Day 27 and still so dehydrated

[FlyingCrow]

It's day 27 and I am still so very very thirsty. In fact it seems impossible to stay hydrated unless I drink pretty much constantly. I have to drink during the night or I get so dehydrated I can't sleep. My mouth feels dry about half an hour after the last glass of water and this has been going on for nearly three weeks now.

 

Before beginning my Whole30 I drank around 2ltires of fluid a day in the form of water and herbal teas and odd cups of roast chicory drink, I always felt hydrated and never needed to drink during the night.

 

Now I don't measure most of the time but last night I drank .75 of a litre between 6.45 and 9.00pm and still didn't feel entirely like I'd had enough. I had to get up twice during the night to go to the loo and again for a drink. So my sleep is suffering because of this too.

 

I feel pretty fed up now, I can tell you! I can't wait for day 30 to be over. I was eating Primal before this and had no problems with hydration.

 

This is what I ate yesterday:

 

M1 2 fried eggs, handful of precooked mince beef, sweet potato hash, half an avocado

m2 2 compliant salmon patties, roast fennel and broccoli and homemade mayo

m3 king prawns, sugar snap peas, courgette, carrots, red pepper stirfry with sunshine sauce

 

today I've had salmon patties, fried egg, sweet potato hash, sauerkraut and mayo

 

M2 will be pork burger with an egg on, beetroot salad and something I haven't thought of yet, prob snap peas

M3 venison stew with celeriac, carrots and small portion of white potato, roast broccoli

 

I salt when I cook and usually add some to eat.

 

so far this morning I have drunk a litre of fluid and it is only 10.15am.

 

Any suggestions?

[Loulabelle]

Have you had a urine glucose test done? Constant thirst and needing to pee are symptoms of diabetes. 

[FlyingCrow]

Thanks for that, Loulabelle - I actually think its unlikely to be diabetes for a number of reasons - i gave up refined sugars two years ago, due to migraines and before that i ate little sugar. I've been mostly Paleo for five years, am not over weight and never have been as an adult. In fact I did an online test for diabetes markers when it started, and my score was so low I was in the unlikely to develop it group.

I didn't say I constantly have to pee - I don't, but if I drink nearly a litre of water before going to bed, then I have to get up - this has been true for me as long as I remember!

I do have ME which can contribute to having to get up in the night - I always need to get up once, but twice is a bit much.

Isn't the Whole30 supposed to help diabetes, anyway?

the thirst has coincided with the change of diet, i.e. greatly increased amount of animal protein, and I have noticed other complaining of excessive thirst too. Obviously if it continues after I return to a primal diet, which is what I intend to do, then I will get checked out, but I would welcome any other insight, because frankly I am ready to quit.

[jmcbn]

Could you be salting *too* much?

 

I salt when I cook, but don't add more when I eat...

[Loulabelle]

Could it be worth getting tested anyway since it is a simple non-invasive test? Just to rule it out since Type 1 is not dependent upon diet or sugar intake. Then you can focus 100% on whether what you are eating is contributing to your thirst. 

[FlyingCrow]

Could you be salting *too* much?

 

I salt when I cook, but don't add more when I eat...

Maybe I am, I'll try reducing it

[FlyingCrow]

Could it be worth getting tested anyway since it is a simple non-invasive test? Just to rule it out since Type 1 is not dependent upon diet or sugar intake. Then you can focus 100% on whether what you are eating is contributing to your thirst.

The test is simple, but getting to the doctors from where I live to get it sorted is most definitely not! If i seriously though there was anything seriously wrong I would of course make the horribly complex journey to see my GP- but I really don't. I'm noting and appreciating your concern and advice but you know Occam's Razor? All things being equal the simplest explanation is usually the right one. I got thirsty when I changed my diet, ergo it's most likely to be the dietary change which causes the thirst.

And just as I have no other markers for type 2, I don't have any other symptoms for type 1 either

[Tom Denham]

There is nothing about the food you are eating on the Whole30 that would explain the development of excessive thirst. Honestly, eating meat and veggies does not make the body crave more water than eating beans and bread. So my question is what else may be going on. 

 

My mother who is diabetic constantly worries that I will become diabetic, so I understand shrugging off that possibility. However, my wife the veterinarian tells me that excessive drinking is a strong warning that a dog or cat has developed diabetes. But maybe something else is going on. 

