MEAT - tired of it, and wondering about ethics

[livvie2012]

Hello! I'm just over a week into my first Whole30, and I'm seriously tired of meat (and eggs). I've been trying to use a variety of types and preparations, but at this point I'm really forcing myself to eat meat rather than enjoying it. I've also been having some fish, but what I'd most like right now is a few vegetarian days. That, however, has the problem of not making me full, so I'd wake up in the middle of the night, hungry. Has anyone else experienced this?

And speaking of meat: This is one of the major concers I have about this way of eating. Even if by the end of the Whole30 I may find that it is beneficial, it is not sustainable for large populations. That is, while it is no different from now in that life isn't fair, and we can't expect billions of people around the world to eat the best available food, it seems particularly troubling to propose an increase in meat consumption when resources (land, water) are already limited as it is. I'd appreciate people's thoughts on this.

[Emily]

There's been a lot written on this. You might check out the Vegetarian Myth or Joel Salatin's writings (he writes about sustainable agriculture and doesn't focus only on meat).

There's so much to say about this and I have to keep my message short... The short answer is that it is we don't have a food shortage problem, we have a food distribution problem. A huge percentage (50% I believe) of the world's food spoils everyday. Humanely raising animals can raise more and healthier food than conventional agriculture and do it in a way that keeps the soils, air, and water healthy. (and all of us!)

Conventional farming methods and processed food are bringing first world diseases to the third world. You will have to read and decide for yourself, but after twenty years of researching and caring about food ethics (including being vegetarian and vegan) I have come to decide this is the most ethical way to eat and spend my food dollars. I hunt and I buy local grassed beef in bulk. I just canned 22lbs of green beans this weekend. I have a garden and I do some foraging.

I realize this will sound idealistic, but I think that by changing our priorities we can expect billions of people around the world to eat the best available food.

[Flynn]

I've done a few whole 30's and get totally burned out on meat as well...it makes me feel heavy, constipated, and extremely guilty if I eat too much. This isn't truly in the spirit of whole 30 but my remedy for this is nut butter salad. Make a giant salad of whatever vegetables you like, put something acidic on it like lemon or lime, then put a giant gob of almond butter, sunbutter or whatever your nut butter of choice is for you fat and protein. You need a giant gob so you get full. It's delicious and satisfying. Canned sardines are a nice change as well...many are very sustainable!

[Adagio]

As a former vegan, I did a lot of research on food issues and animal cruelty.

I totally agree with Emily's post.

Watching Food Inc. and Fresh DVD's will give you perspective on the food issue. Also, you tube videos or books by Joel Salatin. The book The Vegetarian Myth addresses this issue. I cannot endorse the book as I'm not a fan of the author, and have a few differences with her, but there is good info about animal/food ethics.

CAFO's and Big Agri have taken over the food industry. That is the problem, not the meat.

If you are sick of meat, why not just have a meatless day once in a while? It won't hurt you - perhaps eat nuts and maybe some eggs and/or tuna if you feel like it.

[livvie2012]

Thanks for all the helpful responses. Flynn - I'll try your salad idea. I do love nut butters!

Adagio and Emily - great, I'll take a look at the books you mentioned. I'm always happy to educated myself. I do care a lot about these topics.

[jrustdc]

I'm a former vegetarian and what started me down the path that ultimately led to Whole30 was Barbara Kingsolver's Animal, Vegetable, Miracle. It's a fantastic book that changed my thinking on many food issues, and reinforced other beliefs. I now firmly believe that eating sustainably raised eggs and meats is healthiest for me, for my local economy, and the best way to fight back against the horrors of factory farming. But it is a big change after 20+ years of vegetarian eating, and you have to do what you can handle.

[zoom]

Dear Livvie2012,

I soooooo relate to this post. I feel like this all the time. Pre

Whole30 I was a consicentious omivour which to me is about not just sourcing meat that is sustainable and treated humanely, but also about reducing consumption. My inner ethical voice is hounding me during my current Whole30, because I really feel it isn't sustainable to eat meat 3 times a day [though I'm going to read the books suggested above and maybe i'll feel differently].

