Jeanni Hall

Fasting sugar has gone up, not down?

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Hi everyone,

 

So... i'm curious about something. I've actually looked through the forums and can't find anything specific about this exact phenomena.

 

I started my "first" whole 30 at the end of January.  About 9 days in, I had to restart due to some soy in my teabags i hadn't realized was there, but other than that, i had been perfectly compliant.

 

It so happened that the date that I restarted at day 0, I had a doctor's appointment with a new doctor who I went to see so that I could have someone who helped me track the response I had to the whole 30.  He was enthusiastic and took my blood and did a bunch of baseline tests, and I moved on with restarting my whole 30.

 

So as of the 9th, when my blood was drawn, I'd been eating whole30 compliant (except for the herbal tea with soy lecithin) for 10 days.

 

As far as I have been aware, as of the last tests I'd had a few months before that, there was no trouble with my sugar. But the test from this doctor (fasting) came back with high sugar. I'm not sure how high- I see him tomorrow to go over that.

 

But when they told me, I thought maybe the 4 oz of coconut water i'd had that morning had messed up my results, so i have tested several fasting sugar levels in the am this past week, and the first one was scary high. 213.  They've gone down a bit first to 186 and then settling around 175.  But I seem to now really have high fasting blood sugar on a consistent basis.

 

So, i'm just curious if anyone has experienced this phenomenon.  Something I read implied that maybe it's more a result of glycogen and liver function overnight when you go longer than 5 hours eating, with your body starting to convert fat instead of carbs?  And also something about eating a lot of coconut oil (and i've been using coconut oil and coconut milk etc) possibly doing something ketogenic wise?  Could that be why?  Can someone explain to me what actually HAPPENS overnight when your body fasts that might account for it?

 

I just really expected that the numbers would be LOW.  I am not eating any real quantity of fruit except a bit of pineapple or berries with meal 3 here and there.  I'm having reasonable portions of protein - not massive loads of it, and a really wide variety of fresh, raw and roasted veggies - probably easily 8 cups a day.  I'm not having any of those blood sugar crash driven cravings... in fact this way of eating has been remarkably easy for me to stick with... pretty much the only thing I miss is the cream for my coffee, and even that's not all that hard - more a wistful sorta sigh type of missing :)  The food on the whole 30 actually represents an increase in variety from the strict fodmap diet i had been on for a while for my stomach difficulties (whih are totally resolved on the whole 30 - no issues at all!)  

 

Maybe it's just a coincidence of timing and i truly did develop diabetes in the past few months, right before I went on the whole 30 and it just hadn't been diagnosed.... i guess an A1C test might show that...  but I was hoping to walk in tomorrow armed with an explanation where I could say "let's just wait 30 days and see if it fixes itself"....  I really don't want to go on meds. I don't want to be stupid about it, but it seems such a downfall to go ON diabetes meds halfway through a whole 30.

 

If anyone wants to review my logs to see the sort of meals i've been having, I have literally logged EVERYTHING... here: http://forum.whole30.com/topic/33964-jeannis-log/ 

 

 

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I'm not sure about your fasting blood sugar but in reading through your logs, you are not eating enough.

Many of your meals are lacking vegetables and I do see a serving of pineapple at the end of dinner almost every night which tells me that you may be using it for dessert... you may want to cut back on the fruit and nuts/dried fruit/coconut flakes as they appear quite often in your meals and these are things that should be limited. Some of your meals lack protein in sufficient quantities... One chicken thigh is not enough protein... I also noted the lack of fat in some of your meals.

You would be well suited to take another read through the meal template and fashion your meals to meet the template. I can't say for sure if the lack of nutrition is what is contributing to your fasting blood sugar but I do know that you are likely not eating enough and that can have far reaching consequences.

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Hmmm.... I appreciate that feedback.  I'm going to ask some questions, but it's in the spirit of understanding - I don't mean to rebut anything... just want to learn how I can do even better.

 

First, a palm sized portion of protein is what is specified in the template? A chicken thigh is actually quite a bit larger than my palm, and i usually have 3 eggs, even though I can only hold 2. I know that i have small hands so i was trying to compensate for that, but an average chicken thigh is really palm sized for most people, unless it's one of the bitty ones, at which point I would have 2.  So is the recommendation for more than palm sized? If so, how much more do you think i should try to include?

 

Second, do you count potatoes and root veggies as veggies for this purpose?  I've gone back and taken another look, and except on a few breakfast meals where I specifically said "yes, i know it's light and snacky - there was a reason xyz" (which was maybe 3 or 4 times) i've nearly always got at least one vegetable if not two with the meals, and they're decently sized portions.  Enough to fill half the plate with vegetables. I do limit the size of the potatoes/sweet potatoes to either half or a whole very small one, because they're pretty starchy, but unless you're not counting sweet potatoes and roasted root veggies, there is always something there? Things like spinach, broccoli, asparagus, salads, sweet potatoes, white potatoes, zucchini, spaghetti squash, roasted carrots, brussel sprouts, roasted greenbeans, peppers... even eggplant (blech - only once!)...  

