Suzy

If You Ever Thought of Giving Up Trying to Lose Weight

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I used to think of the Whole9 forum as not a fat-positive space (of course not) but at least a place where weight loss was not held up as a wonderful goal in and of itself. This thread has really changed my view.

I wouldn't expect those who believe that "It's NOT OK to be fat" would respect the concept of diet-survivor triggers. I'm especially disappointed with the moderators in this case.

To be honest, I don't think I can be a part of this community anymore.

I have typed several responses and not posted them - as I want to remain calm and not confrontational. But now, I have to speak out.

Those of us that (1) feel that our weight is unhealthy for ourselves, and (2) choose to make weightloss one of many goals in our Whole30 are sharing our own feelings and experiences. Pomme, you feel judged and that we are hitting your triggers by discussing our very personal and painful feelings?? Then don't participate in this thread. It is just like me not wanting to read about cauliflower recipes because I hate cauliflower and it makes me nauseous. You have a choice to participate or not - please don't sling mud as you walk out the door. It's ok. We won't judge you for not wanting to participate.

We are all mature adults that have a life full of feelings about health, weight, and body image. We all deserve to have our own feelings. Am I 60lbs overweight? Yes. Does it bother me? Yes. Do I know that my husband doesn't find me attractive anymore? Absolutely. But these are MY feelings. I could care less if anyone else is 60lbs over where they want to be? If you want to say "it's ok to be fat" then do it. I don't even know you or what your concept of "fat" is. I do know that I started a Whole30 because I felt unhealthy, bigger than I wanted to be, and so irritable that I was not being the mother I wanted to be to my children.

So I am going to support Suzy, Lauraska, and anyone else on this thread and others that are opening up with some VERY personal feelings. Because I have a choice to stay on a thread, or not. We all have our "triggers" who is anyone to say that my triggers aren't as important as their own? The irony is that you are judging the rest of us.

And the moderators have done exactly what they should. We don't need babysitters, here. We are all adults.

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I just picked up this thread. I am glad I read it. Seana H you did nail it.

Do I see Pomme's point? In a way, a little bit. But she felt like she was being judged. Although we know no one was judging her. But those are her feelings. And she has every right to them. However, no one should have the right to force their own feelings on us. Fine, someone can be offended by some one else's very personal comments. They can chose to participate fairly and then state their opinion, or chose not to participate.

I have trigger's too. We all do. They are very personal. If someone ever asks me (even very innocently) If I am going to the gym (going to excersise) today? I feel pressured. I get angry. I turn around and rebel and will do the opposite. I don't want to go a do the opposite. I want to give my body some excersise that it was meant to do. These are my feelings. It's one of the few remaining triggers of a very personal reality (similar to Laurska's) of my relationship with my father. I try to cope with these feelings the best I can. But it is nerverless a trigger. But I also realize I can't get angry at someone for seamingly asking me a very innocent question though.

Personally I love this thread. It started out on such a very positive note on how the Whole 30/9 has helped people get over their unhealthy realationship with the scale. But the reality is that when it comes to the outside world, it's the first measurement that you are measured by. Would I like to change that reality? Absolutely. I would love to tell everyone my health results, but I'm sure their eyes would glaze over in seconds. But if I told them how much weight I've lost? Instant attention.

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I went back and read every single post and ALL of us talked about the other aspects of our lives that would be improved by sticking to a Whole30 and not focusing on weight.

I'm going to throw my hands up in the air and walk away now.

Lauraska,

I completely understand if you want to remove yourself from this discussion from here on out but I hope you do so knowing that there are SO MANY MORE OF US that are grateful for your honesty, openness, and vulnerability than not. It shows real strength. So thank you for modeling it for us.

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http://www.bodylovewellness.com/ I'm sorry to the well-meaning Golda Poretsky who created this, but this was the deepest point of despair, the darkness before the dawn, that helped me search for health instead of being ok with being sick and fat. This woman is a life coach for obese women. She says that it's ok to be fat. It is NOT okay to be fat. Being obese is your body's way of telling you that your lifestyle is WRONG for you. She says to love yourself, you have to give up. I say to love yourself, sometimes you have to change yourself.

What do you think about changing in order to love yourself? The act of changing things IS love to me.

