Foods without brakes

[thenewdrl]

Okay I have had many a slips in terms of snacking or binging on foods. Realized that canned coconut milk isn't a good fat source for me, avocados need to be halved, coconut butter can't be eaten with a spoon and I think fresh fruit is out. Plantain chips are only for topping a salad. But I can eat an entire pan of root veggies or a huge fresh salad and half a pot of soup. It seems like everything is food without brakes to me.

[GFChris]

Sounds like you're experimenting and figuring out when you're full.  You've made some great decisions for yourself thus far. Note that it's really hard to overdo veggies.

Eat mindfully: chew slowly, eat while sitting at a dining table, and when you eat make it the only thing you do (e.g., don't be driving in the car, on the computer or smart phone). Give your brain the chance to register when you're pleasantly full. 

When you have those root veggies, salad, or soup, be sure to include 1-2 palms of protein and the appropriate amount of compliant fat.

 

[thenewdrl]

I just feel like I'm getting so fat- eating until I figure out how much I need...i don't know if during the day I'm not eating enough or what but after dinner I'm ravenous and or bored eating. But I love steamed broccoli and fish so if I asked myself if I'm down for some the answer is always yes. I want to get away from the mindset that I need to be full after a meal but I don't want to have the mindset that I'm not allowing my body what it needs to fuel it properly.

[GFChris]

If you'd always eat steamed broccoli and fish then choose a different meal for the "Am I Truly Hungry" question.  What's the most bland unappealing meal you can come up with, that you'd need to be ravenous to eat?

If you'd like to get feedback on whether you're eating enough, post 2-3 days worth of your typical food log, including portion sizes, water consumption and any exercise.  Also if you're female, where are you at in your cycle? 

 

[thenewdrl]

My cycles are very off. Last period was May 21. I will post after the weekend. I want to start a new without my foods without brakes- but what is the rule? Do I need to go back to day 1? I think I need to have carbs every day so that I don't binge on carbs at night. Also I work out every day- kickboxing or boot camp but I have been eating my meal 1 as soon as I wake us before working out if it's in the am and if it's in the pm I eat dinner as soon as I get home from working out. Should I be eating five solid meals a day then instead?

[GFChris]

Ok, so it's no wonder you're challenged with your cycles being out of whack.

Have you had your hormones,thyroid or adrenals checked? Do you give yourself at least one rest day a week from exercise?

No, you didn't break any W30 rules, so you don't need to restart for overeating compliant food.

I do believe you would benefit from adding pre and post workout meals to your three main meals.

[thenewdrl]

I have thyroid and adrenal issues and am working with a functional. I wanted to do a whole30 because I want to have a healthy relationship with food cannot count calories and over exercise it causes too much stress for me. I want to eat to live not to feed my emotions. I take Saturday's off and usually go for a leisurely four mile walk with a friend. I had a breakfast of a meat patty and spinach mushroom and onions with a tablespoon of coconut butter in my coffee. That was 4 hours ago. I am not hungry yet. I will eat in an hour though.

[kirkor]

Is this Part 2 of your other thread?

[ladyshanny]

Putting starchy veggies later in the day helps many folks not have the "urge" to eat at night.  Sometimes putting those starchy veggies and any fruit you might eat in the front part of the day can cause cravings and false hunger later in the day and into the evening.

 

Try messing around with that timing and see if it helps.

[thenewdrl]

I realized that any "snacky" foods are foods without breaks. I need to have my fruit in my food not even on the side of my plate, like my apple has to be chopped into my salad or I will crave more fruit.

Today I ate:

Meal 1:

2 slices salmon

1 tbs coconut butter

About 3 cups of roasted root veggies

1.5 cups sautéed cabbage/carrots

Unfortunately, I was snacky and may have over did it on fruit and coconut butter

Meal 2:

Huge salad with romaine lettuce, cabbage, cucumber, shredded carrot, half an avocado, a nice size amount of London broil and dressed with avocado oil.

Meal 3:

Another salad with lettuce, half an avocado, fennel, half an apple, London broil and olive oil dressing.

Meal 4 ( I was famished 2 hours later )

A half a fennel bulb, half an apple, slice of salmon, dressed with oil. A plantain fried in coconut oil.

I feel satiated.

I have gained a lot of fat this past week eating tons of food without brakes and getting used to eating this way. I hope to have no more snacks or binges. How do my meals look though?

[missmary]

Your meals look pretty good! I only see two issues:

 

One is protein. How big is a slice of salmon? How big is a "nice amount" of london broil? If these are anything less than one palm-size (length width and thickness of your palm) then I think this is the issue. Eat at least one palm size of protein, and it is not a bad thing to eat two palm-size portions at a meal if you need it.

