Having Trouble Eating Enough - Big Guy Woes

[WholeBear]

I'm 6'5" and at 342 pounds when I started the Whole 30 9 days ago.

 

I'm having a tough time with hunger, and not feeling like I'm getting enough to eat. 

 

I think my meals are fairly solid by the W30 template with plenty of good fat, protein and complex carbs.  Although I feel like I need more protein.

 

Most meals are like this:  Two servings meat (salmon with avacodo mixed in, two chicken thighs, 1/2 Pound of grass fed beef, 6 eggs), two very large portions of veggies, usually one raw (carrots, beets) and one cooked (roasted brussel sprouts, roasted green beans).  I have a little bit of fruit (one kiwi, a few blueberries, a small apple).  And I get fat: Whole avocados, up to 2-3 servings of coconut flakes a meal, recently added a serving of cashews (I was hesitant on cashews, as I tend to overeat them, but as I was having trouble eating enough, I figured it's a go on them).

 

Now, I'm not counting calories, but as an ex-yoyo dieter, I can eyeball calories with the best of them and know quite well my bodies caloric needs.  2 Servings meat, plus two veg (with at least one veg cooked in a generous serving of olive oil or ghee) with a bit of fruit and even some extra fat...is not cutting it.  I feel good after the meal, but then (sorry if this is TMI) after I go to the bathroom after the meal, I feel empty and hungry within the hour.  I keep my snacking very very minor, as per the recommendation.

 

Now, in the last year I ate fairly cleanly, and was able to very slowly lose weight without any hunger.  But I was eating as much protein as I wanted from cheap sources.  Now I'm buying the best proteins.  $5 eggs, $7/lb beef, etc.

 

I would say most meals I get around 1000 calories if I'm lucky.  800 if not.  I want to be getting around 3600 a day, or 1200 a meal.  I know this sounds like a lot, but it's not for a guy my size.  I will lose 5+ pounds a month at 3600, up to 8 to 10 pounds if very active. 

 

But how do I go about this?  I'm already spending 20 dollars a day on food (yes, I also buy organic half the time).  I feel like I need more protein, but it's so expensive.  I also feel like a pig for wanting more food, since I eat so much.  Cooking a meal takes me from 30 minutes to and hour and a 1/2 and eating all that (lower-calorie) food takes at least 30 minutes too. 

 

I have learned a lot about cooking for myself on W30 so far, and that's great, but what is the recommendation for getting a bit more food for not much more cost?  Just snack more on something cheapish?  A 4th meal seems almost impossible given time/money.  Do I try for more fat?  More protein?  I'm getting tons of veg, I don't think I need any more.  I probably get around 120 grams of protein a day, which is an amount that I don't think will cause me to die, but I'd rather be closer to 1 g per lean body mass, since it helps me with satiety.  

 

I realize I could also switch to cheap eggs and meat, but I feel like that's kind of against the point of this whole experiment, even if many people on the program do that.  I feel like this is a lot easier for a small women who only needs 2000 calories a day.

[WholeBear]

I should also mention I regularly have some starches such as yams and rootabega.

[praxisproject]

If you're hungry, you probably aren't getting enough to eat, but we need to figure out what.

• How many eggs can you hold in one hand? (if you haven't tried this, have a go and see how many you can hold)
• Are your protein serves palm sized? (your palm, thickness and size)
• How much starchy veg are you having with each meal and per day?
• When you say two serves of veg, how many cups total?
• Are you exercising at all? (this includes bowling)
• Work a job where you're burning more than a desk job?
• Are you eating three meals a day? What times?

Money might be changing your meals more than you mean it to.

Organic and grassfed are great, but they're not required to be compliant.

If I'm short of money, I buy eggs as good as I can afford and I just do the best I can with the rest (lookup the clean fifteen and the dirty dozen to help you save too). Don't buy less food than you need, you can get great results without a single organic anything.

[missmary]

In addition to the great info from praxisproject, you really need to let the idea of calories go. Eat to your hunger, but make sure it is really your hunger, not the idea that you need 1200 calories per meal. Different types of food have different nutrient densities. A whole30 meal, which is highly nutrient dense, can go much further per calorie than the bulk foods most people are use to eating, so you might need fewer calories on this plan, and that is fine. On the other hand, sometimes there is a surge of craving on the whole30 as the body makes up for past eating patterns and you might need more food for a few days. This is totally normal and ok. The key here is to listen to your bodies signals, whatever they are. Set the math aside and honor how you are feeling from day to day.

