Sugar Dragon Slayers

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Another realization: one of my workout buddies returned last week and I had a MUCH better time working out with him than some of my workouts previous.  I don't necessarily mean in terms of physical performance (although it is nice to have someone to cheer/goad you on, provide encouragement or to compete with), but mentally I didn't have so much time to critique myself in the mirror; I was more focused on guiding him through the exercises.

 

I also thought this morning: gee, I feel so much more alert, awake, aware and on top of things today!  I don't know if that's actually "keto brain" talking (it could be).  I think it's more likely because my family and I actually took the opportunity to get away for the day yesterday (Sunday) to a local ski resort.  Fresh air, physical activity and a change of pace made me feel very refreshed going back to work today.

 

Cheers,

 

-Lauren

[whole30determined]

Hi SDSs!  I thought I'd throw out a question to see how the Keto/Whole30 is going for you all.   And more specifically, I was curious as to how your meal planning looks.   What your typical M1, M2 and M3 look like.  I've been looking at buying Keto Clarity but haven't bit the bullet yet.   He mentions lower protein, too, than what we normally have and up the fat and my old mentality of protein should be 4-5oz creeps back in, so I start to doubt.   

 

Has anyone had any good results from it, and if so, any tips on how you structure you meals would be helpful.  I know it's low-carb, moderate protein and high good fats....but any examples of how you structure this would be great!   

 

I'm adding more fat into my meals now, and I can feel a huge change in my satiety and even my energy levels.  So, I'm getting more in-tune with this Keto/Whole30 thing....but I'm slow to be "all in".   I love my sweet potatoes!  They are the only starchy carb I allow myself on my lifting days.   Any feedback would be awesome!

[Brewer5]

I think it is really important to pay attention to how you feel as an individual, and adjust accordingly.

 

I did my first Whole 30 with sweet potatoes included... they gave me brain fog and upset my stomach (FODMAPs).

 

I did my second Whole 30 with white potatoes included... they kept my sugar dragon alive and well.  I got hangry/shaky just anticipating that potato (or potatoes) each night.  And I often woke up the next morning with that hungover/heavy feeling.

 

I did not do a Keto Whole 30 until my third.  

 

By that point, I had already read Jimmy's book ~ and I had already done a 30-day stretch of keto, just off on my own -- including dairy, snacking on pork rinds, and... I don't know, probably some artificial sweeteners in my coffee at Starbucks.  I realized that what I really wanted/needed was the benefits of ketosis, within the framework of a Whole 30.  And that has worked out really well for me.  And at least one other dude here.      But we've been here for years.  Tweaking, experimenting, figuring out what works best for us.

 

To be quite honest, the moderators get a little twitchy about us discussing keto.  That's because they want you having the best Whole 30 experience possible, and they don't want you trying to mix the two -- especially for your very first Whole 30.  It's not against the rules -- they just can't really support it.

 

All of us here, who were having this great discussion, had at least one Whole 30 done -- completed.  The ladies were trying to get information about how to best proceed for their futures ~ outside of a Whole 30 ~ whether that included a goal of ketosis, or not.

 

This thread will give you more insight into why things got so quiet here lately.  I'm afraid I upset Alison ~ although that was never my intention.  I want to see Alison succeed in whatever her goals may be.  I'm here because I care.

 

This thread is my post-Whole-30 log, where we discuss lots of things -- keto included.  You are welcome to come hang out with us anytime!  Lots of great discussion there.  Several of us doing well on a ketogenic diet.  Just note that, as of right now, we are also ALL post-Whole-30.

 

My recommendation to all ~has always been~ read the books.  Keto Clarity, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Eating, The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance, Grain Brain, and Brain Maker -- I have read all of these, multiple times.  I don't really think anyone can make an intelligent decision regarding ketosis, unless they actually know what they are talking about.    I read Jimmy's book while I was doing my second Whole 30.  I did not implement any changes until my Whole 30 was finished.

[ladyshanny]

To be quite honest, the moderators get a little twitchy about us discussing keto.  That's because they want you having the best Whole 30 experience possible, and they don't want you trying to mix the two -- especially for your very first Whole 30.  It's not against the rules -- they just can't really support it.

