KETwhOle30

[MeadowLily]

 

Why ketogenic?

Your body gets its energy from either fats, or carbohydrates like glucose and glycogen.  In people eating normally, at rest, 60% of the energy comes from fats.  In a ketogenic diet, the carbohydrate content of the diet is so low that the body has to break down even more of its fat to supply energy needed by most tissues.  Fat breakdown produces ketone bodies in the bloodstream.  Hence, “ketogenic diet.”  Also called “very low-carb diets,” ketogenic diets have been around for over a hundred years. 

There are several practical advantages over other diets (disputed by some authorities):

• simplicity
• unlimited access to many high-protein and good fats
• less trouble with hunger
• lower blood sugar levels, which is important to people with diabetes, pre-diabetes, and metabolic syndrome
• reduced insulin levels in people who often have elevated levels (hyperinsulinemia), which may help reduce chronic diseases like type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, some cancers, and coronary heart disease
• improved levels of HDL cholesterol and triglycerides, which may reduce risk of heart disease
• it obviously works well for a significant portion of the overweight population

[MeadowLily]

http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/6314/581-the-whole30s-dallas-and-melissa-hartwig-say-it-starts-with-food/

 

 

Dallas and Melissa

[MeadowLily]

Melissa Hartwig

Whole9 Head Diesel

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 01:23 PM

Folks mostly have it down here. Based on your meal descriptions and the fact that you can't make it from lunch to dinner without practically keeling over, (a) you're clearly very much still a sugar-burner, which means this "fat-adapted" transition is still underway and you need to be patient, and (  you are absolutely not eating enough. There is zero possibility of you being in actual ketosis with the current amount of carbohydrate in your diet (although it's probably not enough to sustain activity levels), and ketosis and ketoacidosis are two very different (and often confused, even by medical professionals) conditions that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

Try eating more immediately. Add more protein, more carbohydrate, and perhaps more fat to every single one of your meals. If that's the issue, then you'll start to feel better right away - and I suspect that's exactly what will happen. 

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[kirkor]

oops, went to 36 net carbs yesterday (42 total) ... had a bunch of olives and coconut milk (no not at the same time ) and that bumped me up.

Still kinda struggling with keeping protein from getting too high while managing satiety.

[MeadowLily]

If the ketogenic diet results in major weight loss that lasts, we may see longer lifespan, less type 2 diabetes, less cancer, less heart disease, less high blood pressure, and less of the other obesity-related medical conditions. 

Ketogenic diets are generally higher in protein, total fats than many other diets.  Some authorities are concerned this may increase the risk of coronary heart disease and stroke, while others disagree.

Ketogenic diets have the potential to cause kidney stones, osteoporosis (thin, brittle bones), gout, deficiency of vitamins and minerals, and may worsen existing kidney disease.

It’s clear that compliance with very low-carb diets is difficult to maintain for six to 12 months.  Many people can’t do it for more than a couple weeks.  So, long-term effects haven’t come into play for most users.  As with most weight-loss diets, regain of lost weight is a problem.  I anticipate that the majority of  people who try a ketogenic diet will stay on it for only one to six months, with significant loss of excess body fat.  After that, more carbohydrates can be added to gain the potential long-term benefits of additional fruits and vegetables.....

 

Or not.

 

That's my question...how long and what is the maintenance strategy after keto?

[MeadowLily]

[kirkor]

No, and I probably won't based on what I've been reading. Too-frequent carb ups on a CKD. My plan after probably at least 6 weeks of the standard ketogenic diet will be the TKD (targeted ketogenic diet) which has a person consuming measured amounts of additional carbs surrounding workouts. So the additional carbs are "used up" for the workout itself, rather than a CKD general purpose carb up.

[MeadowLily]

The American Diabetes Association every January updates their Standards of Medical Care in Diabetes. The document is lengthy, highly technical, and written for healthcare providers. Some of you may appreciate it. If I were a non-physician with diabetes, I’d learn as much about it as possible. Remember, no one cares about your health as much as you do. The 2015 version of the standards is called, appropriately enough, Standards of Medical Care in Diabetes—2015.

