5280sarah

Binge eating and re-starting Whole30

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Hi! Sorry I've been a bit off the radar. I'm overseas right now so out of my routine with the time distance. Firstly @Dragonslayer- be kind to yourself. I always tell myself "fail forward" as a reminder to keep going in a positive direction after a binge. Like any habit it's deep rooted but you can still change it. It's hard but we can do hard things.

@SugarcubeOD Thank you for your post. I loved it as I wanted to join in your 100 days @Alisha Alexanderand @Dragonslayerbut for one knew I had this trip planned and am staying with my family right now. It would be close to impossible to eat whole30 on this trip and I knew I had other events coming up where I didn't want to eat 100% whole30. I would have felt disloyal committing to 100 days when I couldn't give it my all but I'd love to join you for 100 days of food freedom! For the past 8 days I have remained true to my rules and eaten mostly whole30 with a couple of instances of exercising my food freedom choices (which is exactly how I want to eat). An example would be eating a beef stew which I made with my mom's non-whole30 beef broth, everything else was compliant. Splitting a cupcake with my mom which someone gave to us in a restaurant to say thank you for something. In both cases I considered it and felt great about my choices.

for me my rules are:

No to grains, sugar, dairy (with the exception of butter), soy, corn, or additives unless they are part of my food freedom choices.

Yes to peanut butter and butter.

Yes to exercising food freedom over alcohol, and non-whole30 foods when and where I decide it's worth it.

No to mindless eating, snacking and bingeing.

Yes to enjoying food as part of my life and not being afraid of it (this goes back to having an extremely restrictive relationship with food that I never want to go back to).

I feel as I write these that they are kind of vague but they make sense to me!

I'm excited to have a group of people who understand these issues and to support each other in navigating this stuff.

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@Dragonslayer I was thinking the same, I will reevaluate every 30 days.

So my rules. I'm basically following the regular template - no dairy (except butter and ghee), no grains, no sugar, no alcohol, no counting calories, no healthier paleo versions of off limits foods - but with these modifications

1) I'm not going to be strict about small amounts of off plan foods (grains, sugar etc.) that may be in foods when I eat at a restaurant.

2) I'm not going to worry about canola oil. I cook at home 90% of the time anyways, but If I do go out I'm not worried about it being in salad dressing, or even having something deep fried, as long as its not breaded or anything.

3) I'm not going to have potatoes, or sweet potatoes. They are hard for me to stop eating. Consequently, I will likely be eating fairly low carb which is also part of my goal for this. From past experience, I have realized my mood and energy are most stable, and my cravings are lowest when I don't eat high carb foods (especially in the morning). After the first 30 days I will try adding some carbs back in with dinner. 

There are few things I will likely change after 30 days if I'm in a good place, and like you are talking about @5280sarah just really paying attention to if it's worth it. But for now this is the plan.

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5 hours ago, Dragonslayer said:

Ok, I did my list of rules! I'm posting them below, so now I'm really being held accountable. Might sound restrictive or strange to some, but this is what works for me and what I think is best at this point in my food freedom. Every 30 days I will re-evaluate my rules and decide if I need any changes. Here's to the next 100 days and my journey to a binge free food freedom! ... 

  • YES Whole Foods: All non starchy vegetables, low sugar fruits (berries, grapefruit and cantaloupe), sweet and red potatoes, parsnips, all squash, All non or minimally processed meat, Eggs, Avocados, Olives, Coconut, 100% Cacao
  • YES Drinks/Liquids: Almond Milk, Coconut Milk, Kombucha, Coffee, Tea, All Vinegars
  • YES Oils: Avocado, Coconut, Olive, Sesame, and Walnut
  • YES Flours: Coconut, Cassava, Arrowroot, Tapioca, Flax Meal
  • NO Whole Foods: All Grains, Dairy, Peas, Corn, Soy, Plantains, High Sugar Fruits, Peanut Butter, Sunflower Butter, Honey, Maple Syrup
  • NO Other Foods: Added sugar of any kind, anything made with peas, corn, or soy, any processed or refined oils, restaurant breakfast potatoes or fries (even sweet potato), restaurant dressings (only olive oil and vinegar)anything packaged that would technically be compliant (ex: sweet potato chips, dried fruit, fruit and nut bars, mary's crackers, etc.), smoothies, anything resembling a baked good, bread, or dessert.
  • EXCEPTIONS: Homemade coconut/flax waffles, cassava tortillas and crusts, homemade fries, packaged coconut flakes, 100% cacao bars.
  • NEVER ALLOWED IN THE HOUSE BUT YES AT RESTAURANTS OR SPECIAL OCCASIONS: Butter or Oils cooked on foods that are unavoidable (ex: burger grilled with non compliant oil, this does not mean wings are ok because they are deep fried in oil- that is avoidable), nuts, nut butters, seeds, sauces made with fruit, coconut butter, higher quality bacon
  • #1 Overall Rule: No matter how bad the cravings, even if I give in and binge, NEVER binge on anything but YES foods. 