Here's how I see it.  And yes, we do get twitchy when people try to "hack" their Whole30, especially their first one.  It is completely possible for a person who is eating Whole30-style to end up in ketosis.  Some people really thrive there (and I sometimes wonder if many of those people are ones that are touting crazy tiger blood) and some people really do not.  The point of discouraging people from locking onto something like keto is that when you get narrowly focussed like that, you stop listening to your body.  It's similar to when folks lock onto calorie counting, they have a "goal" of a certain limit and they discount all the other messages that they are getting.  If someone decides that keto is the way to optimal fat loss, they may focus so specifically on forcing their body into ketosis that they stop listening to the signals that they are getting.

 

Should ketosis happen organically and be well tolerated by the person, physically, mentally and emotionally, then we would have absolutely no problem with that.  We're not going to go to someone who is feeling awesome and thriving on protein, fat and non-starchy veggies and tell them that they simply must consume some starchy veggie in order to ensure that they are not in ketosis.  But we're also not going to encourage or help someone restrict or count carbohydrates for the sole purpose of achieving this function.  That's not what Whole30 is.

 

Note, I also hope Alison comes back, she is a valuable and bright member of this community and it would be a shame for her to vacate as a result of constructive, well thought out criticism that came from a place of concern.

[J9er]

Great points both from Brewer and Ladyshanny. Hope you guys don't mind me dropping in here.

I am doing my second whole30 right now, and let me tell you I am learning so much about my body every single day. For me anyway, I have found playing around with the template and really trying to tweak it according to my body's hungar/satiety has been a powerful learning experience - for instance, found myself in front of the fridge eating cold sweet potato the other day....clearly something was amiss there!

I am greatly intrigued by keto, but there's no way I'll attempt it before I can listen to my body and really understand what it needs rather than just throwing a dart and praying that I hit the bulls eye.

I also think that the way the whole30 gets us to move away from tracking macros is awesome and personally never want to go there, never have, and I know it would be dangerous for me. again, going back to knowing and listening to our body and not going to that place where we need to know the percentage of every morsel that goes in our mouths. (Now I know some are doing this while getting used to keto, and NO offense there, it's just not for me).

Anyways, I think what it comes down to, is being in fine tune with my body, and taking these whole30s - which are no piece of cake - to really understand what we need and don't -- if that makes sense -- and really, not to be in a hurry to achieve keto or lchf, I want something that I can stick to and feel the optimum benefits for long periods of time rather than drop a bunch of fat and get back to my old habits in the near future.

[whole30determined]

All of us here, who were having this great discussion, had at least one Whole 30 done -- completed.  The ladies were trying to get information about how to best proceed for their futures ~ outside of a Whole 30 ~ whether that included a goal of ketosis, or not.

 

Yep, this is actually my 3rd Whole30 and I have been using my training wheels in between for the past 2 years, and never do well when I off-road.  I've learned anything that is sweet kicks in my sugar dragon, even with fruit and I tend to go to sweet potatoes when I need a sweet-fix.  So I've already learned over the years that I need to limit fruit and really much of anything sweet to keep that dragon at bay, and that's just for me. I know others don't have that problem, but I agree, I've learned to listen to my body and do what I know it needs.   I've really tried to stick to a Whole30 lifestyle as much as I can, so a keto/Whole30 peaked my interest since, for me, it does seem like it would benefit me and keep my dragon way far away.   Thank you for those threads!!! I will follow those, for sure!  

 

And I'm SO much a person that needs knowledge, so I'm definitely going to get that book to educate myself first.  Then, determine what my body is telling me and what it needs, and see if this would be a good way to do a post-Whole30 so I can try to finally live in freedom of food and sugar.  I will finish my Whole30, and read the book while I'm finishing this up, and then decide what works best.   I appreciate that information and those books!  I'm like you, I want to know what I'm doing, not just do it because it's the next-best-thing out there.   

 

The point of discouraging people from locking onto something like keto is that when you get narrowly focussed like that, you stop listening to your body.  It's similar to when folks lock onto calorie counting, they have a "goal" of a certain limit and they discount all the other messages that they are getting.

