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I keep thinking I should just give up...


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I'm having a constant battle in my brain - I'm trying to reason with myself that if I just give in today and get in one more big binge, I can just start again tomorrow - and tomorrow will somehow be magically different. Then my logic kicks in and I know that's just crazy.

The email today (Day 16) talked about people wanting to reward themselves because their feeling better, looking better, worked so hard ... but that is not the case at all - I haven't had ANY positive side effects at all ... in fact, the negatives just keep popping up - what's up with that?

I keep saying patience, patience - and reading to be patience, but my brain is telling me different - if I'm going to feel this crappy, I might as well eat the things I like ...

It seems like most people have some kind of positive by now on these boards, so it's pretty much making me feel even worse.

I haven't logged my food because that's one of the diet'y' things that I hate and spins me back into eating disorder behaviours. I've read the book, I've printed all of the tools on the website, I've made my own mayo - I can pretty much guarantee that I'm 99.9% compliant - many people suggested more fat, so I've even up the amount I use.

I work out, I meditate, I drink kombucha ... I feel like I'm going a bit crazy :(

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Hey, Chelle. All I can say is that I've been there. No amount of tough love ever got me through it either. I had to enter a program, and even then getting 'clean' from my "alcoholic" foods has been such a struggle! Especially if you deal with disordered eating, it may take some time, or additional help for emotional support. I know I have to log my food in some form to be honest with myself. Putting it out here helps me to be accountable to follow through. Most of the time the thing we are craving is more than we think it is. Have you had any sweet potatoes, or bananas, or blueberries? I'm not saying to binge on them, but maybe things are too black and white for you right now. Try adding in one more mini meal if you feel legitimate physical hunger. I am always amazed at how strong my ED is. It can talk me into all sorts of stuff, and masks itself as hunger a lot of the time. If it is not emotional hunger and you are adding in a bit of fruit, then I'd try to look deeper...spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically, and in terms of life stress. When I look deeper through writing, praying, talking, meditation, yoga, long walks, I find it hardly ever is the food, but something inside that is off. Drink some water, breathe, take some kind of positive action and the answers will come to you. Good luck, and lots of love!!!

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Hang in there. I know it can feel overwhelmingly difficult when you don't see yourself getting the results you want, especially if you feel everyone else is doing great. My first W30, I felt like crap a lot of the time. I got nausea, I got enteritis, I just kept telling myself "If I feel this bad eating really good food, how awful will I feel if I give in and eat crap". I ended up doing a W60 and then I was 90+% compliant after that. I'm now doing another W30 to keep it really clean.

I never felt the 'magic' that some people seem to feel but then I probably have more health issues than most. I genuinley feel this is the healthiest thing you can do for your body and my gains may have been smaller than some people get and may have taken longer to manifest but they are so worth it. So hang in there, you will break through, honestly and you really are worth it.

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One more thought. I know as women sometimes we are driven to go, go, go. I don't know if you a perfectionist like I am, but I sometimes get really caught up on the 'shoulds' in life. I should be doing this; I should be feeling that; I should, should, should. Sometimes we just need to be gentle with ourselves and remain where we are, at peace with life. I had to scale back my workouts. In my quiet time, I realized that I was driving myself too hard for an ideal of perfection during this process, but honestly my body is saying to take walks more, drink more water, rest! (This is my Whole30 and it's going to be tailored to me, not anyone else.) I think we are afraid to rest our bodies. If your body is saying time-out, take a listen. I know I must sound like some new age hippie here, but really I am high strung and like action. I am finding my balance in being sill lately and throwing out the 'shoulds'.

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I haven't logged my food because that's one of the diet'y' things that I hate and spins me back into eating disorder behaviours.

Good for you for recognizing this and honouring your own needs. For me, too, food logging is diet-y and triggering.

And I too have felt like crap for much of this W30 due to it triggering an surprise menstrual period (!), the worst one I've had in ages. But like Kirsteen said -- eating non-whole food is not going to make us feel better. (OK, well, a hit of sugar usually makes me feel better, but only for a little while!)

