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Brewer5

Brewer5: A Fresh Start

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It really seems like this is one area of life where different things work for different people.

 

 

Absolutely.

 

You shouldn't do anything if it doesn't feel right to you.  There are no vegetables (or even fruit, for that matter) that are "demons" to me.  If I had any reason to really really want starchy veggies or fruit...  I mean...  I'd eat them.  But the desire is simply not there.

 

I've arrived here through my own experiences.  I have read a lot of books ~ and yes, that knowledge helps me make some decisions.  But ultimately, I rely on what my body is telling me.  How do these foods affect me? ...  How do I feel my very best?

 

We can only decide how we feel our very best, by trying things out.  Most of us here have read Jimmy Moore's book, Keto Clarity ~ and that gave us the why and the how.  But we've each had to do our own individual experiments to see how it will actually play out for us as individuals.

 

Since you just read Taubes' book, I know you understand about insulin.  I have not read that book ~ but I assume he explains how the intense cravings for those off-road foods can really just disappear when you are keeping insulin levels low.   If it has been your experience that you finish a Whole 30 and are still really struggling with cravings... well.  That is something to examine, as you are doing now.

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My cravings are definitely not as intense as before. That's for sure. But that story you wrote towards the beginning of the thread of going to Chipotle (?) and how the carby foods just didn't even register as food, they could have been napkins? That sounds amazing and I am definitely not there.

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Well, googling "mini carrots bag" brings results that show they either come in 9 oz bags or 16 oz bags. So assuming Melissa meant the 9 oz bag, that's only 21g of carbs so it probably wouldn't knock someone out of ketosis. Her friend's Carrot Train might be headed to Crazytown, but that doesn't mean it's headed to Ketotown as well. Carbs add up all day long, especially when you're not counting. So for many low carb/keto people, it's easier to avoid carrots because then you don't *have* to worry about the blood sugar counts. You can continue to eat intuitively, at meals, listening to your body, etc., per other Whole30 principles, and have the low-carb benefits too.

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My cravings are definitely not as intense as before. That's for sure. But that story you wrote towards the beginning of the thread of going to Chipotle (?) and how the carby foods just didn't even register as food, they could have been napkins? That sounds amazing and I am definitely not there.

 

Yeah... we were at a Mexican restaurant where they serve the BEST chips and salsa in our area.  If I were going to eat chips and salsa ~ it would be there.  That was a true story (haha) ... and I have been there a couple of times, since.

 

I really am "there" all the time now.  None of the foods that I deemed worth it post-Whole 30 before, are worth it to me now.  This stretch of keto has been over 3 months now, and I have no intention of going back.

 

And it's not like I live in a bubble.  My husband has been doing a carb night once a week (or sometimes two nights in a row, if he is actually home for a weekend).   He and the kids have had pretty much ALL of my old favorites.   And I can honest-to-God tell you, that I have not had even one of those moments where you go, "Ohmygosh I just want to have such and such SO bad!" 

 

...I really don't.

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Well, googling "mini carrots bag" brings results that show they either come in 9 oz bags or 16 oz bags. So assuming Melissa meant the 9 oz bag, that's only 21g of carbs so it probably wouldn't knock someone out of ketosis. Her friend's Carrot Train might be headed to Crazytown, but that doesn't mean it's headed to Ketotown as well. Carbs add up all day long, especially when you're not counting. So for many low carb/keto people, it's easier to avoid carrots because then you don't *have* to worry about the blood sugar counts. You can continue to eat intuitively, at meals, listening to your body, etc., per other Whole30 principles, and have the low-carb benefits too.

 

Yes, that's why I wish there was some sort of "green light" list! I get that that doesn't exist, but do you think that if I stick to lower-carb veggies and just eat 1-2 cups per meal, I don't actually have to measure and do math with every meal? 

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Yes, that's why I wish there was some sort of "green light" list! I get that that doesn't exist, but do you think that if I stick to lower-carb veggies and just eat 1-2 cups per meal, I don't actually have to measure and do math with every meal? 

 

I do not measure and do math -- and I NEVER have.  This is my 3rd stretch of keto eating.  Please trust me when I say that it really is not necessary.  If I felt it were necessary ~ I would not be hanging out at the Whole 30 forum.   ;)  There is nothing instinctual about weighing your broccoli, okay?  Yes, people do it in the beginning when they are trying to get a feel for what a keto day would look like.  But I never did.  And I'm getting along just fine.

