FODMAPS Questions

[LeeAnn2017]

Hey all! I appreciate any answers to these questions that anyone can offer...

 

 I have never been officially diagnosed with IBS, but when I was younger (middle school age), I described some of my digestive issues to my doctor and he said it sounded like it could be IBS. I cut down on my processed and greasy foods per my doctor's advice and my issues greatly decreased. 

 

Since I have been working on my health over the last six or so years, I have practically eliminated all issues I've had before. I would maybe have a bathroom episode once a month or maybe even once every other month (and I could usually tell it was going to happen because I overdid it somehow). 

 

However, since doing the Whole30, I found that I haven't noticed any difference in my body, no increased energy, no easier sleep patterns...nothing. In fact, I have been having awful gas the entire 30 days (I've just eaten meal #3 for day 30 and plan to start reintroduction tomorrow). It's embarrassing. I had friends who also had gas for quite a bit into the 30 days so I kept thinking it would just go away soon if I just waited it out. I kept waiting and nothing happened. 

 

You can read my thread I created a couple of days ago hoping to get some answers (about not feeling any different) but didn't get any responses for more info about my habits: 

 

After that thread, I cut out eggs and all nuts for a few days to see if anything would improve and nothing did. 

 

I feel like my last resort is to assume that even though I didn't have much issue with my gut before the Whole30, that somehow the increase in veggies has set it off? I am planning on trying to do reintroduction with low FODMAPS. Maybe it's a tad counter-productive, but I'm so emotionally exhausted from working my behind off for 30 days and stressing over the fact that nothing has changed that I don't think I could simply extend the Whole30 without something else to focus on like a FODMAPS-approved reintroduction. So I'm planning on picking foods to reintroduce that are ok on the FODMAPS and see how things go. 

 

First of all, is that stupid? Will the fact that I'm doing reintroduction mess with trying to do low FODMAPS? Is it going to be a waste of time?

How long does it really take to notice a difference? Could I see a difference in a few days? Or would it take a week? Or weeks? Months?? It's just gross gas. I don't have any pain or bloating that I can tell. 

If you are restricted to FODMAPS, does that mean you'll be restricted to them forever? Or does your gut heal enough that you can eat some/most again?

If I know which ones do bother me, can I just avoid them? Or do I have to avoid ALL of them? I have a pretty good idea which ones have been bothering me the most.

 

Any other nuggets of wisdom and encouragement would be greatly appreciated. I am so frustrated and upset by this. I really wanted to reset my body, feel better, and have even some of the amazing results my friends and family have been having. This has been a really hard thing for me to do (I'm not huge at cooking and don't have much experience with a wide variety of foods). I'm proud I did it. I was really scared to when I started. I just want to feel good. I'm feeling hopeless that I should just go back to how I was eating because I didn't have really issues before this. It was easier, cheaper, and less mentally exhausting. I don't want to think that. 

Sorry. Now I'm rambling.

[ShannonM816]

I'm sorry no one replied to your other post. I'm not sure how long it would take you to notice a difference if you did cut out FODMAPS, I think some people do notice changes within a week.

If you know a food bothers you -- any food, FODMAP or otherwise -- it makes sense to avoid it completely. It may be that just avoiding the ones that are the obvious culprits would be enough to make a noticeable difference, or it may not make much difference.

The problem with reintroducing something while excluding new things is that you might reintroduce something and at the same time see improvement in your symptoms. So, was the improvement from leaving out something, or adding something back? You've done both, and even though the likelihood for most people would be that the thing you've left out made the difference, we all, as humans, sometimes see causation where there isn't any, so if you reintroduced something you love, like ice cream, and felt better, even if logically you knew it was probably the stuff you left out that really made you feel better, you might associate eating ice cream with feeling better. Alternately, you could do reintroductions and feel worse, and think that leaving out the FODMAPS wasn't making a difference, because you felt worse, when in fact it was making a positive difference but that difference was being hidden by the negative reaction you were having to something else.

You won't necessarily have to give up all FODMAPS forever. A lot of times, it's about dosage -- you can have a little of something and be fine, but when you start having multiple servings of different FODMAPS over the course of the day, it builds up until you have a reaction, so if you figure out what your limit is, you can decide when it's worth it to you to have something and when it's not. You may also find that you react to some parts of the FODMAPS more than others -- so maybe the oligosaccharides are a problem for you, but polyols aren't as much.

