did a Whole 60). 

 

You won't know if you need to remove eggs, nightshades etc until you've removed them for 6-8 weeks on AIP, and then reintroduced them just like the principles of the W30.  If you haven't been diagnosed with an auto immune disorder then start with a Whole 30. If your symptoms don't resolve then try AIP. 

 

As an FYI, I used to eat eggs and nightshades all the time, and had no idea I was sensitive to them but I am. I was a salsa addict and ate it every single day. No more. Again, of course. the same principles as Whole 30 apply to these inflammatory foods and you won't know until you remove and re introduce.  

 

If what was said above "If you were sensitive to eggs, you would probably know it"  were true then none of us would need to ever do an elimination diet and Whole 30 would be rendered useless. We could all say "Hey, I eat gluten all the time but if I were sensitive, I'd probably know it, so I'll just keep eating it, I'm sure it will be fine". I'm astonished to read this cavalier blanket statement and this goes directly against the principles of any elimination eating program. 

 

Its best to really do your research with people who are very familiar with AIP and have auto immune conditions to which they are applying it - our lives are at stake so we take it very seriously!  Its unfortunate that there is so much misinformation being spread out there about AIP. Feel free to message me if you have more questions. 

 

Have a look at these websites, these are primary resources for AIP:

 

http://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol

http://aiplifestyle.com/what-is-autoimmune-protocol-diet/

http://www.phoenixhelix.com/paleo-autoimmune-protocol/

http://autoimmune-paleo.com/about/

 

Also just as an FYI, no one way of eating works for every single person. I know several people who have cured their fibromyalgia by going raw vegan. Something to think about. Only you know how you feel eating a certain way.

 

I don't eat any eggs and have never done a Whole 30 with eggs. It is very easy to find other things to eat for breakfast. Just eat a meal, plain and simple. Here are 30 ideas for an egg free Whole 30 breakfast:

http://meatified.com/30-days-whole-30-breakfasts/

 

Best of luck. 

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Thanks everyone! I think for now, based on your replies, I'll stick with the basic Whole30, since I'm already feeling much better already, just after cutting out gluten and starting this program.

@Carlaccini, sounds like a great way to go about it - best to not take too much on at once!

@Tom, I figure you're right & I won't have to worry about them - so many opposing views online got me a bit paranoid. So far, there aren't any (detectable issues) so hopefully there are no food sensitivities other than gluten. I don't know how I'd do this program without eggs for breakfast! So I'll keep enjoying them and look into the whole AIP thing in the future if there are still issues.

@Deb, thanks very much for the links - much appreciated :) I'll look into them for sure and will certainly message you if I have any concerns. My biggest worry has been whether I even have an autoimmune disorder, since I have a few related symptoms but not enough to point at any particular disease, at least from a standard doctor's point of view.

It's really great to know that there's such a supportive group of people in this forum. Thanks again :)

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@Deb, I meant to add in the last post that I'm really happy you found a diet that works for you and that you're doing so much better now. It's always uplifting to hear success stories!

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@Katsass, thanks for opening this... these questions are on mind as well. 

 

I have an auto-immune 'issue', meaning that my blood-tests are postive for auto-immunity, but the numbers are too low for the rheumatogists to take a look at me. I have inflammation somewhere pretty much all the time, but mostly in my lower back and hips. On Day 5 the inflammation disappeared from my middle finger, this is good  :) Now I'm Day 12, achey, and patient...

I was also wondering about the egg thing, but think the advice above is good: do the Whole30 first and see what happens. Personally, I'm skipping the nightshades and also the seeds which were a big part of my pre-Whole30 diet. But I can't get my head around reducing eggs at this point.

 

@ Deb thanks for posting those links. What does FYI stand for?

 

Best wishes,

A

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@Katsass, thanks for opening this... these questions are on mind as well. 

 

I have an auto-immune 'issue', meaning that my blood-tests are postive for auto-immunity, but the numbers are too low for the rheumatogists to take a look at me. I have inflammation somewhere pretty much all the time, but mostly in my lower back and hips. On Day 5 the inflammation disappeared from my middle finger, this is good  :) Now I'm Day 12, achey, and patient...

I was also wondering about the egg thing, but think the advice above is good: do the Whole30 first and see what happens. Personally, I'm skipping the nightshades and also the seeds which were a big part of my pre-Whole30 diet. But I can't get my head around reducing eggs at this point.

 

@ Deb thanks for posting those links. What does FYI stand for?

 

Best wishes,

A

 

FYI means  -  for your information

 

Giving up eggs is easier than you think, I promise. I really don't miss them at all. 

For breakfast I eat the same as I would eat for lunch or dinner. 

I found a great egg free mayo recipe using coconut butter. 

