shelley417 Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Passover is coming next week. For those of you who may not be familiar, it's a Jewish holiday with 2 meals that are laden with ritual (called Seder--which means Order). While it could be a gluten free persons dream holiday as you are not allowed to eat any wheat, rice or grains, legumes. However-- the Seder calls for the drinking of 4 glasses of wine ( or grape juice so i will be ok here) and eating matzoh (which is an unleavened wheat product). It's an 8 day holiday and traditionally so much of what is prepared is made with matzoh and matzoh meal. We are going to my daughters for the holiday and so I can control a lot of the food. Truly the recipes from Paleo -- and in particular the desserts are really geared for this holiday. We don't eat dairy with meat and so that makes it even easier to follow the rituals. My daughter is having 25 people for the first Seder and we are going to our brother and sister in law for second Seder and so desserts are in order. I can avoid the desserts and make food that doesn't contain matzoh. But I am on like day 73 of a Whole 100 and I am concerned about the ritual of dipping matzoh in Charoset ( which is traditionally a mixture of apples, nuts and honey). I have read before that rituals trump the whole 30 but I would still like to hear if there is anyone in a similar situation and what you are planning to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Tom Denham Posted March 16, 2013 Moderators Share Posted March 16, 2013 http://forum.whole9life.com/topic/7902-first-whole30-5-days-in/page__hl__passover__fromsearch__1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenderbender Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Half my family are orthodox black hat Rabbis in Brooklyn and in Israel..... My father graduated from Tor Vidas Yeshiva.... So I have some experience.... Passover is a very special holiday and Torah commands us to honor it. That said ... The number one rule of Torah and all Rabbinical commentary agrees is: the preservation of life and health. To preserve your life and your health trumps everything else in kashrut. Walking a tight rope here as in every rule of kashrut..... If you are casually doing a whole30 because it would be nice to maybe loose some weight then the above doesn't apply. If in your heart you are doing W30 to deal with food issues,gut issues,health issues and really are trying to become more healthy.... Then the consensus is your " health plan trumps everything. Maimonides states " no disease that can be treated by diet shall be treated by any other means". That is a bold statement and one which today's physicians should hold themselves to!!!!! Absolutely do not eat any chometz..... And remember and honor.... That's what we are really commanded " stress the importance of remembering: And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt; and thou shalt observe and do these statutes." (Deuteronomy 16:12) Exodus 12:14 commands, in reference to God's sparing of the firstborn from the Tenth Plague: And this day shall be unto you for a memorial, and ye shall keep it a feast to the lord; throughout your generations ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. Exodus 13:3 repeats the command to remember:Remember this day, in which you came out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, for by strength the hand of the LORD brought you out from this place." So participate in the Seder.... Dip your finger in the grape juice as ceremony, no need to down the whole glass.... And if you feel ok with it and you are doing W30 for health reasons ( most of us are), skip the matzoh....dip salt water with eggs not potatoes.... Everything else on the sedan plate should be ok except the haroseth....( ask for some plain walnuts) Remember that the sedar has been varied and rewritten time and time again.... And it is a ceremonious representation.... We no longer go out and slaughter a unblemished lamb and roast it entrails and all with bitter herbs, wear leather saddles and robes and eat laying on our sides... Im sure any rabbi would tell you similar.... If you we're gluten sensitive they would tell you to skip the matzoh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 16, 2013 Author Share Posted March 16, 2013 Half my family are orthodox black hat Rabbis in Brooklyn and in Israel..... My father graduated from Tor Vidas Yeshiva.... So I have some experience.... Passover is a very special holiday and Torah commands us to honor it. That said ... The number one rule of Torah and all Rabbinical commentary agrees is: the preservation of life and health. To preserve your life and your health trumps everything else in kashrut. Walking a tight rope here as in every rule of kashrut..... If you are casually doing a whole30 because it would be nice to maybe loose some weight then the above doesn't apply. If in your heart you are doing W30 to deal with food issues,gut issues,health issues and really are trying to become more