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Joint Pain Not Easing!


LJG

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Hello - I am really looking for some help / advice:

Background - was very healthy for 39 years. Never broke a bone, always active with sports, my kids, and usually ran 3-5 miles 2 to 3 times per week. Did not take any meds (not even a vitamin). In April 2012, went through sudden Premature Ovarian Failure. After extensive testing, really horrible things were ruled out as culprits, so ended up on various meds to treat the symptoms. I have now lost 25% bone density throughout and 35% in my hips. I have constant hip pain since April and can hardly enjoy my runs anymore. One doctor suggested it was arthritis, but am going back next Monday to a different doctor to explore further. The pain escalates severly for days after a run (or even a brisk lengthy walk). I am on Day 22 and have not noticed a change at all in the pain in my hips. Over the weekend, I decided to check out the ingredients in my meds (hadn't thought about it until Friday... duh!)

Citrical D - calcium carbonate, calcium citrate, magnesium hydroxide, acacia, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, crocarmellose sodium, magnesium silcate, titanium dixide (color), propylene glycol dicaprylate/dicaprate, magnesium sterate, inulin (oligofructose enriched), vitamin D3 (chlocaliferol)

My centrum Ultra womens contains what seems like 100 ingredients. At the end, it says Contains SOY

My vitamin D2 50,000 units does not include any ingredient information

My progesterone does not include ingredients but it says DO NOT TAKE IF ALLERGIC TO SOY OR PEANUT PRODUCTS

My Premarin also does not include ingredients but there are not peanut/soy warnings.

I know W30 says doctors orders trump and they put me on all these meds back in the spring - would the amount of SOY in these meds potentially be preventing me from joint pain relief? I read through every post that had "joint pain" mentioned on this site, and most were either relieved from elimination of sugar and grains. The ones that weren't seemed to be alleviated from eliminating Nightshades (I didn't know what these were until I googled them, but they include potatoes, peppers, and tomatoes).

I have a doctor appointment next Monday 10/8. Should I ask her to change my meds so I don't have SOY? Or is the amount so minor and the likelihood that that is causing the pain to be so minor that it is not worth it? Should I try eliminating Nightshades? Should I add fish oil? I really hate taking any meds and given some days I already have to take 6, I hate adding any others...

I am not sure eliminating anything will work if the pain is constant, but also flares up with activity... Any thoughts???

Thank you so much for your help! I REALLY want to be able to get back out and enjoy my runs. It does absolute wonders for the soul :)

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It doesn't sound like diet is the problem, it sounds like the running is exacerbating your pain. Do you have a swimming pool in your area? Swimming could give you the same exercise high without the pounding on your joints. I hope you feel better!

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I hope someone else can chime in and be helpful, but it can't hurt to ask your doctor about meds without soy?

And, I don't have a background in all this, but if I were in a similar situation, I would cut out nightshades for a few weeks just to see if they are having any effect. Maybe they're not, maybe they are. (I hadn't heard of a doctor recommending cutting out nightshades before, but an ER doctor just recommended it to my husband a few weeks ago - not related to joint pain though.)

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Wow, I just tried to respond and I was all over the place with thoughts. Let me try again:

First, if you are concerned about food sensitivities at ALL, it is completely worthwhile to ask your doc to keep that in mind and ask for different scripts. It's possible that he can even give you samples for a month, so you don't have to financially commit for a (likely) more expensive prescription when you may or may not need it. When/if you get clean scripts, I would also pull out eggs and nightshades. It's only 30 days, and if that's the answer...then great! If it's not, at least you know FOR SURE that those foods are not your problem.

Now, given the rest of your stuff, I have some other thoughts that you can totally ignore if you want.

a) I think the multi is unnecessary, given the context of W30's nutrient dense foods. The jury's also out on the efficacy of standard OTC multivitamins, when adjusted for confounders

B) if you're taking a high dose vit d supplement, I would take D3 over D2 any day. It's more bioavailable to humans. Given your bone density decline, giving your body the best tools is important. Were you previously vegan? That's the only reason I'd think D2 would have been prescribed?

c) Are you taking a magnesium supplement like Natural calm? The Whole30 can be light on Mg if you aren't careful (and eating a ton of green veggies), so if your calcium supp is undersupplying the mag, it might be contributing to the problem.

d) do you pick up heavy things? if not, you should stop running and start lifting. lifting increases bone density and does all around awesome things for your body and health. Squat, Deadlift, Press. 3x/week. Do it safely, do it sanely.

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1. Everything Renee said.

2. I don't think the amount of soy or peanuts in your meds is causing you trouble. It is a good idea to get rid of all potential problems, but I would not blame your experience on these things.

3. You came to this having lost 25-35 percent of your bone density. I think it is likely to take longer than 22 days of a really healthy diet to make a measurable difference in your bone density. And I would guess that your bone density is related to your pain.

