Interesting, but no big revelations

[Gunhild]

Hi,

I am on day 21, of the first time I have tried Whole 30.

 

I have contemplated writing on this site for a while, and am taking the plunge today.

 

My interest was in finding out if the claims I read about were true, or could be true, in that a person can feel so different and so much better (energy, happiness, sleep better, etc) - although honestly I haven't had too much problem with these things but I was curious. And I did feel rather full after christmas, and had a month with little travel, so thought - why not?

 

I have just seen the headlines of some of the posts, all of which are very positive. Which is good, but a bit disconcerting for me, as I have not noticed noticed anything monumental aside from my mood, which is worse.

 

I have been compliant as one says, since 21 january. I am no longer starving in between meals (in the beginning, no matter how much I ate, I felt painfully hungry in between), so that is positive. 

 

I possibly have gone down a couple of kilos, which is nice, but was not a problem to begin with.

 

This is a difficult program to follow when one is outside of the US - or so it seems. I live in the European Arctic (Norway). It is far too expensive to order so much stuff over Amazon - I see I can get my hands on max 3 items on the "staples" list. And the cost of meat - never mind that which has "lived a good life" - is overwhelming. I also have children (4 at home at the moment) and can't exclude them (ie: the meat is just for me!!!), so even more of a whammy in cost and preparation. I don't like cooking, but I put up with it as I usually always make food from scratch anyway (it is not news that there is so much junk in prepared foods). There is by no means the vegetable selection here that can serve many of the recipes I have tried to look at, so variation is limited (thus boring). I can say however that my digestive system is noticing this. All seems to go right through quite quickly.

 

At day 21, I am rather fed up with this but will hang in there. 

 

I am curious if anyone else is at such a stage - hanging in there but, meh?

 

Thank you.

 

best, gunhild

[Physibeth]

I'm going to move this to the Troubleshooting section of the forum because the tone of the post feels more appropriate there.

 

Just a couple of thoughts reading through your post. 

 

First - you are on day 21. You still have 7 days left. I've read countless stories of people who didn't see major differences until day 29 or 30 or even 31. It all depends on your context. It's a 30 day program for a reason.

 

Second - you are seeing improvements. I don't know about you but being able to go 4-5 hours between meals without being hangry was a HUGE win for me.

 

Third - while eating meat that has come from well sourced animals is ideal it isn't necessary. We all need to do what works best for our budgets and contexts. For me I choose to spend the money because it is just me and my husband and I have readily available sources. If you can't get your hands on or afford the best quality then choose leaner cuts of meat and/or trim more of the fat from your meat as this is where most of the toxins are stored.

 

Fourth - having all the fancy condiments are not super necessary. They are nice but really you just need to eat meat, vegetables, good fats, and maybe some fruit. Perhaps try simplifying your meal prep and not worry about all the recipes out there. Stick with what is in season for vegetables locally. I understand this might get boring. Maybe treat yourself to a more expensive splurge meal once a week to cut the boredom.

 

Last - you mention your mood is still bad. This is often an indicator of too low starch or not enough food in general. If you wanted to post 2-3 days of your food, water, sleep, activity, and stress we might be able to help you tweek some things that will make your last 7 days a little more pleasant.

[ladyshanny]

+1 to Physibeth's comment that you don't need all the fancy ingredients.  I live in Canada and even very close to a major metropolitan area (Vancouver) and I don't buy the odd stuff either.  Coconut aminos is one that comes to mind and in every recipe that I've made that calls for it I just skip it and have never noticed a difference.

 

I've never been to Norway but I imagine you must have a reasonable selection of spices in your grocery stores?  And the ingredients to make homemade mayo or pesto (when in season)?  

 

I took a look online at what is "traditional" in Norway and you have a lot of stuff that sounds delicious.  Lots of lamb and pork and potatoes and cabbage. Instead of trying to recreate all the recipes you find online (of which many of them are US), maybe consider what you would normally make and then modify it to be compliant?

[GlennR]

Make it a project to make your Norwegian dishes Whole30!  (Oh, but you said you didn't like to cook.) 