I agree totally!  As I mentioned, this is my 3rd Whole30 and I have kept pretty much that lifestyle since so this isn't new to me. I just needed a good reset after the holidays and the sugar got the best of me again.  I think it is so important to listen to your body, and I truly do that as much as I can.  Like knowing fruits kick me into sugar cravings, that I need more fat to keep my full between meals, that I LOVE my veggies at breakfast (LOL!), and that I don't like to be hangry.   So, my post-Whole30 was already leaning towards a keto-style, and I thought I'd explore it.   But I agree, I don't recommend doing something that will put me back to counting anything or not listening to my body.  Thanks so much for your feedback!   

[Brewer5]

(and I sometimes wonder if many of those people are ones that are touting crazy tiger blood)

 

We're not going to go to someone who is feeling awesome and thriving on protein, fat and non-starchy veggies and tell them that they simply must consume some starchy veggie in order to ensure that they are not in ketosis. 

 

 

Having experienced it both ways myself, multiple times ~ I would have to agree.

 

I have jokingly said lately that it's like the movie Limitless (have you seen it?) ......  So I went and looked up the movie again.  It's been awhile since I've seen it.  So let me clarify:  For me, it is like the movie Limitless ~ without all of the bad stuff.  

 

From the "most helpful" review:

 

"The downside is that the pill wears off. Not only does one lose the abilities, but they get a little ADD, and throw up like a heroin addict. Too much of the pill causes a Mr. Hyde type of character including blackouts. Edward's supplier is murdered and Edward finds his stash of pills and a wad of cash."

 

 

 

^ Wait, no -- it's not quite like that.

 

 

--------------

 

One thing I have been thinking about since I read your post a little bit ago is this:  

 

When I decided to start researching a ketogenic diet, it was a sole venture.  No one I knew here was doing it, and no one I knew on Kiefer's forum was doing it.  Certainly no one in real life.  

 

I had my own reasons (none of which were fat loss) ~ and I came to my own decision.  In my case, not only was it not influenced by being part of a "group think" mentality -- I actually had to go against the groups I was a part of at the time, in order to do it.  If that is not an individual person, listening to their own body, I don't know what is.

 

So I think what I've realized with this thread is that it does not matter how many times I say the same things over and over and over and over again............  "Listen to your body".  "The tracking is not necessary."  "Just stick to the template."  Etc. etc. etc.  ...  People will hear what they want to hear, and discard the rest.  They will take bits and pieces and mash them all together ~ and it may not end up resembling anything I would recommend at all.  This is not an insult to anyone -- this is probably just human nature.  It happens.

 

I've thought to myself over the past few days:  "How the heck did I get to be the "keto lady" anyway?"  This is what I'm doing ... this is what's working for me, for now ... and I DO feel that this is the best path for me.  I have already been down every other one.  After awhile, you just know.  You just do.  {shrug}  When you are no longer looking for the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing ~ maybe you've found your thing.

 

My thing happens to be what looks like a Keto Whole 30.  I am not saying that is the best path for everyone.  But that IS the best path for me.  And I can't be the only one out there.  (I know for a fact:  I am not.)  So I am happy to see it acknowledged that for some of us, the answer is not -- and may never be -- "more potatoes".  

 

Thank you for not trying to make me eat them.  I really do appreciate that.  

[Brewer5]

I also think that the way the whole30 gets us to move away from tracking macros is awesome and personally never want to go there, never have, and I know it would be dangerous for me. again, going back to knowing and listening to our body and not going to that place where we need to know the percentage of every morsel that goes in our mouths. (Now I know some are doing this while getting used to keto, and NO offense there, it's just not for me).

 

I don't know how many of my posts you have read ~ so I will just clarify here, one more time ~ I do NOT track any of my food, macros, percentages -- and I never have -- for any of my Whole 30's, or any of my stretches of keto.  

 

I've been down that obsessive road in the past, and it makes ME twitchy.      Absolutely nothing natural about it.

 

One thing I hate about recommending Jimmy's book so much is that he is _big_ on tracking and monitoring ~ at least in the beginning ~ and I just don't think it is necessary, at all.  Maybe for folks coming from a SAD-type diet, sure...  But when you are already operating with a Whole 30 mindset -- no.  ...Even then ^ if I really think about it -- I gave my Dad the food lists from Keto Clarity and basically said, "Just eat this stuff." and he lost 30 pounds.  I did warn him that he may feel worse before he felt better.  But overall -- he felt great, couldn't believe his mental clarity......  He never read the book, didn't know a thing about tools or apps, didn't worry or obsess about every sign or symptom -- he just followed the food lists.

