Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I really wish that everybody would understand that all of the monitoring is ~not~ necessary. kirkor has been saying that he is "ketogenic" for over a year now, and I don't think he's ever done any type of monitoring, ever. (maybe urine strips, in the beginning?) I told both Karen and Jess that I really didn't think the Ketonix was necessary -- but they both decided to buy one anyway. I haven't used my blood glucose monitor or my Ketonix since before Christmas. My blood ketone meter and the strips have been here for several days now, and I haven't even gotten them out of their boxes. {shrug} Even when I do -- I can only afford to measure that about once a week, and that is mainly for my own curiosity, as a cool science tool, and maybe to make some minor adjustments based on the number. MAYBE. The scale, the measuring tape, the numbers on our lifts, the weight we throw around in the gym, how long we can hold a plank, how many push-ups or pull-ups we can do, how fast we can run a mile, how many steps we can take in a day...................... Come on. When it really comes down to it, this is ALL a type of "monitoring" we do with ourselves that can be healthy to a certain point -- and really detrimental in some cases. Lauren, I encourage you to please keep experimenting with your own body. We are all here to bounce ideas back and forth, support and encourage one another, and yes I am here for some "tough love" to help you reach the really important goals. To me, that is NOT a certain number on the scale, a certain size of pants, or a PR for the day. It is NOT a certain number of carbs, or ketones circulating in your body. The goal is health. That may not be why you came here, but that IS what you are going to get. Any time the mind strays from that goal -- it's going to take you nowhere good. Brewer, you are the expert here on ketosis so I don't have any input there... But I do regarding the number of lifts, the weight thrown around at the gym, how long we can hold a plank, how many push-ups or pull-ups we can do, how fast we can run a mile, how many steps we can take in a day. I do agree that if these cause discouragement or a negative obsession mentality, then that's not good. However, these measurements instill a great deal of pride in people. Setting a PR at the gym or running a longer distance or a faster mile/minute is something to be proud of. They are accomplishments and ultimate goals for going to the gym and making all of this effort. I don't think anyone should feel bad about measuring success by these goals and standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 The mainstream thinking is GLUT4 is to let glucose in. T2D is when insulin binding to its receptor (which signals GLUT4 to go to the cell membrane) is no longer recognized... thus T2D are hyperinsulinemic and hyperglycemic. The pancreas keeps pumping out the insulin to try to get blood sugar down, not knowing that the muscle cells just don't "hear" the insulin. Thus, it was always thought of as a failure of the GLUT4 signaling pathway in T2D... but maybe this was actually the bodies way of preventing oxidative overdrive of the cell... Our bodies seem to always have these protective mechanisms built in (swelling - take motrin - make it go away! fever - take acetopmetaphin - drop that fever!). Wouldn't it be crazy if all this time we were trying to undo the cell's way of protecting itself from too much glucose?! Laura, I read this post last night when super tired and couldn't wrap my head around it. I needed fresh eyes this morning. And some Crio Bru. Here is what I am understanding. Correct me if I'm wrong... The purpose of the GLUT4 transporter is to get glucose into the cell. That's its job. By insulin attaching to its receptor, it causes this to happen. This is normal. This is how glucose gets from the bloodstream into the cell, where it can be utilized as fuel. The problem comes in when the insulin receptor is not responsive to insulin, because there is an over-abundance of glucose in the bloodstream (meaning there is an over-abundance of insulin), and the insulin receptor becomes down-regulated, disabling the normal function of glucose intake. The protective mechanism of the cell that you are referring to is that the cell does not take in more glucose than can 'fit' inside, because if it were to take more, oxidative stress would result. The way we are sabotaging ourselves (whether from endogenous insulin from the pancreas, or from exogenous insulin from a bottle/syringe) is that we are FORCING more glucose into the cell. This packs the cell with glucose and gets it out of the bloodstream, but does so at the cost of the integrity and functionality of the cell. So, you're saying that we are thinking about things backwards because we are treating the symptoms, not the cause. The symptoms (hyperglycemia and hyperinsulinemia) will never be fixed or controlled