 

Your meal report sounds good, but are you eating enough food? Sometimes we suggest to people they are thirsty and not hungry, so they should drink some water. Maybe with you the issue is you are not really thirsty, but hungry. I am reaching for possibilities.

 

Is your environment warmer? Have you taken up hot yoga? 

[FlyingCrow]

Thanks Tom, yes I'm getting enough food. My activity levels are less than most people's due to chronic illness, and I only get hungry about half an hour before eating the next meal. It took some tweaking but I easily go 4-5 hours between meals.

I have seen at least two threads mention feeling very thirst whilst eating this way - of course I can't find the threads now!

The first thing my husband said to me when I mentioned it to him, was that it was likely the level of animal protein - and even though I ate primal before I am now eating a lot more meat than I was. I'm hearing that Diabetes is a possibility but again I want to point out that this diet is supposed to be helpful to Diabetes and given that I have no other risk factors at all it seems unlikely. I certainly had no signs of insulin resistance.

The thing I most want to do is have a meal free from eggs meat or fish and see how I am after that. Since I am sick to back teeth of eggs meat and fish that is a very inviting option at the moment!

Either way, the earliest I can see a Doctor is Monday anyway.

[FlyingCrow]

I finally found the thread - seems I am not alone, which feels reassuring! I bumped the thread, for reference.

[jmcbn]

 I want to point out that this diet is supposed to be helpful to Diabetes and given that I have no other risk factors at all it seems unlikely. I certainly had no signs of insulin resistance.

 

Whole30 is helpful to type2 Diabetes for sure, but type1 requires treatment with insulin.

Symptoms according to the NHS website are:

 

• feeling very thirsty
• urinating more frequently than usual, particularly at night
• feeling very tired
• weight loss and loss of muscle bulk
• itchiness around the genital area, or regular bouts of thrush (a yeast infection)
• blurred vision caused by the lens of your eye changing shape
• slow healing of cuts and grazes

I am by no means a medical expert, and I'm not saying this is what you have, I'm just pointing out that they are two entirely different conditions. 

If you are concerned enough to bring the subject up then I'd make that appointment for Monday, if only to ease your mind. Stress is not good for anyone.

[Guest Andria]

As you found by searching the forum, what you are experiencing is not uncommon for some people during their Whole 30.  The Whole30 diet is not intended to be a low carb diet per se, but it definitely is lower in carbohydrate content than the diets most people are coming from.  Your body stores glucose as glycogen with water (and potassium) in a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio and when you eliminate much of the fast starchy carbs (breads, pasta, other grains) your body will tap into it's glycogen stores for energy.  As you use up your stored glycogen your body will lose 2-3 water molecules per molecule of glycogen (roughly), thus making you more thirsty to make up for that loss.  The intensity and duration will vary for people and likely is dependent upon your previous diet and how much carbohydrate you were consuming.  

 

On the Whole30 you can inadvertently go very low carb and possibly enter ketosis which would amplify your thirst levels.  Your meals look good, but consider upping starchy carbs to your meal three to help you hold onto water overnight.  Also, adding a little sea salt (not enough to taste) to your water can help with water retention and thirst levels. Be sure to get plenty of potassium rich foods on a daily basis, as well (beets, potato, winter squash, avocado).

 

You have referred the the *amount of animal protein* you are eating as if it is a lot or excessive? or is it just that it is more than what you were consuming previously? There is nothing excessive about eating a palm size (up to 2 ,if active) of protein 3 times daily.  If you were eating primally before, but not eating as much protein, what were you eating place of protein?

[FlyingCrow]

Whole30 is helpful to type2 Diabetes for sure, but type1 requires treatment with insulin.

Symptoms according to the NHS website are:

 

• feeling very thirsty
• urinating more frequently than usual, particularly at night
• feeling very tired
• weight loss and loss of muscle bulk
• itchiness around the genital area, or regular bouts of thrush (a yeast infection)
• blurred vision caused by the lens of your eye changing shape
• slow healing of cuts and grazes

I am by no means a medical expert, and I'm not saying this is what you have, I'm just pointing out that they are two entirely different conditions. 

If you are concerned enough to bring the subject up then I'd make that appointment for Monday, if only to ease your mind. Stress is not good for anyone.