 

If we've got a few Whole 30's under our belts...  I mean, it should be pretty easy to tell what foods make you feel good vs. what foods make you feel out of control (yes, I'm looking at your cold sweet potato, lol.)

[Brewer5]

Carolyn, I'm sorry I assumed this was your first Whole 30 -- since your post count is low, and I hadn't really "seen" you before.   I think you should know your body pretty well by now, too.  

[J9er]

I don't know how many of my posts you have read ~ so I will just clarify here, one more time ~ I do NOT track any of my food, macros, percentages -- and I never have -- for any of my Whole 30's, or any of my stretches of keto.

I've been down that obsessive road in the past, and it makes ME twitchy. Absolutely nothing natural about it.

One thing I hate about recommending Jimmy's book so much is that he is _big_ on tracking and monitoring ~ at least in the beginning ~ and I just don't think it is necessary, at all. Maybe for folks coming from a SAD-type diet, sure... But when you are already operating with a Whole 30 mindset -- no. ...Even then ^ if I really think about it -- I gave my Dad the food lists from Keto Clarity and basically said, "Just eat this stuff." and he lost 30 pounds. I did warn him that he may feel worse before he felt better. But overall -- he felt great, couldn't believe his mental clarity...... He never read the book, didn't know a thing about tools or apps, didn't worry or obsess about every sign or symptom -- he just followed the food lists.

If we've got a few Whole 30's under our belts... I mean, it should be pretty easy to tell what foods make you feel good vs. what foods make you feel out of control (yes, I'm looking at your cold sweet potato, lol.)

Yes I know you don't track, and I think that's fantastic. I've seen you reiterate it a few times -- I was referring to those who I have seen tracking and I don't want to seem judgemental at all, that is in no way my intention. But I was just saying for me, that was one thing I love about whole30 and the fact it is discouraged so much, but to see people trying to reach ketosis by tracking rather then feeling their body would be venturing into dangerous territory if it were me is all.

I really enjoy the discussion, and appreciate others going through trial and error, and also appreciate that a lot of people are really just wanting to feel their best. I hope everyone can find their path/ride their own bikes, keto or not.

[SugarcubeOD]

Having experienced it both ways myself, multiple times ~ I would have to agree.

 

I have jokingly said lately that it's like the movie Limitless (have you seen it?) ......  So I went and looked up the movie again.  It's been awhile since I've seen it.  So let me clarify:  For me, it is like the movie Limitless ~ without all of the bad stuff.  

 

From the "most helpful" review:

 

"The downside is that the pill wears off. Not only does one lose the abilities, but they get a little ADD, and throw up like a heroin addict. Too much of the pill causes a Mr. Hyde type of character including blackouts. Edward's supplier is murdered and Edward finds his stash of pills and a wad of cash."

 

 

 

^ Wait, no -- it's not quite like that.

 

 

--------------

 

One thing I have been thinking about since I read your post a little bit ago is this:  

 

When I decided to start researching a ketogenic diet, it was a sole venture.  No one I knew here was doing it, and no one I knew on Kiefer's forum was doing it.  Certainly no one in real life.  

 

I had my own reasons (none of which were fat loss) ~ and I came to my own decision.  In my case, not only was it not influenced by being part of a "group think" mentality -- I actually had to go against the groups I was a part of at the time, in order to do it.  If that is not an individual person, listening to their own body, I don't know what is.

 

So I think what I've realized with this thread is that it does not matter how many times I say the same things over and over and over and over again............  "Listen to your body".  "The tracking is not necessary."  "Just stick to the template."  Etc. etc. etc.  ...  People will hear what they want to hear, and discard the rest.  They will take bits and pieces and mash them all together ~ and it may not end up resembling anything I would recommend at all.  This is not an insult to anyone -- this is probably just human nature.  It happens.

 

I've thought to myself over the past few days:  "How the heck did I get to be the "keto lady" anyway?"  This is what I'm doing ... this is what's working for me, for now ... and I DO feel that this is the best path for me.  I have already been down every other one.  After awhile, you just know.  You just do.  {shrug}  When you are no longer looking for the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing ~ maybe you've found your thing.

