Vegan Gone Whole30

[thehudlermom]

Hey everyone!
My name is Christina, I recently turned 29 years old, and I've been vegan for about a decade.  Before that I was vegetarian for 7 years.  I have fought for animal rights and have actually based pretty much my entire life on being vegan.  I was working with a vegan non-profit for families, writing blogposts on a couple of different blogs, and I worked for social media and sales for a couple of vegan companies.

As time has gone on, I've had a lot of guilt rising up in me.  I felt that eating animals was somehow morally wrong, yet (having a strong science background in terms of formal education) I constantly battled myself because I felt that we are biologically made to do absolutely fine eating meat.  I have been struggling with reconciling both sides of myself for a couple of years now, and even read It Starts With Food just about a year ago while working at a local organic market.  An employee of mine ate a more ancestral diet and was just the epitome of health, and I was absolutely jealous (in the best way I can mean that!).  He also directed me towards Mark Sisson's Primal Blueprint and I really enjoyed that read.

I've considered switching to a different way of eating for a while, but have worried so much about the backlash I would receive from the community of people I call friends and colleagues.  Especially being that most times when someone goes from vegan to going back to meat, they are told they were never a vegan.  They are told they were never in it for the animals, etc etc.  That they were merely plant-based.  Being that I've fought so hard in the past for animal rights, have almost two decades (over half my life!) of not considering animals food under my belt, and have been so devout to this way of life -- I was in an absolute panic over the thought of being renounced and told that I was never really something that I've considered a cornerstone of all that is me for so long!

However recently, I've thought more and more, and I have done my best to now consider things from all sides of this and worry less about how others perceive me.  I also have been having some hair loss (not much, but I have noticed during my showers) despite being well-versed on "good vegan nutrition."  I don't think it's inherently from my veganism (since it's been so long!), but I also can't rule it out without making some healthy changes.  I am really excited to see how I do with a Whole30 since I've been researching paleo/primal nutrition for a while, so yea -- look forward to getting to know everyone a bit better!  I plan to start on Monday as I won't be able to visit the grocery until Sunday!

[MeadowLily]

You don't normally eat eggs?   Will your friends treat you differently because you're adding eggs?

If this is your personal log, I'll delete this post.

I'm not understanding, maybe you're not adding eggs.

 

 

There's a reason you're here.   

 

I had a health food mentor.  She's retired but owned a health food store for almost 50 years.   She had a food bar in the back of the store.   I helped her out on the weekends.   

 

She was up on what it takes to be a true vegetarian.  She knew all about the amount of foods to eat for proper protein macros and micros.  I don't see that anymore.  No one juices carrot juice and drinks buckets of it like they used to.   Those folks did have orange skin.    There were sprouts, legumes and nuts....I made so many avocado/sprout sandwiches. 

 

She used to tell me as a naturopath....show me someone who's invested 20 years into vegetarianism, and I'll show you someone's who's health will come to the crossroads.   There's a breaking point...not for all, not for all.   There are always exceptions to the rule.   She would take these people under her wing and help them.   She would encourage them to go eat a good steak every so often.   She was compassionate and respectful but when their hair was falling out with orange skin - she pleaded in her soft southern voice, her hand on their arm - looking straight into their eyes,  you need a good steak every now and then.   It's the only way to maintain your health.   

[Hutlifr]

If your friends are truly friends, they will understand.... And you don't owe any justification to colleagues.... You need to do what you need to do... It's that simple! Good luck on your journey

[Tom Denham]

I think one of the best ways to become comfortable with consuming animal protein is to spend time on a good organic farm with a farmer who loves and respects his animals. I am a CSA member at Cherith Farms in Alpharetta, Georgia where my friend/farmer raises sheep, chickens, rabbits, and a great variety of vegetables. My wife is a veterinarian and has helped him with the rabbits and sheep on several occasions. Spending time on the farm every week has helped me to appreciate the cycle of life. My farmer appreciates the cycle of life more than I do. I came up with a plan to raise his chickens inside netting so the hawks could not kill them. He did not want to cut the hawks off completely from his flock. Considering how low his profit margins are, I was surprised he felt some duty to sharing with the hawks. 