Updates to the guidlelines include:

• recommendation not to sit inactively for over 90 minutes
• pre-meal blood sugar target is now 80 to 130 mg/dl (4.4 to 7.2 mmol/l) instead of the old 70 to 130 mg/dl
• added SGLT2 inhibitors to the drug treatment algorithm
• recommended a diastolic blood pressure goal of 90 mmHg or less instead of the old 80 mmHg or less

[kirkor]

MeadowLily I'm sad you deleted all your posts.     

[MeadowLily]

http://forum.whole9life.com/topic/5593-keeping-carb-intake-under-100g-question-about-ketosis/

[doctoremily]

nice food porn, meadowlily - thanks for those visual treats! :-D

 

btw, if you're "ravenous" when you get home and have to have a snack to have the strength to cook dinner, your body is still having trouble with blood sugar regulation and you might want to consider increasing your healthy-fat intake and lowering your carb intake, esp in the morning - best thing is to save your carbs for evening and/or after a good workout. i hope that's helpful!

[doctoremily]

how's everybody doing with their keto whole30?

 

my ketone levels are in the 2-4.5 range this week, with fasting blood glucose down from close to 100 every morning for the past few months to 69 this morning! woohoo!

 

i've simplified my eating tremendously since we started this keto whole30, and am basically doing intermittent fasting with bpc until mid afternoon most days, then late lunch and usually also late dinner (working until 7pm will do that to the eating schedule!)

 

last night we had super tasty burgers with homemade mayo (mac nut oil based) with green chile, grilled mushrooms and onions (this is our go-to fri night dinner) - my blood sugar was high 80s after the protein bomb and onions, but it's good this morning, so recovery time is getting better, which is great (it used to take days for it to come down after getting jacked up). also my ketone and blood glucose levels are similar (in mmol), which i heard on jimmy moore's show is a good thing.

 

my ultimate goal is to have average, constant blood sugar levels around 60. dr thomas seyfried says optimal is 55-65, even 0-2 hours post-prandial! that would be amazing.

 

what are your goals?

 

anyone else here struggling with blood sugar regulation issues? what have you found to work best for you (besides hflc, of course!)? supplements, types of exercise, adequate sleep, reducing stress, etc.

[kirkor]

Man, I'm really thinking I need to get some of them thar' fancy measurin' devices!  The ketostix thing isn't really telling me much.

 

I arrived in San Diego this afternoon after a couple days driving, and I clarified my current goal: "Keto-til-my-abs-show"!!

 

keto-style whole30 is going A-OK ... biggest issue is not going over on protein, but compliance is fine and satiety is fine.  Actually it's a lot easier than I thought it would be.  It's tough sometime to peruse the keto forums/blogs and see all the cheese, but that's easy to ignore.

[MeadowLily]

 

 

 

[MeadowLily]

     

[MeadowLily]

     

http://www.ameerrosic.com/how-to-live-a-paleo-lifestyle-on-tour-for-200-days-of-the-year-with-tim-mcgraw/

 

A paleo lifestyle for 200 days with Tim McGraw

[MeadowLily]

"Yeah. I see slowly people are waking up. I think the unfortunate circumstance is that most people have to face a life-changing situation before they wake up, either it’s sickness or something happens to a loved one or who knows what it is, and then they have no choice because the brick wall is in front of them and they’re like “I got to do something. I got to break this wall apart so I can escape.” On the other hand, the reason why we’re in this mess in the first place is because of manipulation in marketing. I grew up thinking I need to drink milk. I need my calcium, it’s mandatory. Or, the whole-wheat bread, I’m going to lose all my nutrients if I don’t have them. I grew up as a child and your parents were groomed the same way, and it perpetuates to generation to generation to generation like a domino series, until we take out at least one or two generations that don’t abide by those standards and we transform the lineage of the domino series."

 

 

That would be me.  It took a wake-up call.