Yes I'm familiar with the symptoms thanks!

It is others who are concerned, I am not. I'm just fed up.

[FlyingCrow]

As you found by searching the forum, what you are experiencing is not uncommon for some people during their Whole 30. The Whole30 diet is not intended to be a low carb diet per se, but it definitely is lower in carbohydrate content than the diets most people are coming from. Your body stores glucose as glycogen with water (and potassium) in a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio and when you eliminate much of the fast starchy carbs (breads, pasta, other grains) your body will tap into it's glycogen stores for energy. As you use up your stored glycogen your body will lose 2-3 water molecules per molecule of glycogen (roughly), thus making you more thirsty to make up for that loss. The intensity and duration will vary for people and likely is dependent upon your previous diet and how much carbohydrate you were consuming.

On the Whole30 you can inadvertently go very low carb and possibly enter ketosis which would amplify your thirst levels. Your meals look good, but consider upping starchy carbs to your meal three to help you hold onto water overnight. Also, adding a little sea salt (not enough to taste) to your water can help with water retention and thirst levels. Be sure to get plenty of potassium rich foods on a daily basis, as well (beets, potato, winter squash, avocado).

You have referred the the *amount of animal protein* you are eating as if it is a lot or excessive? or is it just that it is more than what you were consuming previously? There is nothing excessive about eating a palm size (up to 2 ,if active) of protein 3 times daily. If you were eating primally before, but not eating as much protein, what were you eating place of protein?

Thank you Andria, for explaining that, which seems more likely. I did not say, but I was only eating Primal this time around for about two months, prior to that I had spent the last eight months eating grains again. (I was eating primal for a long time before this). So yes, although I had given up grains before, it wasn't for very long really.

I don't think it's excessive protein, just more than I am used to, I am no longer eating any hard cheese, (which was a protein for me, though usually with eggs) Or nuts for that matter - I'm so sated I don't want them.

Winter squash are out of season, but I now eat more starchy veg than I did before anyway - I eat more veg all round, and I think I've gained weight. I certainly haven't lost, anyway! I'll try adding more in to those meals which are sometimes without in the evening.

My energy output is rather lower than many people's due to chronic illness. I have been housebound since Feb. so my appetite is correspondingly less. I guess I snacked more before, ate half a can of tuna instead of a whole one, everything was simply smaller portions. I ate quite a lot of fruit too, and always between meals - I guess I was more of a grazer than I realised.

[ladyshanny]

How much water are you actually consuming in a day?  What may seem excessive to you based on your historical average may actually be fully normal.  

 

2 litres of water is really only a sufficient amount if you are around 120 pounds (54kg).  Our recommendation is half an ounce per pound of bodyweight.  Instead of pounding a litre of water at bedtime, can you try and concentrate your fluids to the daylight hours?  It is also possible that now that your body has released any retained water due to inflammation that it is trying to find its new normal.

 

Is having a dry mouth and thirst your only sign of dehydration? Is it possible that you are not actually dehydrated but rather have dry mouth? What color is your urine? Were you a gum chewer previously? On any medication that has dry mouth as a symptom?

[JaneBerkin]

Hi FlyingCrow - beautiful painting as your image by the way -- i feel very similar to you in that I'm unaccustomed to eating three square meals (i'm much more of a grazer); the quantity is also quite more than I'm used to; I'm not used to so much meat; and I'm also ridiculously thirsty. 

 

I had been thinking that maybe I've actually always been "thirsty," but since I grazed throughout the day, i didn't notice and/or had misperceived thirst as needing a small snack for blood sugar or energy or hunger. That, in combination with the fact that I've never paid such close attention to what I'm consuming, and more specifically, to my body's reactions and physical state as the day goes by, could it be that you're simply more attuned to the need for hydration than before because you're not snacking, and you're also more aware of your body in general? *** this is not meant to be dismissive of your legitimate, real thirst, that's just what I've been assuming has been true for me.

 

The other thing that is new for me on this Whole30 (my first, Day 16), is that I'm not drinking liquids before or during meals. from what I hear, this allows the body to absorb nutrients better. but I am So Thirsty after meals, i find I can never get enough liquids, and I'm constantly quenching my thirst with seltzer or lemon water. And, as I think you mentioned, I wish i didn't have to pee during the night, it really disrupts my sleep. 