 

Re:  not enjoying greens.  Think about it this way...  your taste buds are still used to things that are sweeter.  You know how your taste buds change when you do a Whole 30 ... you go back to a cookie (or whatever) and it's crazy sweet?  Well, when you remove the fruit and starchy carbs ~ then your taste buds are making more changes, and I think things like greens will become more appealing to you as time goes on.  I never used to eat kale ~ and it is one of my favorite things now.  I have it in my power breakfast every morning, and I really do enjoy it and it makes me feel good.  If we run out of kale... man, it's time to go to the store!

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Yes, that's why I wish there was some sort of "green light" list! I get that that doesn't exist, but do you think that if I stick to lower-carb veggies and just eat 1-2 cups per meal, I don't actually have to measure and do math with every meal?

How about instead of trying to get into ketosis, you just concentrate on eating the vegetables that make you feel good and not eating the vegetables that don't make you feel good. I have tried not eating starches and fruits for the last month and I feel more stable... I may be one of the people that starches don't agree with... altho I ate blueberries on my eggs one day and I have to have a slosh of juice to take a medication a few times a week. Am I in Ketosis? Maybe...no clue... don't care... I just know that right now I've felt better not eating starchy carbs and fruit and my cravings and hysterical sugar thoughts are way down... It's not either Keto or nothing... so no, you don't need to weigh your food and you don't need to have a green light list of foods... if you think it's starches that bother you, then stop eating them for a while and monitor how you feel... eat the rest of the vegetables, protein and fats in the quantities that make you feel good and see what happens.

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It's not either Keto or nothing...

 

 

Right.

 

Even Jimmy Moore and Dr. Adam Nally, on their new Keto Talk podcast, were talking the other day about how they go in and out of ketosis.  They've both been at this for like 10+ years.  

 

It is the natural human state to go in and out of ketosis... and no one used to have any tools to monitor this.  They wouldn't even have had a name for it, or probably been aware of it.  It's just how it was.  There are times of the year when more carbohydrate would be available ... and times of the year when it would NOT.

 

I think it is a really important step for someone to be able to function and feel good without being reliant on a steady stream of glucose.  I do think this is a key step on the path to optimal health.  This is true metabolic flexibility.

 

But I think stressing too much about vegetables is a bit counter-productive.  As you said, take some things out for awhile... see how you feel.  If you get a hankering to try them again someday ~ go for it, and again... see how you feel.

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I'm not sure if I can emphasize how much I feel like carbohydrates are a drug to me.

 

Another long post by Jack ~ but some great stuff here:  The Dopamine Rx = Good Choices or Bad

 

"Proper dopamine allows us to sense what choices are best and optimal cortisol levels increase our neuronal growth while optimal progesterone allows these neurons to mature and optimal melatonin allows these neurons to forms a proper neural network to work.  Thinking and exercise strengthens this network and sleep wires or destroys this new network and tells us how it functions.  When the system works as designed by mother nature it is pure magic."

 

"Our dopamine levels are directly tied to what we do to our epigenetic switches in our body."

 

"Optimal dopamine balance allows for the proper choices in life…….bad choices for survival are born of alterations in dopamine levels in our brain and specifically in our frontal lobes."

 

"The gut bacteria become starved, FIAF rises, and this makes the human host burn its own fat for fuel and fat stores are depleted. This is precisely how the dance between our gut bacteria and our own adipose tissues is supposed to work in normal conditions. As amazing as this sounds it gets more bizarre. Since our gut flora controls our ability to make and store fat what if I told you they also might control our desires for the foods that they really want, namely fiber and carbohydrates? Well, this is precisely what happens. The gut flora control the levels of neurotransmitters, agouti, ghrelin, and NPY in the peripheral and central nervous system and this drives us to want to eat things. I have covered this numerous times already in many past blogs. The type of gut flora we employ actually is tied to the appetite, desires, and to the reward of the food with respect to the brain’s frontal lobes. (central dopamine levels)"

 

"Perfectly balanced dopamine levels in the brain allow humans to accomplish a favorite cliche: when dopamine is right you begin to reflexively pick your battles carefully, and make sure you win the ones you pick………and you begin to learn well to adapt well to your environment as you move naturally across it. You begin to embrace the zoo human you were born to be  and avoid the socialization you have collected that leads to procrastination.  Those behaviors are born of poor choices caused by altered dopamine levels and altered signaling in the brain."

 

 

"Ketogenic diets deplete serotonin and raise dopamine in the frontal lobes quickly helping people make better choices."