[Brewer5]

my ultimate goal is to have average, constant blood sugar levels around 60. dr thomas seyfried says optimal is 55-65, even 0-2 hours post-prandial! that would be amazing.

 

 

How do you think you go about achieving this?  Do you think that if you are in ketosis long enough... it will just happen?

 

Also, a question for you:  Are you supplementing with MCT oil to raise ketone levels?  I know that it works, but I have not been.  I'd like to see mine get there without having to use that product.  The only time I have been consuming it lately is when I have my homemade mayo, which I make with mostly MCT oil and the rest is olive oil.

[MeadowLily]

Brewer, I tried MCT Coconut oil.     After about 10 days, there was a constant...in-the-background nausea kinda pain in my gut.  I thought it was an ulcer.  I remembered what I was doing differently.   I quit that MCT and badda bing badda boom, that background pull/pain stopped.   I went back to EVCoconut Oil but decided to take a break from the EVCoconut oil, too.    I find that MacNut oil doesn't bother me at all.  It's very soothing and I'm sticking with that until the coast is clear.   EVOlive oil doesn't upset my stomach either.   For me, MCT is too refined.  What do the Keto folkaronis think?

 

 

[praxisproject]

oops, went to 36 net carbs yesterday (42 total) ... had a bunch of olives and coconut milk (no not at the same time ) and that bumped me up.

Still kinda struggling with keeping protein from getting too high while managing satiety.

 

More fat

[praxisproject]

doctoremily - I used to have a "deranged metabolism" and was officially PreDiabetic. (our measurements are a little different here) My morning fasted blood sugar used to fluctuate between 5 and 10, sometimes as high as 12 (10 is bad). Now I've evened out to a fairly constant 6-6.5, although this W30 I've had some record lows, 4.6 and 4 (don't really want spikes or dips, but my doctor would never have believed this a few years ago!)

 

Things which really helped me:

• Eating within an hour of waking up (30 minutes is better, if you're fast enough)
• Lifting heavy things rather than cardio
• Whole30
• Eating to the template!!!   & avoiding snacking
• Staying away from dairy, grains & artificial sweeteners when not doing Whole30
• Not eating fruit outside of meals (ie. not on an empty stomach)

I also eat more carbs now than I did pre-Whole30 and I stay in ketosis. I think this is both from avoiding grains and dairy and my gut healing (I have leaky gut, although a lot less leaky now I think).

[Brewer5]

MeadowLily, MCT oil is used in the ketogenic world specifically because it encourages ketone production.  It stands out from any other type of fats for this reason.  I know that it can help people reach ketosis and get higher readings...  I guess my thought is that MCT oil is still a very processed product, and I shouldn't "need" it to get where I want to go.  If that makes sense.

[kirkor]

Coconut oil is like 50% MCT so I figure that's the best way to go.

[MeadowLily]

Thanks.   I believe MCT is way too refined for me.  I don't need it to get where I'm going.

[doctoremily]

Re MCT oil - yes, I have C8 MCT (Upgraded Self / Bulletproof Exec Brain Octane) in my coffee every morning, and occ a second cup around Noon too, and I also use the Brain Octane in salad dressings, mayo, pesto, and more. I have found that the Brain Octane is much less nausea-producing than regular MCT. My understanding is that MCT causes nausea for 2 main reasons: it kills yeast/candida which causes a die-off, and the system not being used to digesting that much concentrated fat at once. It supposedly gets easier over time for most people... tho for me, it has not - I still get just as nauseous from 1T of MCT oil now as I did a year+ ago when I started, unless I take a digestive enzyme along with it, which helps tremendously!!

 

As for how to reach that 60 mg/dl average blood glucose, yes, I think partly it's just a matter of staying on plan for long enough, but I think that certain supplements are often helpful and even essential. I am still playing with my mix, still trying to figure out that piece... Regular exercise also seems to be essential, at least for me, and the correct mix, too - for me that looks like some kind of low to moderate intensity activity like hiking or biking most days, plus some HIIT and/or strength-training once or twice a week. And, getting good sleep and keeping stress managed are also important! So many factors to manage...