Pleasure feeding

[AlfieMani]

Hi all,

New to the forum and to the plan.  Is any sort of pleasure feeding allowed (mastication without swallowing) during the 30 days just to get the flavor in but without taking in any of the forbidden stuff?

Thanks,

Alfie

[SugarcubeOD]

1 minute ago, AlfieMani said:

Hi all,

New to the forum and to the plan.  Is any sort of pleasure feeding allowed (mastication without swallowing) during the 30 days just to get the flavor in but without taking in any of the forbidden stuff?

Thanks,

Alfie

I honestly don't know that I've ever heard this question, however I would say no.  Same reason we don't allow gum chewing, it gets your stomach acids going in preparation for food without sending any food down. It also is not in line with our efforts to encourage a healthy relationship with food.

[SugarcubeOD]

I just looked up Pleasure Feeding and it looks like it's mostly done by people with a feeding tube.  If that's the case for you, in your context then I would say that if that's something you wanted to do, definitely go ahead but you still would not want to be masticating the non compliant options. If you do not have a feeding tube or any medical need to 'pleasure eat' then I would go back to my first answer and say no.

 

[AlfieMani]

Oh poo...if I had a pleasure feeding episode on day 8 does that mean I need to start over?  The first 8 days were so hard but I stuck with it and then a co worker had a birthday with chocolate truffle cake with butter cream frosting and I lost my mind.  I couldn't help myself and thought it would be ok just to taste it as long as I didn't swallow.  I even made sure to rinse my mouth out and brush my teeth before swallowing anything to make sure that nothing went down.

Alfie

[ShannonM816]

Read through this and decide for yourself how you want to proceed:   https://whole30.com/2014/06/really-start-whole30/

You might also want to think about other options for rewarding yourself that don't involve food, and maybe also think about what you want to get out of your whole30 and why it's important to you -- having these figured out may help you stay on track better going forward.

[AlfieMani]

1 hour ago, ShannonM816 said:

Read through this and decide for yourself how you want to proceed:   https://whole30.com/2014/06/really-start-whole30/

You might also want to think about other options for rewarding yourself that don't involve food, and maybe also think about what you want to get out of your whole30 and why it's important to you -- having these figured out may help you stay on track better going forward.

Thanks for the response!  I think I'll go with option 4 because I was extra extra careful not to actually ingest anything and didn't realize the rule about pleasure feeding.  Plus the first 8 days has been awful and I don't want to go through that again.  I was having trouble concentrating, getting massive headaches and had 2 episodes of incontinence.  Everything is getting better but very gradually and hoping things will continue down this path.    

[laura_juggles]

I know that we're all adults here and there are no Whole30 police showing up at your door telling you that you have to restart, but I've got to say (in part for you and in part for future readers) that your situation doesn't feel to me like option 4 (aka someone said there was no sugar added and then said there was honey in it "but honey is natural") at all. 

You knew that that cake was non-compliant and you still put it in your mouth. Whether you feel like you got every single molecule of it out of your mouth without swallowing, a huge part of the Whole30 is breaking the mental addiction to cakes and sweets and whatnot. 

If you restart right away, you'll have already been through those hardest first days and you're just resetting the counter. 

You do you, but I think it'd be massively helpful for you in the long run to figure out why you "lost your mind" around a cake to the point where you convinced yourself that it was okay to eat it, but spit it out before swallowing it all. It wasn't the last cake in the world. There will still be cakes when you're not doing a Whole30.

[jmcbn]

On 3/3/2018 at 5:11 AM, AlfieMani said:

I was having trouble concentrating, getting massive headaches and had 2 episodes of incontinence.

Can you give us a run down of what a few typical days looked like for you? Sounds like maybe your meals might need some tweaking... 

[AlfieMani]

6 hours ago, laura_juggles said:

I know that we're all adults here and there are no Whole30 police showing up at your door telling you that you have to restart, but I've got to say (in part for you and in part for future readers) that your situation doesn't feel to me like option 4 (aka someone said there was no sugar added and then said there was honey in it "but honey is natural") at all. 

You knew that that cake was non-compliant and you still put it in your mouth. Whether you feel like you got every single molecule of it out of your mouth without swallowing, a huge part of the Whole30 is breaking the mental addiction to cakes and sweets and whatnot. 

If you restart right away, you'll have already been through those hardest first days and you're just resetting the counter. 

You do you, but I think it'd be massively helpful for you in the long run to figure out why you "lost your mind" around a cake to the point where you convinced yourself that it was okay to eat it, but spit it out before swallowing it all. It wasn't the last cake in the world. There will still be cakes when you're not doing a Whole30.