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Chelle -

I can tell you're feeling really discouraged, and I'm really sorry to hear that! I apologize if I've missed it elsewhere (the forums have been crazy this week), but can you give us an idea of how you ARE feeling physically and maybe an idea of a typical day's food for you? We would love to help you identify whether your body just needs some more time, or if there are factors we can work with you to improve.

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Thanks so much everyone - the support does help somewhat.

Robin - I'm feeling really tired - morning, noon and night ... I go to bed (lights out) at 9:30pm and still have trouble waking up at 7am, then I'm tired on my hour drive to work, always have a mid afternoon slump, tired on my drive home, super tired by the time I get home (don't want to cook - just want to flop on the couch). This is how I feel on a regular basis - now and before I started W30.

Oh and I've had headaches almost every day (I don't usually) and I'm spotting (and never in my 18 years of periods have I ever spotted - never!). I don't have muscle fatigue - I get through my workouts fine - just feel lazy.

Other than asthma and depression I don't have any medical conditions - I visit my doctor and naturaopath regularly.

As for food - I can easily list out what I ate for the past couple of days -if it might help... in addition to this stuff I drink 4-5L of water, about 4oz of kombucha, 2 herbal teas each day

Thurs Jan 10

B: ground beef with onions and extra duck fat, kale/sweet potatoes/onions

Pre WO: 3 eggs in homemade mayo

(still to have) Post WO: ground beef with onions, mashed sweet potatoes

have pork roast in the slow cooker for tonight, will have spinach/small apple/a few strawberries juiced with it

Wed Jan 9

M1: kale/small apple/a few strawberries (I juice with a vitamix so I'm still getting the full fruit/veg), chicken thigh/leg with extra duck fat

M2: pork roast with extra duck fat, kale/sweet potatoes/onions (cooked in olive oil)

M3: ground beef cooked in duck fat with onions, kale/sweet potatoes/ onions

Tues Jan 8

M1: pork roast, kale/small apple/a few strawberries juiced

M2: 2 boiled eggs, a bit of pork roast extra duck fat, kale/sweet potatoes/onions in olive oil

M3: chicken thigh/leg (ate the skin from 2 of these), kale/sweet potatoes/onions

Other things I eat include bell peppers, whatever meat looks good at my butcher (all responsibly raised), tuna (with my mayo), salmon, white fish, homemade ranch and/or dill with celery, cucumbers ... hmm, there's probably more, but I typically get on a 'kick' where I can eat the same thing over and over and then I just move on to something else...

Going to try roasting some root veggies tonight or tomorrow night - I have the hardest time with veggies, so the juice is the only way I can get 2-3 cups of leafy greens into my day and I really like it.

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Sorry to hear things are rough; I'll give a quick stab at your food and then more knowledgable folks will chime in.

  • Are you eating enough (amounts)? Are you hungry?
  • I see some veggies but there could be a lot more... roasting veggies is a good idea. Soups? Salads? Eating veggies like chips and dipping them in mayo? The more veggies you can get in there, with as many different colors as possible, the better!
  • What was your eating like before? It does sound like you could be going through some big hormonal stuff, which isn't bad but can be uncomfortable.

Hang in there. It won't be different after one more binge and it sounds like you know that. Let your body keep doing its thing for awhile longer. Good luck! <hug>

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Thanks Emily.

I am not hungry. A lot of the time I have a hard time finishing what I put on my plate.

I have like 2-3 cups of kale or spinach in my "juice", when I have the kale/sweet potato/onion it fills 3/4 of a dinner plate, same with if I have raw veggies dipped in my ranch/dill, if it's a bell pepper I typically have 1/2 of the pepper at a time... honestly I don't think I could get much more down ...

I forgot, I do have bone broth (that I made) some days too - I just don't like it very much either, so I don't have a ton of it.

My eating before was horrible. I was either on a constant binge or trying to "diet" (for like a day before I went back to binge eating).

