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Lexical

Going shopping soon- can I have these three things?

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I have read the diet guide, but not sure of these...

 

1. Roasted, salted cashews? (like to put them in veggie stirfry and in salads and soups)

 

2. Mushrooms (various types)? It says vegetables, but mushrooms aren't vegetables, they're a fungus (Kingdom Fungi versus Kingdom Plantae

 

3. Royal Jelly (made by bees, NOT a sweetener, does not contain honey, very bitter, touted by the Chinese for many health benefits). More info in link provided:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_jelly

 

I plan to start whole 30 tomorrow (Thursday) and am going grocery shopping in a few hours. 

 

One last thing, a type of tinned herring I purchased lists sugar as the last ingredient, but when I looked the at the dietary information there are 0 grams of sugar for a whole can (over 100 grams). I think there are sugar traces in the place where the herring is packaged so legally they have to list it. Is that in or out (it certainly doesn't taste sweet and 100 grams has "0 grams")... Money is tight and I was relying on this tinned herring for whole30. The same herring brand has other tinned herring where sugar isn't listed at all (the lemon and cracked black pepper tinned herring is the one that contains the sugar mention, even though the nutritional information lists the carbs and sugar grams, both, as zero). 

 

 

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Oh yeah, the dietary guide also says some fruit is okay- would seedless watermelon (for a snack) be okay? Thanks. Is there a rule to what fruit is allowed or how it has to be eaten. How much is "some" fruit. A few berries a day? 1 serving? 2-3 servings? 1 serving a week? Etc... 

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Cashews: check the oil that they are roasted in.  Peanut, soybean, canola etc would be out. Dry roasted is where it's at.

Mushrooms: yes

Sugar in Herring: No.  The ingredients list reigns supreme.  Based on the rounding that manufacturers are allowed to do, they can state 0g even if they added sugar depending on how much.  As far as Whole30 is concerned, any added sugar at all makes the item non compliant.

Watermelon and fruit servings: yes to watermelon.  Fruit is optional, not required.  If you do choose to eat fruit the amount recommended is 1-2 fist sized servings per day, with meals, never on its own.

Royal Jelly: I'll go ahead and say no due to the sugar but may revoke my answer if another mod says yes.  It typically contains about 60% to 70% water, 12% to 15% proteins, 10% to 16% sugar, 3% to 6% fats, and 2% to 3% vitamins, salts, and amino acids

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You do not want to plan to snack. Aim to make your meals large enough to carry you to the next. If you do get hungry before your next meal, have a mini-meal of

protein and veggies rather than fruit.

 

Fruit should only accompany your meals, and not take the place of your veggies.

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One last thing- is coconut milk for cooking allowed? How about coconut "meat"? Are unsweetened raisins in salads allowed?

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One last thing- is coconut milk for cooking allowed? How about coconut "meat"? Are unsweetened raisins in salads allowed?

 

Yes yes and yes.  :) 

You might want to read these items before starting your Whole30.

Program rules

Can I Have Guide

Shopping list.

 

Also, most questions have been asked and answered previously on the forum. Easiest way to search the forum is from Google. Type Whole30 followed by whatever you're looking for, and you'll get links to past discussion threads.

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One last thing- is coconut milk for cooking allowed? How about coconut "meat"? Are unsweetened raisins in salads allowed?

Check the ingredients on raisins, they are notoriously hard to find without noncompliant oils having been added to them.  Since you are in BC, check Sunrype brand, I buy those because they are the only compliant ones I can find.

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Sorry, getting a bit compulsive now... are these oils okay?

 

Olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil and/or sesame oil? (I am writing all this info down in a little book I plan to carry everywhere with me)?

 

Would stewed apples, rhubarb and cinnamon and a side snack of fish be okay in the morning for breakfast? 

 

I really don't want to mess this up, plan to start tomorrow (eating the last of my icecream right now) 

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Sorry, getting a bit compulsive now... are these oils okay?

 

Olive oil, avocado oil, coconut oil and/or sesame oil? (I am writing all this info down in a little book I plan to carry everywhere with me)?

 

Would stewed apples, rhubarb and cinnamon and a side snack of fish be okay in the morning for breakfast? 

 

I really don't want to mess this up, plan to start tomorrow (eating the last of my icecream right now) 

Read the links that Chris provided.  It's important that you understand the program and reading the material rather than just throwing questions out there is going to give you a better understanding.

