sharkladyangie Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I was looking for a sugar-free bacon when I came across some Gwaltney bacon products. None of them lists sugar as an ingredient and there are no sugars listed in the nutrition label. But there was an ingredient that I wasn't familiar with and that was not listed on the cheat sheet in either the can-have or cannot-have sections, so I "googled" it. Sodium erythorbate is (according to Wikipedia) "...produced from sugars derived from different sources, such as beets, sugar cane, and corn." I just wanted to pass that along to others so they wouldn't get excited and have their hopes dashed :-) Thanks!! Angie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators ultrarunnergirl Posted May 13, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 13, 2015 ANOTHER stealthy sugar! Good detective work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucieB Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Wait, the text says it's "produced from sugar", doesn't say that it is a sugar. It doesn't have the same chemical structure as a carbohydrate. It's the stereo-isomer of Vitamin C, and we don't consider that a sugar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkladyangie Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 So does that mean we can eat bacon with sodium erythorbate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tom Denham Posted May 13, 2015 Moderators Share Posted May 13, 2015 I am going to make an executive decision here and say yes you can eat bacon that includes sodium erythorbate, but you should not. It is basically a preservative with some similarities to ascorbic acid or vitamin C. However, some people are sensitive to it and it may cause problems similar to those caused by sulphites. See http://www.livestrong.com/article/340989-sodium-erythorbate-side-effects/. The problems with sulphites are so pervasive and well documented that anything including them are banned during a Whole30. The evidence against sodium erythorbate is mixed enough that banning it is probably too cautious. But hear me people! This is not an endorsement. I will not eat bacon with this particular preservative and you should not either. However, you are an adult. If you want to take chances with your health and the quality of your Whole30 experience, you can eat this ingredient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastastical Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 To start off - I am not new to Whole30, just to the forums. We've been having a bit of a discussion in a group I help admin on Facebook about Sodium Erythorbate in bacon. One of our members wrote to the Whole30 page through Facebook asking:"Is it compliant to eat a strip of bacon with sodium erythorbate as an ingredient?" - Member Question She got a response back (does not specify from whom) and I must say, my admin team and I are all fairly shocked at the response. We have always said that LOW quality bacon containing things like Sodium Erythorbate should NOT be used as a protein source in the plate, but rather, a garnish on things like salads, as the fats contain so much garbage that it would be unwise to eat a large helping of it."Yes, it is compliant. The fewer additives you can find in your bacon, however, the better. You can eat bacon; it doesn't need to be a garnish. That is not correct information." - Whole30 Response The question is: Is this true? Can low quality bacon be used to eat as a protein source? Are people allowed to eat large portions of it? We've always encouraged our members to seek high quality bacon if they plan to eat more than one strip. I have attached said members' screenshots for review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkor Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Bacon is a fat source, not a protein source. So even bacon with sodium erythrobate (the presence of which does not automatically make it "low quality bacon") would not be eaten in large quantities, per the template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastastical Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 @kirkor Bacon is listed under protein sources on the official shopping list, not under fats. It was not intended for a SOLE protein source (as it is more fat than protein, even in high quality bacon), but that is not related to my question. Also - I have already read the bacon manifesto, and I already believe low quality bacon is to be used more like a condiment (in case anyone wanted to redirect me there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkor Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Mods have clarified on the forum that bacon is a fat: https://www.google.com/search?q="bacon+is+a+fat"+site:forum.whole30.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmie Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 So I have a question on this... and this is directed at The Whole30 Forum moderators (no offense to kirkor) as I would like them to respond to this ... I am very familiar with Whole30 and the fat sources and protein sources and what we are hearing here from you is that bacon is not a protein source -- this is the first time we have heard this in at least 3 years. It also contradicts what the grocery shopping list tells us. If you look at the shopping list PDF from Whole30, it lists bacon as a protein source. What we have been told in the past is that bacon is not to be used as the only protein Source but it should be paired with another protein Source such as eggs. Bacon would also come under a fat source under the umbrella of animal fats. So are you saying here that the grocery shopping list which shows bacon as a protein source, and a document that millions of people use as a reference, is wrong? And as long as I'm bombarding with questions LOL, how does Whole30 suggest we determine what is a high-quality bacon and what is a low-quality bacon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkor Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 I'm not a mod so