Food cravings as cravings for other things?

[notacommittee]

I'm on Day 9 right now; I had a total revalation about my food cravings last night and just wanted to see if anyone could relate or had suggestions. Sorry if this is in the wrong place; please let me know if there's somewhere more appropriate to put it. I'm not sure whether it really belongs here or in the Life After the W30 forum...

I went on the W30 to get a better handle on my emotional relationship with food; I'm fine with my weight and body comp and actually wouldn't be upset if I GAINED weight. Since I started having binge eating problems a year ago (the same time I really started dialing in my Paleo game) I've found the typical "moderation" advice totally useless. I don't do moderation with nuts. I can't just eat a little. It's EASIER for me to say no completely than to stop after 1 serving. In terms of moderators vs. abstainers (http://www.happiness-project.com/happiness_project/2011/04/quiz-are-you-a-moderator-or-an-abstainer-when-trying-to-give-something-up/) I'm an abstainer 100%. So I had this quasi-compromise where I would allow myself 1 day of binging every 2 weeks - 24 hours of eating whatever I wanted. I would look forward to it, plan extensively, spend 13 days drooling over recipes for cheesecake or cookies, eat until I was sick, even though while I was eating all that food I'd been craving tasted like plastic crap, feel gross for the next couple days while it all got out of my system, and then go back to strict Paleo for the next 2 weeks. It worked as a stopgap during a really bad time in my life, and the promise of some relief and fulfillment of my desires kept me toeing the line the other 13 days, but it wasn't ideal and I hated that my choices were total binging or total deprivation.

I'm now committed to doing W30 but of course I'm craving everything like a monster the way I always do, and in the back of my head I keep wanting to plan a massive cheat/binge day on Day 31. But what I always wonder is, why are those my only options? A lot of people are obviously happy with a reasonable serving of chocolate or ice cream; why am I not happy with any kind of moderation? And why do want these foods so badly even though they taste like wax when I actually eat them? I'm totally fine with normal portion sizes with regular food. Even carbs. Even high GI carbs like white potatoes.

I realized tonight, I think I'm not actually craving the foods. I thought I was. But I think what I actually want is that feeling of rebellion, of breaking my own rules. That kind of hedonistic pleasure with an edge of guilt that makes it so much better. That's why I got almost more pleasure out of planning my binge days than actually participating in them. That's why I don't want candy unless I can eat it to excess - the point is the excess, not the candy itself. That's why eating it "in moderation" is less satisfying to me than abstaining, because if I abstain at least I get the moral pleasure of doing the right thing.

So I'm not really craving the cupcake. I'm craving the idea of the cupcake.

It makes sense to me because I'v'e always been very strict with myself. I'm always ready to hate myself and punish myself for eveything; I have all kinds of rules that I force myself to follow. I'm the master of driving myself to extremes. It makes sense that I would need a kind of outlet or release valve, and unfortunately for me my psyche decided to pick food. In college I think it was better because I was fulfilling that need with my personal appearance (tattoos, piercings, crazy hair). Then I grew up and got a real job and started fulfilling it with Nutella instead.

Does this resonate with anyone else? Any ideas for what I can do to get rid of this need to "break the rules" even though I know the rules are there for my own health?

Or any suggestions for an alternative-alternative outlet for this need to rebel? Please don't tell me to go easier on myself; I can't. I'm just not like that. Basically I'm looking for a kind of rebellious/hedonistic behavior that won't get me arrested or killed...sex would be the obvious choice I guess but I'm just not really into casual hookups...

[Tom Denham]

Wow. Your post made me wish I were still a psychotherapist! I think you are on to something in identifying a need to "break the rules." Uncovering the roots of that drive may help you to become more adept at "directing" its flow. I don't have any particular ideas for you, but I do think you could benefit from and even enjoy spending several months talking with a psychotherapist.

[AmyS]

Tom's reply is rational and helpful. Go with that. I was going to suggest skydiving.

Seriously, great post, notacommittee. Lots of good stuff there.

[Carlaccini]

Hmmmm. You got me thinking over here. I am normally not a binger but I know what you are talking about. I thought about going crazy on day 31 as well. except that I didn't because I chose to focus on how great I felt - why would I want to change that.