 

What I've been doing (or trying to do) is instead of downing water like I'm a camel crossing the desert, is slowly drinking water throughout the day, and also stopping a couple hours before I go to bed, to hopefully prevent nighttime sleep interruptions.  

[FlyingCrow]

How much water are you actually consuming in a day?  What may seem excessive to you based on your historical average may actually be fully normal.  

 

2 litres of water is really only a sufficient amount if you are around 120 pounds (54kg).  Our recommendation is half an ounce per pound of bodyweight.  Instead of pounding a litre of water at bedtime, can you try and concentrate your fluids to the daylight hours?  It is also possible that now that your body has released any retained water due to inflammation that it is trying to find its new normal.

 

Is having a dry mouth and thirst your only sign of dehydration? Is it possible that you are not actually dehydrated but rather have dry mouth? What color is your urine? Were you a gum chewer previously? On any medication that has dry mouth as a symptom?

Thanks Ladyshanny, Yes, I was beginning to wonder if actually, although it seems a lot, in fact it's not so much. I guess I'm drinking between 3 and 4 litres a day and I weigh about 153lb.

i am definitely thirsty, I don't just have a dry mouth. No not a gum chewer and no meds. This coincides with the change of diet.

I have already tried to drink more during the day, the problem in the evenings is I am incredibly thirsty after eating. I will try drinking even more during the day and see what happens.

[FlyingCrow]

Hi FlyingCrow - beautiful painting as your image by the way -- i feel very similar to you in that I'm unaccustomed to eating three square meals (i'm much more of a grazer); the quantity is also quite more than I'm used to; I'm not used to so much meat; and I'm also ridiculously thirsty. 

 

I had been thinking that maybe I've actually always been "thirsty," but since I grazed throughout the day, i didn't notice and/or had misperceived thirst as needing a small snack for blood sugar or energy or hunger. That, in combination with the fact that I've never paid such close attention to what I'm consuming, and more specifically, to my body's reactions and physical state as the day goes by, could it be that you're simply more attuned to the need for hydration than before because you're not snacking, and you're also more aware of your body in general? *** this is not meant to be dismissive of your legitimate, real thirst, that's just what I've been assuming has been true for me.

 

The other thing that is new for me on this Whole30 (my first, Day 16), is that I'm not drinking liquids before or during meals. from what I hear, this allows the body to absorb nutrients better. but I am So Thirsty after meals, i find I can never get enough liquids, and I'm constantly quenching my thirst with seltzer or lemon water. And, as I think you mentioned, I wish i didn't have to pee during the night, it really disrupts my sleep. 

 

What I've been doing (or trying to do) is instead of downing water like I'm a camel crossing the desert, is slowly drinking water throughout the day, and also stopping a couple hours before I go to bed, to hopefully prevent nighttime sleep interruptions.

you too huh?!

No, this is new thirst for me, definitely. No question I was mistaking this for hunger before. I do drink throughout the day, but no matter how much i drink i am, like you. Incredibly thirsty after eating. I didn't chug down all that water in one go the other evening, I had a glass, but it wasn't enough, had another, that lasted for a while etc etc.

I am going to consciously try drinking even more throughout the day and see what happens, plus add some more starch veg in the evening and see how it goes ( which I did last night, but there was no perceivable difference, however I'll try for a few days)

[FlyingCrow]

So, it's not diabetes, it's nothing to do with glycogen, it's actually quite simple: we need more water to digest the increased amounts of animal protein because we require water to make hydrochloric acid in order to digest the meat.

This is no doubt why everyone needs to increase their water intake when following the Whole 30, and for some of us that increase may well be much more than others.

[JaneBerkin]

Why do you think our bodies need more water than others -- what is the physical reasoning for this? Also - can you post where you found out this information? And you say it's specifically animal protein, not just protein in general?

 

Thanks FlyingCrow! I'm thirsty right now and going to get a drink

[FlyingCrow]

Why do you think our bodies need more water than others -- what is the physical reasoning for this? Also - can you post where you found out this information? And you say it's specifically animal protein, not just protein in general?

 

Thanks FlyingCrow! I'm thirsty right now and going to get a drink

No idea why we'd need more, I'm afraid. All I know is we require water to make stomach acid.

The source is the SAS Survival manual which I trust.