Queenie521 Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 Ok, I'm just so confused by SWYPO. so I've been trying to be creative with the compliant food to stop myself from getting bored and wanting to quit. I've made mashed acorn squash with coconut milk, coconut, and cinnamon for breakfast along side sausage (so I'm not eating eggs yet again) and people tell me I can't because of its resemblance to oatmeal. I mashed some plantains and baked them (think a large tostones) to use as a shell for the taco meat I made and was told I can't do that because is SWYPO. People are telling me that you can't alter the appearance of a food to mimic a noncompliant food yet spiralizing zucchini to mock pasta is ok, making your own French fries is ok, mashing cauliflower to appear as mashed potatoes is ok, grating your cauliflower to appear like rice is ok. I'm just so confused and honestly slightly discouraged. I'm great at following black and white rules, but these gray areas are frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkor Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I see it as less what the food looks like and more what it represents. It's similar to why eating trail mix when you're craving a non-compliant snack is discouraged: you're still "feeding the monkey" of your unhealthy neuroassociation. Porridge is often no bueno because the program is trying to change the psychology of breakfast which has for too long been the domain of hastily prepared carb heavy foods (cereals, oats, toast, juice, fruit, pancakes, etc) ... Zoodles/spaghetti squash are different because there's no way they're going to satisfy anyone's craving for a platter of Nonna Vincenzo's finest baked ziti, but they do allow for something to 'soak up the sauce' and provide a novel textural experience that diced veggies can't replicate. SWYPO is about "shoe-horning" old habits into technically-compliant frameworks. In your specific example of the plantain taco shells, I personally would call that a-ok. It's similar to how people make "boats" out of zucchini. If you are a reformed taco fiend who made the plantain sheaths and then closed your eyes and imagined you were enjoying a guilty pleasure from the local Yelp-rated taco truck, then they'd probably be SWYPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenie521 Posted January 25, 2015 Author Share Posted January 25, 2015 Lol, was never a taco junky nor a "porridge" junky (my breakfast pre W30 was typically yogurt and fruit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennR Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I get your frustration about the gray area. I think it's going to be something Whole30ers struggle with for a while. Part of it is the difficulty we have in naming things in the Whole30 world. See, when you described the acorn squash thing, I thought of it as just a mashed vegetable. I didn't get how it could be construed as a faux "oatmeal" until I looked at your original post. If it had been called "mashed acorn squash" instead, I don't think anyone would have objected. Same thing with the mashed and baked plantains. If you don't call it a "taco" shell, I would have just thought of it as a mashed and baked plantain. (Indeed, I've made a Whole30 pastelones/shepherd's pie where I used mashed and baked plantain as the crust underlying and covering ground meat, which is not too far in concept from your dish.) From my viewpoint, both of your dishes are actually just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlennR Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 P.S. I've made this mistake myself. Someone once called a dish a compliant "pancake" and I noted that this was not allowed. Other people objected because the "pancake" was eggs and vegetables -- more like an egg foo young than what we normally think of as a "pancake." I, too, had gotten tripped up by the name rather than what the dish actually was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmary Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 yeah, try not to get too tied up in knots about this. Here's my take: does the food fit into the recommended whole30 meal template (either containing protein, fat and vegetables, or serving as one or two of those in the context of the rest)? Is the item a pancake, bread or dessert? If yes to the first and no to the second, then you are probably pretty close to ok. on the other hand...it's just 30 days. If you aren't sure if something is "on the edge" of SWYPO for your personal context, you can always wait and have it afterwards. There are tons of vegetable recipes in the world. I can't remember the last time I had squash mashed with cinnamon and coconut milk (if ever--I'm not a fan of sweet spices on vegetables, generally) and I am not bored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SueWyatt Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 i am only at Day 7 on the first Whole30 and i totally understand your frustration with the "rules"... i am thinking of it as it pertains to things i kind of have an issue with ... for me potato chips and french fries ... i will avoid anything that is re-creating those for me within the 30 days ... and cocktails ... i am not doing "mocktails" for the same reason. but i don't know how a plate of zucchini "pasta" covered in tomato sauce and meatballs isn't recreating a comfort food for most people... Best of luck on your 30 days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sleeve Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 The grayer the rule, the more gray matter to live within it. I view the gray rules as the freedom to interpret on our own and go where our long term interests lie. Ultimately, this is about the change that lasts beyond the 30 days and