I am a rebel though. If you tell me I can't have something - well you know what? I'm going to have it. I think that is why my first whole 30 went so well. Because my BF told me that he didn't think I could do it. Well you know what? I did it just to spite him.

I know this rebel thing is deeply routed in my childhood. My weight was constantly harped on, I was told many a time I couldn't eat something. I had so much negative feedback that I decided that I wouldn't care, and I would just do what I wanted. I never rebelled any other way (basically a good, rather reticent child/teenager) but I rebelled in the food and excersise category. I preferred to read and craft rather than excersise. I would be encouraged to excersise, but then be made fun of because I didn't do it right, or I would sweat too much (yes I have issues with sweating in front of people too!)

I too hold an all or nothing approach to things - however - I have gotten control over my binging to a certain degree. Trust me I would eat an entire package of something (Think store bought cookies) just so I wouldn't have it in the house anymore. So I wouldn't be tempted. And throwing them out wasn't an option as that would be just wasteful.

I have had another poster make an excellent suggestion - to make up post whole 30 rules. Strict rules. Let's just say you pick once every two weeks one item that you chose to offroad with. It could be a glass of wine, or a favourite dessert. But it has to be only one.

I too found I liked the idea of something more than the actual thing itself. So for me to go offroading it has to fit into a category of 1) is it homemade/made fresh in house 2) What is my reaction to it. (You get that from formal introduction) 3) rate from 1-10 how badly I want it. Anything less than 9 does not get considered. Especially if I know my reaction to it is really bad. and 4) Why do I want it. Is it because it is super yummy and I really enjoy it, or it because everyone else is having some.

[Xandra]

I know where you are coming from. Changing the response to stress from such tight compliance can be a challenge. What's happening to me over time is that it's not the indulgence that is a release, it's the abstinence. I get pressure from people to eat more than just meat and vegetables, and every time I make it through another special occasion without derailing, it's one more victory for me. I'm not taking out the release on myself, I'm taking it out on the world that says "Here, it's St Pat's Day, have some Lucky Charms." I'm "breaking the rules" just by eating Paleo. What a rebel!

That victory -- rather than the cupcake -- has become the release, and the big upside, of course, is that there is no recovery time, no sugar dragon withdrawal that has to be endured yet again.

[koru]

Notacommittee, others have posted excellent suggestions here. I completely get where you come from, because I too have (or used to have) the kind of self-critical, self-punishing personality you are describing. In some ways, I think that setting strict rules for ourselves is our way of controlling at least a part of our lives. For years, this would be my process: set strict parameters, all or nothing; comply religiously for a while, and then rebel and go off the deep end. This process is similar to setting up a false idol to worship; I'd "finally" find a perfect system, a perfect approach, and follow it faithfully; and then one day, it would fail me, or I would fail it, and I'd come to hate it, and myself, in the process.

Since then, I've made a few discoveries about myself, and I hope they'll prove helpful to you. I understand what you say about being the way you are and not being able to take it easy on yourself. I understand, because I'm made from the same mold. Our willpower is strong, and it calls for mastery, for challenges, for control. At the same time, we are non-conformists at heart. You tell me not to walk on grass, and every inch of my body will itch with the desire to break that rule. It's what we do. It's a crazy duality, but it is what it is. But that doesn't mean that our choices need to remain the same. We are intense people, so "taking it easy" sounds like our own idea of hell. These are our realities, and we cannot escape them. But that doesn't mean that we need to be imprisoned by them.

One thing I realized was how much my mental processes were controlling my body. In every new dietary endeavor, it was my mind that led the way, and my fierce willpower followed, eager for another challenge. The cycle of elation (FINALLY! I have the truth!), to stoic compliance, to disillusionment, and to rebellion, continued for years. And then one day, I realized I was tired. Tired of driving myself to exhaustion; tired of telling my poor abused body what's good for it and never letting it speak. I didn't rebel against rebellion; I simply turned my back on it and walked away.

