Not hungry enough (underweight)?

[Allia]

Hello, I am really stressing out about my current diet. I am underweight (?? like I don't have my period and stuff) and it is difficult for me to eat enough so that I gain weight. I even lost some on Whole30.

 

Sadly, I am not used to eating in order to gain so it is hard for me to listen to my body to get everything I need. The last thing I can think of is drinking a serving of coconut milk with coffee, or adding snacks, or making SWYPO foods. I also have trouble having bowel movements which makes me lose my appetite. Are there any ways to mitigate this issue? D:

 

I understand that here, counting calories/tracking intake is discouraged but I don't think I can eat enough without doing that as I am really unaccustomed to being healthy.

[GFChris]

Hi Allia,

As I previously advised on some of your previous posts, I strongly encourage you to seek out a professional counselor to help you navigate your food challenges. Such an individual can work one on one in person with you, to help you nourish yourself, learn to assess true hunger and gain weight in a healthy way.

[Allia]

Thanks for your advice. I am not talking about a psychological problem though... I am just wondering how to deal with reduced satiety on this diet and if there are any alternatives besides drinking liquid foods like coconut milk.

[GFChris]

In short, eat more. :-)

Eat to the higher end of the template for every meal. 2 palms of protein, 3 cups of veggies, and the higher end of the fat recommendations at every meal. Start eating meal 1 within 1/2 hour of waking and repeat every 4-5 hours. Include two fist-sized servings of carb-dense veggies daily. This article has more tips: http://whole30.com/2013/12/keeping-weight-whole30/

Bowel challenges can come from not drinking enough water, too many nuts, raw veggies or cruciferous veggies.

[Allia]

The thing is that, how do I get more used to eating more? O.O I'm thinking of drinking coconut milk in coffee (like... a whole serving of fat in coffee) tomorrow but I'm not sure if that defeats the point of Whole3 or not lol.

[GFChris]

Add more food one meal at a time if that's what's needed.

Part of Whole30 is to learn how to nourish and satiate yourself. If you've been undereating, it's time to eat more.

If you are challenged by that notion, that's an area outside the scope of this forum and the Whole30. This is where I feel working with a professional is your next best step. There is only so much strangers on the internet can advise vs. a clinical professional with more in-depth expertise on food/eating challenges who can work with your unique situation in more detail in person.

[Allia]

I don't feel psychologically challenged, but I am wondering if there is a way to eat more without feeling too full.

[Saree_maree]

Allia,

 

I understand your challenges. The simplest answer to your question is to eat more fat. Fat has more than twice as many calories per gram as either carbohydrates or protein. While a focus on calories is not necessary to most people doing a Whole30, if you want to gain weight, you must be in a caloric excess.

 

If you eat more fat, you can eat a smaller volume of food (feel less full) while actually taking in more calories. Coconut milk may not be your best choice. It is a fat but it has a relatively high amount of water compared to other fats. Think more along the lines of oils and oil-based spreads/dressings. Oils add essentially zero volume to your meals but add a significant amount of calories. Right now I would like to gain a few pounds, so I recently (like, yesterday) started melting coconut oil on top of my baked sweet potatoes. I hardly taste it, and it doesn't make me feel any more full, but it adds 100 or so calories every time I do it. You could add any healthy oil on top of any meal you eat.

 

I'm not currently in your situation, but I've been there before many times. I don't know how old you are. I'm in my 30s. I've struggled with anorexia and bulimia since I was a teenager. I've sacrificed years of my life and hundreds of thousands of dollars on treatment. I urge you to take all measures available to you to address your illness NOW, as soon as you can. The Whole30 is a wonderful way to address the eating side of this equation, but as I'm sure you realize that is only one facet to what is a complex bio-psycho-social process. You can't eat your way out of an eating disorder.

 

Best of luck to you. Feel free to private message me if you have any questions.

 

Saree

[Allia]

Thanks, Saree. I have already addressed much of the psychological issues by finding happiness and dedication in other matters. It is not that severe to me right now, and my biggest worry is getting physically healthy right now.

I understand about the fats. I ended up trying coconut milk in coffee actually; it was helpful, I suppose.

A confusion I am having is about the palm size actually ... I don't think this rule really applies to me because I have the smallest hands out of everyone I know, and I don't think I should reduce my portion sizes to be a lot less than another person's...(?) For something like canned tuna one palm for me is like half a 5 oz can for example.

Maybe I should try to just eat around a quarter pound of meat haha... or else I really won't get enough. (When I use the recipes from cookbooks they list it in pounds. Measuring for that purpose doesn't give me stress.)

