Day 21, no better than day 7

[Nicole Carusone Morgan]

I have been keeping a close eye on the race and run fueling threads and I am not having much luck. I did not eat super poorly prior to this attempt at Whole30. I mostly ate clean, but I like ice cream as my cheat and I was cheating more than I was comfortable with. I did some Paleo recipes, but did include brown rice and whole wheat pasta 3-4 times per week.

Before Whole30, my runs were pretty consistent. My non-specific training runs are usually between 3 and 4 miles with 6-8 miles long run on Sundays. Today being the 3rd attempt at a long rung since starting the process, I was anticipating a slightly better pace, but burned out at mile 4. I didn't use fuel of any kind on a 7 mile run prior, so I haven't really been bringing anything. My pre run meal was about an hour or so prior and consisted of chicken, sweet potatoes and asparagus. I was very well hydrated through the day. I'm struggling in my shorter morning runs also. I used to eat a banana prior to running in the morning and now I eat a hard boiled egg or a serving of applegate uncured Genoa salami.

On a longer run of more than 4 miles how do I know when to eat something and should I be drinking coconut water during a run? I drink it post run each time.

I am not craving sugar, but I miss the energy I had with bananas and honey stingers. My goal is to run with just whole foods and no sugars. I will be training for my first full and I have 3 halves on the way to it. I am curious to see if the next 9 days do anything significantly different. Also, my clothes do not feel any different so I am a bit over sensitive to giving up so much with no visually apparent differences. The positive effects I have are the sleep assistance, going to bed at the same time and waking at the same time. I am not experiencing any sluggishness for regular activity.

Thank you for all the wisdom I have been reading and I'm sure you all can help provide encouragement for my next 9 days.

Thanks!

[evaq]

That must be very frustrating. I sympathize whole heartedly. My running has been off since I undertook my whole 30.

 

So I have several questions - some from the runner in me, some from the whole 30er. I think trying to do a whole 30 while you're also ramping up for race season (and leading to a full marathon) is going to be challenging. Not impossible, but I think you're going to have to prioritize what's more important to you: the quality/feel of your running OR your overall health. You might not be able to have both at the same time - at least not right now. You have to keep in mind that you're putting your body through 2 separate (but simultaneous) sets of stressful adaptations: running and a nutritional reset.

 

I think it's completely feasible to be a whole 30er and endurance athlete. There have been/are several that have done so on this forum, but the transition is bumpy. You need to be patient and there will some trial, error and fails (or learned lessons) involved.

 

Running questions

 

What's your total mileage to date (roughly)?

How long have you been running?
How many races have you done and what distance?

How often do you run/train? I'm assuming 3-4x week? Tempo runs + speed work + LSD?

How were your 2 previous LSD runs?

How far out is your next race?

Are you training for a specific time goal or will you be satisfied to finish the race upright and in good order?

 

*Sorry for all the nitpicky running questions. I just want to get a sense of how well your body is already adapted to running and the distances/races for which you're training. The more years/mileage/distance you have under your belt, the less difficult the transition will be ie. you won't be adjusting to *both* a new diet and new stresses from increasing your mileage.

 

Whole 30 questions

 

How much of your diet/meals included grains/legumes/dairy prior to whole 30?

Can you give 2-3 days worth of current meals (qty, time of day etc)?

Is your intention to keep/maintain a whole 30 diet beyond the next 9 days?

Do you have any NSV that you've noticed? You mentioned more regular sleeping patterns. Anything else?

[Tom Denham]

Some people become reasonably fat-adapted in two weeks, while others can take 4-5 weeks. Back when I was a serious runner - 15-20 mile long runs at least once per week - it was common for me to run with water only. I ran faster when I consumed a banana on long runs, but could perform fairly well without. Based upon my history, I think a lot of people have a psychological dependence on sugar to boost runs under 10 miles. 

 

I second evaq asking about 2-3 days of all your meals. Your performance is dependent upon everything you are eating, not just your pre-workout or in-workout eating.

[Nicole Carusone Morgan]

Running questions

 

***What's your total mileage to date (roughly)?  I started using Runkeeper in October 2013 and I have logged 721.  I know this number is higher due to days I don't use my phone to track, but have gotten better at manually entering.  I purchased a Garmin in May and try to keep it for all runs.

***How long have you been running?  I have been running most recently, after a hiatus,  for 2 years with the past year to year and a half more earnestly.  I have asthma, I only do interval running/walking.  The furthest I have ever run non stop was 2.5  and it was probably the hardest thing I have ever done.  Intervals keep me out of the hospital and I am much faster doing intervals.
***How many races have you done and what distance?  I have completed many 5k's a couple 10k's, 3 half marathons in the past 8 months and a couple of sprint triathlons in the past.