[Tina R]

I am not a vegan but I understand that you want to respect animals. I also think that investigating some farms that pasture raise their animals and give them the best life possible is a great idea. I personally think that we need to eat meat. I am not sure if we need to eat as much as some people suggest but I know a lot of people who were vegans and felt that that lifestyle lead to their poor health. They switched to paleo and began to feel so much better. Check out Dr Terry Wahls. There is an incredible farm in Temecula CA called Primal Pastures. Check out their FB page. You can even watch them process chickens at a workshop so you can see how the animals are treated if you live in the area. Good Luck!

[thehudlermom]

Good morning everyone! Thank you all so much for your kind replies, I appreciate all of them.

@MeadowLily: I've been adding in all animal products (meat, eggs, ghee) since this past Monday to be sure that things aren't hard on my stomach once I start my Whole30 on Monday. So the answer to your question would be that yes, I'm adding in eggs...but also meat and a small amount of ghee. I do believe that no one way of eating is necessarily right for everyone so I believe that there are people who will absolutely survive, and thrive, on a vegan diet. There are some absolutely amazing well-known vegan bodybuilders and endurance athletes that seem to prove that. However, I don't necessarily think that is the case for the majority of people. My personal opinion, that I wish there was a good way to research, is that the link between people and their best diet may lie in their ancestry. I can't imagine, just with the knowledge of biology I have, that people who have past roots in a tropical climate will thrive on the same eating habits of someone with an Inuit ancenstry. With us being able to scientifically link even what our mothers ate during pregnancy to our own health, and with the entire concept of Paleo and us not having evolved as much as some think, I think this is a valid theory. I just wish there was someone out there doing research on this theory, so if anyone is aware of something like this -- please let me know.

@Hutlifer: I only wish that this were the case. The problem is that since most of my friends are extremely passionate ethical vegans, my choice to eat meat again to them will be the equivelant of saying I've decided to start being a serial killer. Eating ghee to them will be the equivelent of saying I've decided to start raping people. While I am/was also an ethical vegan, I was always the type that was extremely compassionate to human-animals as well. My husband isn't vegan and I've actually written an article on interdietary households, I've always promoted us being loving and compassionate towards EVERYONE. While there are many other vegans like me, and the ones that are my friends will be fine with my choices...the majority of my close friends aren't those kind of vegans. They will view me as never being vegan and lying to them. The fact is, part of the guilt I have at the moment is because I have been in a similar frame of mind (meat=murder) for well, a very long time. While I was extremely compassionate, it doesn't change that changing your entire way of thinking is hard, but I also feel like I've been ignoring the science-side of things for a long time. I want to come at this from a logical ans well-researched stance, and as of now that seems to point to trying out paleo. We shall see! I appreciate your kind thoughts and the, "If they were your friends they'll understand" is totally the advice I'd give to someone in my position too. Sadly, in this situation I just need to realize that I'm going to lose a lot of my friends. I'm figuring I won't say anything until about a month after my Whole30. That will give me 30 days of strict eating, and then 30 days of reintroducing other foods to see how I feel. If after two months I'm feeling great -- I'll let others know. If I don't and I felt better eating strict vegetarian, I'll go back to being vegan. I feel like two months *should* be enough time to see if I'm doing well on this, right? Or should I give it more time? I want to be reasonable about it

@Tom: I think this is a great idea. We did take my children to a local farm last year when I was at the height of researching this lifestyle, and my kids loved it. They were even able to go and get the eggs from under the chickens and bring them home to eat. I have a lot of pictures from then, their favorite part was the rabbits. The guy who owns the farm, who is amazing, told us how he doesn't want to scare the animals. Since they raise the rabbits only for their family (of 9, which includes 5 adopted children!) they kill them right there. He actually holds them close to his body, pet them, and while he's basically cuddling them he snaps their neck. I actually saw this and my first thought was, "This is so much more humane than what they would deal with in the wild." I will be getting my meat from a farm about 10-15 minutes from my house that is all grass-fed/grass-finished, so I'll ask him about coming out and viewing the animals there as well

@Tina: I will definitely be doing this! Thank you and Tim both for suggesting it . I wrote about my experience last year at one of these farms in my response to him. I'm going to grab meat from the farm by my house (grass fed/finished, amazing prices...I get it for my husband) over the weekend and will talk to the guy there about going to see the animals. He's been super sweet to me in the past, so I'm sure he'll be totally cool with that. I'm actually very far from California (over in NC lol), but I know of another farm here that has poultry that I may speak to. I think this whole thing is going to be quite the journey for me! It's so weird because eating meat is the standard for most people, so sometimes people will try going vegetarian but go back to eating meat simply because it's all they know, it's their comfort zone. I'm the exact opposite with that, eating meat is what's out of my comfort zone. I can make a mean veggie buddha bowl, I can make some tofu that will please the most picky of pallettes...but I have no idea how to roast a chicken. I do know how to make eggs lol, but that's because my family raised chickens for eggs whenever I was a child and I always made them for the family and now make them for my husband and children. So yea, we'll see!