 

My thing happens to be what looks like a Keto Whole 30.  I am not saying that is the best path for everyone.  But that IS the best path for me.  And I can't be the only one out there.  (I know for a fact:  I am not.)  So I am happy to see it acknowledged that for some of us, the answer is not -- and may never be -- "more potatoes".  

 

Thank you for not trying to make me eat them.  I really do appreciate that.  

A LOT of us have great respect for you that you have done SO much research into how your own body responds and experimented to see how exactly you feel your absolute best.  I think that does come from a healthy and independent mindset.  Where the mods get twitchy is that we see (and so do you I'm sure) SO MANY people who come to these forums with such a poor relationship with food and their bodies that they're eating an almond for breakfast and licking an apple for lunch... I'm not saying anyone on this particular thread necessarily... 

The concern is that a lot of people think if Whole30 is good, then hacking it up into a calorie counting restricting program must be exponentially better... which we all know it isn't. And while your use of Keto doesn't include restriction or counting, it can easily get there for people with a disordered relationship with food/themselves.

Shanny said it best that we're not going to warpath those folks that are doing well and listening to their bodies and we probably won't come to your house and make you eat a potato... but we do get concerned with folks that are not as adept at listening to their bodies and think this is the fast track to 'skinnyland'... 

 

For people that stumble across this later, we want you to do at least one Whole30 according to the template... we want you to learn how you feel eating whole food BEFORE you start an AIP or a Keto or Intermittent Fasting.  You need a baseline to compare these tweaks to and you can't get that without going through the regular program first.

[Brewer5]

"eating an almond for breakfast and licking an apple for lunch"......  

 

Oh, Lord...  that would be so funny if it weren't so true!

[whole30determined]

Carolyn, I'm sorry I assumed this was your first Whole 30 -- since your post count is low, and I hadn't really "seen" you before.   I think you should know your body pretty well by now, too.  

Yep, my first W30 was back in 2014, and my second in 2015 but I never posted anything....I just read everyone else's posts. I was nervous to post anything but got over my nerves this year! Ha ha ha! I certainly didn't mean to open up some big debate on my question - sorry about that. I'll just keep my comments on to your other thread, because I find both threads so helpful. I'm just glad to finally connect with some other folks that battle with some of the same thing I do. Like sugar, which is why I also love the SDS group!!

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

*Raises hand guiltily* - yes, I AM currently tracking my macros to get an awareness of carbohydrate levels AND to RESTRICT myself to <50g of total carbs per day.  (I am NOT restricting any other macros and I do not have a daily calorie goal/limit, although it has been an eye-opener in terms of how much real-food, non-supplement animal protein I am getting - I never need to go back to shakes or bars again!).  To be clear this is NOT part of a Whole30.  I am making an independent decision to do so for a structured, fixed short-term period (4 weeks).  I don't want to short-change myself in terms of *thinking* that I am eating low-carb and enjoying the benefits of ketosis (whatever those happen to turn out to be - or NOT - for me) if I am NOT actually eating low-carbs!  After the four weeks, no more tracking, just listening to my body.  This may or may not cause me to continue eating low carbohydrates.

 

I am doing this with the mindfulness and awareness of body cues that a full-blown Whole30 gave me.  In the event that I do NOT feel that keto is optimal FOR ME, I will go back to the principles of Whole30 (which I am actually following now): Eat. Assess. Tweak. 

[Brewer5]

Carolyn -- no, you did not cause any debate. This is all stuff that needs to be discussed, as far as I'm concerned. And it's good for everyone to understand where everyone stands. I see it as just good old, healthy conversation.

[J9er]

*Raises hand guiltily* - yes, I AM currently tracking my macros to get an awareness of carbohydrate levels AND to RESTRICT myself to <50g of total carbs per day. (I am NOT restricting any other macros and I do not have a daily calorie goal/limit, although it has been an eye-opener in terms of how much real-food, non-supplement animal protein I am getting - I never need to go back to shakes or bars again!). To be clear this is NOT part of a Whole30. I am making an independent decision to do so for a structured, fixed short-term period (4 weeks). I don't want to short-change myself in terms of *thinking* that I am eating low-carb and enjoying the benefits of ketosis (whatever those happen to turn out to be - or NOT - for me) if I am NOT actually eating low-carbs! After the four weeks, no more tracking, just listening to my body. This may or may not cause me to continue eating low carbohydrates.