Those were the things I said that I believe were the most offensive to people. I still hold to what I said, now more than ever, actually, since I see how psychologically damaged some people can get over talking about fat. Maybe society needs more talk about excess fat instead of tiptoeing around it. I wasn't saying that being 20 or even 40 extra pounds overweight was going to kill a person in and of itself, I was saying that being overweight is an indicator that a person hasn't been as healthy as she could be. When I healed my bad food habits, I gained muscle and got leaner. And I'm not skin and bone, girlfriends, I'm 162 lbs of womanly, muscular triumph! I don't need to get thinner than this. I like what I eat and my level of exercise and this is me now. I healed my lifestyle, thereby healing my body. See?

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I want to be like you, Suzy... that's why I'm doing this and sticking with it beyond just 30 days. It's not about being some skinny minny little girl, I am a 54 year old grandma with big breasts and saggy skin from losing weight. If I can get back to 175 lbs I'll be doing a happy dance! I will never fit into a spaghetti strap tank top in the summer, or skinny jeans. But I want to be healthy and strong and be a good example to my grown kids and my grandkids. I want to have self discipline and not feel like I have no control over what I put into my mouth... I want to love myself enough to change... Thanks for sharing!! :)

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I was saying that being overweight is an indicator that a person hasn't been as healthy as she could be.

I don't want to open any cans of worms but I want to very gently step in a suggest that weight = health is something that we shouldn't ever project on to other people. Using it as you're own measure is fine, and as lots of people have said, they started feeling better, lost weight, feel even better! And there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to feel fitter, stronger, leaner, faster...and oftern that might mean losing weight.

But I think we also need to be aware that there are a bazillion other ladies our there who might be overweight, but really healthy in so many ways, and lots of underweight people that might terribly unhealthy. I think its a sad trap that we fall into that assumes overweight = unhealthy. It does for some but it's definitely not one size fits all (pardon the terrible pun!)

Also, to use your own words, 'healthy as she could be'....for some people that will be overweight. Like myself, right now, overweight is as healthy as I can be. I look after myself, I've got myself through an eating disorder, I'm winning at this health thing and I maybe I'll lose weight, but I'm saddened to think some one (which I know they do) sees my fat self and just automatically thinks 'eurgh unhealthy fatty, eat a salad!' I'M ALWAYS EATING SALAD AND IT'S DELIGHFUL THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

EDITED TO ADD...

I just want to double, trip reiterate that I'm not having a go at people who use weight loss as their own measure of health, I just think it's a minefield of snap judgements and generalisations to use it on other people.

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This thread still bothers me sometimes in my quiet moments, so I've gone back to make sure I wasn't persecuting anyone for being fat. I'm pretty sure I wasn't doing that since I was fat, too. Duh. :blink: I'm not a "fatist." My friends and relatives are fat, and I love them. I attach no moral judgments to what I deem as excess body fat. Oh, and if weight loss discussion is a trigger for your body issues, maybe you shouldn't click on and follow a post about weight loss, but stick to the other thousands of posts on this lovely forum.

I was rereading ISWF, like I do every fortnight ;) and found that excess adipose tissue is actually almost considered a separate endocrine producing organ. They said that if you have excess fat, especially belly fat, you are pretty much guaranteed to have chronic systemic inflammation. If this isn't the precursor to disease, I don't know what is, and my name is f***ing Jenny Craig.

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I've been reading and catching up on this thread and wanted to say THANK YOU to all of the people who had such kind supportive words to say, not just to me, but to others who shared parts of themselves in this thread. I am not very good at being open about things like this and you made it possible for me to share memories that I haven't shared with anyone other than a couple select family members.

I was inspired to come over to this thread this morning after something very nice happened to me this morning. So here's a little story for you all that literally just happened an hour or so ago that reminded me that beauty is subjective but it's okay to acknowledge your own...

I work on an ivy league college campus FULL of traditionally gorgeous co-eds. As a staffer, I'm used to sort of being in the background of college life. I walked into Starbucks this morning, as I do every morning, and ordered from the new guy - very young (I'm 35..he was probably 20?) and quite handsome, although I admit I didn't really notice until he started talking to me. He took my order and then said, "You know, your necklace is beautiful." I thanked him and said it was my grandmother's. He said she must have had great taste. I gave him my credit card and he asked for my ID, as I have "ask for ID" written on the card. But then he just held on to my ID and kept staring it. I was starting to get uncomfortable when he looked up and said, "Sorry, I was doing the math. Are you really 35?" At first, I was like, who is this freakin' kid and why is he announcing my age to all of Starbucks? Does he think I look 45?? But then he was like, "I'm sorry. It's just, I saw your wedding ring and assumed you must have gotten married really young because I really thought you were a student." At this point, everyone behind the counter has stopped to stare at him with looks of utter terror on their faces because I think they thought I was going to flip out. I said, "Well thank you, but I am indeed 35 with a two year old kid and I haven't been a student in almost a decade. You made my day, though!" He told me he swore it wasn't a line ("I have a girlfriend!," he said.)...he really just thought I was the prettiest woman he'd served coffee to all morning and he wanted to let me know.