[lsmallwood]

Hi Gunhild - yeah, I'm in the same boat.  I'm on day 21 of my 2nd Whole30.  The first time I did Whole30, around October last year, I lost a fairly significant amount of weight -- 8lbs -- but didn't notice any drastic differences in mood.  My overall energy level was slightly more stable during the day, probably because I wasn't drinking as much coffee (it's just not as good without milk!).  My workout energy levels took a nose dive, maybe because I didn't have the time or inclination to put together two extra meals on top of all the other Whole30-related food prep I was doing.  Sleep was better, but sleep is always better when I abstain from alcohol.  Reduced coffee probably helped too.

 

This time I'm really struggling.  I'm pretty sure I haven't lost any weight, my energy levels are in the gutter, and my mood is much worse.  The only "tiger blood" I feel is the rage I have towards putting in so much effort and money and not seeing any results.  Yeah, I realize I have 9 more days... but if I've turned into one of those "I guess you need a Whole60!!" people then forget it!

 

Everyone's experience is going to be different, and apparently two different Whole30s for the same person can be pretty different as well.

 

I'm still hoping for a turnaround though - maybe you'll see one too.  Good luck!

[Gunhild]

Thank you all for the very good insights and comments. Physibeth, I will try to write about my food, sleep, eating, stress for the past 2-3 days. I don't pay attention so much really. But in general, I eat defrosted frozen berries mixed with crushed nuts/cashew butter concoction, and 3 eggs. Lunch is usually a stone age "bread" thing of nuts and eggs with a lamb cold cut (just meat and salt). Or chicken with avocado and some melon. Dinners have been meat (reindeer steak, or ground beef/pork), potatoes on occasion, sweet potatoes, salad. Like that. Sleeping - that is fine - usually 6,5-8 hours uninterrupted. Activity is walking to work (20 minutes up/down hills one way), walking around work (sitting job, much in front of computer), house work, etc. Water, I don't pay so much attention but regular intervals. Stress probably has been a bit much (remodelling the basement and had house guests the last week), but not over the top. I don't know.

Thanks also to all for suggestions regarding food. I have been trying to Norwegianize the menu - although living up north our selection is even more limited. But I didn't think of the lamb. I can try that. But with the kids, the food disappears fast ;-).

I am hanging in there. Good to know that not starving between meals is a sign of success ;-). I hope very much things turn around for you lsmallwood, but it is good to be able to talk about how one is experiencing this.  

 

[ladyshanny]

Hi Gunhild.  A few things stand out to me as far as reasons you may not be experiencing the results you were hoping for.

 

• we recommend having 2-4 cups of veggies with every meal.  Your breakfast is very fruit-heavy and that can set you up to crave or seek sugary carby items all day as well as stop your hormones from regulating themselves as well.  We don't mind fruit but have it with a template meal.
• I don't understand your "stone age bread thing of nuts and eggs" but again you're missing veggies in both of your lunch examples.
• 5 hours of sleep is not enough to restore your body.  I've linked below a couple articles on sleep hygiene that you might find useful if you are struggling to hit 8 hours a night, every night.
• We recommend half an ounce of water per pound of bodyweight.  Water is what is going to flush your body, lubricate your joints, hydrate your skin etc and to be honest, some of the benefits that people see (clearer skin, reduced joint pain) does partially come from that person becoming properly hydrated again

http://whole9life.com/2014/09/improve-sleep-quality/

http://whole9life.com/2014/09/improve-your-sleep/

[ultrarunnergirl]

Dear Gunhild,

  Try to eat every meal according to the Meal Template. That means vegetables (1-3 cups) at every meal. Also be sure to eat 1 - 2 palm sized portions of protein (if eating eggs, that portion is "as many as you can hold in your hand" - 3 or 4 for most people). Finally, 1 -2 thumbs of fat or a small handful of nuts or a large handful of olives or coconut.

  Nuts and fruit are to be used as accents, not staples. They simply aren't giving you enough nutrition (and can be hard on digestion). Nuts can also skew your balance of Omega 6 too high (especially if you aren't eating plenty of omega 3 rich foods like olive oil, grass fed meats, fish).

  With four children I'm sure it's tough to get good quality sleep, but it is so important to how you will feel. As beneficial as only eating good food is, it is only one piece of the puzzle.