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To add to the posts above, I'd just like to day that every. single. day. that you don't binge, you are triumphing. Every. single. day. It may feel like hell. But it is triumph. You are working through deep, raw, agonizing stuff here. You may not feel great, or good, but you are not binging. This is huge, HUGE. I know you are getting support for your eating log above, and I just want to add in that from where you started, the binge/diet cycle, you have come a hugely long way in a very short time. Really. You have had nine days of triumph. It's absolutely true. You are not binging, and you are not dieting. Every part of you is screaming that you need to binge and diet, and you are responding with good food, over and over and over. You are doing so so so great.

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...well no, not really. It's not the timing of the smoothie, it's the contents.

Besides the fact that we REALLY discourage liquid foods on this program, raw kale and spinach can wreak havoc on thyroid function. Juicing them allows you to consume/absorb a much larger amount of these foods than you would otherwise be able to eat. This is a good thing for all the great nutrients in those two things, but it's really BAD for the amt of goitrogens that you're taking in.

It sounds like you have a bunch of hormonal stuff going on too (with the spotting, etc). I'm not saying that the smoothies are definitely the reason for everything, but it definitely CAN have an impact.

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I know that they said not to juice, but I still do for 2 reasons: 1. the vitamix is basically a blender, so the whole fruit/veg stays unlike a juicer that extracts the fiber, and 2. I figured it was better to do it than to not ... I'm so confused now about NOT having that much raw spinach or kale ... the guidelines say to fill the rest of your plate with veggies??

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Well blending it into a glass isn't really "filling your plate" with them, now is it? :)

Seriously though: you can't fit 2-3 cups of kale on a plate without it crowding everything else out. The guidelines say what they say for a reason. We aren't against liquid food because it strips fiber; we're against liquid food because the body responds to it differently and, in this case, because you have the potential to OD on some stuff that's normally limited by sheer volume of plant matter.

Again, I'm not saying with any certainty that this IS the answer to your lethargy...but it's the only thing that I see that could be playing a role. Why don't you ditch the juices/smoothies and branch out in your veggie choices? have some roasted carrots/broccoli, braise some cabbage, have some sauteed chard with garlic, sautee some mushrooms/onions/peppers together.

Note that my concern here is the amount of _raw_ goitrogens that you're consuming. Sauteed/blanched/roasted ones are okay, but varied sources are good!!

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Chelle, can I caution you against the juice/smoothies in the morning? That much raw kale can be a BITCH on thyroid function, which could be contributing to your lethargy.

How much are you sleeping?

Thanks for this info on kale...never knew certain veggies could have this sort of effect on the thyroid. I had some fresh veggie juice with one of my meals the other day, and I use a lot of kale. Now I won't make it a habit, but rare addition to my weekly roundup. Thanks!

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Ok, thanks Rene - cut down on raw leafy greens big time - on it ... I bought some root veggies on my way home so I'm going to try them out tomorrow night :)

So other than that, you think I'm doing ok? It just seems like I must be doing something more than that wrong ...

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Chelle, just to make sure we're all clear... you can keep eating the raw leafy greens, just eat them, don't drink them. I don't think you can over do kale or spinach by eating it--salads, kale chips, sautéd kale... check out some paleo websites for ideas, just keep the Whole30 guidelines in mind.

Also, I think AmyS said some really important stuff and is right; it sounds like by eating regular meals you are in the process of really changing your habits. Revel in that! It's only been ten days; give your body time and celebrate your new habits!

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I'm actually on Day 17 ... so that's why I'm so frustrated, but I agree with AmyS as well!

However, I think I'm just going to have to go with my own intuition on this business about the juice ... Renee said that the problem with my juice is the CONTENT - meaning too much raw kale wreaking havoc on my thyroid function...

Anyway, I appreciate the attempts to help - I wish someone had the answer ... I just want to feel better :(

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Chelle, just to make sure we're all clear... you can keep eating the raw leafy greens, just eat them, don't drink them. I don't think you can over do kale or spinach by eating it--salads, kale chips, sautéd kale... check out some paleo websites for ideas, just keep the Whole30 guidelines in mind.

However, I think I'm just going to have to go with my own intuition on this business about the juice ... Renee said that the problem with my juice is the CONTENT - meaning too much raw kale wreaking havoc on my thyroid function...