Thank you again everyone for your comments, I'ms really excited to go shopping this weekend! Thankfully I already ate pretty healthy. While yes, I did sometimes have some chips or cookies, the majority of my diet has been tofu or beans, veggies, and fruit. I had pasta or rice maybe twice per week. So yea, I'm excited to start Monday. Thank you for all the encouragement .

Also excuse any typos, tried to type this all out on my tablet and am about to run out the door so I don't have time to go spell/grammar check at the moment. Have a good day!

[Loulabelle]

I'd like to echo what the others say about eating meat; it can be done in an ethical way. You don't have to buy meat that comes from factories (I won't call them farms) get it from a farm that has good animal husbandry. We found a small farm only 2km from where we live, the farmers are warm wonderful people who pride themselves on selling happy meat. They believe that you can only get great tasting meat from animals that have led good lives. They sell their produce from a tiny little shop on the farm itself and I am very pleased to be able to buy from them. To be honest if I can't buy good meat for some reason I'll skip it in favour of a veggie meal.

[thehudlermom]

I'd like to echo what the others say about eating meat; it can be done in an ethical way. You don't have to buy meat that comes from factories (I won't call them farms) get it from a farm that has good animal husbandry. We found a small farm only 2km from where we live, the farmers are warm wonderful people who pride themselves on selling happy meat. They believe that you can only get great tasting meat from animals that have led good lives. They sell their produce from a tiny little shop on the farm itself and I am very pleased to be able to buy from them. To be honest if I can't buy good meat for some reason I'll skip it in favour of a veggie meal.

Man, much easier to respond to everyone now that I'm on a computer and not my tablet .

Question for you about your personal thoughts on good meat vs just eating a veggie meal.  What kind of protein would you personally choose if you were in that situation?  I ask because it seems like overall paleo doesn't seem keen on beans or tofu, so I wasn't sure what someone may choose to eat if they were in that situation.  I feel like this is how I would be, if I can't buy the good stuff I would just want to opt for a vegetarian meal.

The good thing is that shouldn't be an issue considering the place near my house that is grass-fed/finished is extremely reasonable in price.  CAFO ground beef at the grocery store is typically about $3/pound and the farm near the house is just $4/pound, and if you get a half cow it ends up costing the same as the stuff at the grocery.  I'm considering if I find that this way of life works for me, that I'll go in with two of my close-by friends who eat paleo/primal and get a whole 1/2.

[MeadowLily]

You don't have to travel with the pack, follow the herd or graze with the sheep.   That's MAJOR.   

 

The Inuit is often held up as an example of the Paleo lifestyle.   But I've learned that Native Americans like myself, Hawaiians, South Americans,  Irish, Italians,  "Friends, Romans, Countrymen....lend me your ears"  ...can all benefit from meals without Paleo desserts, health food store potato chips, crackers and gluten-free snacks.

 

I'd consider it a wondrous thing and everything a person could ask for from themselves when it comes to listening to their body and mind.    In the west, we call it good sense.

[thehudlermom]

Went out this morning to start shopping for my Whole30. I now have an amazing fridge full of fresh produce, local eggs, and some local seafood (yay for living at the coast!). I also have a few great cuts of local grassfed/finished beef and pastured pork in my freezer. I am part of a food buying club and made my order, so I should also have a delivery of chicken (they are free range/foraging) some time next week. I'm going to spend this weekend doing some food prep and am super excited to start on Monday!

When I went out to the one farmer's place I asked him if the cows grazing in the field across the road were theirs. He said yes and then asked if I wanted to go visit with them. Um, YES PLEASE! He talked to me about how they have four fields and they rotate the herd between them so that no field is ever over-grazed. He confirmed again that they are fed grass their entire lives, no grain (etc) whatsoever. He went over their entire process and let me go into the field with him to visit with them. It was a great experience, and so obvious that he really cared for them. I still am battling with my conscience when it comes to killing something that has a will to live, but I no longer have any qualms with how these animals are treated during their life...as long as I research the farms beforehand. I think that the key, for me, to reconciling my issues with killing them is going to come in having a reverance and respect for all life. I need to find my own way to thank them, if that makes sense.