[Physibeth]

Just a note to my fellow mods - I believe she is saying 6.5 hrs-8hrs a night. The comma instead of the period is a local thing. I learned something testing software.

 

To the original poster - I agree on the vegetable increase but also understand that where you are limits your selection. What is readily available where you are at this time of year. We might be able to give you some better ideas on how to prep them to make it more interesting. Also I imagine it is fairly dark this time of year for you. Sun/light exposure also has a great deal of impact on your energy levels. You might consider a high quality vitamin D supplement and or an energy lamp in the morning to help with that. 

 

To lsmallwood - could you give us an idea of what you are eating? What you are describing to me sounds like not enough food in general and not enough starch in particular. How is your sleep? Stress? Water? Activity?

[lsmallwood]

My second (current) Whole30 eating is very similar to my first Whole30 -- following the template pretty darn closely.  No "cheating" or slip-ups that I know of.  So it's a mystery as to why my body is reacting so differently this time around.  Plenty of water, no stress that I'm aware of.  Trying to exercise (running and circuit training) every other day but given my energy levels, I'm lucky to get in two workouts a week, and of those, one is typically terrible - no energy, super out of breath the whole time, lots of muscle and joint pain.

 

I will say that my energy level was even worse about a week and a half ago.  So there is some slight improvement there.

 

I can stick it out for another 8 days though -- I'm committed!

[Gunhild]

Dear all,

 

Dear all,

 

Thanks again for all of the informative comments.

 

I will begin with the vegetables. As for selection, on average we have: potatoes, sweet potatoes, broccoli, cauliflower, zucchini, eggplant, celery, onions, turnips, cabbage (red or green or both, not all the time). I am not creative about how to do stuff with vegetables that are fast. We boil potatoes or make "potato boats" (roasted in oven?), make mashed sweet potatoes (with ghee and cinnamon), roast broccoli and cauliflower which is meh, tried making zucchini noodles (thinking I did something wrong there too), and have grilled eggplant . . . . cabbage we have on occasion as well. 

 

I do not eat enough vegetables for breakfast - not sure how to do so. I have not bought into the meal 1, 2 and 3 system whereby I am eating a warm meal with meat and vegetables 3 times a day (or so it seems). I need things fast in the morning and have not at all figured this out. 

So i am "compliant", but clearly not balanced.

 

Whether this is what is making me not in a good mood or not - I don't know. I think it also has to do with the frustration of trying to find solutions on the go. I have had to eat away from home or away from the office lunch room scenario (where I can bring my own food), and though I ask for food with a whole list of "none of..", I am sure something slips in (iike probably frying meat in butter, for example). And my daughter last night made a great meal, trying to be compliant all the way, but used lemon pepper which has a small amount but nevertheless added sugar. So - does this mean I start over again???? As well, trying to get some flavour in my meals (without putting cumin on everything), has been difficult without having to cook forever. Teriyaki chicken (for example) would be nice - but can't use the store bought. Ok. What are the alternatives. I look on the internet and find suggestions for such sauce (or any sauce for that matter), virtually all of which use this coconut aminos sauce. Not only is that not available here (it is in SOOO many recipes I have read, I am giving up on the idea of sauce), but I see others think it is expensive. so there is thankfully an alternative to that! Of course, this means one has to make a sauce, to be able to make another sauce. But even the alternative won't work, as it calls for molasses (sugar??). I made it without the molasses. I have used it once. Not sure I will use it again (little to no taste anyway). 

 

It is this frustration, trying to eat compliant without having to make absolutely everything at home (and that get's back to the continuous cooking, which is not my favourite activity). 

To put it mildly - the entire family is looking forward to friday. We are managing, my husband and I will do this until friday, but that is where the constant watching for everything ends.

I am learning that this program takes much more effort to do "right"; that "right" implies much more than just reducing ones intake to meat, vegetables, fruit and nuts; the template is not easy (2 cups of vegetables each meal is not easy to do without really figuring out an effective way to do that) and may involve more food than one actually eats normally so one has to get used to that; there appears to be a "good" way of eating the allowed food groups, and clearly a "bad" way (which one has to figure out as well); it does involve an enormous amount of cooking (not least sauces for sauces) - and I do not eat ready-made stuff that often as a rule but my time in the kitchen has increased exponentially; it is expensive (more meat) and requires more time shopping (I have to go to specialty stores to get ghee, for example); it is very challenging when you have a family and try to balance meals with them; it takes much effort to figure out where you can eat out, if at all (which is not practical in all instances, particularly when traveling)  . . . 