 

Another FYI, in my experience, the Whole 30 staff will never fully encourage doing anything other than Whole 30, for obvious reasons. 

I met with resistance when I first started asking about AIP, but thanks to great forum members, was able to navigate around that. 

The auto immune protocol is workable, but its not always easy. Doing it with the addition of Whole 30 restrictions makes it harder but not that much harder than it already is! Its nice to have the support of the community that's on these forums and there are a few people always trying AIP.

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FYI means  -  for your information

 

Giving up eggs is easier than you think, I promise. I really don't miss them at all. 

For breakfast I eat the same as I would eat for lunch or dinner. 

I found a great egg free mayo recipe using coconut butter. 

 

Another FYI, in my experience, the Whole 30 staff will never fully encourage doing anything other than Whole 30, for obvious reasons. 

I met with resistance when I first started asking about AIP, but thanks to great forum members, was able to navigate around that. 

The auto immune protocol is workable, but its not always easy. Doing it with the addition of Whole 30 restrictions makes it harder but not that much harder than it already is! Its nice to have the support of the community that's on these forums and there are a few people always trying AIP.

Deb  you should move to my house for a few days to get me on track, hehehe...

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I did whole 30 for September and am now doing it AIP in October.  Day 6 now.  Thanks for posting links.  Very helpful.  Making breakfast sausage right now.  Will have that with sauteed spinach and scallions and some raw vegies.  Not missing eggs so much. Eating a lot of dinner leftovers for breakfast and lunch.  3 different chicken meals yesterday!  Would really love a great mayo substitute.  Made coconut butter with coconut flakes I had on hand using this link:  http://www.mygutsy.com/how-to-make-coconut-butter/

 

and made a "mayo" recipe with that and olive oil, etc. from this link:  

http://empoweredsustenance.com/egg-free-mayonnaise-recipe/

 

It was a little too garlicky for my chicken salad but would be a great dressing or dip.  Maybe 1/2 the garlic would be better.  

 

Feeling like first whole 30 at this point:  achy, tired, irritable - getting better now that I've got some food ideas down.  Hope to lose more weight, congestion, inflammation.  

 

I lost 15 lbs. last month.  So pleasantly surprised.  But not having the energy everyone's talking about. Or the lack of allergy symptoms, etc.  Hoping for more improvement by end of October.  I'm still not tempted by much.  Not snacking, no treats, alcohol.  3 meals a day.  

But seriously, if anyone has the best faux mayo ever please send me the recipe!!  

Thanks!

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Katsass - You may see improvements from the no-gluten for several years yet :) I like you, had some "mystery" problems that had the docs baffled. No gluten, no problems! :) One warning, if anyone wants you to do the celiac test, read up on it first, the results are pretty dodgy and it may make you very ill. It took me ages to recover from my failed attempt, I just couldn't eat the amount of gluten required for the biopsy.

 

I didn't try a full AIP, but I did do some experiments with eggs and nightshades. I found free range organic eggs agree with me much more than the cage kind, which I suspect is from what they feed them. I did see some improvements in cutting down nightshades, but I didn't get any more improvements with none at all :)

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Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that celiac testing is probably not the best option for me. It seems silly to have to reintroduce gluten for a month and deal with the side effects for a possible sketchy positive. Even my doctor thinks the testing is abysmal and he's very mainstream. I think in this case it's easier to self-diagnose by trusting our bodies' reactions.

So far, after being off gluten for almost 2 months and after doing a whole30, I've improved significantly in several ways (unfortunately, I'm not feeling so great right now because I'm in the midst of reintroduction, but that will pass).

I'm curious about the autoimmune protocol because I didn't omit eggs, seeds, nuts or nightshades during the whole30. In fact, I consumed them daily and still do. If I'm improving, I wonder if it's overkill to omit these foods or if giving my body more time to heal is enough. As Tom mentioned, if they aren't bothering me, why omit them? But then, in other posts, it's suggested that we have no way of knowing a food is problematic until we eliminate it for a bit. Maybe one at a time instead of the whole AIP in my case, if at all (?).

The thing is, I'm eating waaaaay more eggs now (mostly free range) and more of the other AIP foods too, since I used to fill up with more grains and fewer veggies & healthy fats. So it would seem that after such an increase, if my body is still responding ok, I likely don't have issues with these foods - any thoughts?

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Honestly? Just a lil tough love reading btw the lines here - I sense that you don't really want to do AIP and you want to justify not doing it. I understand. AIP looks intimidating. I promise you its easier than you think. And can take you to a level of health you never thought possible. 

 

But let me reiterate again - none of us know that we're sensitive to certain foods until we eliminate them and reintroduce them. That is the premise upon which Whole 30 is built. To suggest otherwise goes against everything W30 is built on. 