This is awesome!  Love the way you've done it and that you'll check in every 30 days to see how things are going... make sure that you're keeping track of things that work and things that don't so when the 30 day mark rolls around you don't have to dig back into your memory!  

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@SugarcubeOD yeah I actually thought I would make a chart that has these categories to log: Specific food/Benefits or consequences after eating/ Worth it or not/ How it currently fits in my food freedom or not. This way I can Log Yes and No foods and write the consequences of the foods I usually binge on as a reminder of why they are not good and NOT worth it,  But I can also have the Yes foods that I find work the best for me at that point in my food freedom evolution to help stay focused on making good decisions. 

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  • Just wanted to check in, I've had a really great first few days. I know it won't last so I'm enjoying it while it does! I had recently went back to food tracking and counting calories/macros so it feels really freeing to not be doing that. I just have to work on listening to my body now, and I've been trying to keep notes (aka journal) daily. I also starting hitting the gym more consistently the last couple of weeks so that may be part of why I'm feeling good.

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I also know my good days won’t last, but it’s good so far! I too love not counting calories, but it’s so engrained in my head from doing it for years that I find it really hard not to do it subconsciously. I know how many calories are in everything, so I’m purposely trying to portion  and eat stuff in ways that make it impossible for me to count. So far so good. Hoping to experiment with some new recipes this weekend because I’ve been eating way too much of the same thing lately. 

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I've enjoyed reading this thred, it resonates with me.  I've never considered myself having a binge eating disorder, but my pre W30 relationship with food was similar.  Eating healthy at home, I would find myself going out of my way on the road to have a 2nd breakfast or 2nd lunch or 1st dinner.  I could always 'justify' the action / expense.  Even when the food didn't really taste that great or I knew it would make me feel like crap later.

Looking ahead towards reintroduction, I woder why bother at all?  I understand the value of identifying the foods that adversly affect ones system, but why spoil a good thing?  If W30 is a good experience overall, instead of reward / binge, just extend the experience to W50...W100...W365,as some have suggested here.  I don't understand the minset of a badfood reward after reaching a goodfood goal that many people seem to report.  Or maybe it's semantics, because I have justified my bad food decisions.

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@T2Andrew I definitely see where you are coming from and I too had that same mindset for a while, like why ever stray from this if it’s the healthiest and best way. But then I think about long term and as Melissa talks about in “food Freedom forever” there are certain foods that you can hopefully develop a healthy enough relationship with that they become “worth it” foods on special occasions. It’s really hard to maintain Whole30 in social situations, and just for my mentality, I don’t want to think that all the other foods are “evil binge foods.” For me I want to work towards the point where I can be comfortable around those foods and not feel out of control or anxious if they are in front of me, but rather make the educated decision of whether or not I truly want that food at that moment, and if so, is it really worth it at the stage I’m at in my recovery. Everyone is different, and I do plan on eating essentially paleo/Whole30 long term, but developing that healthier relationship with all food is my (and a lot of other binge eaters) goal I think. 