 

It has been good to try it. I might even try it again if I get a month where I do not have any travel or lunch/dinner meeting demands and see if I use what I have learned (what this *really* takes) and prepare better. Or maybe not. 

We actually eat quite well anyway. Much of this (aside from having vegetables in huge amounts at breakfast and lunch) is not far off from what we do anyway, and I have been always careful to watch labels. This program has made us even more aware about the sugar added to everything (which makes me even more frustrated with the food producers) so that is good. 

 

I will try to get more vegetables in me on a 3x a day basis, if I can find a way to do so that is quick and tasty. Haven't seen any solutions on that front yet. I have no doubt the mood will shift on day 31 though ;-)

 

If I actually do get an energy boost after trying more vegetables maybe I will change my tune. (I definitely do get enough sleep, and good sleep - this is not a problem). Right now, I am just counting down . . . . 

 

But thank you. I am learning a lot from the posts here.

 

best, gunhild

[GFChris]

it is expensive (more meat) and requires more time shopping (I have to go to specialty stores to get ghee, for example); 

 

 

On the meat, buy a variety of proteins that fit your budget.  More tips here.

 

Make your own clarified butter instead. Easy peasy: http://www.davidlebovitz.com/2010/03/how-to-clarify-butter-recipe/

 

 

 

I do not eat enough vegetables for breakfast - not sure how to do so. 

 

 

Leftovers is the easiest way.  After that, vegetable (squash, sweet potato, cauliflower) soups are popular, as are frittatas that you prepare ahead of time.

 

 

 I am sure something slips in (iike probably frying meat in butter, for example). And my daughter last night made a great meal, trying to be compliant all the way, but used lemon pepper which has a small amount but nevertheless added sugar. So - does this mean I start over again???? 

 

Accidental ingestion of butter would be more concerning than accidentally eating sugar in this case. Read more here on whether to restart.

 

 

As well, trying to get some flavour in my meals (without putting cumin on everything), has been difficult without having to cook forever. Teriyaki chicken (for example) would be nice - but can't use the store bought. Ok. What are the alternatives. I look on the internet and find suggestions for such sauce (or any sauce for that matter), virtually all of which use this coconut aminos sauce. Not only is that not available here (it is in SOOO many recipes I have read, I am giving up on the idea of sauce), but I see others think it is expensive. so there is thankfully an alternative to that! Of course, this means one has to make a sauce, to be able to make another sauce. But even the alternative won't work, as it calls for molasses (sugar??). I made it without the molasses. I have used it once. Not sure I will use it again (little to no taste anyway). 

 

 

If you're not a cumin fan, use chili powder instead or experiment with other spices, seasonings and herbs. There are countless sauces you can make that don't require coconut aminos.  Start with Melissa Joulwan's website (author of Well Fed and Well Fed 2)  - she has a handy recipe index.

[Gunhild]

Thanks again for the tips. Interesting point about ingesting butter (though it might only be to fry some meat). If this is true, that in case restaurants fry with butter (and maybe they don't, I don't know), it would mean pretty much not eating out for 30 days, which is not possible in my case.

 

I otherwise have not done anything where I decide to just make an exception. I have (despite the lack of balance between ingredients) stayed on compliant things the entire time. If I ended up eating some meat fried in butter (I don't know) I find that hard to consider "going off program" or such. Or the one time I end up eating something that has a bit of lemon pepper (which unfortunately has a small amount of sugar in it). But maybe that is the rules. It does not help inspiration to continue when the slightest, unintentional and small exception has to throw a person back to day 1. I prefer (if I have had unintentional ingestion of non-compliant foods) to continue to hang in there for the 30 days.

 

As such, I probably will never be able to do this 100% right, if an incremental amount enters the diet though not intentionally. I think I have done very well despite the hurdles. 

