caffeine


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I live in fear that the more people say this that M&D might revise, and that'll be that for me

:lol:

:ph34r: Shh! Don't say that :ph34r: I buy my coffee packs by the caseful from the Ethical Superstore and I've just taken delivery of a case of organic ground coffee and half a case of organic coffee beans. :)

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Carlah- I am shocked by this too, especially considering the addictive nature of caffeine. I drank coffee with coconut for the first week of my W30, and was so grateful to hve something so cheat-y feeling to ease my transistion, then decided I didn't need it because I noticed how tired it made me after and i was feeling so good otherwise So I just decided not to drink it and it has enhanced my whole 30 TREMENDOUSLY!

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I know. I've since looked at the book again and coffee/caffeine contradicts the first 2 food standards. Namely; "does it provide a healthy psychological response" and "does it promote a healthy hormonal response". As we all know, caffeine is horrendous for adrenal fatigue. Take a healthy person and it won't affect them as much, but IT WILL affect them. A bit like how a glass of wine doesn't affect some people, but it does others - it's out for the reason that it CAN affect you.

Given that this item has been left in (I can only assume because the creaters of the Whole30 couldn't give it up or wanted to give some people a reason to get up in the morning), it does make me think twice about the overall science now.

I am a bit disappointed with this oversight...

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I don't think they allow coffee out of laziness or bad science or anything- I think coffee drinking results in a psychological/hormonal response ranging from slightly positive to extremely negative and for anyone whose coffee drinking results in anything worse than "neutral" they should commit for themselves to quit. I feel the same way about nuts- but just because they affect me badly doesn't mean others can't handle them. I do notice a lot of blatant, unashamed coffee addiction talk on these threads though.

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I just re-read the coffee manifesto and M&D are definitely advocating strict moderation and stopping your coffee if you are "addicted" but I do believe that leaves too much wiggle room for addicts to self regulate- what?! That never works- it's like eating bread in moderation- how can your body heal if you dont take a long holiday from the offender. This coffee thing rubs me the wrong way too, but I'm not drinking it!

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I don't think the creators of the W30 are addicted to coffee. In fact Melissa is sensitive to it, she posted this in another thread.

"There is some anecdotal evidence that those with certain AI conditions (especially Celiac) may be sensitive to compounds found in coffee, but there has been no research that suggests removing coffee should be a standard part of a general AI protocol. (At least, not that I have read.) Of course, people are sensitive to all kinda of things (like me, with caffeine), so self-experimentation may be called for if you suspect you may be reacting negatively to either the coffee itself, or the caffeine."

They did in the past challenge readers to give it up for 30 days. Personally I think if you can't give it up, you do have a problem with it ans so should try giving it up. I'm also sorry if anything I've said has led you to believe it's an addiction. I tend to joke a lot without realising people don't necessarily know I'm joking, sorry. I do buy my coffee in bulk because I like organic fair trade coffee and it makes sense to buy in bulk to reduce shipping costs. Normally I have one cup a day and that's it. I have frequently given it up, in fact for over a year at one point. I can take it or leave it, I have no withdrawel symptoms when I don't have it. I don't crave it but do enjoy it and don't notice any difference healthwise on or off it; because of the W30 manifesto I do limit it as I said. This is a lesson that I should be more

careful how I word things. Thank you for that, I will be more careful in future. good luck on your journey.

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I know. I've since looked at the book again and coffee/caffeine contradicts the first 2 food standards. Namely; "does it provide a healthy psychological response" and "does it promote a healthy hormonal response". As we all know, caffeine is horrendous for adrenal fatigue. Take a healthy person and it won't affect them as much, but IT WILL affect them. A bit like how a glass of wine doesn't affect some people, but it does others - it's out for the reason that it CAN affect you.

Given that this item has been left in (I can only assume because the creaters of the Whole30 couldn't give it up or wanted to give some people a reason to get up in the morning), it does make me think twice about the overall science now.

I am a bit disappointed with this oversight...

I think M&D are always consistent in their advice to give up anything that seems to be an addiction or have a bad effect on a particular person. I have not seen them be inconsistent in any of their information as far as that goes. It could be nuts, nut butters, fruit or coffee. We tend to enjoy giggling around here and speak of a drooling love regarding everything from coffee to pork shoulder.

I suggest you read the manifestos. I think it will give you a clearer and more accurate view of their feelings on different things such as bacon and coffee. :)

W30 is a constant work in progress and I love being a part of an evolving program.

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I know. I've since looked at the book again and coffee/caffeine contradicts the first 2 food standards. Namely; "does it provide a healthy psychological response" and "does it promote a healthy hormonal response". As we all know, caffeine is horrendous for adrenal fatigue. Take a healthy person and it won't affect them as much, but IT WILL affect them. A bit like how a glass of wine doesn't affect some people, but it does others - it's out for the reason that it CAN affect you.

Given that this item has been left in (I can only assume because the creaters of the Whole30 couldn't give it up or wanted to give some people a reason to get up in the morning), it does make me think twice about the overall science now.

I am a bit disappointed with this oversight...

Carlah - I can't recall whether or not you, personally, have trouble with caffeine but if you do (or are close to those who do) I can totally understand why allowing coffee/caffeine would seem inconsistent to you. However, I can guarantee you that the inclusion of coffee in the program is not due to any unhealthy habits on the Whole9 team or a fear that folks would shy away from the program (really - we don't even let you have sugar-cured bacon or soy in your canned tuna...).

M&D don't, however, make the rules based on the lowest (or least-healthy) common denominator. If that were the case, the program rules would exclude raisins because (if I were that denominator) they spike (my) blood sugar and then crash it instantaneously (unhealthy hormonal response) and they create (in me) a drive eat compulsively (unhealthy psychological response). The program guidelines are designed to apply to a broad group of people, many of whom do not have issues - psychologically or physiologically - with coffee. For those who do, or who think they might, or who just want a challenge, the option to exclude coffee is available (and even encouraged).

However, the consumption of caffeine can't only be considered as having a negative or neutral effect on one's health. Some science suggests that moderate caffeine consumption can be beneficial to health. http://www.mayoclinic.org/medical-edge-newspaper-2010/mar-05b.html

Bottom line: this is one of those few subjective categories in the Whole30 program - it's a chance for you to exercise some control, and some responsibility. If coffee affects you negatively, then you should absolutely abstain - W30 or not.

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Thanks Robin. I don't have problems with coffee/caffeine. I would say a cup of coffee affects me about as much as a glass of wine. It's just a shame that a cup of coffee is allowed, but a glass or red wine isn't. I used to have 1 cup of coffee a day, but since starting the Whole30 (and having to restart 3 times because I realised dried fruit & small amounts of xylitol were out!), I had a headache for the first couple of days. I assume that small amount of caffeine must have had an affect on me, even though I didn't feel different when I drank it.

Oh well - I'll stick to the decaf every 2nd day and will drink some green tea in between.

Thanks for your help all! x

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Glad to hear that's not something you struggle with. Alcohol is out because of the physiological consequences to your body (it is a neurotoxin, can only be processed by your liver and is treated with the same "precaution" by your body as HFCS). Cocfee, however, doesn't have those same drawbacks. So equating the two is really like comparing

apples and oranges.

Decaf is a good option, though, if you want to see how caffeine can affect you.

PS: dried fruit isn't cause for a restart unless it contains soy or sweetener

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