If you haven't found them yet, there's a couple of websites you should look at for reading more about FODMAPS. First, this one has a handy chart of red, yellow, and green -- avoid the stuff in the red column, focus on having the stuff in the green column, and limit the yellow as much as you can. Then there's Monash University's Low FODMAP site that has a lot of information.

 

[Katie Caraway]

I too have been dealing with the gas and bloating and digestive issues.  I feel the same in that regard as I did pre-W30.  I started looking into foods to avoid if you're trying to follow a low-FODMAP diet & come to find out, I've been eating them all on W30: avocado, brussel sprouts, apples, mangos, garlic, onions, etc.  I am day 25 and plan to reentry keeping no grains, dairy, legumes, plus eliminate foods when you try to follow low-FODMAP to try and see if I can identify what's triggering all this gas.

Everything I've read about the low-FODMAP elimination is that it's for two weeks, so not another 30 days

Good luck to you, I know it's frustrating.

[LeeAnn2017]

Thank you!!! That is very helpful @ShannonM816 ! 

Haha, I definitely know if I eat something and it makes me feel better, it's not because of that new food but because my gut is feeling better. I'm not under any illusions that ice cream is "good" for my gut nor do I have emotional or physical attachments to really any foods (which is what made most of the 30 days pretty easy). It's really good to know that, done cautiously, I can do both at the same time.

Those links are great! I've been looking at one ibsdiets.org but the graphic you provided is helpful in distinguishing the NO and YES with the CAUTION. I need to do some more research but I did hit up the grocery store today to get stocked and ready to prep more gut-friendly foods. 

Good to know @Katie Caraway that it won't take but about the same time as reintroduction. 

[Marj K]

Hi, all. Picking up an old thread for some FODMAP assistance. I have 10 days to go and I want to cut FODMAPS. I have had a VERY distended belly (assume it's bloating) for years and years and I am now determined to figure out what's going on in there.

A few quick questions:

1. I started using this list since Melissa recommended this site and I see that you recommend this list, above. Then I noticed that the official W30 Fodmap shopping list has things on there that are not allowed on either of these. So which do you recommend trusting? or when in doubt cut all? A glaring example is that IBS says you can have some nuts and seeds, but Paleo mom says none. 

2. What is the best way to reintroduce FODMAPS? In Day by Day, Melissa suggested eliminating them for 1 week, but then what? I would consider extending behind 30 days if necessary, even though I would prefer not to. (or should I just not reintroduce them until way after my 40 days?) i.e., I could just do the regular W30 reintro after 30 days but just stay off FODMAPS. 

3. Anything else you recommend?

4. Is there any reason to believe that nightshades could also be causing this? I have acid reflux and joint pain, so I've often considered this, but I'm afraid of going too crazy here...It could be overwhelming. 

Thanks! Marj

Tagging our fearless moderator @ShannonM816

[ShannonM816]

I am not really sure why there are differences between the different sources. I think there's just a lot of disagreement in the nutrition community about all sorts of things, including this. I would pick the source that makes the most sense to you and go with it, and in a week or two, you can re-evaluate. ( @jmcbn are you around, and do you have any better advice?)

Cutting out FODMAPS for a week may give you some idea whether that's going to make a difference, but from what I've read, if it does make a difference, you'd really want to leave them out longer before you start reintroducing them. They can be dose-dependent for some people, so it may be that you can have some of them occasionally, but to really figure that out, you need to have a really clean slate to start with, which would probably mean 30 days without them.

Nightshades could be a possibility, but if it feels overwhelming to eliminate both them and FODMAPS right away, pick the one that seems like it will make the most difference for you and start there.

[Marj K]

Thank you so much for the swift response, @ShannonM816. I really appreciate your feedback (and am open to more, @jmcbn)

Do you think it's ok to drop the FODMAPS for the last week and then keep them off while doing all the regular W30 reintros (beans, grains, dairy, etc.)? and then I can always add them back later, as a separate re-intro? It feels like that makes the most sense. 

[Brewer5]

^ yes.  

And keep in mind, while you are reintroducing FODMAPs, they have a *cumulative* effect.  Meaning:   You might drink coconut milk in your coffee and think, "hmmm, I'm fine with that".   So then you have some guacamole and think, "so far, so good".  Then you decide to add sweet potatoes and, BAM -- bloat.  So you think you've pinpointed sweet potatoes, when the reality is that it could just be the *cumulative effect* of all three.  