I never said I didn't know the cake was noncompliant. But I didn't actually ingest anything which to me is worse than actually ingesting sugar whether it's purposefully or accidentally. What I didn't know (and I'm sure a lot of others didn't know) is that pleasure feeding also needs to fit the plan. So the context I'm using for not restarting is under the main heading :"We can see a circumstance in which you wouldn't." No sugar ingested, no harm, no foul.

Tbh I'm only trying this because this girl I'm into is stuck in this plan and I'm showing her what lengths, no matter how ridiculous, I'll go to to support her. I really can't see the benefit of W30 vs other more sensible eating habits but once I start something I'll see it through. Who knows, maybe I'll feel better about it after but I definitely don't want to go through that first week again especially if I didn't haven't any sugars and only broke an obscure rule that no one seemed to know about anyway. 

And not sure why you say I ate it when I didn't: "

eat

ēt/

verb

1. 1.

   put (food) into the mouth and chew and swallow it."

    

   But hey, if it makes you happy to judge my decisions I think it'd be massively helpful for you in the long run to figure out why you feel the need to do so

[ladyshanny]

22 minutes ago, AlfieMani said:

pleasure feeding also needs to fit the plan.

Chewing and spitting is a recognised disordered eating pattern. If you had a feeding tube and were "pleasure feeding", the items would have to be compliant in order to stay on Whole30. Since you do not have a feeding tube, there is no reason for you to chew and spit outside of a recognised eating disorder. Alas, no one here is qualified to counsel or assist with this; you are always encouraged to seek outside help.

https://www.eatingdisorders.org.au/eating-disorders/disordered-eating-a-dieting/chewing-and-spitting

 

[SugarcubeOD]

27 minutes ago, AlfieMani said:

 No sugar ingested, no harm, no foul.

 

Hey there!  It's not just the sugar, it's wheat, dairy and maybe soy.  while you may not have intentionally swallowed, cake, being a soft food would most certainly have liquified enough that some may have drained into your throat.  We don't allow people to eat around beans and legumes/grains in soup or stews because of cross contamination so sugar would be the least of the concerns.

A final word - you asked if this was okay and you got responses back.  You cannot control the responses you get to be only favorable to what you want to hear and everyone has been nothing but polite.

[slc_melissa]

So, maybe "eat" isn't the strictly correct technical term.  Say the Whole30 doesn't permit digestion of the off plan ingredients, but that would sound fairly strange to say it that way to many, "eat" seems to cover it for 99.999% of folks, so I wouldn't exactly call it an obscure rule.  Chemical digestion begins with saliva in the mouth as enzymes break down foods.  

[ShannonM816]

1 hour ago, AlfieMani said:

Tbh I'm only trying this because this girl I'm into is stuck in this plan and I'm showing her what lengths, no matter how ridiculous, I'll go to to support her. I really can't see the benefit of W30 vs other more sensible eating habits but once I start something I'll see it through. Who knows, maybe I'll feel better about it after but I definitely don't want to go through that first week again especially if I didn't haven't any sugars and only broke an obscure rule that no one seemed to know about anyway. 

So, a couple of things. First, if the girl is into you, you don't need to go to ridiculous lengths to support her -- you need to let her make her decisions around food, and respect her decisions, even if you disagree with them (assuming she's not actively harming herself, which is something different entirely). If you have her over for dinner, or invite her out for dinner, make sure there are foods she can have that fit within the plan, even if there are also foods that don't, that you choose to consume. That's what support is -- making sure she can do what she wants to do, not sabotaging her efforts, and not ridiculing them either to her face or when she can't hear/see what you're saying. Just as a matter of being polite, probably don't have her very favorite off-plan thing when you're with her if you happen to know what that is -- i.e., if you know she loves mac & cheese, and you go someplace with amazing mac & cheese, maybe don't order that, you can live without it for a meal, and that way you don't set her up to have more cravings for it. 

Second, the first week is crappy because it's such a big change from what you did before. One day, one bite, of an off-plan item, is generally not enough to make you go through everything from the first week again. You might have some effects from it -- most often, stronger cravings for sweets -- but your body is already on the way to being used to this way of eating, so it's unlikely that you'll experience the same things, like headaches or moodiness that many people have that first week. Many times for people who have something off-plan early in their Whole30 and aren't sure if they want to restart, we'll recommend they just keep going and see how they feel on day 30 -- many of them decide at that point they feel good enough that they just tack on however many days to the end so they do end up with 30 days straight of compliant foods.

Finally, if you are going to continue doing this, try to get into it, instead of looking for loopholes. It's 30 days of your life, not forever. If you can't go without cake for 30 days, that's a thing you probably ought to look at and figure out why. You may not see the point of Whole30, but all we really are asking is that you give it a fair chance. It really does change many people's lives completely, and you never know, you might be one of those people. If you're not, if you finish 30 days, what have you lost? The food can be really good, and frankly, if you're like most people, it'll probably be the most vegetables you've eaten in a month ever so it's not like it's going to be bad for you.