 

The other is that fruit and coconut butter snack. You slipped that in there without really listing it, but I didn't miss it.  Do not make a habit of snacking on fruit and coconut butter. If you are hungry, eat more of whatever you eat at meals (that meal 4 was a good example). Snacking on fruit will only make you want to snack on fruit more, and it will also mess with your other meals--eat too much fruit as a snack, not hungry for the next meal, don't eat enough, get hungry 30 minutes later, eat more fruit? no. stop that pattern of eating by not starting that pattern of eating.

[Hannlib]

I think you need to put your jar of coconut butter in the bin. Or at a friend's house. Or on a very high cupboard. Nut and coconut butters have no place on a w30 for me. Total food without brakes. Ditto nuts (unless chopped into a recipe), fruit (unless in a recipe or meal), dried fruit, nut milk lattes, coconut milk (except in a recipe ie as part of a sauce) and white potatoes in most forms but especially roasted. If I don't eat these things I eat more protein, more veg and other good fats in appropriate ratios and at appropriate times ie at 3 template meals a day. Nothing else.

[thenewdrl]

Yep. That's the current situation. I have a terrible relationship with food. I'm also unsure about the palm size and thum size...I have a pretty small Palm. My salmon is usually about 4-5 inches long and two fingers wide. I haven't been measuring my cooking oil or my salad dressing oil and almost always adding half avocado. Is that too much? I'm also unsure about when I should eat my carb. Every meal? Once a day?

[jmcbn]

When we're talking palm-sized we mean the length, width & depth of your palm. So if it was smoked salmon two slices wouldn't be nearly enough. If it was a  slice of salmon fillet then two would probably be good. That said the recommendation of 1-2 palm sized pieces is the minimum, so if you're finding that it is not lasing you through until your next meal then add more.
 

A half an avocado is fine on top of whatever cooking oils you are using. I tend to ignore cooking oil and always add in another fat source, and I free pour my oil so don't get bogged down with how much you are using.

As ladyshanny has already said a lot of folk report that if they eat fruit or starchy carbs in the morning they have a crash later in the day - resulting in faux hunger, lack of focus, fatigue etc., so it may be best to keep it until meal three (which a lot of people say helps them sleep better).

Also as GFChris mentioned earlier in the thread, if you are working out every day you would really benefit from at least a postWO meal of protein & starchy carbs it would certainly cut out the need for that snack.

 

[chezjulie]

One thing I notice is that you ate salads twice yesterday and both had lettuce as a base. I find that cooked veggies are more filling than salads, and when I do make a salad I try to use baby spinach or kale so it's a little heartier. I have a salad every weekday for lunch, but I would probably be hungry if I had a salad for dinner, too. 

 

I think you are doing better than you think you are. Your food is light because you're not having pre- and post-workout meals even though you're kickboxing (wow! quite a workout!). Lots of people start out finding there are compliant foods that they overdo (for me it was nuts, nut butters, and Larabars) and make some kind of course correction in the second week and still have really good results. 

 

Once you start eating mini-meals to fuel your workouts, maybe switch some raw veggies to cooked, and ditch the coconut butter, i bet you'll do great.

[thenewdrl]

Thank you so much! Needed to hear that. Thank you for all your input. The coconut butter has disappeared. I turned it into mayo. Lets hope that doesn't turn into a food without brakes. Today I am doing much better. I am busy and out of the house. I also got my period today which might explain the binging. Still not an excuse. It's a bit tricky to pack hearty salads or a ton of veggies for lunch at work so I was planning on having a salad for dinner and a small sweet potatoe as I work out after work before dinner.

[jmcbn]

Thank you so much! Needed to hear that. Thank you for all your input. The coconut butter has disappeared. I turned it into mayo. Lets hope that doesn't turn into a food without brakes. Today I am doing much better. I am busy and out of the house. I also got my period today which might explain the binging. Still not an excuse. It's a bit tricky to pack hearty salads or a ton of veggies for lunch at work so I was planning on having a salad for dinner and a small sweet potatoe as I work out after work before dinner.

^This definitely.

Re the postWO I'd say opt for a protein and add the starchy carb if you like. The protein is more important. I tend to eat a lean protein immediately upon finishing my session, shower & then have dinner, that way I can fit it all in before bed.

Glad things are improving for you.

[Chachers04]

We do need more energy leading up to periods though. I find I can eat tons more when PMSing, try sweet potaoes, carrots, white potatoes, lots of yummy starches during that time

[thenewdrl]

would love some input on how i am doing so far:

 

Sunday

too long ago to remember-i did only have three meals. i tried to follow the template adding more protein or fat when i felt hungry. 

 

Monday:

Meal 1: three meat balls, 1 lb spinach, mushrooms and onions, coconut oil in my coffee. around 7 am

Meal 2: three meat balls, 3 cups of steamed cauliflower, 3 cups of sauteed cabbage and carrots, a whole small avocado. around 12 pm

went to boot camp at 630.