I haven't looked at your links, so not sure if you've seen this one, but it is what I've always used and stuck to with success.  You will see they have the FODMAPs listed by type.  Maybe you are ok with polyols but have a problem with fructans.  Etc etc.   

I think a good system may be to introduce them in groups like that.   Get your gut feeling good w/ no bloating, then try items in one group and see how you do.  

 

[Marj K]

Thanks, @Brewer5. That was the second chart I included. It's funny that the charts vary so much, but I will use this one. I hope you don't mind a few more questions: 

1. Are you someone who is off FODMAPS completely? or keeps them very limited? It sounds very tricky to me? But I already know that I've never really gravitated towards garlic or anything too pickeled, spicy or strong (even ginger can be too strong for me). 

2. Do you recommend NO yellow either (in this chart)? That includes avocados, coconut, etc.

3. By cumulative effect, in your example below, do you mean you had them all in one day, every few days, or something else? Can you clarify? 

4. Do you have any recs for how long to stay off them before reintroduction and how to reintroduce them? Is it online anywhere? I did just by the Food Freedom book, but haven't gotten it yet.

Thanks, everyone!

Marj

 

[Brewer5]

No problem, @Marj K ~ happy to help.

I have been "aware" of that chart for many years, and it has affected my choices in that time.  It was a HUGE wake-up call when I realized on my first Whole 30 that my digestion was taking a serious turn for the worse, instead of better.  So many of the things that are supposed to be "good" for us did not agree with me.  I had to start customizing.

When I need my digestion to calm down completely, I find all it takes is a couple/fews days on that green list.  Yes, I stick to it completely during those times. And it works.  

Cumulative effect:  I think it's easier to understand if you realize what these FODMAPs are doing:  They are feeding an overgrowth of bacteria.  So I wasn't giving you a specific example of one of my days, I was just giving an example of how things "could" play out.  Just an imaginary scenario.  

So picture it like this:  You eat *some* FODMAPs, you feed *some* bacteria.  You eat *a lot* of FODMAPs ~ your bacteria are having a party in there.  They've invited all of their friends, they're reproducing like crazy, they're having a feast... which is what is creating all of the gas and bloating (and even if you don't have gas -- that's what bloating is -- trapped gas).

My personal opinion, based on my own experience, would be to follow that green list until you feel like you have a considerable, noticeable, comfortable, difference in how your gut feels.  Then, when you care to re-introduce things, I would recommend picking your favorite polyols, for example ~ and just eat them freely.  Add some in each day and see what happens.

If you do that for several days and you still feel like things are A-ok in the digestion department, try adding in another group.  Etc etc.

You may be able to find better details of the groups somewhere else online.  I know some of those items don't specify.

[Marj K]

Thank you SO much, @Brewer5! I think I will start tomorrow and see what happens. This is all very weird to me, but I think I can do it. I noticed myself eating SO many FODMAPs today-like I'm grieving them. I also HATE to waste food and I still have a bunch of sweet potatoes left. Grr. 

I had gone on what feels like a similar elimination years ago--anti candida/fungal, but it didn't help. We'll see...I just don't know if this is it. It's going to be interesting getting fats w/out avo, coconut, nuts and seeds. oy. Feels much more deprivational than W30. But it's an experiment. 

Wish me luck!

[SugarcubeOD]

23 minutes ago, Marj K said:

Thank you SO much, @Brewer5! I think I will start tomorrow and see what happens. This is all very weird to me, but I think I can do it. I noticed myself eating SO many FODMAPs today-like I'm grieving them. I also HATE to waste food and I still have a bunch of sweet potatoes left. Grr. 

I had gone on what feels like a similar elimination years ago--anti candida/fungal, but it didn't help. We'll see...I just don't know if this is it. It's going to be interesting getting fats w/out avo, coconut, nuts and seeds. oy. Feels much more deprivational than W30. But it's an experiment. 

Wish me luck!

Mayo (made with light tasting olive oil), olives (SO many different kinds!), pesto (you can find a pesto without nuts, I've seen it), Chimichurri... Go to www.wellfed.com and see if you can find a sauces tag... lots of her sauces are fat based... 

[Marj K]

Thanks, @SugarcubeOD! Do you think flavored seltzers like LaCroix or Poland Spring is ok? The ones that say "natural flavors," etc.? I know they are W30 complaint, but are they FODMAP compliant as far as you know? I have also heard that seltzer can promote bloating. Seems obvious, but I'm resistant to give it up. Thx.