[Allia]

Thanks, Saree. I have already addressed much of the psychological issues by finding happiness and dedication in other matters. It is not that severe to me right now, and my biggest worry is getting physically healthy right now.

I understand about the fats. I ended up trying coconut milk in coffee actually; it was helpful, I suppose.

A confusion I am having is about the palm size actually ... I don't think this rule really applies to me because I have the smallest hands out of everyone I know, and I don't think I should reduce my portion sizes to be a lot less than another person's...(?) For something like canned tuna one palm for me is like half a 5 oz can for example.

Maybe I should try to just eat around a quarter pound of meat haha... or else I really won't get enough. (When I use the recipes from cookbooks they list it in pounds. Measuring for that purpose doesn't give me stress.)

Haha I don't want to sound like I'm obsessive about measuring. It's just that I don't think the palm size is accurate for everyone, for example for people with very small or very large hands relative to others their stature, such as me. (I had lots of trouble playing certain piano pieces because of my hands). I just mean, I think *my* minimum for *my situation* is not one of *my* palms.

 

Is this a healthy attitude? I hope it is haha;;

[missmary]

A confusion I am having is about the palm size actually ... I don't think this rule really applies to me because I have the smallest hands out of everyone I know, and I don't think I should reduce my portion sizes to be a lot less than another person's...(?) 

 

You are correct on this Allia. You need to eat more than a palm of protein at every meal. 2 should be your minimum.

 

I know you have said that there is not a psychological component but your questions repeatedly suggest that you need professional counseling. This isn't a criticism. Everybody needs help once in a while and only the strongest ones find and accept that help. If you can't nourish yourself on your own (using the whole30 guidelines or otherwise) seek out a professional who can help you in person.

[Allia]

You are correct on this Allia. You need to eat more than a palm of protein at every meal. 2 should be your minimum.

 

I know you have said that there is not a psychological component but your questions repeatedly suggest that you need professional counseling. This isn't a criticism. Everybody needs help once in a while and only the strongest ones find and accept that help. If you can't nourish yourself on your own (using the whole30 guidelines or otherwise) seek out a professional who can help you in person.

Yeah! I think I still have some psychological problems, but at this time I am working on them. I just wanted to say I don't know if addressing those problems would help me in the physical health department. I think I may resume counseling. I have tried a few sessions and it was enjoyable. I talked about some of the things that stressed me out, and my therapist was a good listener. Recently I do not have much time to go to counseling, so when I feel overwhelmed I talk to my parents sometimes.

I am super relieved I am correct on that haha. I just think that like... Although the template model is logical for many, it requires some fine-tuning in the cases on the two extremes. I hoe it didn't sound like a criticism of the Whole30 way of eating lol.

[GFChris]

Although the template model is logical for many, it requires some fine-tuning in the cases on the two extremes. I hoe it didn't sound like a criticism of the Whole30 way of eating lol.

The template is intended as a minimum guideline.  The ultimate test of how large to make your own unique portions is to size them to where your meals satiate you for 4-5 hours.

[Allia]

The template is intended as a minimum guideline. The ultimate test of how large to make your own unique portions is to size them to where your meals satiate you for 4-5 hours.

I got it. My legit minimum (or how much I "should" eat) would be more than how much meat is my palm due to personal variation of palm size. Like, I try to get in a certain amount of food that is sometimes not based on palms (oddly-shaped proteins). Does that seem logical?

[GFChris]

I got it. I just mean for me, my legit minimum (or how much I "should" eat) would be more than how much meat is my palm due to personal variation of size. Like, I try to get in a certain amount of food that is sometimes not based on palms (oddly-shaped proteins). Does that seem logical?

 

The logic is to eat the amounts of protein, veg and fat at each meal necessary to satiate you for 4-5 hours.  I get the sense that you're overthinking the template and it's causing you to stress and undereat.  In your particular case, you personally may be best served in setting aside the template and only focus on experimenting with the various protein, veg and fat sources and sizes to properly satiate you.  

[Allia]

The logic is to eat the amounts of protein, veg and fat at each meal necessary to satiate you for 4-5 hours. I get the sense that you're overthinking the template and it's causing you to stress and undereat. In your particular case, you personally may be best served in setting aside the template and only focus on experimenting with the various protein, veg and fat sources and sizes to properly satiate you.