[AlfieMani]

18 hours ago, ladyshanny said:

Chewing and spitting is a recognised disordered eating pattern. If you had a feeding tube and were "pleasure feeding", the items would have to be compliant in order to stay on Whole30. Since you do not have a feeding tube, there is no reason for you to chew and spit outside of a recognised eating disorder. Alas, no one here is qualified to counsel or assist with this; you are always encouraged to seek outside help.

https://www.eatingdisorders.org.au/eating-disorders/disordered-eating-a-dieting/chewing-and-spitting

 

Thanks for the info but like you said no one here is qualified to counsel or assist much less diagnose. I've never done that before and I certainly don't plan on doing it again. 

[TJHigh]

I'm certainly not qualified for counseling people or diagnosing people - I'm not even a moderator here, let alone a doc.  But my personal take is that if you're doing W30 just to impress/support a girl and for you that involves incontinence and chewing and spitting out cake, there are probably better ways to go about it.  

[AlfieMani]

18 hours ago, SugarcubeOD said:

Hey there!  It's not just the sugar, it's wheat, dairy and maybe soy.  while you may not have intentionally swallowed, cake, being a soft food would most certainly have liquified enough that some may have drained into your throat.  We don't allow people to eat around beans and legumes/grains in soup or stews because of cross contamination so sugar would be the least of the concerns.

A final word - you asked if this was okay and you got responses back.  You cannot control the responses you get to be only favorable to what you want to hear and everyone has been nothing but polite.

Umm yeah I know I can't control responses from people who have nothing better to do than to police my life and if they want to come into my thread and comment they are free to do so...BUT I have the same right to comment back and the same right to decide for myself whether or not it involves a reset according to the plan. 

So unless you are 1. Certified to be an official W30 referee commissioned by the W30 high counsel to revoke my W30 card and 2. You were privy to instant replay that shows indesputable evidence of any cake going down my esophagus, kindly pick up and repocket your yellow flag. 

I asked for a response and got it and was satisfied with that. I'm fine with more busybodies feeling the need to comment further and I'm also fine with engaging said people offering opinions of my own in a civil manner. 

[AlfieMani]

17 hours ago, ShannonM816 said:

So, a couple of things. First, if the girl is into you, you don't need to go to ridiculous lengths to support her -- you need to let her make her decisions around food, and respect her decisions, even if you disagree with them (assuming she's not actively harming herself, which is something different entirely). If you have her over for dinner, or invite her out for dinner, make sure there are foods she can have that fit within the plan, even if there are also foods that don't, that you choose to consume. That's what support is -- making sure she can do what she wants to do, not sabotaging her efforts, and not ridiculing them either to her face or when she can't hear/see what you're saying. Just as a matter of being polite, probably don't have her very favorite off-plan thing when you're with her if you happen to know what that is -- i.e., if you know she loves mac & cheese, and you go someplace with amazing mac & cheese, maybe don't order that, you can live without it for a meal, and that way you don't set her up to have more cravings for it. 

Second, the first week is crappy because it's such a big change from what you did before. One day, one bite, of an off-plan item, is generally not enough to make you go through everything from the first week again. You might have some effects from it -- most often, stronger cravings for sweets -- but your body is already on the way to being used to this way of eating, so it's unlikely that you'll experience the same things, like headaches or moodiness that many people have that first week. Many times for people who have something off-plan early in their Whole30 and aren't sure if they want to restart, we'll recommend they just keep going and see how they feel on day 30 -- many of them decide at that point they feel good enough that they just tack on however many days to the end so they do end up with 30 days straight of compliant foods.

Finally, if you are going to continue doing this, try to get into it, instead of looking for loopholes. It's 30 days of your life, not forever. If you can't go without cake for 30 days, that's a thing you probably ought to look at and figure out why. You may not see the point of Whole30, but all we really are asking is that you give it a fair chance. It really does change many people's lives completely, and you never know, you might be one of those people. If you're not, if you finish 30 days, what have you lost? The food can be really good, and frankly, if you're like most people, it'll probably be the most vegetables you've eaten in a month ever so it's not like it's going to be bad for you.

Ha ha thanks for the dating advice! I'm not dictating what she's doing but just trying to show moral support. I'm hoping that in itself are huge bonus points to offset my lethargy and incontinence.

I didn't get into W30 for the same reasons as a lot of you but I'm willing to give it a run for the full 30. Not actively looking for loopholes but rather trying to see if something that was spontaneously done could be repeated or not. Got my answer and thanks for the support.