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Mind if I join in?  Is this the main thread or is there a post W30 log somewhere?  I've been a binge eater for a looooooong time.  W30 always helps and I feel great but I've yet to tip into "food freedom" territory.  I did really great about 1.5 years ago.   I was binge free for 5 weeks but also eating all sorts of foods with no breaks during that time and was still fine!  Then got pregnant.  The first 4-5 months after little man was born I was really free from binge urges but these last few months they've been bad.  Really bad.  I think having a place to be reminded of not being alone and seeing some of the strategies other people use to help them not binge eat would be great.  

Personally, Brain Over Binge was a really good read for me that totally resonated.  The basic premise is that one only binges to get rid of the urge to binge.  Sounds crazy but if I really sit and think about that it makes total sense.  The rational me doesn't want to binge.  I know its bad for me.  I know it makes me feel like physical and emotional crap.  But I just want.to.do.it.so.badly.  So I do it... to get rid of the feeling of wanting to do it.  Does that make any sense?  

 

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1 hour ago, littleg said:

Mind if I join in?  Is this the main thread or is there a post W30 log somewhere?  I've been a binge eater for a looooooong time.  W30 always helps and I feel great but I've yet to tip into "food freedom" territory.  I did really great about 1.5 years ago.   I was binge free for 5 weeks but also eating all sorts of foods with no breaks during that time and was still fine!  Then got pregnant.  The first 4-5 months after little man was born I was really free from binge urges but these last few months they've been bad.  Really bad.  I think having a place to be reminded of not being alone and seeing some of the strategies other people use to help them not binge eat would be great.  

Personally, Brain Over Binge was a really good read for me that totally resonated.  The basic premise is that one only binges to get rid of the urge to binge.  Sounds crazy but if I really sit and think about that it makes total sense.  The rational me doesn't want to binge.  I know its bad for me.  I know it makes me feel like physical and emotional crap.  But I just want.to.do.it.so.badly.  So I do it... to get rid of the feeling of wanting to do it.  Does that make any sense?  

 

This is the thread :)  Always glad to see you g!

I don't have this particular affliction but your point about only doing it to get rid of the urge resonates with me as a food addicted person... if I really stop and talk to myself about it, then I can rationalize that I don't want xyz, it won't make me feel good, I just 'think' I want it... but that only works when you're present... which isn't all the time... I imagine its the same with binging... 

I do try and get out ahead of my sugar addiction by making sure I eat 3 compliant meals a day so that when I check in with myself before a sugar fest that I can actually truly say 'no, you're not hungry, youre just craving'... 

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As far as I’m comcerned, the more the merrier in this thread! Not that I hope more people have problems with binging, but different viewpoints, Ideas, and extra support is always so helpful. I honestly come to check this thread every single time I have an urge in the last week and it’s immediately calming and kinda brings me back to a mindful state. Like tonight, we just had a HUGE dinner because we are butchering the deer my fiancé killed. It was more of a meal in stages and we were just eating different meats and other dishes I made for like 2 hours. It’s hard for me to stay in control in a situation like that because I’m not just sitting down with a visible and controlled portion on my plate. So I really tried to listen to my stomach, but it was all so good that I’m definitely overly full now. I don’t know about anyone else, but just the feeling of fullness and knowing I ate a ton is always a huge trigger for me. Kind of like the “ok I’ve over done it so I might as well keep going.” Instead tonight though, I took one more bite, and said “ok, you are full now. You don’t need anymore. Go check the Whole30 thread to calm your mind. It totally worked. And just giving it that 3-5 minutes to pass really does work sometimes. (But not always). Anyways, just once again so thankful that there are other people I can reach out to right now and I hope we continue to communicate and support each other here through our Whole30 journeys! 

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Love this thread.  @Dragonslayer Agreed on your rules although I may work in the very occasional glass of wine if it's worth it.  My major triggers are sugar, dried fruit and nuts.  Overeating too.  And I know from doing W30s that grains and dairy are not my friend.  So I am largely template with some modifications.  I know too that I need to be super careful with fruit as i use that to calm (ha ha) my sugar dragon.  We all know how that works out.  I so appreciate this thread as sometimes it feels like I am the only person in the world wrestling with this and I feel like such a failure.  @littleg I also read Brain over Binge and agree it makes a TON of sense.  I think that I need to reread it!!  Onward and upward and I will be checking in and trying to post daily from now one.  Today is day 1 of my new beginning.  Thank you for all of the support.