***How often do you run/train? I'm assuming 3-4x week? Tempo runs + speed work + LSD?   Since starting Whole30, I have not had enough energy to do speed workouts.  I typically do Fartlek or timed intervals.  I run 2-3 times 3-4 miles each and one Longer run on Sundays 5-8 miles when not training for a race.  I go to Crossfit 2 x per week.

***How were your 2 previous LSD runs?  My HM on Jan 25th was at 10:46 min/mile; a 4 mile standard run for me was at 10:12 per mile/ my 12/31st run was 5 miles at 9:59 pace (a personal best for 5 miles)  My 5k is at 29min, but I could not do it today.  These are pre- whole30.  Post Whole30 a 4 mile run is all over...  I have paces at 10:41/10:58/10:48  all slower, but in all actuality not that much.  My last (2) 7 mile runs were vastly different.  The first one after starting Whole30 was 12:03 and last week was 11:05.  Yesterday was a struggle, I stopped my garmin at 4 miles and that pace is 10:58.  I walked the last intended mile just to do the miles I had wanted.

***How far out is your next race?  My full is not until February 28th of 2016, so plenty of time to get this figured out  I will do 3 half marathons before then.  Aug/Sept/Oct (I'm searching for one)  November 15th/ January 17th

***Are you training for a specific time goal or will you be satisfied to finish the race upright and in good order?  For my full I would love to finish in under 5 hours.  My PR for a half is at 2:22:24 and I am hoping to beat that in the January race.

 

Whole 30 questions

 

***How much of your diet/meals included grains/legumes/dairy prior to whole 30?  Prior, I would eat black beans/chickpeas, brown rice and Whole wheat pasta for some dinners.  My dairy was already pretty much cut out due to clean eating, but I would enjoy vanilla ice cream the day before a long run or as a reward (haha) for hard work.  Yes, I know this is flawed

***Can you give 2-3 days worth of current meals (qty, time of day etc)?  I did track for a few days on my fitness pal to see what I was doing.  it is a lot to try to type.  I am open to adding specific friends to help me with the food end.  I could not figure out quickly on my phone how to disable the exercise sync since the calories are probably incorrect.  My typical breakfast is 1 large cup of coffee; 2 eggs; 3 oz of chicken or pork or leftover dinner meat, and a small saute pan full of veggies (usually peppers, onions, kale, spinach, sweet potatoes); typical lunch is salad with lots of veggies 6 oz of protein, hard boiled egg and Tessamae's lemon dressing 1 Tblsp or a 20g protein tuna can or 6 oz meat, veggies and sweet potatoes 3/4 cup/ a serving of fruit ;  Typical dinner is 2 servings ish of meat and again some kind of veggies.  If I still feel hungry I will have a serving of fruit with my dinner.  I love avocado, I am averaging 2 avocados a week.  I cook in coconut oil and ghee.     Since I am a teacher (slacking to type this, lol)  I eat breakfast at 6:30 am on non run days then lunch at 10:30 am a snack of fruit and nuts at 2 pm; If i am going to crossfit (2x per wk) I will eat 2 hard boiled eggs or a serving of chicken at 4 ish for a 5:30 workout.  Dinner is at 7:30 on CF nights and earlier around 5:30 on non CF nights.  Other than the 2pm snack, I Have not been snacking.  I just cannot go from 10:30-5:30 without food.  I am drinking around 64 oz of water per day.  If I run in the morning I drink more.  It is a challenge in itself.

***Is your intention to keep/maintain a whole 30 diet beyond the next 9 days?  Yes, but I do have a planned "off-plan" time frame, but it will still be mostly on plan.  I chose to be DD so I will indulge in 1-2 glasses of champagne over the period of a week or so and maybe 1 beer.  I don't plan to go overboard and have picked restaurants that serve compliant meals.  I do intend to have banana ice cream as I know the dairy will not be tolerated.  I already utilized the 3 bite rule (mostly), so I will employ that strategy again for this period of time.

***Do you have any NSV that you've noticed? You mentioned more regular sleeping patterns. Anything else?  Unfortunately, I do not have any other success yet.  My clothing still fits the same as it did prior, possibly tighter in the legs due to muscle growth, but no apparent slimming in the waist or bust or tummy.  I know things take time, I am trying to be more patient.  I think the sleep has really been the only real impact I have seen.  When I am awake, I am awake and when I am asleep, I really am sleeping.  I do not have boundless energy.  I definitely perk up after meal 1 which is why I played with time of day for long run, but nothing significant.