what we learn from them. It's a chance to ask yourself: am I having an oatmeal imitator, is this a taco shell? We can't tell you whether it's a taco shell, only your mind and your craves can. Are you perpetuating a problem you'll reintroduce, or moving in a better direction? That's inside your skull. When we get too parochial and seek permission, we forego the independence that needs to grow within us to carry what we learn down the road. I'm not suggesting to cafeteria the rules, because I'd get my butt slapped, but for the months and years ahead we all need to come out of this ready to make day to day decisions we not only can live with but enjoy and may even evangelize where welcomed. Is that destination the same for everyone? No, I'm radically disobedient compared to many, but I treasure what I've learned and I feel better than any other time in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeadowLily Posted January 25, 2015 Share Posted January 25, 2015 I think SWYPO's are easy to spot. When someone has a lightbulb moment, thinking of ways to be very creative in the kitchen - painstakingly trying to recreate a formation that looks exactly like their old favorite....SWYPO. How many people are back at their local taco joint, coffee house or bar on Day 31? Taking it to the razor's edge doesn't break the old bonds with junk food, frozen yogurt, pumpkin spice lattes and house of pancakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Humm.... I agree that it's about the role the food plays in the decision to implement it into the meal. I've found that I actually prefer spaghetti squash or zucchini noodles to pasta so will continue with them after the 30. I can't say the same about plantain chips! They may fill a void, but the whole time I'm eating them I'm thinking how good REAL chips would be! Absolutely SWYPO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators ladyshanny Posted January 27, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 27, 2015 i am only at Day 7 on the first Whole30 and i totally understand your frustration with the "rules"... i am thinking of it as it pertains to things i kind of have an issue with ... for me potato chips and french fries ... i will avoid anything that is re-creating those for me within the 30 days ... and cocktails ... i am not doing "mocktails" for the same reason. but i don't know how a plate of zucchini "pasta" covered in tomato sauce and meatballs isn't recreating a comfort food for most people... Best of luck on your 30 days! Hmmm...you raise a good point. I don't personally believe there is anything wrong with food that is comforting, we aren't robots. For me it's a matter of whether the item triggers me to over eat it, whether the item makes me miss the real thing more and whether it fits the template. I personally can't stand spaghetti, never could, so making zoodles is A) nothing I would find comfort in and too much of a pain for me to even bother. One food that I happen to find very comforting on a cold winter night is Well Fed Pina Colada chicken. It's basically a fry up of peppers, onions, zucchini (my addition), chicken and a can of pineapple chunks poured over with coconut milk and jerk seasoning. It's warm, it's fragrant, it has a lovely texture. It's....comforting. It's also meat, veggies and fat. It's a matter of knowing yourself (as you said), your triggers, your habits and working the program as it is meant to be worked....not trying to find workarounds. I think you're well on the right track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeadowLily Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 "The grayer the rule, the more gray matter to live within it. I view the gray rules as the freedom to interpret on our own and go where our long term interests lie. Ultimately, this is about the change that lasts beyond the 30 days and what we learn from them. It's a chance to ask yourself: am I having an oatmeal imitator, is this a taco shell? We can't tell you whether it's a taco shell, only your mind and your craves can. Are you perpetuating a problem you'll reintroduce, or moving in a better direction? That's inside your skull. When we get too parochial and seek permission, we forego the independence that needs to grow within us to carry what we learn down the road. I'm not suggesting to cafeteria the rules, because I'd get my butt slapped, but for the months and years ahead we all need to come out of this ready to make day to day decisions we not only can live with but enjoy and may even evangelize where welcomed. Is that destination the same for everyone? No, I'm radically disobedient compared to many, but I treasure what I've learned and I feel better than any other time in my life." Sleeve. You said it oooo sooo well. One size does not fit all. This is about the change that lasts waaay beyond 30 days and into our future. It is a very personal and individual journey. We can try to imprint our plan onto someone else but it doesn't work. They have their own thoughts and desires, culture and body chemistry. When you've exhausted every avenue, not learning how to create your own positive food management plan...blocking out the cues your body is screaming to tell you...the cliff diving sequence that follows is chaos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura_juggles Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Gray areas are super tough to deal with. But we all have our foods with no brakes. Mine is nut butter. So I don't have any in the house right now. I could eat it plain with a spoon while watching TV. So I'm not even going to try to include that in my Whole30 because A) I don't need it; it's not even a great fat source and I need to separate myself from it for a while, then see if I can have a