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@SugarcubeOD Eating real food in healthy amounts is what makes me feel my best binge wise.  I'm not surprised to hear it helps with craving sugar too.  I think sugar is evolutionarily our body's way of accessing quick, easy energy... so when you don't fuel well... your brain says "oh, I know, a hit of sugar will help me out of this caloric debt" and so you feel a sugar craving.  But when your body is fueled well... its like you don't even want it.  Have you noticed that when you eat well you don't even *want* the sugary stuff or that you just have an easier time turing it away?  I definitely notice that my binge urges go away when I'm eating template meals and timing (<-- my struggle, cough, cough, meal 1). 

@Dragonslayer I'm so glad to hear the thread helps calm you down!  I have a lot more time alone these days (stay at home mom at present) and baby's afternoon nap time is tough for me... I'm usually hungry but waiting for him to wake up so we can eat together - so I get a little snack, then another snack... then boom I've eaten the pantry.  So instead, I'll sit down and read over this thread :) 

That venison buffet seems great.  And also like the kind of thing that it is ok to overeat a little of ;) But I'm still glad you were able to eat, maybe just a *bit* too much and then stop!  

@hmg1993 Love BOB.  I tend to take it out when I'm struggling the most.  I'm not sure it helps (because, or else I wouldn't be here) but I do find that like dragonslayer said, sometimes just having something to focus on for a few minutes is what can get you out of the first bite.  

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So I have a question.  I never purchased FFF but I think I skimmed it at the bookstore.  Or maybe I saw a blog post from Melissa... anyway... she mentioned eating a Justin's peanut butter cup daily (maybe daily, at least pretty frequently).  I have always struggled with needing *something* after dinner.  Lots of time its fruit (read: to much fruit).  Sometimes I white knuckle it through not having anything.  But I'm wondering if maybe something like the peanut butter cups, that come in packs of 2, with a nice cup of tea or something might be good... Do you guys do desserts?  Sweets are always my binge choice (never chips, fries, things like that) so I'm a little nervous.  But a part of me also thinks having ONE thing like that might be good.  Anyway, just tossing it out there.  Obviously not W30 but maybe Wlittleg.  Thoughts?  

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@littleg I keep 100% cacao bars and either shredded coconut or coconut butter in my pantry for those times I feel I want something sweet. They don’t have any sugar and the cacao is bitter but once you get used to it it’s actually very good. And my favorite is to have a square of the cacao with a slab of coconut butter on top... or you could make your own cups by simply melting the cacao, adding a little coconut oil, pour into mini muffin tin pans and fill halfway with whatever you want! Almond butter is really good, as well as coconut butter, or a nut butter/date mixture in the food processor would also work well as a filling. Then just pop in fridge to harden. 

I also resonated with BOB. It’s just not so simple to just say it’s a habit and stop yourself for everyone though. If any of you are looking for other good reads, try any of Geneen Roth’s books; (looks more at the emotional relationship with food) as well as “Eating, Drinking, Overthinking”, and “The Power of Habit.” All very helpful and interesting. And if you want to learn more about the science behind the sugar and carb addiction, our gut, etc, “Grain Brain” by David perlmutter and “The Case Against Sugar” by Gary Taubes are good. I basically have a huge library of books in all categories related to bingeing, food, science, etc so I have lots of suggestions if any of you need! 

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@Dragonslayer I've got the same library ;) I'm not sure I've tried Roth's books though.  Did she write Intuitive Eating or something?  I read one book form the camp of "de-villianize bad foods" and didn't love it.  There was a lot in there about food fulfilling other needs and I guess after BOB and Rational Recovery I just don't really believe that.  I'm not eating because I'm happy, sad, etc.  I'm eating because I have an urge to shove food in my face and that is it.  When I don't have an urge to binge I don't binge.  The 5 weeks of "freedom" right before I got pregnant really solidified that for me.  I sometimes had the urge to eat something sweet (a usual binge food, like candy that is always in the break room as an RN) and I could eat a few pieces and then *legitimately* be done, like a normal person!  Nothing else changed in those 5 weeks, I simply didn't have an urge to binge.  I did 3 phone consultations with a woman who specializes in compulsive eating recovery loosely based on BOB and it just clicked.  Unfortunately the cravings that came with pregnancy undid any progress :)  

 

I haven't looked at E,D,O or the Power of Habit though - I'll check those out!