[Brewer5]

Coconut oil is fine.  If that helps.  

And ~ woo boy ~ I don't want to add on too much for you all at once.  I'll just say that what your gut is telling you re: the fizzy drinks is ... something to be aware of.  I quit the  "natural flavors" kinds a LONG time ago, and just drank plain.  That's out now, too.  And not for an experiment.  I finally realized ~ how could I drink that and *not* expect to be bloated?   Lol.  Took me awhile on that one.  Another Whole 30 lesson.  

[LizaQ]

@Brewer5 This has been so helpful. Thanks!!

[SugarcubeOD]

13 hours ago, Marj K said:

Thanks, @SugarcubeOD! Do you think flavored seltzers like LaCroix or Poland Spring is ok? The ones that say "natural flavors," etc.? I know they are W30 complaint, but are they FODMAP compliant as far as you know? I have also heard that seltzer can promote bloating. Seems obvious, but I'm resistant to give it up. Thx.

I would tend to agree with @Brewer5 - forget the fodmaps, a fizzy drink is drink plus air... hello bloato!

[Marj K]

Thanks, guys. But I've gone off all carbonation before for quite a long time...and nothing changed. 

[scoakley13]

I have IBS-C and bloat after every meal regardless of what I eat. I tried low FODMAP a few years ago and it did absolutely nothing for me except make me realize how much I rely on garlic and onions for flavor. Drinking a cup of 100% peppermint tea after I eat is the only thing I've found that gets rid of my bloat 100% of the time.

[Brewer5]

6 hours ago, Marj K said:

Thanks, guys. But I've gone off all carbonation before for quite a long time...and nothing changed. 

FWIW I do remember drinking one most nights while I was strictly on that green list for a stretch.   And still noticed *much improvement* ... that's probably why I never thought to eliminate it before recently.  

[Marj K]

Hey, @Brewer5 I'm a bit confused planning my regular reintro while staying low FODMAP. Where do beans and legumes lie in this? I don't see it on the chart in any column. Am I missing something? Thanks!

[Marj K]

29 minutes ago, Marj K said:

Hey, @Brewer5 I'm a bit confused planning my regular reintro while staying low FODMAP. Where do beans and legumes lie in this? I don't see it on the chart in any column. Am I missing something? Thanks!

LOL. Duh. Beans and legumes are permanently out on low FODMAP, huh? I know it should be obvi, but why not in the red column? Ugh.

What about a small amt of lentils, chickpeas and tofu as it says in this list? (which also says cabbage, brocc and kale are ok.)

and non gluten grains or is that just not a paleo thing? Thx for ideas...

cc: @SugarcubeOD

[Brewer5]

That's a Paleo FODMAP list, so it doesn't include grains.  If you want to find that information ~ I'm sure it's out there.  

Legumes can be highly disruptive, which is why they are out on a Whole 30.  If you are still dealing with significant bloat, I would advise you not to reintroduce yet.  But of course we're all adults and we make our own choices ~ so that's just my $0.02.  

[Marj K]

Thanks! I appreciate your input. Yeah, I'm just surprised not to see beans on her list. Have a great day!

[SugarcubeOD]

4 hours ago, Marj K said:

What about a small amt of lentils, chickpeas and tofu as it says in this list? (which also says cabbage, brocc and kale are ok.)

and non gluten grains or is that just not a paleo thing? Thx for ideas...

cc: @SugarcubeOD

This is where it really comes down to you starting to do the n=1 experimenting.  There is no one conclusive list because everyone is different... work on making your own red/yellow/green list. It's hard because of the cummulative effect that @Brewer5 mentioned earlier but she or I cannot tell you if a small amount of lentils, chick peas and tofu are going to be okay for you... if you don't know WE don't know... 

And yes, as she mentioned, this is a paleo list and grains, beans and legumes are not considered paleo so you're not going to find it on that list.  I'm sure with a bit of googling you could find a reasonably comprehensive list that includes non paleo food groups - we'll leave that to you  

[Marj K]

Thanks, guys. I certainly wasn't looking for you guys to solve this for me or provide the "answers."

The list Melissa refers to in Day by Day (and that I'm referring to) is not paleo, so I have been referencing that, but like I said, there are HUGE variances, even on your own W30 list. I'm just trying to do the best I can...while not trying to be "perfect" or too anxious about it :). 

Have a good day.