I decided to listen to my gut, to my intuition, and to the voice of my body, and let my willpower take a back seat. This has worked wonders for me. I no longer need to rebel because I no longer choose to allow my mind to issue ultimatums to the rest of my body. I know myself, and I know for a fact that if I say to myself, "you can never have this again", I will have marked the countdown to the end of a vicious cycle. So, like an addict, I'm taking it one day at a time. I don't let my mind worry, obsess, push, or dictate. I listen. I listen carefully and respectfully to every signal my body makes. I don't fret about what ifs, whens, and hows. I stay in the present moment. I plan, I shop, I cook (I LOVE cooking by the way, it's like my meditation); I eat with pleasure. I don't expect problems, and I don't dread them. Similarly, I don't dread or anticipate cheats or binges. I make sure I am prepared, and I channel my willpower into things like making myself go to sleep on time. If a challenge comes up (a trip, for example), I make sure I plan for it as best as possible, and then I do the best I can; and if I can't, I accept it and move on.

So you see, it's not about changing who you are. It's about changing your attitude towards yourself and redirecting your energy. It's also about realizing that that voice in your head, telling you to limit or punish yourself, does not belong to you. Who knows who put it there and why? At some point, it may have saved you, even (I know it saved me, long ago). But it no longer serves you in the best possible way. Try to think what it is that makes you create false tyrannies in your own mind, and thwart them, over and over. Maybe this secret rebellion masks the need to overcome another, bigger issue, and now is the time to find out what it is, and tackle it. Either way, your body deserves better than paying someone else's debt over and over. You deserve better. This rebellion is a false god, a mere illusion of freedom. You deserve real freedom now.

[notacommittee]

I do think you could benefit from and even enjoy spending several months talking with a psychotherapist.

It's possible? I'm between health insurances right now but as soon as I have coverage again I'll definitely look into it. I'm a little leery because I tried talking to a psychologist before and it really wasn't helpful. But I know they're not all the same so maybe I just need to find a better one.

[notacommittee]

I know this rebel thing is deeply routed in my childhood. My weight was constantly harped on, I was told many a time I couldn't eat something. I had so much negative feedback that I decided that I wouldn't care, and I would just do what I wanted. I never rebelled any other way (basically a good, rather reticent child/teenager) but I rebelled in the food and excersise category. I preferred to read and craft rather than excersise. I would be encouraged to excersise, but then be made fun of because I didn't do it right, or I would sweat too much (yes I have issues with sweating in front of people too!)

...

I have had another poster make an excellent suggestion - to make up post whole 30 rules. Strict rules. Let's just say you pick once every two weeks one item that you chose to offroad with. It could be a glass of wine, or a favourite dessert. But it has to be only one.

I'm so sorry that you got picked on so much about your weight as a child; that must have been miserable. I'm lucky that I never was (although I was also a total bookworm! My mother would have to chase me outside to get my nose out of the books haha).

It's an interesting idea to pick just one thing; that's kind of like picking just one day, which is what I had going on before. It just seems a little bit like "enjoy in moderation" which doesn't work for me at all. Although maybe the same thing will happen to me as happened to you, and I'll be able to enjoy it like that post W30...I know I wouldn't now but I remember I used to, so it's always possible that I could again.

[notacommittee]

it's not the indulgence that is a release, it's the abstinence.

That's a really interesting idea; I'll have to think about that a bit but if I could convince myself of it, it sounds promising. Maybe I should go read a whole bunch of blogs all about healthy whole grains and low-fat diets, so I feel like a total rebel cooking everything in lard...? Thanks!

[notacommittee]

I think that setting strict rules for ourselves is our way of controlling at least a part of our lives.

You're spot-on with that; I have control issues up the wazoo and it's totally plausible to me that all of my self-regulation is just me trying to get a handle on everthing.

These are our realities, and we cannot escape them. But that doesn't mean that we need to be imprisoned by them.

...

I don't let my mind worry, obsess, push, or dictate. I listen. I listen carefully and respectfully to every signal my body makes. I don't fret about what ifs, whens, and hows. I stay in the present moment. I plan, I shop, I cook (I LOVE cooking by the way, it's like my meditation); I eat with pleasure. I don't expect problems, and I don't dread them. Similarly, I don't dread or anticipate cheats or binges. I make sure I am prepared, and I channel my willpower into things like making myself go to sleep on time. If a challenge comes up (a trip, for example), I make sure I plan for it as best as possible, and then I do the best I can; and if I can't, I accept it and move on. So you see, it's not about changing who you are. It's about changing your attitude towards yourself and redirecting your energy.