Anyway, I'm rambling as always Hope everyone is having a great weekend so far!

[ShannonM816]

If you haven't already found them, you might like the Conscientious Omnivore series of posts over on the Whole9 blog. Dallas and Melissa are both former vegetarians who have chosen to eat meat because they believe it's the best protein option for their health. Start with this one, it's their sort of introduction to the series.

[MeadowLily]

I can see that you're very tender hearted.   That's such a great quality.  This is going to be a personal journey for you.  Good job going.

[thehudlermom]

@shannon: Thank you so much for that link, I had no idea they had been vegetarians! I'm currently working on reading over the updated version of It Starts With Food, but going to take the time out of the day to read that series. Thanks again!

@MeadowLily: I think it will be as well, thank you again so much for all your kind comments so far!

[thehudlermom]

DAY 1

Well everyone, it's officially day one!

I don't know that I'll take pictures every day, but I'm going to attempt to. I want to be able to hold myself accountable for my food choices, so I think publically posting what I'm eating will help with that. I am probably going to eat massive portions for the first few days haha. I'm a grazer, I'm known at work for almost *constantly* eating. So to eat just three meals means I'm going big lol...at least for now So let's get to it!

Today's Goals:

Exercise: Morning, walk for one hour. Completed, ended up being 2.25 miles.

Breakfast: 4 eggs cooked in ghee with spinach, mushrooms, kalamata olives, and some leftover chicken from dinner last night. Also, some raspberries. Completed, delicious!

Lunch: Spinach and iceburg lettuce salad with cucumbers, red apples, and leftover chicken from dinner. Typically I don't do iceburg because I don't like the (lack of) taste, but all the others at the grocery seemed slimy. Completed. Had three co-workers tell me how tasty it looked.

Dinner: Seared tuna steak with asparagus. Completed. Added a couple of seared shrimp from my meal prep for tomorrow.

Sleeping: My goal is to have TVs/Tablet off for the whole family by 7pm, then be in bed by 8:30. Which means actually falling asleep around 9. Will set my alarm for 5:30, but I usually wake up a few minutes before it goes off anyway.

I will also be posting photos to my new Instagram account (thehudlermom).

Edit: Eek, I should have resized those pictures down a bit haha

[thehudlermom]

Trying to decide what time I want to eat lunch.  I'm hungry (I think...I don't even know), but this is also around the time I usually grab a "pre-lunch snack."  Trying to drink some more water and wait it out.  I think it's honestly just my tendency to graze all day getting to me rather than actually being hungry.  Also, I just hate that we are so out of touch with our natural instincts that I can't even tell whether or not I'm even hungry.

[ladyshanny]

Trying to decide what time I want to eat lunch.  I'm hungry (I think...I don't even know), but this is also around the time I usually grab a "pre-lunch snack."  Trying to drink some more water and wait it out.  I think it's honestly just my tendency to graze all day getting to me rather than actually being hungry.  Also, I just hate that we are so out of touch with our natural instincts that I can't even tell whether or not I'm even hungry.

It is entirely possible that, having approached Whole30 from a vegan background, that your body could be receiving in the nutrition from your animal based protein products and cry out for more.  As you are no doubt aware, animal based protein contains the complete amino acids that the body needs, vegan protein sources are generally combined to try and make up the complete set.  

 

We sometimes hear of people coming from a terrible SAD diet and being unbelievably hungry even when eating to the highest end of the template.  We chalk this up to their body crying out for the newly found nutrients.  It is possible that your body may do something similar once it gets its proverbial hands on these complete proteins.

 

If you are hungry, eat.  Protein, fat and veggies.  Eat food. As much as you need.  

[thehudlermom]

It is entirely possible that, having approached Whole30 from a vegan background, that your body could be receiving in the nutrition from your animal based protein products and cry out for more.  As you are no doubt aware, animal based protein contains the complete amino acids that the body needs, vegan protein sources are generally combined to try and make up the complete set.  

 

We sometimes hear of people coming from a terrible SAD diet and being unbelievably hungry even when eating to the highest end of the template.  We chalk this up to their body crying out for the newly found nutrients.  It is possible that your body may do something similar once it gets its proverbial hands on these complete proteins.

 

If you are hungry, eat.  Protein, fat and veggies.  Eat food. As much as you need.  