Meal 3: three meat balls, a palm of london broil, lettuce, fennel, half an apple, a bowl of zucchini soup, a mini sweet potato, coconut mayo (got ride of the coconut butter!!) unfortunately this didnt happen until around 830 pm.

Drank: a gallon water, plus 3 cups of water, plus a liter of coconut water during work out. (i dont know i was in the mood help)

 

Tuesday: (today)

Meal 1: Slice of salmon, 1 lb spinach, mushrooms and onions, coconut oil in my coffee that i didnt finish. around 545 am

went to kickboxing at 7 am

Meal 2: slice of salmon, mini sweet potato. 8 am

Meal 3: burger patty, 3 cups cabbage/carrot sauteed, 3 cups steamed cauliflower, half an avocado (i hope to only eat half- food that needs training wheels) also plan on eating this around 1 pm if i make it until then

Mea 4: a burger patty, coconut mayo, fennel, lettuce, half an apple, bowl of soup, mini sweet potato, sauteed veggies. to be eaten at 630/7 pm

To drink: a gallon or more, also started on a kombucha...

 

What do you all think? How am i doing? i noticed that i am feeling full, not stuffed but always scrounging for food- to keep me company, to feed my nerves, to fill my time...it helps to plan what i will eat and to not have snacks around. i dont even want non-compliant foods, but i do need to exercise control over my meals especially fats. 

[ladyshanny]

 i noticed that i am feeling full, not stuffed but always scrounging for food- to keep me company, to feed my nerves, to fill my time...

OK, this is the emotional and mental aspect of the Whole30 that kind of sucks.  If you are used to using food for these purposes (as many of us are), modifying your meals is going to be of limited value.  You can always take the advice we've given above and move starches and fruits to later in the day as well as make sure you're eating enough fat because that helps dull down physical cravings.  But..........in the case of using food for anything other than fuel..............well, that's just the hard road you have to slog.  You have to feel your feelings without numbing them with food, you have to embrace downtime without using food as a distraction.  You have to redefine your relationship with food and there's only so much the Whole30 forum can do to help you with that.  Just know that we are totally behind you, we know you can do this! you aren't the first and won't be the last.

 

If these "reasons" you want food are manifesting as hunger, you will need to eat an amount of food appropriate to your context and then work through the rest.  If you come from a background of significant overeating and using food for purposes other than fuel, you can certainly continue to do that within the Whole30 and depending on how often/much you do this, you will more than likely gain weight.  Now is the time you eat the meal, put the food away and do the hard work to break that damaged relationship.

[thenewdrl]

OK, this is the emotional and mental aspect of the Whole30 that kind of sucks.  If you are used to using food for these purposes (as many of us are), modifying your meals is going to be of limited value.  You can always take the advice we've given above and move starches and fruits to later in the day as well as make sure you're eating enough fat because that helps dull down physical cravings.  But..........in the case of using food for anything other than fuel..............well, that's just the hard road you have to slog.  You have to feel your feelings without numbing them with food, you have to embrace downtime without using food as a distraction.  You have to redefine your relationship with food and there's only so much the Whole30 forum can do to help you with that.  Just know that we are totally behind you, we know you can do this! you aren't the first and won't be the last.

 

If these "reasons" you want food are manifesting as hunger, you will need to eat an amount of food appropriate to your context and then work through the rest.  If you come from a background of significant overeating and using food for purposes other than fuel, you can certainly continue to do that within the Whole30 and depending on how often/much you do this, you will more than likely gain weight.  Now is the time you eat the meal, put the food away and do the hard work to break that damaged relationship.

this is exaclty what i have been doing these past few days...feeling the feelings and not feeding them or using food as a crutch. i want to lose weight if anything, not gain. but my goals for my whole30 are to have a healthy relationship with food and heal my body. my whole30 will likely be much longer than 30 days...

[thenewdrl]

i really just wanted to know if the meals i posted above were adequate and if i was making progress...

[Carlaccini]

You are making progress - definitely - but still get the feeling that your protein amounts - especially for meal 1 could be bigger.  I mean how big are the meatballs?  Are they 1" meatballs or 2" meatballs?  We don't really know.  If they are 1" meatballs - I would certainly say that you could have more protein.

 

Fats and veggies look good.  Remember you can never really overdo the veggies.

[aaevk]

I just stumbled upon this thread and found everything about it very helpful! Thanks so much for your honesty about what you are struggling with, and thanks to the mods for all the compassionate, truthful advice. Love this community more every day

[chezjulie]

I'm not a moderator, just a fellow struggler, but the last two meals you posted looked a lot better to me. They looked like they were really composed to the template, you had a workout meal in there, there were more cooked veggies, and they had fats in appropriate amounts. Good job!