healthy.... Then the consensus is your " health plan trumps everything. Maimonides states " no disease that can be treated by diet shall be treated by any other means". That is a bold statement and one which today's physicians should hold themselves to!!!!! Absolutely do not eat any chometz..... And remember and honor.... That's what we are really commanded " stress the importance of remembering: And thou shalt remember that thou wast a bondman in Egypt; and thou shalt observe and do these statutes." (Deuteronomy 16:12) Exodus 12:14 commands, in reference to God's sparing of the firstborn from the Tenth Plague: And this day shall be unto you for a memorial, and ye shall keep it a feast to the lord; throughout your generations ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever. Exodus 13:3 repeats the command to remember:Remember this day, in which you came out of Egypt, out of the house of bondage, for by strength the hand of the LORD brought you out from this place." So participate in the Seder.... Dip your finger in the grape juice as ceremony, no need to down the whole glass.... And if you feel ok with it and you are doing W30 for health reasons ( most of us are), skip the matzoh....dip salt water with eggs not potatoes.... Everything else on the sedan plate should be ok except the haroseth....( ask for some plain walnuts) Remember that the sedar has been varied and rewritten time and time again.... And it is a ceremonious representation.... We no longer go out and slaughter a unblemished lamb and roast it entrails and all with bitter herbs, wear leather saddles and robes and eat laying on our sides... Im sure any rabbi would tell you similar.... If you we're gluten sensitive they would tell you to skip the matzoh...... I finished a W 45 in November. Reintroduction revealed that I definitely cannot eat soy. Gluten, dairy do not affect my gut. I dont have s sugar dragon and i was delighted to see that i am not an alcoholic ( i thought that alcohol would be most difficult but actually I care at all). would but I just feel better-- less stuffy, less bloated, better sleep, more energy when I follow the rules of the W30. All that being said-- I committed to the W 100. There were about 40 of us when we started and there are about 7 of us left. I want to stay true to my word. And quite frankly I hate matzoh. We dont keep it on our house after the sederim. I think I will miss more cottage cheese which I generally only eat at Passover. My daughter married into a wonderful Irish Catholic family and they all come for Seder. We have a ball. It's funny-- because they actually enjoy reading the Haggadah and no one says "Come on already-- we're hungry-- let's eat"! It's not really about the food at all butnaboutnfamily and getting together and talking about the concepts of freedom and what that means today. That being said-- I am thinking about making some haroset with dates, almonds, figs and apples. And dip it with celery. Do you go to Seder? What do you do about the food? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenderbender Posted March 16, 2013 Share Posted March 16, 2013 Welllll.... I have one of the largest kosher catering outfits in Miami ..... I hate matzoh. Lol. Usually working so I usually half attend a big sedar I eat vegetables and a bit of fruit and lots of protein ..... I'm usually sick to death of matzoh balls,kugel,farfel......so they are zero temptation to me..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 See below Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Might I know you? I am the Exec Director of the JCC of the Greater Palm Beaches ( Boynton and Palm Beach Gardens). Paleo works great with kashrut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Rabbi Elliot Dorff reminds us of what really matters in the next few weeks (from the Rabbinical Assembly Pesah Guide): Because Passover involves more dietary strictures than the rest of the year, many Jews become downright compulsive about the rules of the holiday. We should be careful not to use these rules to assert our superior piety over others, and remember that observance of Passover should not come at the expense of the values of honoring our parents and treating everyone with respect. Passover is really important – a central feature of what it means to live a Jewish life. Its very meaning, though, is completely undermined if the dietary rules of Passover lead people to treat each other with disrespect. So as we explain the dietary rules of Passover below, we fervently hope that they will instead function as they are supposed to – namely, to serve as graphic reminders throughout the holiday of the critical lessons of Passover, of the need to free ourselves and the world around us of all the physical, intellectual, emotional, and communal straits that limit us and others in living a life befitting of people created in the image of God. May we all succeed in making this and every Passover the stimulus for us to fix the world in these ways every day of our lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EileenRBe Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Maimonides states " no disease that can be treated by diet shall be treated by any other means". Awesome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Here is a recipe for sugar free/wine free Charoset: 1/2 lb Pitted dates, 1 1/2 cups raisins, 2 apples peeled, 1/2 cup pecans chopped, 1 t. Cinnamon, 1 t. Ginger, 1/4 cup orange juice. Pulse in a food processor til right consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 17, 2013 Author Share Posted March 17, 2013 Here is another recipe for sugar free/wine free Charoset: 2 medium apples, 1 lb pitted dates, 1cup raisins, 1/2 cup dried apricots, 1/4 t. Cinnamon, 1 cup pine nuts, toasted, 1 cup roasted unsalted pistachio nuts. Put the apples, dates, raisins and cinnamon into a saucepan and cover with 2 cups water. Bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer stirring occasionally until quite soft about 45 minutes. Transfer to a food processor and pulse til smooth. Add the nuts and pulse a few times until incorporated. Best served the day it's made. The nuts will soften on day 2. Will keep for a week in the fridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenderbender Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I may have shot my big mouth off a bit early.... Asked one of my " stricter" Rabbis .... Seems we are commanded to eat matzoh as part of the sedar.... I asked him about gluten intolerance and he told me they have spelt and othe gluten free matzoh.... Then asked what if you can't have any grains and he replied " what kind of illness do you have?" So.... Personally. I'm still choosing not to eat any kind of matzoh and feel fine with it as I believe grains are damaging to my system and haven't had any for over 9 months .... If I were eating bread etc on a semi regular basis I would feel different I suppose it's a personal choice . I'm sure I have done a lot worse things.... Lol Your recipes look great... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Ok-- so we are not commanded to pig out on matzoh. A corner will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Fender bender --- what I meant was a corner will do for me. You need to take care of yourself. We could enter into a long talmudic discussion about the "commandments" and what they mean and why they were or are important, but I know G-d doesn't want you to hurt yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenderbender Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Fender bender --- what I meant was a corner will do for me. You need to take care of yourself. We could enter into a long talmudic discussion about the "commandments" and what they mean and why they were or are important, but I know G-d doesn't want you to hurt yourself. I know what you mean it's our hearts intent that is important..... To many folks of all religions just caught up in small details that they forget to love each other and themselves..... Have a wonderful and healthful holiday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyWar Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 I married a nice Jewish boy and have been attending seder for years. Elana's Pantry has some nice recipes, though not all are compliant, you get the idea: http://www.elanaspantry.com/passover-recipes/ http://www.elanaspantry.com/passover-menu/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 20, 2013 Author Share Posted March 20, 2013 I married a nice Jewish boy and have been attending seder for years. Elana's Pantry has some nice recipes, though not all are compliant, you get the idea: http://www.elanaspantry.com/passover-recipes/ http://www.elanaspantry.com/passover-menu/ Thank you so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pea Posted March 24, 2013 Share Posted March 24, 2013 I'm attending the local Chabad seder for first night and my own (Reform) shul's seder the second. I am bringing kosher l'Pesach gluten-free oat matzoh to both seders, and I intend to have the tiniest piece at the ritual moments, and eat only the whole30 compliant foods otherwise, even if it means eating only chicken for the meal. This is from the site Chabad.org: Matzah is eaten three times during the Seder: After telling the story of the Exodus from Egypt (Maggid), washing our hands for bread (Rachtzah) and reciting the blessings (Motzi Matzah), 1¾ ounces of matzah are eaten. For the sandwich (Korech), ¾ of an ounce of matzah is eaten. For the afikoman at the end of the meal (Tzafun), a minimum of ¾ of an ounce (and ideally 1½ ounces) of matzah are eaten. Of course, this is an Orthodox interpretation. Pea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelley417 Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 The recipe for Charoset above (raw one) is by far the best Charoset I have ever made ( 40 years of making Charoset). Chag Sameach to those who celebrate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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