PamH

I'm back! This time with (maybe) an autoimmune disease. :/

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Hello (again),

 

I was an active member of the Whole30 forum until a year ago.  I'm back.

 

I have been dabbling with vegetarian (nearly vegan) over the past 6-12 months after reading The China Study.  I cut out dairy a few years ago because it caused hot flashes (I'm 50).  I'm am a hard core chocoholic. 

 

About 2 months ago I started having pain and stiffness that I could not really explain.  At first I thought it was due to my scoliosis and extreme use of the treadmill.  But, it is more.  After talking to my mother, who had polymyalgia rheumatica (PMR) in her 50s, I decided I needed to get checked out.  So, tomorrow I'm off to see my primary to ask for ESR and CRP blood tests to measure inflammation.  I know my CR-P was very low only 3 years ago when I had my thyroid checked, so any elevation will be somewhat recent.  I will probably be referred to a rheumatologist.

 

So, I'm back.  I've started AIP, but am struggling with the reintroduction of animal proteins.  Can I really not eat eggs?  This is going to be really difficult, but the alternative is long term prednisone if I indeed have PMR or Giant Cell Arteritis.  I might have to take the Pred if I have the latter, since losing eyesight is a possibility.

 

I assume many here became involved after a diagnosis of some type of arthritis, so I hope to get some feedback.  Were you able to occasionally eat things like chocolate or grains/legumes without setbacks?  PMR does go into remission, or is cured, after a few years for many.  My mom, now 78, has been disease free for 15 years and takes no medication.  

 

Also, who here believes stress triggers arthritis?  Probably a stupid question.   ;)  I've already developed atypical migraines due to life stressors (marriage and raising a child with Autism).  

 

I'll be reading and posting a lot I expect.  Thanks for listening.  ~Pam

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So, I'm back.  I've started AIP, but am struggling with the reintroduction of animal proteins.  Can I really not eat eggs?  This is going to be really difficult, but the alternative is 

Hi Pam, welcome back!  What exactly about the reintroduction of animal proteins are you struggling with? The science? The texture/taste after being off of it? The ethical dilemma?

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Hi Pam, welcome back!  What exactly about the reintroduction of animal proteins are you struggling with? The science? The texture/taste after being off of it? The ethical dilemma?

The belief that animal proteins cause health problems (cancers)... what The China Study lays out.  I actually like meat.

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I'm not totally educated enough to discuss it with you, but there are some serious flaws in that study that are worth at least researching.  :)

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I'm not totally educated enough to discuss it with you, but there are some serious flaws in that study that are worth at least researching.   :)

Well, my desire to avoid Prednisone, and my love of a good rib eye will probably lead to me at least give AIP a good try.  I'll start reading through the forum.  Is there an AIP section to the Whole30 forum or is an entirely different site?  TIA

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The belief that animal proteins cause health problems (cancers)... what The China Study lays out.  I actually like meat.

 

The China Study is scientifically woeful and is actually used in case studies of how NOT to do a scientific study these days, with data cherry picking the greatest flaw. If all your understandings are based on data and the data has been falsified to meet an agenda, it's not science, it's delusion and if published it's getting pretty close to outright deception.

 

We know for a fact that eating cholesterol is only part of a person's cholesterol profile, as humans manufacture their own cholesterol and this is just one of the facts that clearly debunks findings in this study.

 

As a note, the book was first published back in 2006, which now makes it 10 years old.

 

http://chriskresser.com/rest-in-peace-china-study/

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

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Well, my desire to avoid Prednisone, and my love of a good rib eye will probably lead to me at least give AIP a good try.  I'll start reading through the forum.  Is there an AIP section to the Whole30 forum or is an entirely different site?  TIA

 

I'm nearly completely off Prednisone (my goal for this year is zero) and I've been able to achieve this just with the Whole30, no AIP required.

I've also completely gotten rid of my arthritis with the elimination of grains and dairy.

 

Is there something you react to that's making you do the AIP over a regular Whole30?

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Well, my desire to avoid Prednisone, and my love of a good rib eye will probably lead to me at least give AIP a good try.  I'll start reading through the forum.  Is there an AIP section to the Whole30 forum or is an entirely different site?  TIA

There's no AIP section precisely but if you cruise around the Whole30 with Medical Issues part, you'll find lots of discussions about it. Or just refine a Google search to show you only forum hits for AIP.

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The China Study is scientifically woeful and is actually used in case studies of how NOT to do a scientific study these days, with data cherry picking the greatest flaw. If all your understandings are based on data and the data has been falsified to meet an agenda, it's not science, it's delusion and if published it's getting pretty close to outright deception.

 

We know for a fact that eating cholesterol is only part of a person's cholesterol profile, as humans manufacture their own cholesterol and this is just one of the facts that clearly debunks findings in this study.

 

As a note, the book was first published back in 2006, which now makes it 10 years old.