As for 'being sick of meat' I really relate to that too, the way I get around it, is to make sure I have at least 3 different things in the fridge. Thai fish, roast pork, chicken curry etc. I find it's when I eat roast beef every meal for 3 days that I get bored.

I definitely yearn for some vegietarian days, and I hoping at the end of Whole30 when we try reintroducing that there is some stuff that I could use as a protein supplement.

[Professor Mama]

I just want to echo support for Zoom and livvie. I'm feeling the same exhaustion with meat and eggs, and I'm having the same feelings about long-term sustainability. I think it's important to acknowledge that these are big issues.

I'm very familiar with the literature Emily and jrustdc mentioned. But neither Lierre Keith, Michael Pollan, Barbara Kingsolver, nor Joel Salatin have researched the sustainability of eating a diet without whole grains. They all encourage eating wild and sustainable meats, but that's not the same as advocating whole 9 rules. Barbara Kingsolver does grain and dairy like nobody's buisness. And Michael Pollan's most quotable advice is "Eat food, mostly plants, not too much." And because he describes in detail how he makes his own bread, I'm thinking he's not on board here, either!

Furthermore, as a former Peace Corps Volunteer, I lived in Africa for two years. I can say that for most of my friends and former neighbors there, avoiding grains is simply not an option. And folks, they're already doing sustainable agriculture. They're coping with a super-dense population and limited access to technologies that might help them. So the answers are not simple here.

Sorry for the soap box. I know I have a lot to learn, and I don't want to discourage anyone from making it all the way to 30 days. I'm going for it, Zoom and Livvie. Let's do this thing! But let's also keep asking ourselves these questions. They're really important and can't be easily dismissed.

And I'm really glad you raised them, because they were bugging the heck out of me, too.

[Emily]

These are good questions... I hope I didn't imply that they weren't!

I think we have to eat what makes us feel good (really good, not good briefly and then sick, like sugar does to me), and continue to work and discuss these issues long term.

[Robin Strathdee]

...They all encourage eating wild and sustainable meats, but that's not the same as advocating whole 9 rules....

While everyone has made valid points here, I think it's important to remember why you started this program in the first place. Something inside you was drawn to this program as an answer for you personally, and that is where you have to begin.

It is true that we who are choosing to pursue this lifestyle, especially in North America, have access to resources that others around the world do not have. People around the world have to fight for their next meal, whatever it may be, and in those situations there is no hierarchy, no food pyramid. There is survival. I agree that has to be acknowledged. I am truly humbled and grateful to be able to consciously choose the food that his healthiest for my children, to be able to eat with discernment, to turn down one food in favor of another. However, I will continue to choose local meats and vegetables, produced ethically and sustainably, regardless of those other circumstances. I will not choose foods that make my body or my family less healthy simply because other families have fewer (or no) options. Instead, I will do what I can to support those in impoverished circumstances (here and abroad) so that they, too, will be able to make the best choices for their circumstances.

There are issues to be discussed as far as production and maintenance of healthy food, yes. And some excellent resources were offered as a start. The question at hand is whether you want to pursue this as the healthiest option available to YOU.

[livvie2012]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I have read a few of the books mentioned. I agree with Robin that within the context that we are so fortunate to live in we should pursue the lifestyle that is best for us and our families. And I want to do so humbly, with awareness of how lucky we are, but also always considering what impact we have on our direct environment and the world at large.

Which is why, while I've become a huge fan of all things coconut, I'm also a bit skeptical about some of the staples of the paleo diet: avocado and coconuts have to be flown in from far away for many/most Americans. Not as local as I would prefer!

[jrustdc]

Yes, I have always been frustrated by the fossil fuel impact of all of the coconut and avocados -- and I eat plenty of them. For me it would be very hard to eat W30 without them as we still don't eat red meat. Although I now see the validity of eating local humanely raised meat, and we eat poultry/fish, it's so far been too much of a mental leap to eat red meat again, which means that coconut and avocado are our main source of healthy fats and are very important in terms of satiety. It is healthy for me to eat this way, but it does have environmental implications with which I'm not entirely comfortable.