 

Thanks!

 

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@littleg I love the concept of the peanut butter cup but I also know for me that sugar is a major trigger and right now I don’t trust myself to go there. I love the idea though that this could be a goal. Another goal of mine is to knock it off with the slavish devotion to logging everything I eat in MyFitnessPal! Would love to hear from anyone on this thread that has conquered this demon as I’d like this to be one of my rules i.e. not doing it! But it’s such a security blanket for me (truth be told though when I binge there’s some selective non-entry!). I’ve embraced the no weigh in but this crutch is harder!

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@hmg1993 I was a chronic logger.  I just stopped.  Cold turkey.  Haven't used it in years.  I didn't gain 100 lbs.  

What makes you log each day?  Do you log before you eat (to help you figure out what/how much to eat) or after (to see how much more you can eat) (<-- that was me) or for some other reason?  How does not logging your food make you feel?  Like if I took away your MFP access for a day or a week?  

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@littlegI am generally before I eat as I tend to plan my meals but then I add throughout the day.  I’m tracking both calories and exercise and watching for going above 1400. Btw, I may be 10lbs-15lbs above my ideal weight (and my ideal is not unrealistic or too thin). If you took it away I would irrationally fear going over my limit!! I also get hooked on the “hmg has logged her food for more than 900 days malarkey”

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I don't mean for these questions to sound snarky.  I only ask these because they are the questions that made me realize the futility of what I was doing.

1) Where did 1400 come from?  Has sticking to that target let you lose or maintain a weight that otherwise you couldn't?

2) Do you have any trust in your body to tell you when it is hungry or full?  What if you were legitimately hungry (like wanted fish and broccoli) but had eaten 1398 calories.  What would you do?  Or what if you had eaten 700 but had no interest in eating - would you eat anyway?  

3) What happens when MFP gives slightly different calories for a food item and you aren't sure which one to go with?  Do you ever think about how in real life, in the intricate and amazing human body, metabolism -  driven by processes scientists don't even fully understand - might cause that "beef patty" you ate to yield 250 kcals or 300 kcals or 350 kcals and.you'll.never.really.know?  Or that the apple you ate might really have 80 calories or it might be some fancy shmancy new variety with more sugar and have 120 in it?

When I thought about these questions I realized... I had been logging for for more than 5 years and it didn't seem to matter.  My weight was unchanged.  I had no trust in my body (that is why I logged...) but when I forced myself to it turns out *most* of the time I actually do get hungry and full :) And #3 is really what got me.  Taubes' Why We Get Fat was a lightbulb moment for me.  He had a section where he talked about "if calories really mattered" if you overate by 1 oreo a day (~50 calories) you'd gain, I don't remember, say 10 lbs in a year or something.  But that doesn't ever really happen.   99% of the world is NOT recording their calories to be in some caloric balance and yet somehow most people are not gaining 10 lbs a year by eating a measly 50 calories more per day.  Which really made me realize that these numbers I was getting everyday really were meaningless.  And causing me a lot of anxiety (what if I'm out - I can't log my calories! gasp!).  So I just stopped.  I'm not going to lie there were some days where I'd think back at the end of the day about what I ate and log it but eventually that stopped too.  And now.  Never.  And if you don't believe me... check out my first post ever on this forum :) Reading between the lines about using my food scale was the fact that I needed a scale so I could accurately record my calories ;)

 

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@littleg you are the best and I didn’t find your questions remotely snarky. And, I don’t have good answers! So I need to reflect within on the why and wean myself off. To your point I need to go back to trusting myself, if I ever did! I hope this doesn’t sound pathetic or superficial but I genuinely want to lose a little weight. I think I know how to eat to achieve that and then the binging yo yo’s me right back. I view this process we’re on now as hopefully part of the recovery process and appreciate the support 