I am doing this with the mindfulness and awareness of body cues that a full-blown Whole30 gave me. In the event that I do NOT feel that keto is optimal FOR ME, I will go back to the principles of Whole30 (which I am actually following now): Eat. Assess. Tweak.

I hope I didn't make you feel guilty when I brought up the tracking thing....your plan sounds totally achievable and not like you will obsess over your macros for ever and ever ....and I do GET Tracking in this instance if you want to relate what you're eating to your ketogenic state....I just know that myself personally would not be able to do that because I know that tracking would lead me no where good that's all.

And I barged in on your thread too!!! I reading about everyone's experiences with keto and the sugar dragon etc.....so thanks

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Hey J9er - no, you didn't make me feel guilty (I'd have to CHOOSE to feel guilty - no one can MAKE me feel that way without my choosing!  Lol, lots of boundary-setting there).

 

I've been done a treacherous path with macro-tracking before - it's what led me to the Whole30 in the first place, actually.  The restriction of low fat and low calories led me to binges and I wanted to get away from that. Without macros to "hit" every day, what the heck was I supposed to eat?  Whole30 gave me the answers: real, whole food (and lots of it!) and enough healthy fats to keep me sated.  It's my ease/familiarity with using MFP and my own mindfulness of what macro tracking should NOT be that made me structure my foray into keto/LCHF in this way.

 

I think some people (especially those who don't know a carbohydrate from a peanut) would really benefit from tracking.  Others would do well with just food lists and recommended serving sizes.  Others (the lucky few) don't need either and can just "intuit" their way to ketosis (I think that this would take a LOT of self-experimentation and self-knowledge).  And then there are those people groups who are in ketosis simply because of what's available to them in their environment to eat (a.k.a. Inuit tribes OFF reservations) - NOT most of us!

 

So glad you're enjoying the threads!

 

Cheers,

 

-Lauren (GGG)

[Brewer5]

*Raises hand guiltily*

 

 

FWIW, Lauren... I do understand what you are doing.  Because you are coming from a background of tracking.

 

A benefit so far, as you've said -- is realizing that you can get PLENTY of quality protein from real-food sources.  I went back and forth, back and forth with protein powder -- at one point, even throwing out half a tub of expensive "grass-fed, non-denatured" stuff.  (Where's the "oh crap" smiley?)      I won't buy it again.  I'm over it.  I don't need it.  (The bars were not something I ever got into.)

 

Also ~ I know that it's been a BIG deal for you to not only trust that fat is not going to make you fat... but to shift things all the way over to ketogenic percentages of fats.  That's a huge change, over a short amount of time.  You've come a long way!

 

My hope for you is that you will get to a point where this all just comes naturally, and you don't need to do it anymore.  I hope you can get back to that "Whole 30" mentality, which you found so freeing.

 

I look back on my tracking days with a {shudder} ...  As many here do ... So that is where I am coming from.  Not a place of judgement.  I just want people to be free of it.

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Only ten days left! (Of tracking).  And you'd think I'd be flipping out seeing the number of fat grams coming in at 3-4 x what I was "allowed" on IIFYM.  Instead, I'm proud!  As I said, I make no effort to keep to a certain number of fat grams in a day.  If I'm hungry, I eat more fat and trust that my body is using the fat for fuel.

 

I shudder at the binge-deprive cycle I perpetuated while tracking, but I gained positive information along the way, as well.  You *can* have a cookie here and there and still make progress on your physique (now, whether you can handle that MENTALLY, is a whole other ball game and is the realm of this thread!).  IIFYM actually does treat sugar as sugar as sugar - carbs are carbs!  Now, there's debate about mechanisms in your body and other micronutrients that may or may not accompany those carbs, depending on the source, but it actually helps to see why a Larabar can be just as "dangerous" (in terms of blood sugar response and cravigns) as a candy bar - the macros are the same for the two!  Like you, the experience was worth having, simply to inform your own go-forward decisions AND to provide your experience to other people. 

 

I'll still be reporting on how it's going after I stop tracking, with a heightened focus on awareness/mindfulness since I will need to rely on my body's cues exclusively at not an external "tool" like grams of carbs in MFP.

