Dessert

[lcs75]

Hello,

 

I know we are talking about healthy psychological responses - so my question:

 

After lunch I had an appled with nut butter - and I know I should incorporate that into my dinner, rather than treating it as a dessert.

 

My after dinner fruit tonight is stewed rhubarb and apple (no sugar or sweetener) and almond-coconut crumble with coconut cream. Is that ok? I cannot eat rhubarb raw and it is in season at home so I need to cook something with it Hubby got the full rhubarb-apple-crumble

 

Thanks x

[AmyS]

The Whole30 rules say no dessert. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

In your very specific case, though, evaluate what you need in order to maintain a healthy relationship with food. I know you're aiming at a full-on Whole30, and if you want to do that, it's a dessert-free zone. A crumble is dessert, so it's a no-go. You just need to keep evaluating if this is good for your relationship with food or not. Your relationship with food matters more in your case than completing a Whole30.

 

So you have larger questions to ask yourself, and possibly to discuss with trusted loved ones who really know you and who can help you check in. What's best for you? That's the main question.

 

(If you determine that finishing out a true Whole30 is best for you, cancel the desserts.)

[lcs75]

Thanks Amy,

I will think about this. I am confused, when I believe food is healthy, i.e. apples, nuts... and I cannot eat them how or when I want. But I am open for ideas, like eating a big meal early in the morning, is awesome and I also love having 3 meals a day, that is so much less stressful and I don't have the big dips.

It's a journey, thanks for your advise.

[MeadowLily]

On a Whole 30, only 30 dessert free days.   It's not about the healthy foods that go into creating a dessert...it is about food formations.

 

Healthy dessert formations are reminders of the authentic dessert.   They stir up cravings and longings for the real thing.   There are basically only 3 ingredients that go into the making of any dessert.

 

Flour

Sugar

Butter or oil

 

From these 3 items, cookies and cakes, every bakery item known to man is made.  The formations may look slightly different but it's all the same ingredients.   When we try to recreate a dessert, it's a throwback to the highly craved flour, sugar, butter formation that our body screams for.  

 

Avoiding familiar formations is the best possible way to break the cycles of food binging or thrill eating on a Whole 30 and beyond.

[kirkor]

From these 3 items, cookies and cakes, every bakery item known to man is made.

And the other "unholy trinity" of snack food: sugar, salt, fat

[ladyshanny]

Just a quick suggestion, if rhubarb is in season and you don't want to waste it, why don't you stew it with apples and oranges and then can it and save it for AFTER your Whole30?

Yes, you found fruit and nuts and you technically CAN eat them but it's only 30 days.....you can turn it down for 30 days!

[AmyS]

Thanks Amy,

I will think about this. I am confused, when I believe food is healthy, i.e. apples, nuts... and I cannot eat them how or when I want. But I am open for ideas, like eating a big meal early in the morning, is awesome and I also love having 3 meals a day, that is so much less stressful and I don't have the big dips.

It's a journey, thanks for your advise.

Yes, do think about what this means for you, in your specific context. You are asking very solid questions.

 

From a Whole30 perspective, fruit and nuts combined in dessert-like fashion have two problems:

 

The first is that they often push vegetables and better fat choices off of the plate. On Whole30 we really do want folks to eat up, and eat lots. What we want them to eat lots of includes veggies and fat. Fruit is optional on Whole30 and nuts are a potential problem for digestive distress and keeping junk food eating habits alive.

 

The second problem is that these foods, combined and eaten in these ways, do not address the Whole30er's need to change their relationship with food. Most of us have a habit of undereating the most readily nutrient-dense foods in order to save for snacks, desserts, and other treats made of less nutrient-dense (or simply junk) foods. Recreating those experiences with ingredients that are technically Whole30 compliant does not alter one's relationship with food. Undereating nutrient-dense protein/fat/veggie meals in order to eat nutrient-light(er) desserts/snacks/treats keeps folks cycling in the same eating patterns as they had pre-Whole30.

 

In your case, these things may or may not be useful to your overall context and your goal to develop a truly healthy relationship with food. It's most important for you to evaluate whether these things contribute to YOU having a healthy relationship with food. If so, carry on - if not, do what is best for your personal context.

 

But again, if Whole30 continues to be a path you wish to follow, eat up, eat lots, eat meals, and don't let anything that's not a great deal of nutritious food push any of that nutritious food to the side. Eat up!