healthier relationship with nut butter once I have a healthier relationship with food in general. So if you make plantain "tacos" but when you're off Whole30 you don't find yourself waiting for the local taco truck to post their location on Twitter so you can be the first one there every single day, then it's okay. There are hard and fast SWYPO no's (pancakes...everyone just give it up with the pancakes already), but the impression I've gotten is that it's largely individual. I'm also super new at this (Day 8, first time!) so if I'm way off base, please let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeadowLily Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Laura, you know what you're doing and you're not off base at all. You have a great understanding of the rules and recommendations. You'll rock this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GFChris Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 So if you make plantain "tacos" but when you're off Whole30 you don't find yourself waiting for the local taco truck to post their location on Twitter so you can be the first one there every single day, then it's okay. There are hard and fast SWYPO no's (pancakes...everyone just give it up with the pancakes already), but the impression I've gotten is that it's largely individual. I would say plantain tacos are out on a Whole30 for the same reason that coconut wraps and Paleo tortillas are out, per this article from Dallas and Melissa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ultrarunnergirl Posted January 8, 2016 Moderators Share Posted January 8, 2016 One other way to determine "Is this SWYPO?" is to look at what you have to do to make this into a taco shell replacement compared to just eating the vegetable on the side (ie fried tostones), or using lettuce leaves to make lettuce cups for your taco filling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura_juggles Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I would say plantain tacos are out on a Whole30 for the same reason that coconut wraps and Paleo tortillas are out, per this article from Dallas and Melissa. But if you stack taco meat on a smashed plantain and don't call it a taco? I understand the reasoning behind coconut wraps, paleo tortillas, etc. Does the difference come down to what you call it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators ladyshanny Posted January 8, 2016 Administrators Share Posted January 8, 2016 But if you stack taco meat on a smashed plantain and don't call it a taco? I understand the reasoning behind coconut wraps, paleo tortillas, etc. Does the difference come down to what you call it? I think this is fine. The "nachos" recipe in the Well Fed 2 cookbook which is Whole30 approved is nacho meat and fixings (minus cheese, of course) stacked onto home made plantain chips. Don't go making a tortilla out of plantain and almond or coconut flour, but if you are using the unadulterated veggie, similar to using lettuce to wrap a "taco", there is no issue with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laura_juggles Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Thanks for the clarification, ladyshanny Tostones, which Queenie referenced in her original post about how she cooked the plantains, are literally just twice cooked plantains. Once so they're soft enough to smash and again so they get a little crisp on them. They're plantains, salt, and some oil. (Yum) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melimuse Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Gray areas are super tough to deal with. But we all have our foods with no brakes. Mine is nut butter. So I don't have any in the house right now. I could eat it plain with a spoon while watching TV. So I'm not even going to try to include that in my Whole30 because A) I don't need it; it's not even a great fat source and I need to separate myself from it for a while, then see if I can have a healthier relationship with nut butter once I have a healthier relationship with food in general. So if you make plantain "tacos" but when you're off Whole30 you don't find yourself waiting for the local taco truck to post their location on Twitter so you can be the first one there every single day, then it's okay. There are hard and fast SWYPO no's (pancakes...everyone just give it up with the pancakes already), but the impression I've gotten is that it's largely individual. I'm also super new at this (Day 8, first time!) so if I'm way off base, please let me know! I have the same relationship with nut butters. One of my go-to snacks for hunger and emotional comfort was nut butter plus ghee plus dried organic fruit in a cup. What else can a gluten free girl have that approximates the delight of a pbj? Thing is, calories! Also, replacement for an unbalanced meal. Also, I just found out I have a peanut allergy and suspect that some other nuts are also causing me trouble. Is maks me chldishly resentful becuase I can feel deprivd. I mean, I am snsitive and or allergic to dairy(lactose and casein), gluten, coconut, and now peanuts; I am sugar sensitive and a total lightweight when it comes to alcohol, and gain weight easily. Sheesh! The way I think of it though, is what am I *really* hungry for? Comfort, serenity, actual food? Company? Fresh air? When I satisfy what I am really craving and remind myself what problems I lose when I don't eat things I am sensitive to (like avoiding the diabetes that all my siblings have, arthritis flare ups, bloating, the blues..... Then it is okay. So, no 'technically compliant' substitutes for things you know cause you troubles, substitute instead what you really need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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