 

It's nice knowing that Whole30 and/or tracking are "in my back pocket" as tools in case I ever feel myself drifting off course and needing a way to bring my focus back in again.

[whole30determined]

Only ten days left! (Of tracking).  And you'd think I'd be flipping out seeing the number of fat grams coming in at 3-4 x what I was "allowed" on IIFYM.  Instead, I'm proud!  As I said, I make no effort to keep to a certain number of fat grams in a day.  If I'm hungry, I eat more fat and trust that my body is using the fat for fuel.

 

Hi thegoldengrahamgirl!   Would you be willing to share what a typical day looks like for you with your Meals?   I'm just curious on some meal examples of what it looks like. I know my meals will need to be tailored to me and my goals/weight/likes of food/etc, but even just a few "here's my typical breakfast or lunch".  I have the 2 books on their way, Grain Brain and Keto Clarity, but was just curious what a typical day could look like.  

[SimpleNotEasy]

Ahh - it feels good to read and find that the air has been cleared a little here. 

 

So just to jump into the conversation...

 

I lowered my starchy carb intake (primarily from sweet potatoes and butternut squash) recently and by the end of last week, my shower drain was clogged with hair and I was finding hair on my pillow and clothes, etc. So clearly something is going on in my body - this exact thing happened to me in July and August 2015 when I experimented with ketosis. It may have to do with my thyroid or something else. I'm not sure. Last summer, I was including dairy and a few processed foods. I had hoped that this time by sticking with my Whole 30 type of eating (no gluten, dairy or processed foods), it might be different. But it wasn't. 

 

I wanted ketosis to work for me because I have read Jimmy Moore's books, one of Phinney and Volek's books, Grain Brain, Wheat Belly and listened to about 1001 podcasts. The science behind it makes sense to me and I was hoping it would help me to not reawaken the sugar dragon. However, I don't want my hair to fall out any more.

 

So I am accepting what is and moving forward. I think the lowER carb ways that I was eating while on Whole 30 (much lower than the typical SAD, probably lower than the way some people eat on Whole 30) work really well for me. I already know that I need to abstain from sugar and gluten. I already know that I need to keep my servings of fruit low. I already know that I want to have only the very occasional sprinkling of cheese and that I don't want to eat other types of dairy. But I don't seem to have a big problem with having a serving or two of Brussels sprouts, sweet potatoes, or butternut squash. 

 

Eat, assess, tweak. 

 

Stay aware, my friends. 

[SimpleNotEasy]

Carolyn - 

 

A few LCHF meals as examples might be:

 

a hamburger patty (85/15 beef) with broccoli roasted in coconut oil and a green salad with Tessamae's dressing

 

bacon, spinach sauted in the bacon grease and scrambled eggs

 

green salad with Tessamae's dressing, tuna made with homemade mayo (a few T) and green olives, some nuts on the side or mixed in

 

These are all things that I've eaten while on Whole 30, post Whole 30 (just trying not to reawaken the sugar dragon) as well as when I've been aiming for ketosis. Hope they help a little. 

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

Hi thegoldengrahamgirl!   Would you be willing to share what a typical day looks like for you with your Meals?   I'm just curious on some meal examples of what it looks like. I know my meals will need to be tailored to me and my goals/weight/likes of food/etc, but even just a few "here's my typical breakfast or lunch".  I have the 2 books on their way, Grain Brain and Keto Clarity, but was just curious what a typical day could look like.  

Sure!

 

My breakfast is usually two eggs, sunny side up and sautéed greens (Two LARGE handfuls of spinach or kale or green Asian cabbage leaves) cooked in ~1 tbsp. coconut oil.  I don't drink coffee every day, but on the days I do, I also have coffee with a few tbsp. of coconut cream (thicker than coconut milk).  To be clear, this is LESS than the number of eggs I was eating on Whole30 (3) because of course this is NOT Whole30 and keto/LCHF recommends/requires a lower protein intake.  I do not appear to have lost any muscle mass or strength in the past few weeks.