The moral of this story is that he didn't see the poochy post-baby belly that I see, or the chubby fingers that I despise, or the uneven pigmentation on my arms and legs, or hastily pulled back hair because I desperately need a haircut, or the imperfect teeth that show when I smile. He saw beauty. We should all see in ourselves what others see in us.

Anyway, sorry for the novel. I just had that happen this morning and instantly thought of this thread. Hope everyone is well.

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he really just thought I was the prettiest woman he'd served coffee to all morning and he wanted to let me know.

Did you tip him really well?? :D

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I wish I could "like" your post, Lauraska. Made me teary-eyed as well. If anyone ever compliments me (including my husband) I'm always quick to think there must be really flattering lighting or the complimenter is just patronizing me. In my mind my crow's feet, sun-damaged skin and body flaws take over everything else.

My friend is a professor at a notoriously good-looking, top-ranked school. She once described her female students in their tiny shorts and dresses as a "sea of tawny flesh." Thanks to Derval I'm now familiar with the "Comparison is the thief of joy" quote, but that's gotta be not easy on the ego.

Great story!

I'm also really interested in this thread. Wow. So many ideas. I am trying to break myself away from this forum so I'll just say two things:

1. I didn't read any fat-hating. I didn't read anyone saying we all have to be skinny or hate ourselves. I saw people saying being "obese" is not healthy. Perhaps BMI is a terrible way to measure these things (I can't see how a thoughtful person could dispute that), but there is no doubt that fat in and of itself--as an endocrine system--contributes to the degradation of health.

I totally agree that we should--and actually need to if we are to make ourselves healthier--accept and love ourselves as we are but being very overweight is not healthy, period. Is there a wide variation of healthy body types? Of course! But "very overweight" is not a healthy physical state. It stresses many systems.

It also keeps us from doing things to make ourselves healthier. Here I am not talking about body image or self-consciousness, self-loathing but the physical limits of being overweight.

2. I love reading all the success stories--mental and physical. Yay!

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I just found this thread today. Wow-lots of emotion here as is so true of any woman when discussing weight, appearance etc. I also appreciate all the great feedback on weight, obesity, public opinion on health vs overweight. My experience is from a health care provider point of view. My history is the same as most here-fat kid, fat teenager, fat adult. My first memory of being humiliated by a family member was my grandmother taking me to Sears to buy school clothes when I was in 6th grade after my parents divorced horribly. She announced. "Do you have a chubby girls section?". Yeah, I gained weight after that, again, again, and again. Today, I am 54 years old and still am not at the weight I am healthy at. I have weighed 250 at 5'6", and now weigh almost 100 pounds less. I have been on every diet out there, including bulimia before they had a name for it. Never had a healthy relationship with food-ever. Even today, 27 days into my first 30, it worries me to be left alone with trusting myself around food. I substituted food for extreme endurance sports-iron distance triathlon so I could eat, just burn it off. Recently, injured, I am finding at this late stage in life, I can't "outrun the devil" anymore. I am forced to deal with my love/hate relationship with food. As a health care provider, I see severely obese folks daily who have been overweight most of their lives. My concern for these folks is NOT what they look like etc but the joint destruction that is sure to face them(as it has faced me recently). I have been a "big girl" all my life but very active(a healthy obese). But the pounding my joints have taken over time has caught up with me. And it will for most folks carrying a lot of weight. And the health issues don't stop there for the chronically overweight. Yes, looking in the mirror and liking what you see is so important. After all the races I have done(completed 2 ironman races), I still fight for self esteem with my body. My body has served me very well and I have just recently started to respect it. And, I believe through this last month, that I may have found the magic bullet I have longed for. Our relationship with food goes back to our infancy-our belief about our bodies start there as well. We all have issues, and hopefully we all can understand and resolve these issues as we grow and explore our "triggers". We are all looking for nourishment of sorts, right?