I'm just going by what I've seen on the forum. I do think that the shopping list could use some clarification. re: low quality vs. high quality bacon, I think that's more about who's making it than what's in it. Some places are using celery powder or whatever because they know people are sensitive to the nitrate/nitrite label, but chemically it's the same thing. No matter what we're still talking about a cured meat that's cooked at high temperatures --- it's never going to be the ideal food (even though it's delicious and I love it) p.s. hello fellow San Diegan! (although I'm working out of town at the moment) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellybelly Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 37 minutes ago, kirkor said: Mods have clarified on the forum that bacon is a fat: https://www.google.com/search?q="bacon+is+a+fat"+site:forum.whole30.com that is from a memeber not a moderator. take it with a grain of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkor Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 7 minutes ago, kellybelly said: that is from a memeber not a moderator. take it with a grain of salt. The first post is, but not others, which is why I linked to a full google search and not an individual thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellybelly Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 @kirkor i still dont see any mod saying bacon is a fat. please show me where a mod specifically says that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators SugarcubeOD Posted January 6, 2017 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2017 Maybe it would help to think about the template... how much bacon would you need to eat to even get 1 palm sized (lengthxwidthxthickness) of bacon as a sole protein... that would be a LOT. Maybe bacon is on the grocery list under protein because it's a meat product? I can ask headquarters and see if we can get an answer but the truth remains that bacon is more fat than protein... that said, if you want to eat stacks and stacks of bacon as your protein, you're welcome to do so... its not going to be a recommendation of ours that it's the best way to go, but as long as the ingredients are compliant, you can eat as much as you want. As far as 'high' vs 'low' quality bacon, you're going to be doing some research. Bacon from a farm with properly raised animals, manufactured with high quality ingredients is going to be higher qualtiy and also probably higher priced. A pack of $2.99 bacon from your local grocery store is probably not going to be as high quality, is likely made with conventionally raised animals, probably has more preservatives in it etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkor Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 How about 3? ladyshanny http://forum.whole30.com/topic/35280-day-15-stomach-hurts-and-never-feel-full-help/#comment-380802 ShannonM816 http://forum.whole30.com/topic/36890-day-2-snacking/#comment-394211 jmcbn http://forum.whole30.com/topic/36127-day-22-and-not-feeling-well/#comment-387831 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simmie Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 @SugarcubeOD -- thank you for that information on low vs. High quality bacon. That's pretty much the criteria I use, that if it's not costing you a whole lot, then it's probably Factory farmed. On the issue of whether it's a protein or not, I see your point. I can't recall which moderator told us this and it might have been Tom but we were told at one point that if you are using bacon as a protein Source, it should not be the sole source and that it should be paired with another healthier protein source. So that all ties in to what you said. I would be interested to hear of any clarifications from headquarters on the protein issue. Thanks for weighing in on this, we appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellybelly Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 5 minutes ago, SugarcubeOD said: Maybe it would help to think about the template... how much bacon would you need to eat to even get 1 palm sized (lengthxwidthxthickness) of bacon as a sole protein... that would be a LOT. Maybe bacon is on the grocery list under protein because it's a meat product? I can ask headquarters and see if we can get an answer but the truth remains that bacon is more fat than protein... that said, if you want to eat stacks and stacks of bacon as your protein, you're welcome to do so... its not going to be a recommendation of ours that it's the best way to go, but as long as the ingredients are compliant, you can eat as much as you want. As far as 'high' vs 'low' quality bacon, you're going to be doing some research. Bacon from a farm with properly raised animals, manufactured with high quality ingredients is going to be higher qualtiy and also probably higher priced. A pack of $2.99 bacon from your local grocery store is probably not going to be as high quality, is likely made with conventionally raised animals, probably has more preservatives in it etc.. I get that bacon is mostly fat, but since when was it considered a fat. Thats just bad news. Now instead of people eating healthy fats like avocado and such they are gonna say....well the mods say its a fat so thats what im gonna use it for. wow just wow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtFossil Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 People are adults and can eat whatever they wish, and as the mods have stated, one could make very poor nutritional choices and still rechnically do a Whole30. The reason I bring this up is that the one will get the best results by making the most nutritious choices one can, weighing all ones circumstances, including location and food availability and budget and overall health as well as one's own quirks and preferences. The mods have made it clear, to me at least, that bacon is PRIMARILY a fat source. It's also a protein, albeit a poor one, just as nuts aren't the highest quality fat source. Call it primarily a fat, call it a