 

It is an interesting exercise. And I thank Lsmallwood for sharing hurdles as well. I haven't been able to find much mention of these (people struggling and with what) on the website so it is nice to know that I am not the only one experiencing this. And if so many other people do not experience such challenges - well, I guess I am rather incompetent. But it is nice to hear about how other people might work through these struggles. 

[GFChris]

Thanks again for the tips. Interesting point about ingesting butter (though it might only be to fry some meat). If this is true, that in case restaurants fry with butter (and maybe they don't, I don't know), it would mean pretty much not eating out for 30 days, which is not possible in my case.

 

 

You can always request your steak or burger to be dry-grilled.  Or, ask what they use for cooking oils to check whether they are compliant.

 

On the ingestion of dairy with the recommendation to restart, dairy is a common irritant, and the idea is to be completely free of common gut/digestive irritants for 30 consecutive days.

[Gunhild]

I should probably add what has been very beneficial, and that is an increased awareness about what is in food products, and also an increased awareness about our previous diet. I have wondered if because our previous diet was not that bad (at all), that perhaps the difference that I/we would notice might not be so great. I am not unhappy to begin with, so becoming suddenly more happy is probably not realistic ;-). It's been a good exercise in talking about food with my husband, and getting more and more on the same page with how we eat. That is good. The best part has been just laying off the wine for the month. I think that probably has contributed most to any weight loss. A month off wine will be a regular thing (though looking forward to the occasional glass again next weekend ;-) )

[Gunhild]

"You can always request your steak or burger to be dry-grilled.  Or, ask what they use for cooking oils to check whether they are compliant.

 

 

On the ingestion of dairy with the recommendation to restart, dairy is a common irritant, and the idea is to be completely free of common gut/digestive irritants for 30 consecutive days."

 

I do understand the point behind the "restart". I think no matter what I have managed to stay irritant free (if there has been any "contamination", my gut has not noticed it). Anyway. I think I am passed the point of really worrying about this, and will do my best to complete the 30 in compliance (no lunches or dinners out this week in any case). Good idea to ask for something dry-grilled or ask about the oil, though I admit, I am not yet in the space where I feel ok about asking about a list of exceptions to my order. Maybe next time around.

[Gunhild]

And thank you very very much for your comments. It is nice to have the opportunity to discuss these things. Thank you!!

[Britishgal]

I live in the UK and have done 2(and a half!) whole30s with no coconut aminos or Lara bars or any of the things we cannot get here without exorbitant prices. I am used to cooking Chinese foods as my son is half Chinese but I just cut those meals out during whole30s and I've never had need of soy sauce except for that!

We (my 6 year old and I) eat a lot if roast chicken with whatever veggies we fancy (or often which ones are in offer at aldi), bowls of chili with loads of papers and onions to bulk it out either in lettuce leaves or over grated and roasted cauliflower, cottage or shepherd pies with with mashed potato, sweet potato, squash or cauliflower top or stews with mashed root veggies or cauliflower or green veg. We also eat eggs a lot as omelettes or fried eggs with heaps of stir fried veg (I get giddy at cabbage with compliant Palma ham and my son would give anything for lettuce with garlic) and I love courgette "noodles" with homemade ragu or curries made from left over chicken. Treats are meatballs or burgers wrapped in lettuce leaves, both of which I make myself.

I don't really read too many recipes online seriously, mainly for ideas, as they often contain things I don't have and we are by no means wealthy

[ShannonM816]

Hi, Gunhild! I'm sorry your Whole30 experience hasn't been all that wonderful. I don't think I have any suggestions to add that GFChris hasn't mentioned above, but I thought I'd mention this blog I stumbled across looking for recipes: Strictly Paleo...ish. He's based in Sweden, and I thought there might be more overlap in the available ingredients with someone in Sweden than with all of us here in the US, so you might find something useful there. His recipes are not all Whole30, but if you look at the recipes tab, you can pull up the ones that are. 

 

If you should decide to do another Whole30 in the future -- or even if you just want to incorporate more of a Paleo focus into your meals now -- I'm sure there must be more bloggers based in your general region of the world who would tend to have the same ingredients you would have access to, so it might be worth seeking them out for recipe ideas.