Dairy and Sugar Alcohol Questions

[0Angel0]

Hi everyone! I'm four days away from completing my first Whole30 and I feel amazing. I've been doing a Primal/Paleo version of Atkins for the better part of a year and I've lost almost 100 lbs, more even as I know I've lost weight on this past month but as per the rules have stayed off the scale. My goal weight is isn't far away!!

The only major changes on Whole30 for me were cleaning up the additives in the few bottled store bought stuff and giving up dairy completely. I already limited it as I lose better without it, well except for grassfed butter, I used that everyday. I don't drink milk due to the carbs and the occasional dairy I plan to add back (if it agrees with me) is going to be raw and grassfed or as close to it as possible. So when adding dairy back do I add one product at a time for a few days or just lump them all in together? Cheese, butter, yogurt, etc on the same day?

Also killing the sugar demon is so important to me...and keeping it dead. But saying I'll never again have a sweet treat occasionally just isn't realistic. Honey, maple syrup etc may be Paleo but they're terrible on my blood sugar. All sugar alcohols are not created equal and I see no problem with using xylitol and/or erythritol in place of more problematic but Paleo sweeteners. I'm in science so know my way around the literature and I've found nothing that raises any red flags about these 2 sweeteners. Does anyone else use them or am I missing something problematic about them that maybe you are aware of?

Thanks for reading!

[Tom Denham]

I don't have anything to add to the sugar question.

When you get ready to reintroduce dairy, you could reintroduce each type individually. That would give you the maximum of specific information. However, most people who are going to have a reaction tend to have it to dairy generally and not to specific types. Some may have a worse reaction to milk than yogurt, but most folks are okay to reintroduce the whole dairy complex at once.

You say you ate grassfed butter during your Whole30. If you clarified the butter, you were okay. If you ate unclarified butter throughout, you were never off dairy. The milk protein in butter, even really good butter, is enough to keep your body from healing from any issues you might have with dairy.

[missmary]

xylitol and/or erythritol

Obviously, post-WO30 it is up to you what foods you allow into your diet, but I personally don't feel comfortable with either of these. Xylitol is usually made from GMO corn, so I don't really want to include that...both xylitol and erythritol cause stomach upset if consumed in large amounts....maybe I am a bit too much of a skeptic about lab-created foods, but if I am going to consume something sweet, I want the sweet taste generated by something as close to nature as I can get it. Low calorie isn't a driver for me, nutrient dense is, so that's where I fall. IF, and that's a rare and special if, I'm having "sugar" I make it pure maple syrup or local honey.

mark sisson has done some writing about sugar alcohols here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/sugar-alcohols/#axzz2NpmrfC3V

[0Angel0]

You say you ate grassfed butter during your Whole30. If you clarified the butter, you were okay. If you ate unclarified butter throughout, you were never off dairy. The milk protein in butter, even really good butter, is enough to keep your body from healing from any issues you might have with dairy.

No, I ate grassfed butter daily prior to doing the Whole30. The only "butter" I'm using on Whole30 is ghee, which I make myself from Kerrygold or Organic Pastures butter. To play it safe I will reintroduce dairy products one at a time. Thanks for your perspective.

Obviously, post-WO30 it is up to you what foods you allow into your diet, but I personally don't feel comfortable with either of these. Xylitol is usually made from GMO corn, so I don't really want to include that...both xylitol and erythritol cause stomach upset if consumed in large amounts....maybe I am a bit too much of a skeptic about lab-created foods, but if I am going to consume something sweet, I want the sweet taste generated by something as close to nature as I can get it. Low calorie isn't a driver for me, nutrient dense is, so that's where I fall. IF, and that's a rare and special if, I'm having "sugar" I make it pure maple syrup or local honey.

mark sisson has done some writing about sugar alcohols here: http://www.marksdail.../#axzz2NpmrfC3V

There is a brand of xylitol made from wood not corn that I buy and Erythritol isn't digested like other sugar alcohols so stomach upset isn't an issue with that product. I definitely can understand wanting all foods as close to natural as possible. For some though even natural sugar can cause issues. I'm in no way claiming that these are healthy foods but neither are honey or maple syrup for some if they negatively affect hormones. I don't make desserts often so it's not a huge issue but I just wanted some opinions other than mine so I really appreciate your comment. I guess it's a YMMV thing here.

[Fenderbender]

Full fat yogurt didn't bother me at all when I reintroduced.... I tried that solo

A few weeks later I put milk in my coffee and three sips in I knew I was in trouble...gas,bloating, stomach pain..... So in my case separating them out was a good thing

As far as the sugar goes.... I say wait for that once In a blue moon when something really special comes along... ( And not crappy baskin robbins ice cream cake.... im talking grandmas secret pry the recipe from my cold dead hands pie) Limit yourself to one serving and enjoy the heck out of it.....

I really believe for my self.... The intense concentration of artificial sweetener would through me into a tail spin much quicker than real sugar.... Plus if your thinking of using it to sweeten iced tea,etc..... For me that would turn from occasional use, to every day use, soon enough I wouldn't bother with water and I'd drink it all day use.... Slippery slope

[CaseyD]

Personally, sugar is sugar is sugar to me. It doesn't matter what form the sweet comes in, and that is because there is a huge psychological impact for me. So, I could eat a paleo treat with a very small amount of honey, or even just made with dates as the sweetener, and it hits my brain much more than my blood sugar level. Or, I could chew "sugar free" gum and suddenly NEED more sugar.

If your concern is more the psychological impact, then it won't matter what form the sugar is in and you might as well eat the natural stuff on rare occasion. But, if that isn't a concern, then do what you believe is the right thing to do with the type of sweetener you use (that's me saying I have little opinion on sugar forms).

[0Angel0]

As far as the sugar goes.... I say wait for that once In a blue moon when something really special comes along... ( And not crappy baskin robbins ice cream cake.... im talking grandmas secret pry the recipe from my cold dead hands pie) Limit yourself to one serving and enjoy the heck out of it.....

I really believe for my self.... The intense concentration of artificial sweetener would through me into a tail spin much quicker than real sugar.... Plus if your thinking of using it to sweeten iced tea,etc..... For me that would turn from occasional use, to every day use, soon enough I wouldn't bother with water and I'd drink it all day use.... Slippery slope

I hear you about the slippery slope. Because I've eaten any desserty type foods so rarely over the last year it's difficult to pinpoint right now exactly what is and isn't a problem. I know from the few times I've made paleoified baked goods with almond flour they wake the sugar and starch demons but a cheesecake with xylitol and erythritol won't. I suppose for something so rare it doesn't matter if it's real sugar or fake over the long run I just have worked so hard to battle the sugar demon...and I'm winning everyday...so maintaining that win is so important to me.

Personally, sugar is sugar is sugar to me. It doesn't matter what form the sweet comes in, and that is because there is a huge psychological impact for me. So, I could eat a paleo treat with a very small amount of honey, or even just made with dates as the sweetener, and it hits my brain much more than my blood sugar level. Or, I could chew "sugar free" gum and suddenly NEED more sugar.

If your concern is more the psychological impact, then it won't matter what form the sugar is in and you might as well eat the natural stuff on rare occasion. But, if that isn't a concern, then do what you believe is the right thing to do with the type of sweetener you use (that's me saying I have little opinion on sugar forms).

I think I'm good on the psychological impact part at least so far. I know it's the bready cakey things that cause issues on that front. I'm more worried about the physiological side and throwing blood sugar and hormones all out of whack. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to see how I respond to the occasional honey or maple syrup sweetened dessert since I'm almost at goal.