 

Breakfast (and every other meal) should contain protein, vegetables and fat.  Then and only after you have eaten a proper template amount (link to template in my signature) should you include fruit.

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I read the program rules/guide before, several times now, but am getting all OCD. i think I know where I can find sunrype raisins. I will read the ingredients- basically, I want nothing in them except "raisins", right? 

 

I know we are allowed snap peas, etc... no legumes or beans. How do raw almonds factor into that- like almond butter (unsweetened) with no other ingredients, say, on celery sticks? 

 

Peanuts are out... but are other nuts in (if raw and/or dry roasted or roasted in compliant oils) such as walnuts, pistachios, almonds, brazil nuts, filberts? What about sunflower seeds, chia seeds, pumpkin seeds? 

 

Is plantain allowed to be eaten on this diet? I know root vegetables are, but I don't think it is a root vegetable- it may be too starchy? 

 

Like I said, I have gone through the rules. What confuses me is no sweeteners are allowed, but fruit is allowed- and fruit contains fructose, a sweetener- fruit is known to spike blood sugar way up for some people, while stevia in leaf form doesn't raise blood sugar at all. Things like that confuse me. Which is why I am all OCD now. ;) 

 

If fruit is allowed and raisins- would non-sweetened prunes (for those with... ahem... digestive issues) be allowed- if no non-compliant oils or sweeteners are used? 

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First, "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD)" is a serious and crippling mental illness and not one that you "get" from being overwhelmed by reading a program.

 

The program is actually fairly simple.

 

DO NOT EAT: dairy, legumes, grains, sugar, alcohol

EAT: all meats, eggs, seafood, vegetables (exception corn and peas), fruit and fats that come from animals or healthy plant sources (avocado, coconut, olive).  Nuts are fine in moderation.

If a product contains or is made from an item that is non compliant then the resulting finished product is not compliant (eg, soybean oil).

 

Added sweeteners are not permitted.  Fruit contains naturally occurring sugar.  No one added it.  Further, the sugars in fruits are bound to vitamins, minerals and fibre.  It seems unlikely that you would need to eat a stevia leaf so I won't debate that one.  Adding stevia (a highly processed product) to something would make it non compliant.

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The difference is that fruit is something you can pick off a tree and eat; it's naturally sweet all on its own and has nutrients. Stevia is something you add to something to make it sweet, and has no nutrients. The recommendations with fruit are not to let it push vegetables off your plate (because vegetables are more nutrient-dense with less sugar), and always eat it with a meal, never as a snack on its own, for the very reason you mentioned.

 

It sounds like you understand the basics and are overanalyzing things. Might be time to just jump in and give it a shot!

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Okay, well, I have OCD. I was diagnosed with it by a shrink. I realize that you don't "get it" from reading a list of ingredients.

 

Also, stevia in raw leaf form is not highjly processed, which is what I said before. I grow my own stevia, as plants, and eat the leaves- I asked about this specifically and was told no. How is a plant I grow in my own garden "processed"?

 

If I pick a leaf of a plant and eat it, how is THAT processed? 

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I put *stevia leaves* from a stevia plant I grow myself which is non GMO, which I grow in organic soil with compost I make myself using my own red wriggler worms... I put the leaves in salad, in with stewed apples and in tea.\

 

Which is why I specifically asked about RAW stevia in plant/leaf form from a GARDEN. I am not talking about truvia, or something you buy at the store... I am talking about a leaf I pick myself growing out of a plant I grew myself coming out of the earth.

 

Which is why I specifically asked about it and said that. 

 

Which is partially why my OCD is flaring up. I realize "artificial sweeteners" aren't allowed- but leaves are not artificial. 

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OK, I apologize. I am highly sensitive to people throwing around serious medical terms as buzzwords.  That's how it appeared to me but obviously it was not intended that way.  

 

If you want to go and eat the stevia leaves directly out of your yard then my personal opinion would be that this would be no different than eating sorrel or spinach or an apple off a tree.  Generally the only reason that people eat stevia is because it's sweet or because they can add it to something to make that thing sweet where it normally would not be.  

 

I guess I would ask myself the question about why I wanted to eat stevia leaves so badly. Maybe they make a nice addition to salad greens, I don't know?  Do remember though that it's only 30 days and if you come across things that are suspect, it's not that difficult to leave them off for the 30 days.

 

EDIT:  given that you are adding them to stewed apples and tea, presumably to increase sweetness, I would say no, definitely not.  Throwing them into a salad though, I can't see why not.  And of course if the "salad fixings" answer goes against the Whole30 official ruling then just leave them out for 30 days.