I guess I'm just not understanding your point here. If you cannot escape something, how are you not imprisoned by it? What you're describing sounds very Geneen Roth Intuitive Eating-ish to me (which is great, because that must be an awesome way to eat and I really admire her attitude), but it seems like a 180 degree shift from this kind of control-freak personality and I'm confused at how you think it's not about changing who you are. My attitude towards me is part of who I am. I don't know how to exist, or how to operate in the world without self-rejection, so the consciousness that can say 'I,' the consciousness that can position myself as a human being, is entirely based in self-hate. So to behave the way you're talking about would be a total personality revamp for me because it would be basing my entire existence on a completely different structure and viewpoint...and yet "it's not about changing who you are"?

It's also about realizing that that voice in your head, telling you to limit or punish yourself, does not belong to you. Who knows who put it there and why?

That voice is all I have. That voice is me.

Maybe this secret rebellion masks the need to overcome another, bigger issue, and now is the time to find out what it is, and tackle it. Either way, your body deserves better than paying someone else's debt over and over. You deserve better. This rebellion is a false god, a mere illusion of freedom. You deserve real freedom now.

Here I think you're absolutely right, that the rebellion is ultimately futile and I'm not actually accomplishing anything with it. Maybe I just want to give myself a reason to hate myself so I can prop up the only "me" that there is, namely the "me" based in self-hatred. There are a couple other issues that it might also be...a few people upthread suggested going to see an actual brain doctor which I'll probably do once my new health insurance kicks in (changing jobs so I'm in an awkward gap period right now).

Anyway, thank you for your very thoughtful response! It certainly gave me something to chew on.

[koru]

Notacommittee, I think therapy is a fantastic idea. I had experience with it a while ago that wasn't successful; I don't think the therapist was a good fit, and more importantly, I wasn't ready to open up and look at myself honestly. The second time I tried it, years later, was much, much better.

I guess the point about not being imprisoned by your circumstances can be illustrated by an example of a disabled person. I know disabled people who lead rich, happy, meaningful lives. They are happy. They can't change their physical circumstances, but they transformed their lives even within those restricted parameters. I also know a lot of people who have a lot to be thankful for, and yet they remain unhappy and troubled. Happiness is a choice, to a certain extent; while I say this, I do not discount depression, brain chemistry, or extremely difficult circumstances, or even general malaise that affect us and bring us down. What I'm saying is, ultimately, we have some part to play and some measure of control over our happiness. Victor Frankl made a great case for meaning and survival against all odds in his brilliant book "Man's Search for Meaning".

In terms of changing who you are, I think it's important to decide who you are, first. Again, this is strictly my personal opinion, and I am not looking to persuade anyone. If we choose to identify with the pain in ourselves first and foremost, if we choose to make that our constant, then it does become a ruling part of our personality. In this way, we create a self fulfilling prophecy: I think I am unhappy, therefore I am. I say this because I personally spent a long part of my life believing this about myself, and manifesting it in my daily life (and very much so in my dietary choices). I later realized (or chose to believe) that the true me, the real me, wasn't even known to me, so I set out to get to know her. In this process I realized that she is essentially good, and she strives to be happy. I held on to my unhappiness for years because, painful as it was, it was safe and familiar. Rediscovering the true me and letting her out was scary, but infinitely worth it. So this is what I mean when I say you don't need to change your core, you just need to find out, objectively and compassionately, what that core is. This is where therapy can be incredibly helpful, though at the end of the day, our choices are ours alone.

I've mentioned this before, but I'll say it again- this is strictly IMHO, based on my own experiences. I'm not a licensed professional, and all I can do is offer my own story and impressions. I really wish you well on your journey.

[GoJo09]

notacommittee, I just wanted to say that you are amazingly articulate, and have summed me up in ways that I had never been able to get across before, so thank you. (Doesn't help with your dilemma, sorry, but surely everyone loves a little positive feedback )