 

I have some difficulties with remembering the fat - i really struggled at first to shrug off 20 years of 'low fat' programming - but recently I've gotten pretty good at remembering to use ghee.  Coconut, olives and avocados are functioning as fat primarily? I thought olives were good in that role?  So I'm not really using the coconut as fruit at all - and even then i really only mentioned coconut flakes or shredded coconut 3 or 4 times in the past 20 days.  Am I misunderstanding the use of the olives, avocado and coconut?  I have occasionally used nuts for a fat but probably in the whole 22 days or so of logging 3 meals a day, i had them perhaps 10 times... so i don't feel like my nut intake is over the top. They're certainly not every day, because i read about the dangers of oversupplementing with nuts and i'm consciously avoiding that.  Can you suggest some other sources of fat that I could add to make getting into my diet easier?

 

I do understand and agree with your comment on the pineapple.  Reading back through my log myself, I see that i have been adding it primarily to the end of meal 3... and more times than I realized.  I think fruit kind of always takes the role of dessert whether you plan for it to or not.  It's sweet, so you don't end up eating it mixed up with the other items on the plate like you do savory things. It get segregated to the end sort of naturally.  Maybe I'll keep my fruit raw and with lunch so it's in the middle of the day and isn't the last thing i eat before bed.

 

I will go back and review the template again.. make sure i'm not inadvertently misunderstanding something.  Thank you for taking the time to make suggestions. I welcome them.

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I used to have high fasted blood sugar before Whole30 and it can also be related to hormones.

 

I was a breakfast skipper, under-eater and undernourished and I took a lot of cortisone medication.

 

I found the template meals, not eating fruit by itself (I always used to do this, silly me) and eating within an hour of waking really made a difference to my blood work. Actually pretty much all the Recommendations helped me a lot  :)http://whole30.com/2015/01/rules-recommendations/

 

In my doctor's words, I've gone from Prediabetic and metabolically deranged into "Normal" blood sugar (he is from the old school of Eat Less Move More so he was pretty astonished at the post-Whole30 changes). For me, grains are metabolically disruptive, it's not just carbs, it's the quality of my nutrition as well. I had quite a number of deficiencies, but some doctors ignore these, especially when some lab results don't provide an actual number to the doctor (they just get a word blurb like "in range" but a range can be very big and if you're always at the very bottom, it may not be okay).

 

As a long time breakfast skipper who has changed her ways, I recommend reviewing the number of eggs in the morning, it's 3-4 for most people, for some it's more. As many as you can hold in your hand.

 

I'm not against steamed veggies, but I'm going to ask you to challenge your mindset on those, steamed veggies are from LowFatLand :) If you're looking to add more fats, these are making you have to work harder. It's worth reviewing your own meals against the template and your results, was lunch 1 or 3 cups of veggies? hmm, when I have 3 cups of veggies at lunch and dinner, my fasted blood sugars are better (I actually only measure my fasted ones now, the others I find too vague/conditional to measure my results).

 

If you feel like your blood work is really out of control and your doc is freaking out, going without fruit can help some people a lot (veggies tend to be much lower in fructose & glucose load), some get even better results with monitoring FODMAPs too. It doesn't really sound like you're at that point though, so stick with it, the body can take some time to adjust.

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fasting should be with nothing by mouth for 6-8 hours, unless it's unsweetened tea or black coffee. Coconut water has sugar in it naturally and that could have caused the high at the dr's office.

As for the other stuff, adding fat can seem complicated and difficult. Some things that may help (coming from someone who does have blood sugar issues and seen improvement with paleo-ish diet, but hasn't done a W30 yet) sweet potatoes, white potatoes tend to be very carb heavy. Maybe try limiting them a little bit more. Fruit can vary on how it affects your blood sugar. While delicious, pineapple, grapes, bananas and a lot of the super sweet fruit are "sugar bombs" and can adversely affect blood sugar. I find I do better with berries than most other fruit.

Ways to add fat: roast or pan fry/sauté! It's not a lot of fat (don't count it as a serving) but it helps! Avocado and olives are good sources too, mayo (homemade or I think primal kitchens is compliant). I actually have found some w30 homemade spice mixes that you can mix with mayo to make delicious dressings or dips for veggies or meats that will help.

Hope that limiting fruits and starchy veggies and increasing fat helps with fasting sugars.