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I am sensitive to it too. i take medication and have panic disorder and also PTSD but the OCD makes the other two worse. I barely sleep and my life is severely limited it. Stuff like this where there isn't an itemized list makes me a little bit crazy. 

 

And yes, I agree, eating raw stevia leaves is like spinach or sorrel. I eat it because it is highly alkaline for the body and very nutritious (in leaf form). I don\t care really about the sweet factor. Don't get me wrong, I like sweets, but that is not why I eat stevia leaves, as they have an aftertaste I could do without, but they are supposed to (as far as greens go) have a bunch of health benefits.

 

I understand about not adding some stevia powder made in a lab, but to me that it no more real stevia than white sugar is eating the sugar cane plant. In the whole plant, there are lots of vitamins and nutrients that are lost when it is processed in a lab. (Sort of like how the vitamins in potatoes are destroyed when they are deep-fried and made into chips).

 

Thanks again. Sorry if I got too frustrated. 

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Stuff like this where there isn't an itemized list makes me a little bit crazy. 

 

Perhaps making yourself a reverse list might work better for you.  The list of things you cannot have is much shorter than the list of things on earth that you could have.  If the item falls into any of the "no" categories then you don't eat it.  Would that work better for you?

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Maybe- I have made 4 or 5 lists already and keep throwing them away. Stevia is unique as a plant because most people think of it as a sweetener and not a vegetable leaf but now I think I will be okay. 

 

When I describe what I am eating I will write it as "leafy greens" so I don't have to go through this again. ;) 

 

For oils I think avocado, coconut, flax, sesame are okay, right? (I know peanut, canola, vegetables, etc are out) How is the oil decided? By the length of the fatty acids? 

 

Time to go shopping. Have a nice day and thank you for your help! 

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Hi Lexical,

 

I am glad to see that you are giving a whole 30 some serious and thorough thought.

 

I understand how you can get caught up in some of the grey areas of the plan.

 

Please note that raw sugar cane - also in plant form - is not allowed. So drawing from this conclusion - stevia would also not be allowed.  (Personally I tried raw sugar cane once - and it came off more bitter than sweet - but whatever - rules are rules)

 

We can argue this until we are blue in the face and still we will not be any further ahead.  Personally I would leave the Stevia leaf out for 30 days.  The fact that it is a highly argued subject for you only tells me that you are maybe more attached to it than you think you are, and maybe worth evaluating on why.

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I will leave the stevia leaf out for 30 days, but the difference between raw sugar cane and stevia is that sugar cane actually *is* a sugar and elevates blood glucose levels (not safe for diabetics, for instance). Stevia is not seen by the body as a sugar. It does not elevate blood sugar levels. It is not metabolized by the body as a "sugar". It's sweet taste is an illusion of sorts.

 

But to be safe I will leave it out, even though it is not a sugar and is metabolized much the same way any other green leaf would be. 

 

I think on whole30 some foods are not allowed, not because of what they are physically and how they are metabolized by the body, but because of how most people tend to think of them. So even if something is not technically a sugar and doesn't impact the body like a sugar, it is out if most people "believe" it's a sugar.

 

That's a new, weird way for me to think and sort of goes against the grain of my personality, but I will try it. I am curious about this. Also, usually I am a vegetarian but in order to do this I will be consuming oysters, clams, mussels and no-antibiotics-added eggs from local farmers (not just "free range, which can mean almost anything- I want eggs chickens that are out in the sun, eating insects and nesting and plan to ask lots of questions about the eggs and look them up online and see images/photos of the farm). 

 

I don't like to eat animal products for ethical reasons, but the way I worked that one out was by eating the least "evolved" I can think of (invertebrates)- and I want to see if this helps some health conditions I have. Also, every day for 30 days I will do something nice for non-human animals in order to balance my karma out, such as feeding wild birds seed, feeding crows zophobas morio larvae I grow myself, things of that nature. I am not sure if karma works like that, but I figure it is about as conscientious as I can be. 

 

If it turns out I need to live like this, I will grow my own Zophobas morio larvae (they have brains like pinpricks) and eat them so I am ethically consistent.

 

Now I have to go shopping. I might have to eat fish, too, we'll see. Tuna is on sale for 88 cents a tin, which is dirt cheap where I live. 

 

Wish me luck at the grocery store! 

 

Bye for now! 

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