if we don't fix the initial problem--carbohydrates and increased insulin. Really interesting and thought-provoking. It's making the wheels turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whole30 Certified Coach littleg Posted January 8, 2016 Author Whole30 Certified Coach Share Posted January 8, 2016 Yep When I was in grad school it was thought that "broken" insulin signally needed to be fixed because sugar needed to get into the cell. No one thought that broken insulin signaling was possibly *good* and *protecting* the cell... (and maybe taking insulin sensitizing agents was making things worse) - that is the different idea from Keto Clarity. I emailed my advisor - I'm curious to see what he has to say. In the US we always treats the symptoms, never the cause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 That is the truth! And you know why--it all comes down to the almighty dollar! There is no money in primary disease prevention. If we 'cure' diabetes by treating the cause, pharmaceutical companies would lose money, and hospitals would lose money for medical and surgical management. Where the money is, that's where medical interventions lie--secondary and tertiary treatment measures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Well, today is Day #43. Still no reintros. I am enjoying finding and creating new recipes for Whole 30 meals! This past week I made chicken salad (who is surprised?), chocolate chili, baked fish with homemade tarter sauce and roasted broccoli, garlic paprika chicken drumsticks with roasted green beans, and *new recipe* homemade egg salad. That was my only new recipe. It was so good! It was all good really. I am looking into what I plan to make next week. Looks like 3 old tried-and-true recipes: Tuscan tuna salad, sloppy joe sauce with zoodles, and Navajo taco chili with shredded lettuce, tomatoes, olives, avocado, and chipotle mayo. My two new recipes for next week will be sushi bowls with cauliflower rice (I'm thinking canned crab will be my protein there), and Melissa J's pad Thai made with sunshine sauce. Come to think of it, I've never made her sunshine sauce, so that's three new recipes! I love Thai food, especially pad Thai, so I am really excited about that one. My husband thinks Thai food smells like a diaper (ha!) so that will be all me. I'm not complaining. I also have a 7 pound pork butt in my fridge right now. I might make nomnompaleo' slow cooker pig recipe and freeze quite a bit of it! I bought it because it was 1/2 price--$11 for 7 pounds! I hope my husband will eat some. Otherwise I'm gonna be living on pork for a few weeks! Lauren, when you make your cauliflower rice do you season it with anything special? I am going by this recipe but don't have her exact seasoning spices: http://nomnompaleo.com/post/1626071845/another-simpler-version-of-cauliflower-rice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whole30 Certified Coach littleg Posted January 8, 2016 Author Whole30 Certified Coach Share Posted January 8, 2016 That is the truth! And you know why--it all comes down to the almighty dollar! There is no money in primary disease prevention. If we 'cure' diabetes by treating the cause, pharmaceutical companies would lose money, and hospitals would lose money for medical and surgical management. Where the money is, that's where medical interventions lie--secondary and tertiary treatment measures. This is why it is called practicing "medicine". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 More pearls from "Why we get fat"... As a personal example, when I ended my December Whole 30 I realized that part of my success came from eating healthy Whole 30 foods, but perhaps even more important were the foods that I cut out from my diet (sugar, sweets, processed foods, diet sodas.) I found that the avoidance of these unhealthy foods was as important, if not more, as eating healthy real foods. This is taken from Taubes' book, from the chapter 'Why diets succeed and fail': "those who lose fat on a diet do so because of what they are not eating--the fattening carbohydrates--not because of what they are eating." And from later in this same chapter..."When calorie-restricted diets fail, as they typically do [...], the reason is that they restrict something other than the foods that make us fat. They restrict fat and protein, which have no long-term effect on insulin and fat deposition but are required for energy and for the rebuilding of cells and tissues. They starve the entire body of nutrients and energy, or semi-starve it, rather than targeting the fat tissue specifically. Any weight that might be lost can be maintained only as long as the dieter can withstand the semi-starvation, and even then the fat cells will be working to recoup the fat they're losing, just as the muscle cells are trying to obtain protein to rebuild and maintain their function, and the total amount of energy the dieter expends will be reduced to compensate." This reduced energy expenditure is basically a reduced metabolism. By not eating enough calories, we are sabotaging our efforts to lose fat. When in semi-starvation mode, our metabolisms compensate by decreasing. We hold onto the fat as a primal survival mechanism, and adapt to the decreased calorie consumption. So, we are semi-starving, we are not feeding our muscle cells, we are adapting to this new decreased caloric allotment, we are not burning fat, and any decrease in weight will only be maintained as long as we maintain this reduced level of functioning. Sounds great...but, I think I'll keep eating fat and protein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SusanB. Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hey, ladies - just wanted to thank you for having this out there where the rest of us can see it. I won't plunge into my whole sordid tale, but the summary is that I am at once trying to and afraid of slaying the sugar dragon once and for all. I appreciate being able to follow the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hey, ladies - just wanted to thank you for having this out there where the rest of us can see it. I won't plunge into my whole sordid tale, but the summary is that I am at once trying to and afraid of slaying the sugar dragon once and for all. I appreciate being able to follow the thread. You can share your tale here if you want. We are here to help each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleNotEasy Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Hi Susan B. - welcome! Like Ali said, feel free to join us & tell your story. We are all just figuring out how to walk out the truth we discovered on the Whole 30 - that sugar is pretty much enemy #1 to long term good health. Ok girls - here is Austin, we have these trees called "cedar" trees, but they are actually mountain juniper. Anyway, at this time of year, they start spewing pollen out into the atmosphere. Today it is so bad that there is a haze over the city. I went for a walk with my puppy girl & now my eyes are itching beyond belief. Yuck yuck yuck. On a positive note, I'm noticing that without allowing any sugar in my life, it is so easy to keep resisting it. Like eating Whole 30 style is simply second nature & im at SUCH peace when I don't have that internal debate happening all the time. I feel so great. Very grateful!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Again, from "Why we get fat": "we can lose weight by using any number of things that aren't good for us--cigarettes and cocaine, for instance--but that doesn't mean any of us should do so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleNotEasy Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Ali - your recipes for next week sound tasty. I really like Melissa Joulwan's Paleo Pad Thai. Yum. Her sunshine sauce is delicious and really makes the dish. But I don't find it "food without brakes." Maybe cause it's savory? Anyway, it's YUMMY! Thanks for sharing the quotes from Why We Get Fat. I've read it, but it's been awhile, so I'm enjoying reading a few highlights from you. Laura - I'll be really interested to hear how your advisor responds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I have a question about during long run fueling with carbs. I've been trying to fuel my long runs with unsweetened applesauce and *choke* carrots. I'm still going to do my protein/fat pre-WO meal as usual...probably 2 hard-boiled eggs with homemade mayo. After hearing from Laura, I'm going to try the salted dates during my 14-mile long run tomorrow. So here's my question...usually I eat at the :50 mark and then again around the 1:30-2:00 mark depending on how I'm feeling, and then I'm done before I need a third meal. On average I run a :11 mile on my long runs (I'm just trying to finish!) so I anticipate tomorrow taking about 2 1/2 hours. That's 2 during workout meals if I eat at :50 and 2:00, and then I'll go straight into my post-WO meal when I get home at the 2:30 mark. One pouch of applesauce has 13g carbs. I have been eating one at each long run eating time. One medjool date has 18g carbs. Are you telling me that I can have 1 (or even less) date each at the :50 and 2:00 marks to maintain the same level of circulating glucose to fuel my workouts compared with the applesauce pouches? So, two dates for a 2 1/2 hour run? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Dang it! Seriously you guys, I'm fairly certain Taubes is going to tell me to give up my beloved sweet potato. I think that's why I am dragging my feet a bit on finishing this book. The more I read, the more it makes sense to eat lower carb with more fat and moderate protein. It's science. When people say that the fat just 'melts away effortlessly' on paleo diets, I think this is what they're talking about. I'm wondering how this will go for someone very active and training for a marathon though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleNotEasy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ali - it's so counter everything we were taught about nutrition in the past, right? Especially sports nutrition. I was perusing Keto Clarity today and saw this which I thought might interest you. "Ben Greenfield, an elite triathlete who uses ketosis as a means for optimizing his athletic performance, says there are three primary reasons for entering a state of ketosis: 1) the metabolic superiority of fats as a fuel; 2) the mental enhancement that takes place with adequate ketone levels; and 3) the greater health and longevity that come from controlling blood sugar levels naturally in the presence of higher ketones." I don't know any specifics on HOW this guy does it. I did see that he has some fitness podcasts on iTunes, though so you might want to look into those and it looks like he's written some books, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Had dinner at a nice restaurant with several of my co-workerstonight. Ordered the salad sans cheese and made sure to ask if the dressing had dairy in it. Got the steak and double mixed veggies with no fat or oils. Forgot to ask if the dressing contained sugar. Doh! Oh well, I may have ingested some sugar with the salad. It was gonna happen sooner or later! My boss bought everyone either a drink or dessert, and since I don't drink alcohol I brought home a piece of tiramisu. I am thinking of eating it and enjoying the heck out of it. It's only one slice, so it's not like I would eat an entire sheet cake pan of it or anything. It's late right now, so I am going to go to bed shortly and possibly eat it tomorrow. If I eat it right now, I KNOW that I will be dehydrated and not sleep well tonight. That's what sugar does to me. And I'm already a little bloated after having some cashews with lunch earlier, so I don't need to add insult to injury. I don't think I need to be talked out of the dessert, but I will revisit whether I want to eat this tomorrow. Knowing what I know about sugar and carbs now, I'm just not sure about it... Thoughts, Slayers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer5 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Knowing what I know about sugar and carbs now, I'm just not sure about it... Thoughts, Slayers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brewer5 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Brewer, you are the expert here on ketosis so I don't have any input there... But I do regarding the number of lifts, the weight thrown around at the gym, how long we can hold a plank, how many push-ups or pull-ups we can do, how fast we can run a mile, how many steps we can take in a day. I do agree that if these cause discouragement or a negative obsession mentality, then that's not good. However, these measurements instill a great deal of pride in people. Setting a PR at the gym or running a longer distance or a faster mile/minute is something to be proud of. They are accomplishments and ultimate goals for going to the gym and making all of this effort. I don't think anyone should feel bad about measuring success by these goals and standards. And I am not trying to make anyone "feel bad". What I am doing, is encouraging everyone to listen to what their bodies are telling them. We have ALL pushed through a workout that our bodies did NOT want to finish. Don't anyone tell me you haven't -- I know better. "You can't bullshit a bullshitter" -- that's what my dad always says. I am having an internal conflict about my discussions on this forum recently -- because the best resource I have to point people to regarding a ketogenic diet is Keto Clarity, and he talks about measuring and monitoring -- a lot. This is at odds with what I believe is overall most healthy. The people who come to me, the people who ask questions -- I encourage them to read the book, but I encourage people to find a Whole 30 / ketogenic balance. Unfortunately, there are some folks who are intent on measuring, weighing, following rules and guidelines....... "We love DATA, we love to crunch numbers", they say. Well, shizzzzzz......... this is not the path I want to encourage. Our bodies are giving us feedback all the time. Constantly. We have to learn to listen to it -- and not just that, we have to understand what it means. You can "listen" to Spanish all day long, but if you don't understand Spanish -- a lot of good that is going to do you. I don't know if I can adequately explain how much I understand and can relate to each one of your situations. I do understand the boost of confidence from a PR... Oh, I have SO been there.... and I also know that the next step is more weight.... less time... more time... further, faster, more........ And these goals are healthy to a certain point, and really detrimental in some cases. Just like I said. Sometimes, we have other goals in life -- and these ^ goals get in the way of them. But my main point in that post was about the monitoring with ketosis. I just don't feel like it is necessary to say "I will go high fat and low carb some day, when I have some tools". I don't think the tools are necessary. I think it is normal and expected to go through some "carb flu" -- and beyond that, if you feel good -- it's working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Brewer, first of all you're not allowed to have a full day off again. I missed you yesterday. I hope your son had a great birthday! Second...I agree with everything you said. I wonder if the people who are the number lovers are just wanting them for the initial data to MAKE SURE they are following keto guidelines. It's such a different and strange concept (but becoming less strange the more I read) that maybe these people are trying to crunch numbers until they are satisfied that their meals are promoting ketosis. I would hate to think that every day had to be input into MFP in order to ensure a certain percentage of macros. I understand why you are not promoting this or other measurements. I agree that we should be able to listen to our bodies. It is easy to ignore or override those internal signals if we choose to, but we know they are there waiting to be listened to! Doing the Whole 30 definitely helps us listen to our bodies and be aware and mindful of how we feel. We are literally experiments of one. It's great. Without tools or measurements, we can eat a meal, determine how we feel, assess and be mindful, and based on how we feel and perform, we can tweak our next meal. Some of the best advice I got during the start of this last Whole 30 was "Eat. Assess. Tweak." It was simple, but works. This is, of course, to determine the EFFECT of a food. But the mindfulness that we have now can help us tweak what we eat even BEFORE a meal, because we know the aftermath of our decision and can personally determine if the effects are worth the foods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoldengrahamgirl Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 ---And from later in this same chapter..."When calorie-restricted diets fail, as they typically do [...], the reason is that they restrict something other than the foods that make us fat. They restrict fat and protein, which have no long-term effect on insulin and fat deposition but are required for energy and for the rebuilding of cells and tissues. They starve the entire body of nutrients and energy, or semi-starve it, rather than targeting the fat tissue specifically. Any weight that might be lost can be maintained only as long as the dieter can withstand the semi-starvation, and even then the fat cells will be working to recoup the fat they're losing, just as the muscle cells are trying to obtain protein to rebuild and maintain their function, and the total amount of energy the dieter expends will be reduced to compensate." This reduced energy expenditure is basically a reduced metabolism. By not eating enough calories, we are sabotaging our efforts to lose fat. When in semi-starvation mode, our metabolisms compensate by decreasing. We hold onto the fat as a primal survival mechanism, and adapt to the decreased calorie consumption. So, we are semi-starving, we are not feeding our muscle cells, we are adapting to this new decreased caloric allotment, we are not burning fat, and any decrease in weight will only be maintained as long as we maintain this reduced level of functioning. Sounds great...but, I think I'll keep eating fat and protein. Yup, this was me in IIFYM. Hence all of the nut/coconut butter binges. My brain & body were screaming at me. I knew I had depressed my metabolism and I came to Whole30 looking for a re-set, among other things, and got a WHOLE lot more - thanks to you ladies and the moderators. Hey, ladies - just wanted to thank you for having this out there where the rest of us can see it. I won't plunge into my whole sordid tale, but the summary is that I am at once trying to and afraid of slaying the sugar dragon once and for all. I appreciate being able to follow the thread. Hi Susan! So glad to have you hear! I do relate to being "afraid of slaying the sugar dragon" (or at least, I think I do. In my world that means, "wait? No sweets - EVER?"). I also have a "fear of success." Again, from "Why we get fat": "we can lose weight by using any number of things that aren't good for us--cigarettes and cocaine, for instance--but that doesn't mean any of us should do so." I'll add IIFYM to that list! Haha! I don't regret that I did it, mind you. I gained some useful info and perspectives (and a GREAT body for at least a little while - vanity, thy name is woman) - I just have to hang onto those and let go of the rest. Ali, your meals sound AMAZING! I need to step up my game and do more recipes. Re: cauliflower rice (I didn't look at the link you posted but FYI I always steam the florets first, drain and let cool