Still Struggling with "Never Again"

[sciencemonster]

I understand that there are a few foods that I should really, really just never eat again. For example, pizza. There are all kinds of reasons why I shouldn't even touch pizza again, and it pretty much kills me. I would like to have pizza again. It is simply delicious. However, I also understand that if I were to have it, I would have a really nasty reaction to it, because my worst triggers are gluten, cheese, nightshades, and sugar.

I hate feeling so limited, and I'm really struggling to come to terms with this new lifestyle, even though I'm excited attaining better health.

How do y'all get over this feeling? Am I just going to get over it, or is this feeling of missing out on good food going to plague me for a while?

[whitjm5]

I like Robb Wolf's take on this: "It's your nickel, ride it however you want." I know what years of eating crap has done to my body. It has NOT been pretty. For me, I'm good with never eating that crap again, so I don't have to continue to look and feel the way I've looked and felt. You'll either accept it, or you'll go back to eating that way. Completely up to you. I liken it to coming to the realization that life isn't fair. You can either accept it and move on, or spend all your time worrying about why it *should* be. Hope that doesn't come across as too negative. It's not meant to be at all. Best wishes whatever you decide. I won't judge.

[Tom Denham]

You may be feeling limited, but you aren't. Not really. There are at least 9000 different things you can eat that are good for your body. Many of them taste delicious. Get busy trying new foods and new ways of cooking them. Pizza is important only if you live your life looking backwards instead of forwards.

[CraftyCarnivore]

It's funny. I'm on Day 30 -- mind you, the program has been going so fast for me that I miscounted my # of days! I thought today was day 29 -- and there's not a single thing I "can't wait to have again". I thought it was pizza, but I remember now how horrible pizza makes me feel. No thanks! I'm totally with Tom - look for new ways to make foods.

[1Maryann]

Pizza was always one of my favorite foods, and the reason I fell off the wagon three different times after a Whole30. I used to say that if I had to pick only one thing to eat for every meal the rest of my life it would be pizza. This time around, I did a Whole100. (I'm very hard-headed and sometimes it takes me a while to learn my lesson.) I have absolutely no desire for pizza. I have learned to open my food horizons so wide, and have found so many equally delicious recipes that won't hurt my body, that I no longer feel 'deprived'.

I like the way I feel now, so much that I don't want to ruin it. You'll get there. Eventually it will be replaced with something else. Tastes change over time, and often, the thing we thought we really wanted tastes so different than our memory of it, or the reaction from our body is so noticeable, that we just decide it isn't worth it.

[Moluv]

I express my undying love for pizza (and all baked goods) by looking at it fondly, inhaling of its aroma deeply, snapping photos of it, maybe even touching it- but I don't dare eat it. That's where it crosses the line from enjoyment to suffering.

[Keianna]

Granted I am new to this, but do you never again have to eat something you enjoy. Why can't it be something you make healthy in your home as a rare treat or a slice or two at a restaurant that uses organic gluten free ingredients. I understand not eating it while on a Whole30, but don't understand the never again as a lifestyle thing.

[whitjm5]

I express my undying love for pizza (and all baked goods) by looking at it fondly, inhaling of its aroma deeply, snapping photos of it, maybe even touching it- but I don't dare eat it. That's where it crosses the line from enjoyment to suffering.

My wife does the same thing. It makes me LOL, but it works for her. :-D

[Nadia B]

I express my undying love for pizza (and all baked goods) by looking at it fondly, inhaling of its aroma deeply, snapping photos of it, maybe even touching it- but I don't dare eat it. That's where it crosses the line from enjoyment to suffering.

My wife does the same thing. It makes me LOL, but it works for her. :-D

Oh thank God, I thought I am the only creep who goes to stare and smell the cheese at the market. So funny. I guess you all know my past food life obsession.

@sciencemonster. There is a specific reason why this program has a reintroduction stage. Completing Whole30 you will learn a lot about your eating habits. You will come to the finish line with lots of new information. You might (I really hope so) discover new passion for cooking. However, the real "wow" moment comes when you start to reintroduce one group of products at a time. It is absolutely useless to think what the "after" life will be like at this point (sorry). Everyone settles on their own set of rules that work for them.

So, focus on doing your best (you've commited already, so rock it!) in following WH30. You can always get support here. Who knows, maybe your "never again" will have a different (happy) tone in 30 days.