 

http://chriskresser.com/rest-in-peace-china-study/

http://rawfoodsos.com/2010/07/07/the-china-study-fact-or-fallac/

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

I know.  I went back and forth on the studies shown, and I'm very aware of the benefits of cholesterol (I had too low cholesterol at one point).  I do believe casein is no good for my body, but I am going to add the meats back in.  I was all-in Paleo several years ago.  As you can see, I am indecisive.  I do need to stay low histamine, too.   ;)  I'm just searching...

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I'm nearly completely off Prednisone (my goal for this year is zero) and I've been able to achieve this just with the Whole30, no AIP required.

I've also completely gotten rid of my arthritis with the elimination of grains and dairy.

 

Is there something you react to that's making you do the AIP over a regular Whole30?

I really do not know what I react to, in particular, so I thought doing AIP would be a way to figure that out.   Go cold turkey and then add things back in? I've done the Whole30 before, but didn't have these symptoms to deal with at the time.  This PMR stuff is all new to me in the past few months.  

 

It might be all in my head, but 2 days in and I feel better.  The aching in my legs is about 50% diminished.  The one sided scalp tenderness and temple ache is still there, though.  I've had that for close to a year now.  I guess I've been inflamed... 

 

My goal is AIP.  My 'cheats' or 'slip-ups will be Whole30.

 

I head to San Francisco next week for a long weekend with a friend.  THAT'S going to be fun.  She is a typical SAD diet and can't wait to drink wine.  Sigh

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Just some perspective from an outsider looking in. You were all in paleo until 6-12 months ago but you didn't have these symptoms.  In the last 6-12 months you've been veggie/vegan, presumably using some sort of vegetarian protein sources (like dairy, beans, lentils, soy).  Now you have these symptoms.

 

I wonder if you just do a regular Whole30 and see what clears up? Could be overload and inflammation caused by known inflammers (like dairy, soy etc)?

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Just some perspective from an outsider looking in. You were all in paleo until 6-12 months ago but you didn't have these symptoms.  In the last 6-12 months you've been veggie/vegan, presumably using some sort of vegetarian protein sources (like dairy, beans, lentils, soy).  Now you have these symptoms.

 

I wonder if you just do a regular Whole30 and see what clears up? Could be overload and inflammation caused by known inflammers (like dairy, soy etc)?

Exactly what I am thinking... I added the legumes, grains and soy back in over the past 6 months.  Sigh.  I triggered the inflammation; possibly triggered a disease.  Ugh

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Stay positive, Pam, it could just be a lot of inflammation. As you said yourself, your mom is symptom free so if this is an inflammatory disease and you reduce the inflammation then the disease is just.....a word, right?

 

Sugar can also be highly inflammatory so keep in mind that you may want to come to mental peace with maybe having to divorce chocolate.

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I was also re-exposed to Epstein Barr Virus after my daughter contracted mono this fall.  I really, really believe this might have been my environmental trigger... with my inflammatory diet complicating things.  

 

I had mono about 28 years ago.  

 

The plot thickens.

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Stay positive, Pam, it could just be a lot of inflammation. As you said yourself, your mom is symptom free so if this is an inflammatory disease and you reduce the inflammation then the disease is just.....a word, right?

 

Sugar can also be highly inflammatory so keep in mind that you may want to come to mental peace with maybe having to divorce chocolate.

You are very correct.  I have a lot of factors to consider here.  I will get the ESR and CR-P blood tests just to be sure.    

 

Chocolate and I do need to divorce.  Dang, and I thought maybe I would be divorcing my husband in 2016.   :huh:  That's an entirely different set of stressors.  It's complicated.  

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I would do a normal Whole30 Pam and see how you feel. You sound like you've got a lot on your plate and if you don't *need* the AIP, it's a lot of extra work.

 

I have a genetic disorder or two, but you are not your disease (or even your genes). My goal is to be the healthiest I can be and while some things take me a little longer than others, so far it's all been going great, I'm nearly medication free, am free of arthritis and a bunch of other health issues that used to plague me daily.

 

If you can afford it, you might want to do some pre tests before Whole30 and then post tests after (before Reintroductions) and look at your numbers.

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I would do a normal Whole30 Pam and see how you feel. You sound like you've got a lot on your plate and if you don't *need* the AIP, it's a lot of extra work.

 

I have a genetic disorder or two, but you are not your disease (or even your genes). My goal is to be the healthiest I can be and while some things take me a little longer than others, so far it's all been going great, I'm nearly medication free, am free of arthritis and a bunch of other health issues that used to plague me daily.

 

If you can afford it, you might want to do some pre tests before Whole30 and then post tests after (before Reintroductions) and look at your numbers.

I had CRP, SED and basic blood panels run today.  I will see what the results are soon.  I feel better today already.  Amazing, if it lasts.  I am committed to Whole30 at the minimum.  I know I will struggle with the chocolate and not be perfect.  I seriously love dark chocolate, guys.  