 

Lunch is usually a mixed green salad with a GENEROUS drizzle of extra virgin olive oil (easily 1-2 tbsp.) and balsamic vinegar.  Then I might have chicken salad made with shredded chicken pieces, homemade mayo, chopped onion or celery and seasonings (sea salt, black pepper, curry powder).  Or I make a shrimp curry with shrimp fried in ghee and mixed with full-fat coconut milk and curry powder.  Or leftover meat from the night before.  I might also add 1/4-1/2 avocado if I'm feeling hungry.

 

On the days that I work out, I eat a few bites of cold cooked chicken breast (and sometimes a few green olives) before my workout, and a few bites of cold cooked chicken breast after (following the Whole30 recommendations for lean protein + optional fat for pre-workout and lean protein + optional starchy carbs for post-workout).  I don't usually have starchy carbs after my workout (I do weight-lifting) unless it's a specific reintroduction day (I'm still doing structured Whole30 reintroductions - for example, today I am reintroducing rice, so I will have a small serving of brown rice after my workout - but this has more to do with my Whole30 and NOT to do with keto/LCHF). 

 

Supper might be meatballs with roasted or steamed greens (or broccoli or cauliflower) with ghee or coconut oil, or roasted salmon, or rotisserie chicken.

 

If I feel truly HUNGRY at any point, I "top up" with fats such as coconut cream or a small serving of macadamia nuts (I have to be careful not to go overboard with these) or green olives.

 

Outside of my reintroductions, I'm actually pursuing keto/LCHF with Whole30-compliant foods.  I did have cheese one day (cheese reintroduction) but now that it's gone again, I don't miss it.

 

I hope this helps!

 

Cheers,

 

-Lauren (GGG)

[whole30determined]

Lauren and Sara - that was SO helpful!!!  I was curious how you added the extra fat to you W30 meals and that helps!  It's funny, in a way I'm already doing this type of W30, not meaning to, just because I'm already not doing fruit or starchy veggies.  LOL!  And I up'd my fat last week when I was hungry between meals so.....my meals already look like yours.  That makes me feel good!

I'm gonna ride out this W30 and tweak where I need to to feel my best. Then read up more on Keto Clarity.  But it's good to know I'm probably not too far off if my meals are close to yours.   Thanks for all your input!!!  Love this group! 

[thegoldengrahamgirl]

We had supper with our neighbours last night.  I made oven-roasted salmon fillets, roasted broccoli and risotto.  I was planning to eat the risotto as part of my rice reintroduction, but I sampled it while I was cooking and when it was time to sit down to dinner I realized that I actually didn't like it that much so I didn't take a serving and just enjoyed my salmon and broccoli instead.  The salmon was DELICIOUS and I wanted to go back for seconds, but I paused and considered my fullness level and realized that eating past that point would be over-fullness.

 

I was considering giving myself "permission" to eat the brownies my neighbor brought for dessert (I have a lot of food "rules" and negative value judgments around food and eating choices that I am trying to break free of).  They looked like they were from a boxed mix though, and when I was serving them to my son I noticed that they were hard and dry-feeling so I decided that they just weren't worth it (but I wasn't quite brave enough to taste it to know for sure; I still don't fully trust myself to take just one bite of a food like that and then stop if it's not worth it).  I thought this assessment was relevant to share in the Sugar Dragon Slayers thread!

 

I also poured myself a glass of wine from the bottle they brought (see, I was ready to go whole-hog!), but after a few sips I realized that it was much sweeter than I like my wine, so I just didn't drink any more.  Simply NOT worth it.

 

I also considered that I could have a square of 85% cocoa dark chocolate later if I wanted a "dessert," but I was simply full from supper and fell asleep early.

 

A LOT of WholeLauren wins there!  I am incorporating regular evaluations of hunger levels and trying to eat before I get ravenous, even if it hasn't been 4-5 (or even 3) hours since I last ate (it tells me that my last meal was not big enough and that I need to adjust accordingly).  I know that being able to go the longer durations is good for digestive and hormonal health, and helps to show that insulin is under control when you get the first few weeks of a Whole30 under your belt, but now that I am fat-adapated (probably even ketogenic!), it's currently more important for me to carefully monitor and respond appropriately to hunger and satiety signals.  Eating before I'm ravenous helps me to eat more slowly and actually notice when I'm comfortably full vs. over-full (which happens when I eat too fast).

 

I hope these insights are helpful to others working to slay the Sugar Dragon!

 

Cheers,

 

-Lauren (GGG)