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16 minutes ago, hmg1993 said:

@littleg you are the best and I didn’t find your questions remotely snarky. And, I don’t have good answers! So I need to reflect within on the why and wean myself off. To your point I need to go back to trusting myself, if I ever did! I hope this doesn’t sound pathetic or superficial but I genuinely want to lose a little weight. I think I know how to eat to achieve that and then the binging yo yo’s me right back. I view this process we’re on now as hopefully part of the recovery process and appreciate the support 

The amazing thing about the human body is that it knows what weight it is most efficient at... so if you concentrate on being HEALTHY instead of losing weight, your body will do its own processes to get to that ideal point.. and the 'bad' news is that maybe your body likes that 10 pounds you don't like... 

Focus on your health, fuelling your body and if your body wants to drop some weight, it will happen... honestly!  And really try and free yourself from those arbitrary numbers, they do nothing but put stress (whether you notice it or not) on your body and mind and that is a sure fire way to get your body to save everything because it doesn't understand where the stress is coming from... but historically stress in part meant potential lack of food... 

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@hmg1993 I also used to compulsively log, and honestly still struggle with not doing it subconsciously in my head some days. But I also agree with @littleg. I stopped cold turkey for many of those same reasons. It was hard at first, but one day, I just got so fed up that I threw my scale in the dumpster, deleted all my calorie counting apps, and forced myself to not look at any nutrition labels. I wasn't perfect, but over time it gets easier. One thing I did at first that you may want to try is that I wouldnt log anything all day and just try and eat intuitively, and then at night in bed, I would do a log of what I ate from that day to see how it compared calorie wise to a day I would have logged obsessively. I came to find out that what I ended up eating without tracking was a very similar number to my logs. Not always below my ideal, sometimes below, sometimes above, but it balanced out. It's just all about learning to trust yourself. 

Also, I know everyone has totally different caloric needs, but just as a comparison, I was also following a goal of 1400 when I was tracking, and when I realized I might have started binging because I wasn't giving my body enough energy, I raised my limit to 1800. I felt so much better and had way less cravings for a long time. and didnt gain any weight. actually ended up losing weight. At this point today, I probably eat between 2000-2500 calories per day (in addition to my binges) and I still haven't gained weight.  @SugarcubeOD is right, your body will remain at its natural weight once you get there just naturally as long as you eat healthy and try to keep a balance. I am not even always balanced because of the binging but my body is so amazing that it works to keep me at the same size. I learned (and am still learning) not to stress about the overeating as much for this reason. I'm also learning that more calories is better. I'm only 5'4" and 125 pounds and 2500 calories may seem like a lot, but especially with whole30 foods, Im finding that that is what I feel best at most days maintaining. Just a different perspective for you to see. But honestly I still count in my head some days just out of habit and am always focusing on NOT doing it each day. I know how hard it is. 

@littleg The Roth books are a little more about the emotions behind the eating, which I too dont always agree with, but she does have a lot of other valid points and helpful strategies that I was able to relate to. And You would love the Power of Habit. Its one of my favorites. So interesting. 

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@Dragonslayer Is this it? The power of habit : why we do what we do in life and business / Charles Duhigg

As usual Sugarcube has great insight.  Nourishing your body is a way better goal than denying/limiting your body!  What kind of exercising are you doing @hmg1993 - could you set goals there besides burning calories?  I saw my biggest improvement in body comp when I did a W60 (with no measuring/weighing etc) and changed my goals at crossfit to be PRing instead of grinding out long metcons to burn calories.  And I also agree with @Dragonslayer that maybe 1400 calories per day is a little low... unless you are elderly and not moving much :) I would say I'm in line with her - 2000-2500 calories most days (I'd guess - I eat A LOT of fat so I don't know how it could be much lower).  And, even though I'm 10 years older now I'm able to maintain my weight on this level of calories when in the days of food logging, 1800 calories of crap made me quite fluffy.  Let us know what you decide to do with the logging.  Maybe you could just write on here what you eat in a day but not log it.  We can let you know if something seems way off!

 

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