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Hello,

 

I'm a type 1 diabetic and on day 22 of the Whole 30. It's very strange but I've noticed a similar effect. I've been eating far less sugar of course, and way more protein, fiber and fat, but several hours after eating my blood sugars are trending higher than usual. It doesn't seem to be directly related to my meals, but like you said, fasting numbers. I'm thinking I need to up my Lantus to hopefully bring that number down. The only thing I can really think of is that I know fat can delay the absorption of sugars in the bloodstream, so more fat may be causing my sugars to remain higher longer after meals? Doesn't really seem likely though. Before my Whole 30 I was already eating a good amount of healthy fats and never had that issue.

 

So I don't really have any help/suggestions, but wanted to chime in that I'm seeing a similar phenomenon.

 

 

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This my first post. Started Whole30 on the 1st of January because my blood sugars were elevated.  On day 12. Last 3-4 days fasting blood sugars have been elevated.  I appreciate all the information as can see that I am not getting enough vegetables or protein.  I will go back to beginning and review the menu  plans and see where I need to increase my food intake.  I think I have been running sort of on empty

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You mentioned coconut water in the morning. That could have done it. Fasting glucose readings require a true fast before the blood is taken. Fasting but having some coconut water would throw off your results.

I agree with the mod that more fat would also help. Could you work in some avocados? 

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This has happened to me too.  I'm totally normoglycemic but since starting W30 my fasting sugars are 100-105.  I have a glucometer around from a stint at keto so I don't check regularly but I'm perplexed as to the high readings as well.

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On 1/12/2018 at 6:21 PM, littleg said:

This has happened to me too.  I'm totally normoglycemic but since starting W30 my fasting sugars are 100-105.  I have a glucometer around from a stint at keto so I don't check regularly but I'm perplexed as to the high readings as well.

Same thing here. Thought I'd check sugar levels in the morning out of curiosity. Was around 85 fasting (on the regular SAD way of eating) and now I'm up to 108. Makes no senses to me. I've been eating WAY more veggies and (of course) no sugar so am really perplexed. If while eating all the sugars etc I have a low level why would not eating sugar throw the level up (and believe me a Larabar here or there wouldn't even account for 1/8 of what I was eating before....)

 

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I'm not saying that any of you are "trying" to be ketogenic (or that you are) -- but, if you're interested in learning, maybe google "physiological insulin resistance" + "keto" and read through some articles about it.  See if you think it fits.  

If you are not ketogenic but instead are consuming a lot of starchy vegetables, that may be your answer right there.  Potatoes make my blood sugar do crazy things.  

Another thing to be aware of is that it is common to experience higher than our normal blood sugar surrounding that time of the month.  Lots of articles out there about that, too.  Clearly this doesn't explain the other days of the month ~ but it is something I learned along my journey that I thought may help anyone who finds themselves confused about that.  

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I actually recently started adding sweet potatoes back in thinking I was in that no-man's land of carb consumption - not keto and yet not enough.  I need to recheck in a few days and see if its the same.  I was thinking it might have been a cortisol driven response... still not sleeping too great and these last few weeks have been especially bad with the little guy (5 day stomach virus with more night wakings and then 2 weeks of "hey, this waking up and breastfeeding a few times in the middle of the night thing is fun... I'll keep doing it!"...).  Still no PP cycle for me yet.

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High fasting blood sugars can be related to "dawn phenomenon" as the liver prepares for the day. If blood sugars and insulin levels are low, the liver is able to release more sugar in the morning than when insulin levels are higher. Even though it isn't technically low carb or keto, W30 eating does lead to lower insulin levels because it is removing many of the foods that trigger a blood sugar and insulin response (sugar, artificial sugar, alcohol, dairy, legumes, and grains). So even though dawn phenomenon is typically seen with low carb diets, those who notice higher fasting blood glucose on W30 could be experiencing a sort of W30 dawn phenomenon. When I do W30, my fasting blood sugars go up for the first several days and then go back down as my body adjusts to the lower insulin level.

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I completed Whole30 7 days ago, have only reintroduced alcohol and otherwise still eating Whole30. I have only had a couple glasses of wine over last 7 days. Had health screening this a.m.  at work and was shocked that my fasting blood sugar was at 112. It was at 104 a year ago. Would this be attributed to the pre-dawn syndrome? 

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Hey there, I'm a type 2 diabetic controlled by diet and exercise (except in my recent pregnancy when I was on insulin), on day three of my first whole 30. I've noticed a spike in my fasting sugars too - this morning I was 7.5 (we go by mmol/L here in Australia - think it's about 135 in mg/dl). I was thinking it must be "dawn phenomenon" - hoping it settles down. I'm not eating any fruit and very small amounts of sweet potato. Will keep testing and sharing but wanted to share you're not alone! :)

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