 

If you are truly hungry and can't seem to get enough in at each meal, consider adding a fourth meal to your day. Compose this one just like the others--don't try for "filler", give your body the good stuff.

[WholeBear]

@praxis

 

I can hold 7 medium eggs, so probably 6 large.  6 eggs is what I usually have in a frittata per meal when I make that.

My meat servings might be smaller than my palms, the chicken probably is.  I was going more by weight.  Such as a 1/2 pound of beef, or 1/2 pound of chicken.

I generally have 3ish starchy vegs a day.  A few meals have zero, most have 1, some have 2.

I have a minimum of 2 cups veg, usually 3 or more.

I am doing 20 minutes of moderate-fast walking.  I have taken the week off bowling, but will certainly be bowling again soon.  Just making these meals increases activity quite a bit tough!

I eat three meals a day (except one day where I fell asleep early).  I have a circadian rhythm disorder, Non-24, where my sleep pattern is highly irregular, so I can't quite you what exact times I eat.  What I try to do is have a meal early in my day (whatever time), and then wait 5-6 hours, eat again, wait 5-6 hours, eat again.  I tend more towards the 6 hours.

 

I want to eat grass-fed and pastured for many reasons.  To move away from the factory farms, to see the effect on inflammation given the ration difference of omega 6 to 3, etc.  But it is very expensive.

 

@missmary

 

I'm just using calories as an example of something quasi-scientific in reporting my hunger.  I don't care if I eat 1200, if I'm full and feel good and energetic. 

 

I have no cravings at all.  I don't care about sugar, or processed food, et al.  It's pure hunger.  I guess I'm still wondering, do I want to try to get more fat or more protein, or more of both?  Or more of protein, fat, and veg/fruit?  I feel like it's not enough protein if anything.

[laura_juggles]

How much water are you drinking? 

[praxisproject]

Don't worry about weight, use your own palm.

 

I have big palms for a girl and my first W30 I just wasn't eating enough. Not sure why, I was using someone else's palm size

 

I'd try for 3 cups of veggies with every meal and I'd go for 3 lots of starchy veg every day, you're a big guy and you need some fuel

I'd also add in a pre & post meal (see the template PDF) for your walking - this is extra food, don't use your existing meals.

 

You can also adjust your Omegas in other ways. Buy lean cheap meat and add in some healthy fats, supplement with Omega 3s, cut down on nuts and other Omega 6 sources. Seafood is a great way to shift the balance, especially oysters, scallops and other mollusks.

 

If you're still hungry after all those changes, add in a fourth template meal. It doesn't have to be full size, but if you're hungry enough to eat a whole one, try it out.

 

Also, not familiar with Non-24, but an ex-insomniac shift worker here.

 

I had huge improvements in my hormones/circadian rhythms from:

• eating within an hour of waking
• eating to the template
• following the recommendations as well as the rules (for me no snacking was a biggie, tweaking my meals so I didn't get hungry in between)
• abiding by good sleep hygiene
  - including no backlit devices (computers, tvs, smart phones - anything artificially lit but especially things with screens)
• adding liver & non-fish seafood (I got even more improvement after adding vitamin K2)
• magnesium supplement at night before bed
• vitamin d3 supplement in the morning

[WholeBear]

@laura 

 

A pretty good amount.  Over a half gallon a day.  I try to drink water when I'm hungry, but it goes through me in a matter of minutes and I'm left feeling empty soon after.  I bought some coconut water for when I've done a lot of activity, and that helps a bit, probably with the electrolytes.

[Tom Denham]

I understand about eating a lot of food and still feeling hungry. When I started doing the Whole30, I ate 4-5 and occasionally 6 meals per day. It took me awhile to realize that I was eating enough protein and veggies, but not enough fat. I began to do a better job of adding fat to meals and now I can be comfortable with 3 meals during many days. However, I still sometimes add a fourth meal (not counting post-workout food when I exercise).

 

Back when I weighed 165 pounds and was running marathons, a dietician calculated that I was eating 4000 calories per day. It pissed her off that I was the skinniest person in the room and was eating so many calories. I now weigh 185 pounds and have no idea how many calories I eat. I can say that I eat a lot. Last night I cooked a whole chicken over two pounds of carrots and a few white potatoes with a can of coconut milk, salt, garlic powder, curry powder, and cumin in a pressure cooker. My plate was piled two inches deep with almost 1/4 of the chicken, carrots, and potatoes. I woke up a little early this morning feeling hungry. I have to eat like this at 2 of 3 meals per day to be okay with 3 meals. If I slack off much, I need 4 meals.