slightly and THEN rice - seems WAY easier to me than ricing first and then steaming, in terms of the ease of draining the liquid), I just season depending on what I'm serving it with. For sushi, I throw in the spicy mayo, coconut aminos (now that I've got them) and sea salt. If I'm using it as a base for pasta sauce, I season with basil, oregano and parsley. If I'm using it as a base for a stir-fry, I'll put in a sprinkle of ginger, and maybe some *sesame seeds and coconut aminos. (*I'm doing well with treat nuts and seeds as condiments and not foods. Other than macadamia nuts. Those are still a food). Re: tiramisu - if it's still going to be really good the next day, I might try a bite to see if it's honest-to-goodness really and truly worth it. But if it's not, no shame in chucking it. If it IS worth it, enjoy the heck out of it! But don't eat it JUST BECAUSE you told yourself you were "allowed" to eat it. Like you say, you don't have the remaining cake to eat. But just be on the lookout for increased cravings and avoid having the extra piece of fruit or serving of sweet potato that might arise. This is where our paths to reintroduction differ (because you and I as individuals differ) - tiramisu has a whole HOST of off-plan ingredients all together, so you won't know which one causes what. But you will know how tiramisu OVERALL makes you feel. And that might mean that the next piece is decidedly NOT worth or IS decidedly worth it. Because I can't help myself, I baked one more SWYPO goodie: baked pumpkin custard. Sweetened only with bananas but spiced with pumpkin pie spices, it was sort of like a crustless pumpkin pie (and it means there is NO MORE NUT BUTTER in my house AT ALL). Lots of eggs and coconut milk, too, so it was brimming with healthy fats. I had 3 bites and decided it was decidedly NOT worth it. I also made organic raw white chocolate with my son. It was a fun project for us to do together, and he started narrating what we were doing just like the Youtube video we were following for the instructions. I wasn't even tempted. I might as well have been making candles or soap (probably because raw cacao butter tastes like candlewax - eww). As far as lowering your carb intake for optimal health - are you SURE you WANT to do this while right in the middle of your marathon training? I'm not saying that you can't successfully fuel yourself in a lower-carb way, but you're also on a path that is making you feel really great (of course, maybe you'll find out that there is an extra level of greatness waiting for you - I sense from Brewer that there COULD be - impossible for any one of us to know until we try it ourselves). But if you're really doing it in the name of optimal health, need I point out that training for AND racing a marathon are NOT optimal for health? (Neither is the volume/intensity of lifting I do). Most competitive sports are NOT optimal for health, in terms of overall longevity and wellness. Gentler forms of exercise are probably most beneficial: walking, water aerobics. Just some food for thought. Cheers, -Lauren (GGG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thegoldengrahamgirl Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 And I am not trying to make anyone "feel bad". What I am doing, is encouraging everyone to listen to what their bodies are telling them. We have ALL pushed through a workout that our bodies did NOT want to finish. Don't anyone tell me you haven't -- I know better. "You can't bullshit a bullshitter" -- that's what my dad always says. I am having an internal conflict about my discussions on this forum recently -- because the best resource I have to point people to regarding a ketogenic diet is Keto Clarity, and he talks about measuring and monitoring -- a lot. This is at odds with what I believe is overall most healthy. The people who come to me, the people who ask questions -- I encourage them to read the book, but I encourage people to find a Whole 30 / ketogenic balance. Unfortunately, there are some folks who are intent on measuring, weighing, following rules and guidelines....... "We love DATA, we love to crunch numbers", they say. Well, shizzzzzz......... this is not the path I want to encourage. Our bodies are giving us feedback all the time. Constantly. We have to learn to listen to it -- and not just that, we have to understand what it means. You can "listen" to Spanish all day long, but if you don't understand Spanish -- a lot of good that is going to do you. I don't know if I can adequately explain how much I understand and can relate to each one of your situations. I do understand the boost of confidence from a PR... Oh, I have SO been there.... and I also know that the next step is more weight.... less time... more time... further, faster, more........ And these goals are healthy to a certain point, and really detrimental in some cases. Just like I said. Sometimes, we have other goals in life -- and these ^ goals get in the way of them. But my main point in that post was about the monitoring with ketosis. I just don't feel like it is necessary to say "I will go high fat and low carb some day, when I have some tools". I don't think the tools are necessary. I think it is normal and expected to go through some "carb flu" -- and beyond that, if you feel good -- it's working. I think this post has applicability to ALL of us, but in some ways is tailor-made for me (especially because I balked at attempting LCHF without monitoring tools). I do have to decide whether maintaining my lifting schedule and being able to be as strong as the guys I lift with AND be lean, etc. etc. is more important than the goal of increased mental clarity and health from ketosis (assuming the former and the latter are mutually exclusive - they may not be). I also have to do the balancing act of whether attempting to achieve ketosis with constant concern about carb intake would lead to such anxiety and a sense of restriction for ME that it would cause more harm mentally than good. That concern might dissipate as I move forward and just naturally *know* intuitively how many carbs to eat to maintain ketosis and don't crave more than that. I had a full head of lettuce ready to go with my lunch (egg salad made with 2 HB eggs & mayo, 4 large green olives and greens sauteed in coconut oil) and before I ate all of the lettuce I got a "stop eating lettuce" signal from my body. I'm starting to be more and more okay with "closing the door" on many SAD foods and even Paleo sweeteners. I'm just not sure yet whether I want to "close the door" on things like fruit and starchy carbs. I don't really know where a ketosis path leads. Do you just eat ketogenically forever? Or is it the kind of thing you can do for a few months, and then move away from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Regarding the tiramisu from last night... I got home from dinner late and know that eating something sweet right before bedtime is a BAD idea. Sugar dehydrates me and makes me sleep terribly, so it was actually easy not to eat the dessert right before bedtime. Besides, I needed more time to think about the worth-it factor. I still remember the effects that sugar had on me in the past—the dehydration, the poor sleep, the hangover, the negative psychological effects including regret and increased cravings and the detrimental ‘what the hell’ attitude, the extreme fullness, the feeling of lack of control, etc. I vividly remember all of the negative aspects of sugar. One further reason to refrain from sugar last night (which I didn’t think about until this morning) was that it would decrease my running performance today. Saturdays are typically my long run days and I would have felt regretful if eating one dessert would have made me feel bad during a 14-mile run. Or perhaps I would be feeling so bad that I would not have felt like running at all. Glad I avoided that possibility! I wrote this down before I went to sleep, despite how tired and not-thinking-straight I was: “I should throw the tiramisu away. Not worth it. Not special.” This made me think of the Whole 30 Guide to Off-Roading flowchart. I may have posted this elsewhere on this thread, but it’s so helpful I’m going to include it here again. http://whole30.com/downloads/off-roading.pdf Even though I have already decided that the negative physical and psychological impacts of sugar are not worth the aftermath, I decided to use this flowchart to confirm my decision to refrain. Walk through it with me, if you want. 1. Do you have a specific desire for a particular food? (Answer: Actually NO, I don’t. This dessert was given to me for free. It is nothing I would have bought for myself and nothing that I have been thinking about eating. àDon’t eat it.) BUT, say I had answered yes, simply because I wanted dessert and now I have one in my fridge that looks mighty tasty. Onto Step #2… 2. It is going to be incredibly delicious, special, or significant? (Answer: Once again, no. This is not a significant or special dessert. It may be delicious, but so are the Whole 30 foods that I GET to eat on a daily basis. What makes this unhealthy dessert more delicious than the foods that are delicious, healthy, and make me feel good? àDon’t eat it.) BUT, say I had answered yes, because the dessert looks delicious. Let’s go to #3… 3. Is it gonna mess you up or make you feel like junk? (Answer: Yes, physically and psychologically. This is such an important question, and is an understatement. àThis leads to another question of “Knowing it’s gonna mess you up, is it still worth it?” Answer: If anyone asks me twice about something, it’s because it’s probably something to think about, so my answer would be no àDon’t eat it.) You see where this is going. Every single answer that I gave leads to “Don’t eat it.” I don’t have a particular desire for it. Sure, I would like to eat it but why? Because it looks yummy is