protein, call it a condiment or meal accessory--what difference does it make? We make our own choices. You could do a Whole30 eating nothing but bacon and nuts and potatoes . . . . I'm one of those who never bothered with bacon on her Whole30, as it simply wasn't worth my time or my money to try to find "compliant" bacon when I knew I could make more nutritional choices for me. A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastastical Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 Thank you all. We just want the absolute most recent information, as our group follows both rules and recommendations, so when we saw the response from the Whole30 facebook we were just a little shocked. Sounds like we are correct on our thoughts that it should still be limited, especially if it is low quality. It is not to say anyone should go eat an outrageous chunk of bacon, because as you said, @SugarcubeOD, it would take quite a bit to make up a whole serving... though I do believe high quality bacon, when paired with a separate protein source, would be safe (i.e. 2 slices of high quality bacon with 2-3 eggs or 6oz of beef/chicken/fish). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators SugarcubeOD Posted January 6, 2017 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2017 What is the difference between a person using it for a fat or a protein in so far as how it's going to remove other healthy fats? We do say that animal fats should be the highest quality you can afford/find and that conventionally raised animals store their toxins in fat, so it's not recommended to eat cheap (low quality) bacon... Why is this bad news.... if the pig was properly raised and the manufacturing process is high quality, then if someone chooses bacon over avocado for breakfast one day, that's okay. I guess I"m not really understanding the 'wow just wow' about the fact that bacon is mostly fat and therefore considered fat on the program... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators SugarcubeOD Posted January 6, 2017 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2017 Yes @Chastastical you're dead on... pairing a few slices of bacon with other protein is fine... it would give you a hit of your fat needs in a meal like that altho depending on how much you eat/how fatty, it might also need to be paired with another fat. Basically bacon is not a food that we recommend that you rely on for protein but it's just another food item... I personally can't stand bacon or the crazy 'bacon is lyfe' memes out there... it's just another food.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chastastical Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 @ArtFossil I don't recall using bacon for any of my Whole30s either. I wasn't interested in paying $6.99-$14.99 for a pound of compliant bacon. No thank you lol. It's possible I did it but I completed all of mine between 2013-2015. I have remained Paleo + following the Whole30 template with very few exceptions (i.e. I don't worry when I visit family or friends or if I eat out, and I occasionally have some dairy or legumes since those do not bother me, though everything else absolutely does). @SugarcubeOD "...if someone chooses bacon over avocado for breakfast one day, that's okay. " Is that an official ruling from Melissa? If so, boy is that going to stir some pots... people will be using bacon for their fat source (and likely low quality bacon at that) and I feel like that's a pretty bad can of worms right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtFossil Posted January 6, 2017 Share Posted January 6, 2017 2 minutes ago, Chastastical said: "...if someone chooses bacon over avocado for breakfast one day, that's okay. " Is that an official ruling from Melissa? If so, boy is that going to stir some pots... people will be using bacon for their fat source (and likely low quality bacon at that) and I feel like that's a pretty bad can of worms right there. I don't worry about what choices "people" make on their Whole30. I just focus on making the best choices I can for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators SugarcubeOD Posted January 6, 2017 Moderators Share Posted January 6, 2017 9 minutes ago, Chastastical said: @ArtFossil I don't recall using bacon for any of my Whole30s either. I wasn't interested in paying $6.99-$14.99 for a pound of compliant bacon. No thank you lol. It's possible I did it but I completed all of mine between 2013-2015. I have remained Paleo + following the Whole30 template with very few exceptions (i.e. I don't worry when I visit family or friends or if I eat out, and I occasionally have some dairy or legumes since those do not bother me, though everything else absolutely does). @SugarcubeOD "...if someone chooses bacon over avocado for breakfast one day, that's okay. " Is that an official ruling from Melissa? If so, boy is that going to stir some pots... people will be using bacon for their fat source (and likely low quality bacon at that) and I feel like that's a pretty bad can of worms right there. I"m not entirely sure any of us have ever asked Melissa if she's okay with someone eating bacon over avocado for breakfast one day... I just reread the bacon manifesto and it's basically saying exactly what I"m saying... It's not to be used as a dense protein source, it's more fat than protein and should you find a high quality bacon that is compliant and you choose to eat it occassionally, then go for it... that's not a green light to eat bacon at every meal to the exclusion of all other fats and it's specifically called out as not something to even eat on the regular, but why is this stirring pots? Bacon has always been acceptable on the Whole30... it actually stands to reason that the fact we're saying it's a fat, don't eat a protein's portion full of it is a better outcome than 'yes it is considered a protein'. OR are you thinking Bacon should be ruled out entirely? http://whole9life.com/2012/03/bacon/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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