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lauraska and cayenne, thank you so much for the (much needed) inspiration to start my day. I am struggling. You have reminded what the struggle is all about.

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A few years ago I read a pretty cheesy 80's diet book from the thriftstore called "Intuitive Eating". While most of their food selections were dead wrong (read: lowfat) I just ignored all of that (I already knew better) but took away from this book what I still view to be one of the most helpful pieces of advice I've received and it is this: Love yourself exactly where you are. Love yourself so much that you will only allow the very best for yourself. Don't say, "when I lose x amount of pounds I can get some new clothes"- get the new clothes now for the size you are. Wear really comfortable undergarments and shoes. Don't buy cheap crap because you don't like your size. That is basically sending the message to yourself that you don't deserve nice things, that you are not worth the effort or expense. It is from that place of loving and caring for yourself that good decisions flow from. So yes, loving self=changing self, but not in a linear equations, it's more of a neverending spiral.

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So yes, loving self=changing self, but not in a linear equations, it's more of a neverending spiral.

Yes!

I have read that book, too. A more recent book is On Eating by Susie Orbach: excellent! I read it when I was counting, weighing, logging, point-assigning. It was mind-blowing but I had reached a weight I hadn't seen in years and even though food and the scale were making me miserable, I wasn't ready to give up that control.

I think On Eating + w30 would be an amazing combo. The basic premise is that you can become someone who is no longer out of control around food. When I read that, I started tearing up. It addresses emotional eating and offers a non-diet way (it doesn't promote any WOE) to think about food. She does have some non W30 ideas (like savoring delicious treats) but she also has a section on food that doesn't agree with you, including foods you cant stop eating. It would be a very interesting book to work through, IMHO, post w30.

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I read this today and thought of all of you. It's a little terse, as Jezebel posts tend to be, but I thought the message was a good one.

http://jezebel.com/i...hings-508925649

Thanks for posting. Jezebel's forced writing style bugs the crap out of me--all the cursing and street slang is often a cover for lazy writing--but there are often great thoughts buried in the over-the-top style.

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"You need to understand the definition of moderation."

Agh....I hate the moderation ideal. Moderation in many things is GARBAGE. Should we love moderately, care moderately, work moderately toward our most cherished life's goals?? And then I stop and wonder WHY my mother is the devotee of moderation. And I worry that maybe she has learned to believe that moderation is all she can reach. Moderate satisfaction. Moderate happiness. And then I want to cry.

I do believe that moderation is important in some ways. Moderate cardio, not insane, killer, monotonous cardio. Moderate devotion to work, not 70,80,90 hour work weeks. But in many ways, moderation is baloney, and just as bad for you!

Thanks for all for this thread!

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The moral of this story is that he didn't see the poochy post-baby belly that I see, or the chubby fingers that I despise, or the uneven pigmentation on my arms and legs, or hastily pulled back hair because I desperately need a haircut, or the imperfect teeth that show when I smile. He saw beauty. We should all see in ourselves what others see in us.

THIS!

I'm reading this thread from the beginning and it's now May, so I'm out of date and I didn't get caught up in the, ah, tensions that rocked the thread for a while. But this really caught my eye. If we could see half the beauty in ourselves that others can see, I think a lot of us would have much easier Whole30s: we would know that we were cosseting our lovely selves with good food, instead of fighting the ugly we project into the mirror.

And by this, I don't mean to fling stones at people who would like their bodies to be tauter, or those who want to be stronger and never mind what it looks like, or even at those who gosh darnit want to fit into their highschool jeans or return to whatever their ideal number on the scale is. There are truly many different sorts of human beauty, and I believe that NONE of them are nourished by self-loathing.

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I appreciate the honesty in this thread, and I wholeheartedly agree with Blissing and CAK911. We are all entitled to love and respect our bodies, no matter what size, shape, color, age or state of ability/disAbility our bodies might be in.

 

I love Whole30 because it's based on good science, and the book doesn't belabor weight loss. It's a way of eating that works for me, while staying true to my self-acceptance, health at any size (HAES) philosophy of life. As a matter of fact, I'd encourage everyone, regardless of size, to make peace with your body and check out: http://www.haescommunity.org/

 

As a size-positive life long fat woman, I too take issue with some of the disparaging ways folks are describing their bodies on this thread. It makes me sad to hear people who are not regarding their bodies, right now, with compassion. Health and fatness are not mutually exclusive, but it is difficult to achive true wellness if you hate your body, no matter what your size.