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Thank you so much for your contributions. Renee' I was not a vegan before and as I was extremely healthy before (as are my children), really didn't have much experience with doctors and questioning things. I will bring some of these questions to my appointment next week. You also recommended eggs to cut in addition to nightshades. I wasn't aware that that was also a potential problem with arthritis / joint pain. I know it is only 30 days and I will definitely do it to see if it helps. This girl really just wants to get out and run and I really hate swallowing pills every day to treat symptoms instead of fixing the cause. I plan to finish up all the yummy meals I made over the weekend to get me through the hectic week (declicous breakfast casserole with ground beef, red peppers, squash, zucchini), butter chicken (from Tom's recipees...) and of course my decedant sweet potatoes that to me are like a bit of Heaven when sprinkled with cinnamon..) and then tack on another 30 days to my W30 (so by then it will be about a W55 or W60...). I am so excited to see if I can overcome this. I have noticed that I feel sick to my stomach about 30 minutes each morning after I eat my eggs. I was thinking it was some of the olive oil / coconut oil that I was never used to eating (my past was always low fat / low cal so any oil would just be a quick bit of spray...), but maybe it is the eggs?? Very interesting... Can't wait to figure it out!

Thanks again for your help and support!!!

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Day 29 for me and I was all geared up for another W30 of eliminating eggs and nightshades, until my doctor visit...

I went to my doctor today as a follow up to my Ovarian Failure issues back in the spring. I wanted to check on the meds, talk about the hip pain, and get her input on the W30 program. I was a little disappointed that she wasn't more interested in the W30 program and felt like she considered it negative without hearing too much about it. I brought information and mentioned that I had it, but she didn't seem to want it. She also didn't think I should eliminate eggs and nightshades b/c she thought I wouldn't be getting the right nutrients. When I talked about the soy in my medicine and that I was supposed to eliminate soy on this program, she didn't comment. I think by that point I felt defeated on the merits of this program and didn't come right out and ask her if there were alternative meds. She did say that if I was going to see change from my diet on any inflamation in my body, I would have to do the program for at least 3 months. So I am feeling a bit conflicted after my doctor visit. I had some blood drawn to check my Vitamin D levels and then she ordered an x-ray to check what is going on with my hips. She did not think the bone loss was causing the pain and thought it was likely just arthritis or bursitis. She suggested a supplement called glucosamine-chondroitin. I googled it, and it is way too technical for me. She explained that it would feel like it provided more fluid in my joints to make them more comfortable over time. I am planning to wait to see what the outcome is of my x-ray and will take it from there.

That is my update. I think I am just discouraged from the visit, but hopefully tomorrow will return my positive attitude. Just not sure what to do on the eggs/nightshades. I see the alternatives as 1) bring my first W30 to closure and begin to reintroduce on day 31 as suggested by the program, but maintain a paleo lifestyle (with educated intentional exceptions); 2) continue on to a W45, W60, etc. eating the same as today and see if I just need more time; 3) Begin Day 31 by eliminating eggs and nightshades (knowing that I still have a bit of soy/peanut oil in one of the hormones I am taking) and go for a second W30; 4) Pop open a bottle of wine and binge on chocolates :)

If anyone has any recommendations on what I should add into my diet to replace what I would get from eggs, peppers, tomatoes and sweet potatoes, I am all ears. I feel like I have come this far, I hate to give up on finding a non-medicated solution.

Thanks!

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I believe sweet potatoes are not nightshades, so you should still be able to eat those (unless I missed something, and you're cutting them out for another reason). I'm not sure what specific nutrients your doctor is worried about you lacking. If you're eating meat, there are lots of non-egg protein sources, and if you're adding in coconut/avocado/olive oil, you're getting lots of healthy fat and cholesterol. Tomatoes are high in vitamin A and C, but there are lots of other sources for those -- carrots and liver for vitamin A, citrus and kiwi for vitamin C. Basically, all the things I can think of are available in other foods. You might want to do a little extra research and be deliberate, but it seems possible that cutting nightshades might be beneficial, and as others have said, if you cut them and it doesn't help, at least you know.

It does sound like the running might be straight-up hurting you if it's causing days' worth of joint pain. Reducing systemic inflammation can cut down on some joint pain, but if you're doing something that is really aggravating your joints, it might not counteract that.

My only other thought is to make sure you're drinking tons of water. It helps with joint pain and just life in general. Glucosamine may or may not help. I read a bunch of research on it at one point, and my impression was that it's unclear how beneficial it is for humans -- some studies seem to indicate it doesn't absorb into the system in a useful way, others show positive effects. Worst case on that is it probably won't hurt anything and is worth a shot.

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Sorry the doctor's visit wasn't as helpful/good as you'd hoped :\

I can't tell you what to do but if I were in a similar situation, I'd opt to go longer/cut out nightshades just to see if there is any effect, you know? I'd rather give up tomatoes, etc., for 30-60 days, rather than taking medicine. (But, I also really hate pills.) Also, I'm pretty positive sweet potatoes are not a nightshade :) (I love them.)

On a side note, I've taken glucosamine/chondroitin in the past for joint issues when i was running a lot (and started to have random joint pain because of overtraining). The supplement really helped. I'm not sure if there's a Whole30-approved (or even just paleo-approved) version out there, but I would think it's out there somewhere. I've been pushing non-paleo family members with arthritis/joint issues to try glucosamine/chondroitin for years now.

Either way, if you're not satisfied with this doctor (it doesn't sound like she really listens to you?) it might be worth trying to get a second opinion? I know there are two sites out there for finding paleo/primal-friendly doctors, but not too many doctors are listed...worth a shot?

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Thanks CAK911 and gatork! I just googled on nightshades, particularly whether sweet potatoes fall into this family and they do not. I agree that it is worth a shot and my positive energy has rebounded since my visit. I am cooking some sweet potatoes as I type and plan to finish off my eggs and nightshade veggies on my Day 30. Wednesday will bring a brand new W30!

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