[MelliebuStacey]

For the record, when you're through your W30 I have a fabulous recipe for a SWYPO "pizza crust" made with cauliflower. That being said, I have like 9000 new favorite foods that are all better than pizza (and I used to looooove pizza!), it's all about moving forwards and trying new things Also, Nad, I totally stand in the bakery when they're making sourdough..I'm creeeeepy too! hahaha

[Jtandi]

I just completed a whole100 with Maryann. I still want pizza, I miss it terribly. I, too, could eat pizza only for the rest of my life and be completely happy and content. I haven't eaten any carbs (obviously or pizza) since my whole100 is over, but it's only been a week. so I don't have lifelong experience with this, but I do know at this time I'm amaking a conscious decision not to have it. and at this point I have to take it a day at a time (I KNOW, total addiction recovery talk, but this is an addiction for me. I'm also a recovering alcoholic who has been sober over 13 years, so I know about addiction!). when confronted with pizza my plan is to know that, at this time, I won't have it. I can't think about never again in my whole entire life, I just have to think about right now. will I never have pizza again? I don't know. I can't answer that.

I also know many people who DO allow themselves some of their favorite things on special occasions or special times. I see nothing wrong with that. if you have a favorite most amazing pizza place? my opinion is to have a slice, do it with specific rules/regulations (on my birthday is the only day I will have pizza...) and you might find that having it once after changing to this way of eating it isn't as enjoyable or you feel more sick than you thought. or you may find that once a year is totally worth it.

this is the approach I plan to take. I have already accepted that on four days a year I will eat cake (my birthday, my husband's birthday, and the birthday of each of my daughters). whether it will be conventional or "paleo" and gluten free, I don't know. I don't have to decide that today. I also plan on whole30 3 times a year, a month after each birthday (my daughter's birthdays are 1 month apart).

so my advice to you is to take it a day at a time. make a conscious decision. don't think of forever, and if there is a very special occasion that you want to eat pizza, then make a conscious decision to do so. (remember, I haven't done this for an extended period of time, so my advice might be bad, I hope it's not!)

[Beets]

I have known for years that I have issues with gluten. But every time I would start eliminating it from my diet I would be filled with panic. No more croissants? No more scones? No more brownies? Chocolate chip cookies? I love to bake and I love enjoying a really nice piece of pastry and my favorite thing to order is a plate of very nice homemade pasta with a brown butter sage sauce with sausage. As soon as I'd think "never again" I'd immediately start craving.

I think the advice above is great. I was just thinking the same thing about birthday cake. I make a really good chocolate cake and I hate to think about "never" eating it again.

That said, I've been reading The Paleo Coach and find it very very helpful for re-framing all of these issues. He has a whole section about taste. And how taste is the only sense that we will put above our health. We will make ourselves SICK because we like the taste of something. It's kind of crazy.

I've also read that its takes 2-3 months to heal your gut after one exposure to gluten. Is that worth it? I've also read that some people can tolerate small amounts of troublesome foods after they've completely healed their guts. Maybe this will be the case for me and maybe not. I'm definitely holding off on that cake for awhile.

The other thing is that so much of the things you love are about emotions and not taste. I suspect part of the reason we all like pizza is because it was the thing we ate on Friday nights when we were kids. In our house it was the only time we drank soda and got to eat in front of the TV. The emotion->food tie is powerful.

I quit sugar and grains in Feb and, in advance of my W30, I had a few days of eating junk I hadn't been eating. I ate one of my favorite croissants; they were always my Friday treat, my "bad day" treat, my PMS treat, my my-kid-woke-up-ten-times-last-night treat. It was fine if a bit artificial or cloying--but it didn't match up to the memory of it in my mind.

Anyway. Highly recommend the book.

[jpketz]

Ah...to pizza or not to pizza...that is the question. According to an old college psych professor, you can navigate through life on a sigmoid (S) curve in order to arrive at what's "reasonable". At the bottom of the curve is one extreme, and at the top the other extreme. This is a very helpful model for me because with food and eating, nuance often escapes me.

That said, if the bottom of the curve is a monastic life full of deprivation—that way lies resentment, rebellion and ultimate failure. Not sustainable. At the other end of the curve, life gets a lot like pre-Whole30, pre-8 years of sobriety, unmanageable, addictive and self-destructive. That way lies disease, medical problems, weight gain, feeling crappy all the time, depression, denial...also unsustainable. I'm hanging out around the bottom third of the curve as much as possible these days but trying to stay off the bottom, although for short spurts sometimes it's necessary to go a bit ascetic to get the ship turned around.