 

I work for hospice, and have an up close and personal reminder every day that we all die, and we all get sick. Often when we least expect it, and even if we do everything "right." No body is perfect, and the best any of us can do is to treat ourselves and each other with compassion and understanding. Some of the most completely healed, well, peaceful people I've ever had the honor of knowing were on their deathbeds.

 

What I like like about Whole 30 is the emphasis on supporting your body to live your most balanced, productive life, not an obsession with an arbitrary number or dress size.

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Well, I for one love myself to death and always have.  I have always had tons of self-criticisms and fallen prey to negative self talk, but I've always wanted to look, feel, be, live, and give back to others better than I have the day before.  I'm saying that I've always been a sunflower craning its blossom to the light.  My genes have made it very hard for me to be happy and comfortable; I've had major depressive disorder since I was about 10 and I will always have to deal with it in some form until I die.  I hardly ever feel totally okay, so when I felt some relief in my symptoms and a drop in excess fat after Whole30, I was happy about that.  I think this program will get your body and your genes right; you're going to wind up where you should be, whatever size that is.  I'm learning about epigenetics now and how traditional foods can switch on the good genes and deactivate some the bad ones that cause disease.  I'm very interested in this since diabetes, obesity, mood disorders, and heart disease are rampant in my family.  I want to give myself and any future children of mine the very best chance at health and positive body image. 

 

And I wouldn't change a thing about my body, past or present.  I'm so grateful I got to be obese because it led me to seek a better way to eat and live than how I had always done.  From there I found good, traditional foods and a whole lifestyle of self love.  Thank you, Dallas and Melissa!  

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I appreciate the honesty in this thread, and I wholeheartedly agree with Blissing and CAK911. We are all entitled to love and respect our bodies, no matter what size, shape, color, age or state of ability/disAbility our bodies might be in.

 

I love Whole30 because it's based on good science, and the book doesn't belabor weight loss. It's a way of eating that works for me, while staying true to my self-acceptance, health at any size (HAES) philosophy of life. As a matter of fact, I'd encourage everyone, regardless of size, to make peace with your body and check out: http://www.haescommunity.org/

 

As a size-positive life long fat woman, I too take issue with some of the disparaging ways folks are describing their bodies on this thread. It makes me sad to hear people who are not regarding their bodies, right now, with compassion. Health and fatness are not mutually exclusive, but it is difficult to achive true wellness if you hate your body, no matter what your size.

 

I work for hospice, and have an up close and personal reminder every day that we all die, and we all get sick. Often when we least expect it, and even if we do everything "right." No body is perfect, and the best any of us can do is to treat ourselves and each other with compassion and understanding. Some of the most completely healed, well, peaceful people I've ever had the honor of knowing were on their deathbeds.

 

What I like like about Whole 30 is the emphasis on supporting your body to live your most balanced, productive life, not an obsession with an arbitrary number or dress size.

 

I just wanted to dip back into this post again.  I'm sorry that I was the last person to post in here six months ago.  :wacko:   I think of this thread a lot, actually.  I am now in a different phase of my health journey and wanted to share with you what is going on and how I feel now. 

 

I am now more convinced that most people should only do a whole30 once or twice in their lives, to figure out food intolerances and move forward with that knowledge.  I think this is the intent of the Hartwigs, but I think a lot of people use the Whole30 as a way to suppress appetite and lose weight.  I abused the W30 for this purpose and I'm now more in touch with how skewed my body image was.  :(  I have always thought that accepting oneself is the best way to go, but I didn't follow that advice.  Now I'm going to give Golda Poretsky another chance, as well as the link mentioned by HollyBee.  I really want to learn to release my food and body image hang ups.  Any advice is appreciated! 

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I am now more convinced that most people should only do a whole30 once or twice in their lives, to figure out food intolerances and move forward with that knowledge.  I think this is the intent of the Hartwigs, but I think a lot of people use the Whole30 as a way to suppress appetite and lose weight.  I abused the W30 for this purpose and I'm now more in touch with how skewed my body image was.  

 

I love this so much. So, so much.  Whole30 is a tool. The guidelines for more/less healthy apply, even outside the program. You can eat Whole30-style for health and weight loss, and still not be doing Whole30 with all it's rules and restrictions and specific purposes.  This is a huge realization, Suzy, and I think you're on your way to great things.

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