 

AIP builds upon that very same premise.  You eliminate additional foods, heal your gut, and reintroduce foods to see what you're sensitive to. 

 

I too consumed eggs, seeds, nuts and nightshades daily during W30. I too felt fine while doing it. 

When I went AIP I easily eliminated these from my diet, and felt significantly better. 

 

Before you did W30 you probably ate legumes, soy, maybe dairy and gluten every day and felt ok as well. 

Now you've eliminated them, presumably tried a reintro, and made a knowledgable elimination of what causes problems. 

 

Your health and choices are always 100% up to you. 

My 2c, try AIP. Try it even just for a month. Its really not that hard and there is a TON of support out there on the web. 

 

But seriously, if you don't want to do it, don't beat yourself up, just decide its not where you're at right now. 

You're already way ahead of the game. Keep up the good work! 

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I did AIP for 3 months, then started reintroductions. I have mild psoriasis. I didn't see any improvement on AIP, and in fact it continued to get worse. I started taking LDN (Low Dose Naltrexone) and started seeing improvement right away. I started reintroducing things (eggs first, then black pepper, then coffee, then grass-fed dairy, then chocolate, then started working on seeds and nuts) and eggs were fine, pepper was fine, everything seemed mostly fine, but after a while I noticed my psoriasis was no longer improving. It wasn't getting worse either, just kind of holding steady. Then I derailed a little and for about 2 weeks binged on sugar and AIP baked goods. I had a huge psoriasis flair. I went back to strict AIP (kept eggs and pepper though) and it's starting to calm down again. 

 

On the bright side, if you just have a mild, delayed reaction to something, there's a good chance you can heal your sensitivity if you avoid the offending food until the immune cells that "remember" that kind of thing die off. It usually takes about 6 months.

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... if you avoid the offending food until the immune cells that "remember" that kind of thing die off. It usually takes about 6 months.

 

 Is this why the suggestion with AIP is to eliminate for 3 months, instead of just the 30 days for the Whole30?

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I'm curious about the autoimmune protocol because I didn't omit eggs, seeds, nuts or nightshades during the whole30. In fact, I consumed them daily and still do. If I'm improving, I wonder if it's overkill to omit these foods or if giving my body more time to heal is enough... if my body is still responding ok, I likely don't have issues with these foods - any thoughts?

 

Katsass - I know exactly where you're at because I'm sort of in the same place. Deb's comment above is right on - it's ok to not be ready.

I'm feeling better after my first Whole30, and I am slowly making my way closer to the AIP. Slowly. I know I'm not ready to commit right at the moment - we picked 18 kilos of walnuts last month, and Francy gave us 24 farm eggs last week! And I'm going to India for 2 weeks in November, which will put a big dent in all of my new eating practices. It's just not the right time. But, as I did with the Whole30, I'm exploring, reading, learning... yes, convincing myself that this will be the next step, it will be a good thing, and I'm trying to get my head around the extra limitations. Fortunately, my man is ready and willing to give the AIP a go as well ... so much easier in two! But we probably won't start until mid January. Until then it will be Whole30 and Paleo.

 

Good luck with your choices!

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I have an autoimmune disease (Behcet's) and I have done the AIP. What I have found is that after I cleaned my body out of all the toxins, I added the foods back that I was restricting and monitored by body's reaction for 72 hours to see if I had a reaction or flare. Eggs don't give me any issues. However, nuts do. It is really a person to person reaction. There is no research showing that eggs cause inflammation in everyone (unlike sugar). I would say, listen to your body and what it has to say. But give your body a good 72 hours to react to a food as it can be a delayed reaction.

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Guest Jense58

Katsass - You may see improvements from the no-gluten for several years yet :) I like you, had some "mystery" problems that had the docs baffled. No gluten, no problems! :) One warning, if anyone wants you to do the celiac test, read up on it first, the results are pretty dodgy and it may make you very ill. It took me ages to recover from my failed attempt, I just couldn't eat the amount of gluten required for the biopsy.

 

I didn't try a full AIP, but I did do some experiments with eggs and nightshades. I found free range organic eggs agree with me much more than the cage kind, which I suspect is from what they feed them. I did see some improvements in cutting down nightshades, but I didn't get any more improvements with none at all :)

 

I am definitely going with the AI protocol.  I like your comment about eggs ---- "what they feed them".  Very true!  Mostly I stick with duck eggs rather than chicken, but I can eat some chicken eggs depending upon where I source them ... in my case directly from a farm.  I feel very fortunate to live where I can do this AND also where I can find duck eggs.  I must stay away from gluten and nightshades.  I'm a newbie so this will be very interesting to see how it goes!

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