 

I began this journey to get out of the "sugar for fuel" method of running.  On one of my HMs, I should have done better, but I crashed after mile 9.  I still had a great time, but my experience was dramatically different.  The following HM was 1 week later and I did the exact same time but was more even through the race. Still I know I could have run faster, but was in the middle of the pack and it was a larger race.  I literally tripped over people there were so many.  So my goal is to figure out where I need to start putting in calories and which ones.  I plan to do sweet potato mashed for my next longer run, but I am not back up to double digit runs, so I wonder if I should be doing something differently.  I would love to say time is not a factor, because I use it as a measure of my ability, but I am also taking into consideration the effort I feel on the run.  It is taking more effort to do easy runs, they all feel like speed workouts!  I do not have the sprinting ability back yet either. 

 

Thank you again!

 

 

[evaq]

Thank you so much for writing such a thorough and detailed reply! Really, wow.

 

Some of the more experienced whole 30ers will chime in but here's my two cents:

 

I can see why it's a head scratcher. Your eating seems to be bang on (with a small suggestion to maybe try more protein and less fruit/nuts as a snack) and yet the only visible gains you're seeing from 3 weeks of whole 30 is better sleep. Better sleep is a HUGE win by the way, so celebrate it! Meanwhile, you're struggling with your current running/training load. It sounds like your running is just slow to transition to your new lifestyle and diet. Maybe try a few tweaks with the vegetables? For example, the evening before your long run, make sure you have a portion of sweet potato with your dinner. In fact, maybe try incorporating some sweet potato before a few runs and see if they make a difference. ie. If you run in the morning, try eating some sweet potato for dinner the night before. If you run in the evening, try adding some sweet potato to your lunch. The starchy complex carbs might be the bridging fuel you need to make your running flow easier.

 

Note: If you're accustomed to running with Honey Stingers and bananas pre or during your runs, it's going to take a little bit of time to wean your body from that expectation. Changing anything in your running is like disturbing an eco system. It'll take a bit of time for the ripples to subside.

 

My only other suggestion running wise is to ditch or hide your Garmin for the next 4-6 weeks. While your body is transitioning to your new diet, your best bet is to focus on the quality of your run and not your pace or time. And by quality of run, I mean if you're doing a long slow run, make sure the pace is EASY, that it feels easy to you. Don't try to force or match a pace or time. Let your body and its feedback determine what that pace is. If you're doing fartleks, go hard. Again, don't force a time/pace. Just run by feel. Ditto for recovery periods. Don't just rest for 30-60 seconds between sets. Rest until you're recovered. Go by feel. The Garmin is like a very unhelpful, pushy scale at this point in your journey. It's data but it offers no context to where you are and what you've achieved. And it definitely offers zero insight into the subtle but significant work that you're undergoing: you're building a more powerful and efficient engine, for running and for your life.

 

Mostly, try to be kind and patient with yourself - not just for your whole 30, not with your running, but period. Sounds like you have a full schedule and it's very easy to get focussed on the things that need improvement vs all the great things you're doing. You've done 3 HMs in 8 months, plan to do another 3 more in 9 months and then top it off with a full marathon! That is packed. In fact, a part of me wonders if your body wants/needs a short rest period. Not stop running - but stop training for a race. You're in the early stages of your running life. Improvements are going to come. I promise!

 

Best of luck with your whole 30 and in all your races (and your running)! I hope the bumpy transition gets smoothed over soon.

 

ps. I wouldn't fret about your avocado consumption. I eat 3 1/2 avocadoes every week. I make an alarmingly large salad for lunch every day and pop in 1/2 an avocado per salad.

[Michael M.]

I am also struggling, but only at Day 7. I've been running for about 20 years - usually 3 or 4 half marathons a year and plenty of 10ks. I had a half marathon last week that went fine, but every run since starting the whole30 last week has been pretty awful - legs feel like they are cement and trouble with overall energy during the run. I usually don't need much of a recovery after a half marathon, so this is unusual for me, and I've tried some of the pre-workout food recommendations. I'll stick with it, just frustrated with the runs and hoping it gets better soon (I have a 10 mile run next weekend).

Thanks

[Physibeth]

I am also struggling, but only at Day 7. I've been running for about 20 years - usually 3 or 4 half marathons a year and plenty of 10ks. I had a half marathon last week that went fine, but every run since starting the whole30 last week has been pretty awful - legs feel like they are cement and trouble with overall energy during the run. I usually don't need much of a recovery after a half marathon, so this is unusual for me, and I've tried some of the pre-workout food recommendations. I'll stick with it, just frustrated with the runs and hoping it gets better soon (I have a 10 mile run next weekend).

Thanks

 

This is completely normal at this stage in your Whole30. I had 2 weeks of lead legs when I made the paleo transition (I didn't start with Whole30 personally) and then a noticeable increase in performance followed. Focus on getting great nutrition and be gentle with your runs until your body gets used to processing fat for its fuel instead of sugar.