[lcs75]

Thanks

 

Sorry to be a pain, but is it okay, if I eat my fruit and nuts with my main meal? I have done that before, would that be better to break the dessert habit? Apples are just awesome at the moment - it is autumn here and I get them fresh from the farmer. I mainly eat seasonal fruit and veg, so yes it is a treat. I don't eat apples after the farm shop closes for winter or my orange, passion fruit etc trees are empty.

 

I will stew the rest of the rhubarb

 

I take it that my new found love to roasted almonds (in cocount oil) with rosemary and salt are not compliant I had them a couple of times instead of dinner - and I know I shouldn not skip dinner anyhow.

 

Through the Whole 30 I am trying to find trigger foods, as I suffer from IBS since early last year. But I am also trying to learn a healthier relationship with food, and that is a change for life.

 

@AmyS I am eating up, and it is not easy to finish my plate always, I made it large enough now that it feeds me until the next meal - and I am putting on weight, which I don't need to, as I am in the middle of the healthy weight range (144lbs/5'6''). I think it is a combination of eating more and actually being able to digest it - IBS has been pretty bad in the last year. Putting weight on does make me nervous, but I have taken the batteries out of all scales and hid them to give this a real go Do you mind having a look at my meal sizes / combinations - there are photos in my log, see link below.

 

Thanks

[lynneg]

Appreciate the comments about dessert. I rarely eat sugary foods during the day but boy do I enjoy my sweet dessert in the evening.

Today is Day 3 and I'm doing ok with just a cup of plain herbal tea in the evening after dinner.

I'm hoping my Whole 30 will help me break this night sweet/snacking habit.

[MeadowLily]

Add all snack foods to your main meals.  Eat them there to develop positive food management then cut them entirely.

[AmyS]

Thanks

 

Sorry to be a pain, but is it okay, if I eat my fruit and nuts with my main meal? I have done that before, would that be better to break the dessert habit? Apples are just awesome at the moment - it is autumn here and I get them fresh from the farmer. I mainly eat seasonal fruit and veg, so yes it is a treat. I don't eat apples after the farm shop closes for winter or my orange, passion fruit etc trees are empty.

 

I will stew the rest of the rhubarb

 

I take it that my new found love to roasted almonds (in cocount oil) with rosemary and salt are not compliant I had them a couple of times instead of dinner - and I know I shouldn not skip dinner anyhow.

 

Through the Whole 30 I am trying to find trigger foods, as I suffer from IBS since early last year. But I am also trying to learn a healthier relationship with food, and that is a change for life.

 

@AmyS I am eating up, and it is not easy to finish my plate always, I made it large enough now that it feeds me until the next meal - and I am putting on weight, which I don't need to, as I am in the middle of the healthy weight range (144lbs/5'6''). I think it is a combination of eating more and actually being able to digest it - IBS has been pretty bad in the last year. Putting weight on does make me nervous, but I have taken the batteries out of all scales and hid them to give this a real go Do you mind having a look at my meal sizes / combinations - there are photos in my log, see link below.

 

Thanks

Keep in mind that fruit is optional on Whole30. If you do choose to include it in your Whole30, we recommend that you eat 1-2 servings a day, with or immediately after main meals only.

 

Nuts are a fat source on Whole30, and they are very problematic because they keep your sugar dragon roaring and because they cause such intense digestive distress for many.

 

Since you deal with digestive issues, eating well cooked vegetables and severely limiting or cutting out fruits and nuts might be a positive option for you.

 

Beyond this, consider that dessert and snacking are not really Whole30 concepts. We want you to eat meals. Lots of food. We don't want you to nibble, snack, graze, eat treats/cheats/desserts, etc. We actually, for real and for true, want you to really sit down and EAT. I eat dinner out of former mixing bowls sometimes.

 

I'll go check out your meal photos and be back!

[AmyS]

First of all, congratulations on your soon-to-be-a-grandma status!! That sounds so exciting!!

 

Second, thanks for sharing the photos of your meals. During the times you've posted, I'd say your meals look pretty good. I do notice during the times you restarted, that just prior to the re-start you were eating very little food. I suspect that along with the travel and social situations you were dealing with, that you were also hungry. Keep this in mind and fortify yourself against the day by actually eating every meal.

 

You might also develop a plan for dealing with travel and social situations as they arise during your Whole30. Folks here on the forums talk about these kinds of things a lot, so if you browse around you might find some tips.

 

Eat up, enjoy your happy news, and all the best as your journey continues. And eat up. Did I say to eat up? Because eat up.