I see. I am trying to do that right now actually - I try to use the template as a general guide, but I am trying not to compare too much with my palm. If I try too hard to compare, some of my anxiety around food has a greater chance of taking over and I start doing what the template tries to prevent us from doing (eating wrong amount). I am a big stressed as you can tell

[Allia]

Can anyone offer suggestions on what I ate on one day:

 

Meal 1:

• One chicken apple sausage

• Stir-fried cabbage, around 3/4 cup

Meal 2:

• Half a 5 oz can of chunk light tuna in water

• Celery

• Half a tbsp of homemade mayonnaise

Meal 3:

• Baked salmon. The piece was around 4 inches by 2 inches and 1 inch thick.

• 1/2 cup of stir-fried bell peppers.

• 2 big cubes of kabocha squash, around 2/3 the size of a computer mouse.

 

I don't think this is a lot of food for anyone, even those that don't need to keep weight on. The sad thing is, is that this is what following the palm thing is like in term of protein portion for me! So it sort of is not correct when one says "oh, don't bother with what others are eating" simply because it's very, very unlikely they eat less.

 

What are some ways I can tweak my daily menu in a way that is whole-food-centered (idk how to say this)? I don't want to fill up on non-dense veggies (like non-starchy ones) and not have enough room for anything else, either.

 

I just don't have the appetite to eat anything else. I feel so bloated and constipated and it's driving me up the wallDD: All the constipation cures I know are not compliant or not suggested on Whole30 (prune/pear juice, lots of fruits), save for the ones such as magnesium (doesn't work) or taking laxatives (I don't want to get dependent).

 

The most confusing thing of all is that even though I don't think I am eating enough I don't really feel any headaches from it. I do get tired and fall asleep easily but I also stay up really late. Maybe I could work out better if I ate more but I am not sure.

 

Thanks!

[ShannonM816]

 

Can anyone offer suggestions on what I ate on one day:

 

Meal 1:

• One Two chicken apple sausages

• Stir-fried cabbage, around 3/4 cup
• Baked sweet potato with a heaping spoonful (not a measuring spoon, the big spoon in the silverware drawer) of coconut oil (and maybe some cinnamon, just because it tastes good)

Meal 2:

• Half a whole 5 oz can of chunk light tuna in water

• Celery 

• Half a tbsp A big heaping spoonful (again, the spoon in the silverware drawer, not a measuring spoon) of homemade mayonnaise
• Combine those three things into a tuna salad, serve on a heaping bed of baby spinach or other leafy greens (like 2-3 big heaping handfuls) with grated carrots, diced cucumber, chopped radishes, and some tomatoes
• An apple, because it sounds good

Meal 3:

• Baked salmon. The piece was around 4 inches by 2 inches and 1 inch thick.

• 1/2 cup of stir-fried bell peppers, plus equal amounts of onions and mushrooms.

• 2 4-5 big cubes of kabocha squash, around 2/3 the size of a computer mouse.

 

I don't think this is a lot of food for anyone, even those that don't need to keep weight on. It isn't a lot. It isn't enough. The sad thing is, is that this is what following the palm thing is like in term of protein portion for me! Multiple people have pointed out to you in the past that the meal template is a minimum. There is no maximum. You could eat two or three or four times the minimum meal template at each meal, if that's what it took for you to feel satisfied and stay full for 4-5 hours. So it sort of is not correct when one says "oh, don't bother with what others are eating" simply because it's very, very unlikely they eat less.It still doesn't matter what anyone else eats. You eat what you need to eat. Let them eat what they need to eat. Every person is different and requires different amounts of food, but you lost weight on your Whole30 that you have said you do not need to lose, that you have said it is unhealthy for you to lose -- therefore you did not eat enough for you. Period. If you had eaten enough for you, you would not have lost weight that you didn't need to lose.

 

What are some ways I can tweak my daily menu in a way that is whole-food-centered (idk how to say this)? I don't want to fill up on non-dense veggies (like non-starchy ones) and not have enough room for anything else, either. 

 

I just don't have the appetite to eat anything else. I feel so bloated and constipated and it's driving me up the wallDD: To have regular bowel movements, you must consume adequate amounts of fiber, plus adequate amounts of liquid and adequate amounts of fat. If you don't have enough of these things, you will not have regular bowel movements. You need vegetables for the fiber. Lots of vegetables, of all kinds. You also need fat. Plus, you need to be sure you drink enough water. All the constipation cures I know are not compliant or not suggested on Whole30 (prune/pear juice, lots of fruits) You'd be better off eating protein, fats, and vegetables, but if eating fruit with every meal, even a little more than is usually recommended, would help with your constipation, go for it. I suspect it's probably the fiber in the fruit that would help, and you could get that from vegetables too, but try the fruit if you think it will help., save for the ones such as magnesium (doesn't work) or taking laxatives (I don't want to get dependent).