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How about instead of trying to get into ketosis, you just concentrate on eating the vegetables that make you feel good and not eating the vegetables that don't make you feel good. I have tried not eating starches and fruits for the last month and I feel more stable... I may be one of the people that starches don't agree with... altho I ate blueberries on my eggs one day and I have to have a slosh of juice to take a medication a few times a week. Am I in Ketosis? Maybe...no clue... don't care... I just know that right now I've felt better not eating starchy carbs and fruit and my cravings and hysterical sugar thoughts are way down... It's not either Keto or nothing... so no, you don't need to weigh your food and you don't need to have a green light list of foods... if you think it's starches that bother you, then stop eating them for a while and monitor how you feel... eat the rest of the vegetables, protein and fats in the quantities that make you feel good and see what happens.

So what do you define as starchy vegetables? Just the potatoes and squashes? Carrots and onions? Where do you draw the line?

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Well, I suppose it had to happen sooner or later: I tore my pants while doing squats.

<<pic>>

And this was a FULL rip --- from "down there" all the way to my belt line!

Ok, what the heck?!?!

Tore my pants again!

This time, I was wearing swim trunks, so I should've had enough slack! I even felt a bit of a tug during the first set, so I made sure to hike them up, and even rolled the hem a bit to make sure I wouldn't bind up ...

and the damn things tore through!

I don't have a big butt, I swear. :)

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So what do you define as starchy vegetables? Just the potatoes and squashes? Carrots and onions? Where do you draw the line?

Each person is different.  Try starting with what things like the sweet potato and winter squashes.  Try not to have the carrots and onions every day, but try them once in a while.  Don't stress over it.  If you feel better without the "heavier" carbs, think about cutting back on the "midweight" carbs.....  

 

Pay attention to how you feel....  don't worry about the rest :)

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Ok, what the heck?!?!Tore my pants again!This time, I was wearing swim trunks, so I should've had enough slack! I even felt a bit of a tug during the first set, so I made sure to hike them up, and even rolled the hem a bit to make sure I wouldn't bind up ...and the damn things tore through!I don't have a big butt, I swear. :)

Maybe you look into something with a bit of stretch to it? Most swim trunks are a nylon-y type material, not so forgiving....a lot like khakis that way! ;) But beyond that, why were you lifting in a bathing suit? LOL!

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Maybe you look into something with a bit of stretch to it? Most swim trunks are a nylon-y type material, not so forgiving....a lot like khakis that way! ;) But beyond that, why were you lifting in a bathing suit? LOL!

Man, you ain't kidding --- it looks like I got mauled by a bear!

(figured I wouldn't show off my tushie again)

DP8Zp0U.jpg

They didn't just rip along the seam like the khakis did; the fabric itself ruptured.

And I dunno, I don't think of these shorts as a bathing suit, just as any other casual-type shorts ... but man, apparently I need to accelerate my learning curve re: workout clothing!

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(figured I wouldn't show off my tushie again)

 

kirkor ~  It really is okay.  We've all been there with the butt getting bigger...  I mean, especially since you are doing squats.  It happens.  It's natural.  Don't be embarrassed... man, it's just us.

 

:lol:

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So what do you define as starchy vegetables? Just the potatoes and squashes? Carrots and onions? Where do you draw the line?

I don't eat potatoes of any kind or winter squash right now...I don't feel like having them right now and I feel fine without them so that's a win win for me... I don't really have a line... if I all the sudden thought I needed a potato, I would eat it... I'm not trying to get into ketosis or necessarily be a low-carber... I just know that I WAS eating potato every day and was having wicked hysterical sugar cravings and when I stopped eating potato every day, the cravings got better and the hysteria about them went away...

You, like I, are a one person science experiment and there are no lists that are going to make that less true.

Experiment... take something out and then see how you feel... it's no different than Whole30 elimination and re-introduction that you learned when doing your Whole30's. 

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Did you put a sepia filter on your avatar?

 

Yep.  I was messing around with that picture for another site (I have to blur out my friend) ~ and I liked it.  So I kept it.  :)

 

Should I change it back?   :lol:

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Yep, it's cool, I just noticed it was different.  B) 


In other news, I experienced a new twist on the "avoiding treats at the office" scenario. A fruit tray! Lots of cut up fruit: mango, papaya, watermelon, cantaloupe, honeydew, strawberries, pineapple, & grapes, accompanied by containers of toppings: coconut, cottage cheese, honey, raisins, granola.

So, *definitely* an amazing change of pace from the typical donuts and cake that you see at the office, but stilll............

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