[lcs75]

Thank you so much Amy! I am over the moon to be a grandma

 

I started my Whole 30 journey on 1st March and have since cut down massively on fruit, as much as going down to 1 apple (a massive one I have to admit) that I would eat 1/2 at lunch and the rest at dinner with some nut butter. I do eat my fruit normally immediately after my main meal, but i can also eat it with my main meal again - I do not mind the changes of sweet and savoury during a meal.

 

I keep forgetting about nuts and sugar! Thanks for the reminder! With my apple-rhubarb stew, nuts and coconut cream was the only "sweetener" and yes it did taste how sweet that was. I actually love tasting the natural sweetness of food since cutting out sugar - like I said, I have started on this journey a while ago, I was not like this on my initial Day 3. I will write a bit on this in my log.

 

 

Thanks also for the feedback on my food. There were a few instances where I was starving at work, but I should be home for the next 28 days (fingers crossed) so I should have sufficient control over what I put on my plate. I have also started looking more through the forum now, which does have a lot of info.

 

Just one comment regarding eat up - and I have understood that I should eat up: I had the nuts yesterday afternoon (I grabbed as many as i could) and really did not feel like finishing my dinner - do I then force myself to eat up? That is probably the one thing, why i would like to measure my food, so I can tell myself that yes I should eat up, even if I am full. I am fine to tell myself this during the day, but I hate being full at night. Sorry I know that this is a red flag question, but how do I know that I am eating enough, not enough... I had dinner about 11 hours ago and I am not hungry now, I did not wake up during the night being hungry, so I feel that i did the right thing?

 

Cheerio x

[AmyS]

If you feel full/satisfied and you haven't finished your meal, it's OK to put it away and keep it for later, in case you feel hungry before your next meal.

 

Generally speaking, eating a solid breakfast/meal one is the key to feeling satisfied during the day. A true sign that your hormones are out of alignment is not feeling hungry in the morning when or shortly after you wake up. The fix for this is to prepare a full template meal and eat as much of it as you can, then wrap it up and eat the rest later when you feel hungry again. Over time, you'll be able to eat more and then you'll be able to eat a full breakfast. The ability to eat a full breakfast will set you up for a solid lunch and dinner.

 

Measuring food using weights gives you improper information. It only tells you about that food's relationship to gravity. What you do want to do is to learn to identify when you are truly hungry, when you are tired, thirsty, emotional, etc, and what to do about each of those situations. For this, you need to begin measuring yourself by checking in with your body on a regular basis. No food measuring system can do this for you.

 

So for instance, you ate nuts in the afternoon and then were not hungry enough to finish dinner in the early evening. That's a great thing to measure, to use that word in a slightly unusual way. You are evaluating that you ate nuts in the afternoon and then ended up with a lighter dinner. The next thing to measure is what to do the next day about this. Eating a bigger breakfast (and saving what you cannot finish for later) will be a good start. Noting what happens tomorrow afternoon will also be great. What prompts the search for nuts? If it's true hunger, that's a great measurement to take. Eat a mini-meal featuring protein, fat, and veggies. If this results in a lighter dinner, that's another great measurement you're taking. Everything you do gives you information you can use the next day. This is the kind of measuring Whole30 asks you to do. Measure your own feelings of satiety. This does involve trusting your body, and most women have ingrained in us that we should never under any circumstances trust our bodies (because that food scale or diet program or magazine article knows better), but it's worth it to make the journey to trusting what our bodies tell us about our true needs for food. It's health-giving and empowering all in one.

[lcs75]

Hi Amy,

 

thank you for your patience and explanations I was very very tempted to get the scales out today and already had my calorie app installed again - but after reading your post, I deleted it and things make a lot more sense

 

 

Measuring my body responses sounds so right! Breakfast has always been easy for me, I am an early riser and generally hungry first thing - something I have been supressing to "eat less" but I do enjoy it and feel fine eating a big meal early in the day. I have also noticed that when my lunch is too small I over-eat at night - raiding the cupboards for anything. Today I just feel stuffed, I am still feeling uncomfortable and ate dinner without being hungry. I think finding the right balance will take time. I just have to make sure I have some mini meals at hand if I get it wrong. And perhaps I should just put the left-overs from the big lunch into the fridge for the afternoon - just in case. I have read before, that when the food loses its taste, it is time to stop - is that right? Sometimes that only takes me a few bites. And what do I do, like today, when I am still full from breakfast, do I have a light lunch? I was worried I get too hungry at night if I do that and I could not shift my lunch break.

 

Thanks again and I have posted my meals, if you want to have a look

 

 

 

Measuring my feelings is probably tougher, I am trying to notice patterns and thinking about, what that response does to me and to the feeling at the time.