Sorry guys. I said a lot of stuff and was a little wishy-washy. You're both right.

Emily's right that in general, raw greens like spinach, kale, etc in normal amounts that actually fit on your plate are fine. Juicing them allows you to get a much LARGER quantity of that stuff, which could cause a problem.

IF this is the problem, you may just want to lay off the raw crucifers (kale, spinach, broccoli, etc) for a while, to give your body a rest. That doesn't mean you can't have these things cooked/sauteed...just try to avoid them in their raw state for a while.

Good luck, Chelle! Let us know if it helps or not!

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Well blending it into a glass isn't really "filling your plate" with them, now is it? :)

Seriously though: you can't fit 2-3 cups of kale on a plate without it crowding everything else out. The guidelines say what they say for a reason. We aren't against liquid food because it strips fiber; we're against liquid food because the body responds to it differently and, in this case, because you have the potential to OD on some stuff that's normally limited by sheer volume of plant matter.

Again, I'm not saying with any certainty that this IS the answer to your lethargy...but it's the only thing that I see that could be playing a role. Why don't you ditch the juices/smoothies and branch out in your veggie choices? have some roasted carrots/broccoli, braise some cabbage, have some sauteed chard with garlic, sautee some mushrooms/onions/peppers together.

Note that my concern here is the amount of _raw_ goitrogens that you're consuming. Sauteed/blanched/roasted ones are okay, but varied sources are good!!

I'm actually on Day 17 ... so that's why I'm so frustrated, but I agree with AmyS as well!

However, I think I'm just going to have to go with my own intuition on this business about the juice ... Renee said that the problem with my juice is the CONTENT - meaning too much raw kale wreaking havoc on my thyroid function...

Anyway, I appreciate the attempts to help - I wish someone had the answer ... I just want to feel better :(

Chelle, I hope you'll take this in the spirit intended...you need to at least try to do what Renee is suggesting. STOP juicing!! No juice for a Whole30. I don't know if it's the whole issue for you, but you are asking for advice and then continuing to go with your intuition.

I'm posting this because I do the same thing!! Not with juicing, but I do a lot of research and then think I "know best" and continue to fail to get results/reach my goals. Sometimes we need to surrender to the process and just DO IT.

I wish you all the best!!

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Renee, thank you so much for all the information on raw Kale and the like. Very helpful!!

Good luck Chelle. I hope the changes bring about some more energy and balance. And, I have a binge eating disorder so I applaud you on not binging. That is absolutly amazing! 17 days! I hope you know, as another poster said, that what you have done already is wonderful progress.

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based on Renee's advice, I have reduced the amount of RAW cruciferous for the last 2 days, but have not felt any difference ... in fact, I slept for 15 hours last night/into today, am still spotting, having headaches, heartburn and am still not having regular bm's ...

and just to be clear my "own research" is from ISWF (picture below is straight from the book) ... this does not apply to what I'm doing - I'm "juicing" vegetables, not getting rid of the fiber because I use a vitamix and have no satiety issues (usually go from breakfast at 7am to lunch at noon or 1pm without any problem at all) ...

perhaps the W30 just isn't for me - I really don't know what to do at this point ... probably going to try to finish out the whole 30 days, I just don't know how while feeling so crappy

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Sorry to hear you're feeling so pants.

It could be part of the healing process I guess? Like a healing crisis or something like that. It affects some people differently to others.

Because of the ED issues, I am a bit concerned you might be attached to the juicing because it's very low calorie.....do correct me if I'm wrong and I do realise that I don't know you and am only looking on an internet forum, but I do have problems with disordered eating/binge eating myself so I'm just going on my own experience here....is it a way to limit calorie intake, because I see that despite being advised to try and give the juices a rest, you seem resistant to that. I get that you aren't drinking commercial juices and the fibre is retained etc, but I wondered why the big resistance to changing/mixing it up a bit?

Might just be food for thought....only you know, I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but I am struggling to let go myself of the worrying about calories/gaining weight etc when not logging food, counting calories etc and I wonder if you've kind of stumbled on another "control mechanism" with the juice.

I do hope you feel better soon. :)

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