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I had CRP, SED and basic blood panels run today.  I will see what the results are soon.  I feel better today already.  Amazing, if it lasts.  I am committed to Whole30 at the minimum.  I know I will struggle with the chocolate and not be perfect.  I seriously love dark chocolate, guys.  

 

If you're missing your chocolate, try the (compliant!) Chocolate Chili from Well Fed (she's a chocolate lover too!) or the (compliant!) Cocoa Toasted Cauliflower

 

Also, cravings for chocolate can indicate a magnesium deficiency, as chocolate contains quite a bit, but you can get it from other sources too.

 

There's also the hot brewed Crio Bru http://criobru.com/ - I've never tried it but there's a lot of fans on the forum. Check the label, I know there are compliant ones but there may be some others which aren't.

 

You can be chocolate free for 30 days, but it doesn't mean you can't have any cocoa :)

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If you're missing your chocolate, try the (compliant!) Chocolate Chili from Well Fed (she's a chocolate lover too!) or the (compliant!) Cocoa Toasted Cauliflower

 

There's also the hot brewed Crio Bru http://criobru.com/ - I've never tried it but there's a lot of fans on the forum. Check the label, I know there are compliant ones but there may be some others which aren't.

 

LOVE the chocolate chili.  Good idea.  I haven't made it since last winter.  I've never tried the second recipe, but I eat cauliflower a lot.  

 

I actually drank Crio Bru (have their tshirt!) when I first gave up caffeine.  I switched back to regular decaf after having a histamine overload problem and thought it might be part of the issue.  I really liked it but I think I will steer clear because I'm not sure it likes me.  I had a lot of heart palps.  Man, this isn't fun.  I never used to react to foods.

 

I will find a good way to get through this next month.  I go to San Fran in a week so I think I won't be able to stay compliant 100%.  I can do the best possible.  I will also know my blood test results by then.  

 

I'm encouraged my how much better I feel.  The aching... the hip pain... the dead feeling in my legs... much less.  That is just 48 hours, folks.  

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I will find a good way to get through this next month.  I go to San Fran in a week so I think I won't be able to stay compliant 100%.  I can do the best possible.  I will also know my blood test results by then.  

 

You should be able to find lots of compliant food in San Fran, so there's no need to go off the program unless you're choosing to.

 

If you think you may have an auto-immune disease, going off plan may result in a very miserable trip, so have a think about whether it's what you really want.

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Well, well, well... knock me over with a feather:

 

My SED rate is 8mm/hr (reference range 0-22 mm/hr)

 

My C Reactive Protein is <.5 mg/dL (reference range 0-.8 mg/dL)

 

CBC and Metabolic panel are all within normal ranges except BUN (but I'm super hydrated).

 

BP was 90/60 which is my normal

 

HR was 56 which is my normal

 

Some of the CBC values were on the low end of normal:  WBC, RBC, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit.  I am assuming that is from a vegetarian/vegan/sugar diet for the better part of 6 months?  On the Metabolic Panel, total protein and albumin were on the low end, too.  My guess is more protein!

 

Today I had a chicken breast.   ;)

 

I will keep up with the Whole30 and lower inflammation foods, but I am going to go the orthopedic route to see what is going on.  Since I am 50, a long time eating disorder battler, sugar eater and heavy duty exercise freak I might want to get a bone density scan.  I broke the neck of my femur years ago from running.  Although I don't run anymore, I have been hiking and walking to excess.  That, combined with a crappy diet?  Only an Xray and time will tell.  

 

Younger people, listen up!  Bodies will fail if you do not take care of them.  sigh

 

Any feedback welcome!

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So, sorry, this means you do NOT have the autoimmune conditions you were worried about?  If so, YAY!!!!!!!!!  And if that is the case, crazy how very sick eating against our biological norm can make a person, hey?

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I am assuming that is from a vegetarian/vegan/sugar diet for the better part of 6 months?  On the Metabolic Panel, total protein and albumin were on the low end, too.  My guess is more protein!

 

Today I had a chicken breast.   ;)

 

I will keep up with the Whole30 and lower inflammation foods, but I am going to go the orthopedic route to see what is going on.  Since I am 50, a long time eating disorder battler, sugar eater and heavy duty exercise freak I might want to get a bone density scan.  I broke the neck of my femur years ago from running.  Although I don't run anymore, I have been hiking and walking to excess.  That, combined with a crappy diet?  Only an Xray and time will tell.

Any feedback welcome!

 

High sugar (which a lot of vegan/vegetarian can be) and low protein can result in some pretty unhealthy numbers, glad to see you're on the mend.

 

If you can get one near you, I recommend a DEXA scan, it's less dangerous than an Xray and gives you muscle, fat and bone all at once, I had to have them when I was losing muscle mass (which is what made me do a Whole30 in the first place, my body was eating it's own muscle :( )

 

You may want to add a small amount of liver (beef or chicken) or shellfish (oysters are #1 if you can get them) in your immediate future, these both contain a lot of essential repair nutrients which are great for recovery and rebuilding in the body.

 

I really don't think you need an AIP now! :D

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