So instead of just a snack (let's say, an orange) I should basically make it a mini-meal?  Like maybe some melon wrapped in prosciutto and a few nuts?  I ended up making it until lunch, we'll see how things go as dinner time gets closer!

Edit: Wait, you said veggies -- so should I nix the melon and do maybe some prosciutto wrapped green beans?  Or does it really matter?  I don't eat a bunch of fruit anyway, so it's nothing I'd personally go overboard with.

[ladyshanny]

Yes, if you are legitimately hungry then you should eat a mini meal of protein, fat and veggies.  Fruit on its own can be a problem-child because it jacks your blood sugar quickly leading to a bit of a roller coaster.

 

We recommend that you start with veggies, protein and fat and add fruit at the end of the meal or mini meal so that the fruit isn't pushing the veggies off your plate.

 

Also be aware that nuts as a fat source are fine but they should be one of many that you use.  Nuts can cause digestive distress for some and for many others they are a food without brakes.  

[MeadowLily]

If you are hungry, eat.  Protein, fat and veggies.  Eat food. As much as you need.  

 

That's what she said and I second it.  Fruits and nuts are not a mini-meal.  That's a snack.   

 

Fruits, dried fruits, nuts and nut butters are the favorite go=to items that many people choose for continued snacking.

Snacking doesn't break the old cycles, it perpetuates them.  Snacking is not forbidden but discouraged.    Hone in on your three excellent meals aday.   In 30 days, you'll know the difference between cravings and true hunger. 

 

Snacking is the old approach and will no longer serve you with your new goals.   Your new goals are the recipe for success.

[thehudlermom]

Thanks to both of you . I made it from breakfast to lunch and lunch to dinner . I'm running a little late, but it's time for electronics off. See everyone tomorrow!

[thehudlermom]

Sleep didn't go as planned thanks to some kind of sickies going on in my house. Myself and my youngest are ridiculously sick. I only slept a couple of hours.

Today's gameplan:

Exercise: None, I don't think it will be a good idea with how I'm feeling.

Breakfast: 2 eggs cooked in ghee with spinach, mushrooms, leftover asparagus from dinner, and homemade sausage.

Lunch: Homemade sausage filled mushrooms with brussels sprouts.

Dinner: Roasted mushrooms and broccoli with leftover garlic shrimp.

[thehudlermom]

Well, things are getting postponed for a few days. Found myself in extreme pain, after an hour of not being able to get out of bed and trying to reach out to someone for help (was trying to avoid 911), my mother in law showed up. I believe it is a gallbladder attack (from what a friend said, which I looked up and it made sense) and I am giving it until 7 (which will put it at almost 4 hours non-stop) to stop or we are headed to the ER. Otherwise willbe heading to the doctor tomorrow.

Sitting and standing I'd put pain at a 7, but if I lay down it's a 10. I'm talking on par with my going thrpugh natural childbirth.

So yea, I am going to keep things up as much as I can for the next couple of days, but if my husband decides to cook and accidently uses butter...I'll eat it as long as it means not having to get out of bed. Looking towards a new start date of Friday if I don't end up needing surgery or something. Lordy.

[Hutlifr]

Oh no... Missing post. Hope everything is alright!

[ladyshanny]

oh NO!!! Wishing you a speedy recovery!

[thehudlermom]

Thank you ladies for your concern!! What a day! I had already taken the day off from work because I was sick, then all this happened. I ended up taking a percocet I had left over from a previous hospital stay (for an injury). I wanted to see if it would help. It kicked in around 7:15, at which point I was so sleepy I couldn't hold my head up. I couldn't lay down since it hurt so much worse than sitting up, so I passed out on my in law's couch sitting up with a pillow behind my head. My husband went through heck at work for them to realize it was an emergency and he needed to leave. He took care of me, bringing me water and food Before I drifted off. Woke up about a half hour later and the pain was still there, but not as bad. So I gave it another half hour and it was gone. I hadn't been able to take deep breath at that point (without excruciating pain) for almost 6 hours, then suddenly I could and it was the best feeling ever.

So we are calling in the morning for me to set up a doctor's appointment, because this wasn't normal and if there is something they can fix...I want it fixed. Spoke to a few other friends who also said my symptoms sounded like a gallbladder attack, and that's when I realized other things I've been dealing with for a few weeks also point to gallbladder issues.

Urgh, I was just recently raving about how I hadnt had to go to a doctor for being sick in god...5 years? Guess I jinxed myself.

We'll see how tomorrow goes.