not a good enough reason to eat something that I know is going to mess me up. I have decided to follow my own advice, which coincides with the advice on this flowchart (thankfully!) and refrain from eating this dessert. If I had come to the conclusion that it is worth it because it’s tiramisu in Italy or pound cake from my Grandmother or my favorite cheesecake from the Cheesecake Factory then I would eat/indulge, deal with the consequences, and move on. But to eat something that I don’t really desire just because it was given to me and is in my fridge is not a good enough reason to eat it. There are unhealthy foods constantly available for free that I avoid with ease at work, even though I bet they would be yummy. Why should this situation be any different, just because the dessert is from a fancy restaurant? Besides, tiramisu is more than sugar. It also contains dairy (mascarpone) and gluten (ladyfingers.) My insides would be so mad at me today. Thanks for the free dessert but I’m sticking to my normal healthy foods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 As far as lowering your carb intake for optimal health - are you SURE you WANT to do this while right in the middle of your marathon training? I'm not saying that you can't successfully fuel yourself in a lower-carb way, but you're also on a path that is making you feel really great (of course, maybe you'll find out that there is an extra level of greatness waiting for you - I sense from Brewer that there COULD be - impossible for any one of us to know until we try it ourselves). But if you're really doing it in the name of optimal health, need I point out that training for AND racing a marathon are NOT optimal for health? (Neither is the volume/intensity of lifting I do). Most competitive sports are NOT optimal for health, in terms of overall longevity and wellness. Gentler forms of exercise are probably most beneficial: walking, water aerobics. Just some food for thought. I posted this question/concern in the Whole 30 for Athletes forum to get some moderator feedback on low-carb, high-cardio and got some good info from jmcbn. http://forum.whole30.com/topic/33171-low-carb-lots-of-cardio-healthy/#entry361045 Long story short, I'm sticking with my carbs for now despite what the research, science, and literature say about carbs, blood sugar and insulin. After my marathon, I may revisit this and rethink my carb intake. For now though, I am rethinking my during-long-run meals (trying to decrease the fructose factor, and focus on glucose instead) and save my starchy carbs for later in the day, after I work out (instead of eating them for M1, when I have not depleted my glycogen stores yet.) By changing those two things, I should reap some additional benefits that I have not been seeing yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alisonlcarver Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ali, your meals sound AMAZING! I need to step up my game and do more recipes. Re: cauliflower rice (I didn't look at the link you posted but FYI I always steam the florets first, drain and let cool slightly and THEN rice - seems WAY easier to me than ricing first and then steaming, in terms of the ease of draining the liquid), I just season depending on what I'm serving it with. For sushi, I throw in the spicy mayo, coconut aminos (now that I've got them) and sea salt. If I'm using it as a base for pasta sauce, I season with basil, oregano and parsley. If I'm using it as a base for a stir-fry, I'll put in a sprinkle of ginger, and maybe some *sesame seeds and coconut aminos. (*I'm doing well with treat nuts and seeds as condiments and not foods. Other than macadamia nuts. Those are still a food). Thanks for the cauliflower rice info! The nomnompaleo recipe includes sautéing onions and the riced cauliflower together in a frying pan, but no steaming. Interesting that you steam! I bet that makes the rice very tender. I wanted to buy some canned crab meat to use as a sushi bowl topper, but they all contained preservatives! Ew. I bought some canned mini shrimp instead--I'm totally copying you! Cauliflower rice, cucumber shreds, avocado bites, tiny shrimp (yes, the whole can!), and a generous drizzle of spicy mayonnaise. Sign me up! I love macadamia nuts! They are yummy and aren't they the healthiest nuts because they contain fewer PUFA's compared to other nuts? PUFA--that's fun to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleNotEasy Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 But the mindfulness that we have now can help us tweak what we eat even BEFORE a meal, because we know the aftermath of our decision and can personally determine if the effects are worth the foods. This could apply regarding the tiramasu. Keep us posted on how your 14-miler goes today & what you discover regarding your fuel. You go!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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