 

The most confusing thing of all is that even though I don't think I am eating enough I don't really feel any headaches from it. I do get tired and fall asleep easily but I also stay up really late. Maybe I could work out better if I ate more but I am not sure.

 

Thanks!

 

I made some suggestions based on your food you listed above. I do realize that this probably seems like a huge amount of food to you, and you may not be able to eat that much immediately. But, you can start plating up that much food at a time and eating as much as you can of it, and when you can't eat anymore, you could wrap it up and put it back in the fridge for later, setting yourself a goal to eat a little more every day. I think one benefit of plating up whole plates of food like this is that you will get more used to seeing this amount of food and over time, and it won't seem so weird to see so much at once anymore. 

[Allia]

 

 

 

I made some suggestions based on your food you listed above. I do realize that this probably seems like a huge amount of food to you, and you may not be able to eat that much immediately. But, you can start plating up that much food at a time and eating as much as you can of it, and when you can't eat anymore, you could wrap it up and put it back in the fridge for later, setting yourself a goal to eat a little more every day. I think one benefit of plating up whole plates of food like this is that you will get more used to seeing this amount of food and over time, and it won't seem so weird to see so much at once anymore. 

 

Omg you are such a kind person for taking the time to do this! I much appreciate the effort! Thank you!!

[Allia]

 

 

 

I made some suggestions based on your food you listed above. I do realize that this probably seems like a huge amount of food to you, and you may not be able to eat that much immediately. But, you can start plating up that much food at a time and eating as much as you can of it, and when you can't eat anymore, you could wrap it up and put it back in the fridge for later, setting yourself a goal to eat a little more every day. I think one benefit of plating up whole plates of food like this is that you will get more used to seeing this amount of food and over time, and it won't seem so weird to see so much at once anymore. 

 

Okay sorry for double post haha. I couldn't quite understand one part of your suggestions: What is the "big spoon" you are referring to? My family has metal spoons for eating with that have a tablespoon. It looks like this: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/Tablespoon6234.jpg Thenwe have wooden spoons that are the size of a teaspoon. o.o (Finally we have Chinese spoons for eating soup lol but I guess that doesn't count!)

 

Another thing I would like to ask is: Would this amount of food (like the amount you edited for) be designed for gaining weight or maintenance? (Like would it be considered to the upper end?) Thx!

[ShannonM816]

The spoons you eat with -- typically, at least in the ones I've seen, a heaping one of those would be more than a measured tablespoon. Really, the point is don't measure, just put a big ol' scoop.

 

As far as weight gain vs maintenance -- This is an amount that should at least keep you from losing weight. I don't know if you'll gain or not, but at least you won't lose anymore. You'd really need to eat this way for a while and see what happens with your weight.

[Allia]

The spoons you eat with -- typically, at least in the ones I've seen, a heaping one of those would be more than a measured tablespoon. Really, the point is don't measure, just put a big ol' scoop.

 

As far as weight gain vs maintenance -- This is an amount that should at least keep you from losing weight. I don't know if you'll gain or not, but at least you won't lose anymore. You'd really need to eat this way for a while and see what happens with your weight.

Ah I see. Thanks! It is a bit strange for me to get used to having more fat. All of our family's stir-frying is done in very little oil (1/2 teaspoon for 2-3 people and a lot stays in the pan).

As for sweet potatoes, the ones that we buy are 5 in long, 2 in diameter around but I've seen pretty big and pretty small ones. How big of a sweet potato were you referring to?

I certainly hope I don't lose more weight! I exercise 2-3x a week (strength training, somehow got personal trainer) - should I be eating differently on those days?

[Allia]

Ahh I feel really awkward bumping again, but I do have some follow-up concerns about this issue. I'm having trouble figuring out what to eat for all my meals! When I have a stir fry, the volume is increased a lot because everything is so loosely packed when it's on a plate, even if it's only one and a half cups in total of food, as the plate is piled so high.

 

I'm also not able to add more food that would help me with eating more without adding starchy vegetables or fruit, but I don't want to overload the carbs either D:

 

I don't know how to add fats to these stir-fries, and I have trouble thinking of a good handheld food (as easy to eat as a sandwich) for my M2, which is at school. I've read that nuts and seeds are not to be consumed in large quantities, so that makes sesame/sunflower sauce out. Are there any other savory and more "rich" fatty sauces that provide a similar hearty, deep flavor as nuts but aren't made from nuts?