 

You are not drinking nearly enough. At your weight, we recommend you drink 171 ounces of water per day. Yes, it means you will have to pee a lot, but you have a lot going on in your body that needs to be flushed and drained. Try it for a while and see if it does not help. To drink so much water, you must plan to drink water. I avoid drinking while I am eating because I do not want to dilute stomach acid as I am eating. I try to drink 3 glasses when I first get up in the morning and then I try to keep drinking as I sit at my desk. I drink one glass after a meal. 

[WholeBear]

@praxis

 

Thanks for the suggestions.  I should probably eat a bit before/after excercise.

 

On an off-topic note, for something we were talking about in another thread:  I took Enlyte on the day before Whole 30.  It made me super tweaked for a couple days, but then settled down, and I have felt the best I've felt in a long time overall from just one pill.  It's going to be tough to know what's the Whole 30 helping and what's the Enlyte.  I had some very severe depression before starting this and it has lifted in a major way.

 

@Tom

 

OK!  Good to see it's okay to eat a lot!  The meal you describe (chicken and fixings) sounds more like where I should be at.  Two small chicken thighs just isn't enough food for me.  (I wish it was, cause it sure would be easier and cheaper to eat that way!). 

 

Wow, that is not an insignificant amount of water.  I may have to work up to it.  That comes to 1 1/3 gallons.  I usually fill a gallon jug 3/4th full at the beginning of the day and have a tiny bit left over at the end.  I'll see what I can do.  I already go to the bathroom a lot, so I'm not that worried about that.

[praxisproject]

Just looked up what's in Enlyte and you may want to be tested (blood test) for MTHFR (highly undiagnosed in men, often not even considered) as the formulation suggests it's been formulated for those with MTHFR (breakdown in methylation pathways). Deficiency in B12 and the B family has strong links with depression. Grains (wheat in particular) also have links to anxiety and depression, so be careful during your reintroductions.

 

You may find getting the water in easier with a slice of lemon or lime in it and make sure you're getting enough salt too. I throw in a little Frank's Red Hot (original is compliant, but always read the label as some of their products aren't compliant) for a sodium boost now and then and it makes great buffalo chicken

[Tom Denham]

I cook whole chickens every time because it is so much cheaper that way. I used to cut the chicken up before cooking, but being lazy, nowadays I just cook the whole chicken and pull it apart afterwards. 

 

I have a taste for chicken lately, but have gone months without eating any because I find that red meat satisfies me longer than poultry or fish. My local farmer told me that I was his biggest customer for roasts. I went through a phase where I slow cooked a roast once or twice per week. Slow cooking is really easy. You can put a frozen roast in with spices and eat 6.5 to 8 hours later. 

[praxisproject]

I also love this NomNomPaleo kitchen hack, roast two chickens at once! (I use duck fat and ghee to replace the non-compliant butter)

[SugarcubeOD]

Just looked up what's in Enlyte and you may want to be tested (blood test) for MTHFR (highly undiagnosed in men, often not even considered) as the formulation suggests it's been formulated for those with MTHFR (breakdown in methylation pathways). Deficiency in B12 and the B family has strong links with depression. Grains (wheat in particular) also have links to anxiety and depression, so be careful during your reintroductions.

 

You may find getting the water in easier with a slice of lemon or lime in it and make sure you're getting enough salt too. I throw in a little Frank's Red Hot (original is compliant, but always read the label as some of their products aren't compliant) for a sodium boost now and then and it makes great buffalo chicken

You put Franks in your water??

[praxisproject]

lol sorry, that reads funny, not in my water!    I prefer it on chicken, buffalo chicken wings or buffalo chicken salad

 

Much as I love it, I would probably not drink it. But buffalo chicken wings is great with water & lime

[SugarcubeOD]

lol sorry, that reads funny, not in my water!    I prefer it on chicken, buffalo chicken wings or buffalo chicken salad

 

Much as I love it, I would probably not drink it. But buffalo chicken wings is great with water & lime

Franks mixed with mayo on cold cubed chicken with green onions and then served over hot spaghetti squash with ghee... dead... so good!

With Franks-free water and lime of course

[Brewer5]

You put Franks in your water??

 

I was skimming and TOTALLY read it that way, also.