So last night it was my daughter's birthday and we went out to a really nice restaurant for the first time in almost 90 days of pretty strict W30. This is a Bradley Ogden restaurant known for it's "farm to table" ethic so I could pretty much close my eyes and point at the menu and find something fresh, local and amazing, which I did and in the process ended up having several items I hadn't eaten for nearly three months, even during reintro, like blue cheese, a sourdough roll, garlic mashed potatoes, and a strawberry-rhubarb crisp with homemade vanilla bean ice cream which nearly made me fall on the floor and cry for my mama.

The experience definitely moved me up the "curve" a bit but well within the acceptable range I've staked out for myself. Although truth be told, I "feel it" today as I write this. I definitely threw my gut a curveball by asking it to digest some dairy, some sugar, and a little gluten in the crisp and the meatloaf (again...OMG) but it was a calculation, not an impulse or a compulse (sorry...just made up a word) and I own my decision to go off-roading for this special occasion. I'll no doubt be back on my bike (actual) this weekend to take care of the extra cals and back on my metaphorical Paleo bike commencing like now.

The difference that makes this all possible is that I feel no external pressure to "stick" to anything. I'm not trying to impress anyone, or win the prize for Best Paleo Eater in a Leading Role (Robb Wolf...you really like me!!).

Imagine my surprise when reaching the final thoughts in "It Starts With Food" where the Hartwigs issue an injunctive to enjoy life and not expect to be strict W30 forever and ever, amen. I could see the sigmoid curve materializing before me at that point and me inhabiting the lower third the vast majority of the time enjoying what Tom correctly describes as the "9000 delicious foods" available in a clean, healthy eating regimen. But on special and rare occasions having strawberry-rhubarb crisp on my daughter's birthday.

There are some things on my list I'd rather not risk because of their checkered history and inherent power, like alcohol, and a whole lot of stuff I'll never eat for political reasons...like any fast-food-chain toxic waste or any food that's just crap and not real food (i.e. anything out of the Safeway freezer section) but beyond that...just knowing I can choose it makes me not want to, if that makes sense. I guess it's all about owning the decision to put something in your mouth. Like us eating food vs. food eating us. I know for some it's strict W30 or the highway, and I get that, but for me, at least for today, an attitude of latitude works best.

Ouch this post got long...sorry.

[Pea]

^{jpketz, you a fabulous writer.}

^{For a long time, I had a groove that worked for me. (Prior to my life falling apart with Lyme disease, etc, etc.) Most meals I considered sort of "workhorse", pedestrian, everyday, nonspecial events. So I ate meat, fish, fowl, vegetables, good fats, and a little homemade, long-fermented yogurt.}

^{Special events were things like MY birthday or anniversary (not everybody's birthday), out of town, once a year visitng relatives who like fine dining....so maybe once a month or two, I would deviate from my own everyday food rules.}

^{On those occasions, though, it had to pass what I call THE WHY BOTHER test. I wouldn't eat any ice cream I could get in the market, but I would eat the ice cream I make at home from the season's first strawberries.}

^{I wouldn't eat a Ring Ding but I would eat a flourless chocolate cake at the fine restaurant for my birthday.}

^{You get the picture.}

^Pea

[Beets]

Very helpful ideas here. That dinner sounds amazing--as does fresh strawberry ice cream!

[bon]

Just wanted to say don't get in your head about it. Seriously. acknowledge your food mourning thoughts and then push them out! After your Whole30 continue eating with Whole30 principals in mind the majority of the time. Your tastes WILL change. It's taken me a year, but I'm truly over pizza... and maple pecan scones... and almond croissants from my favorite local and made from "scratch" bakery.

Like Beets said above, eventually the tastes of those foods won't match your memory. This was absolutely true for me. They are a let down and I can't believe I get to say that and know it to be true! NEVER thought I would experience that! I will admit that I was initially disappointed when they didn't satisfy me the way my memory told me they would... but I got over that pretty quickly and enjoy the freedom of not being on that leash.

[Keianna]

@JPKETZ I loved your post. Makes the most sense to me. You don't have to do a Whole365. We should be able to indulge in something absolutely fabulous every once in a while. I make 6-10 new dishes each week and they are fabulous, compliant and I have no regrets eating them, but sometimes you want that slice of pizza from a local farm to table restaurant with sustainable principles. You shouldn't feel like the worse human being in the world for making that choice every so often.

[CAK911]

This is such a helpful thread. The S-curve thing really resonates with me. I offroaded today (on purpose), and I'm already looking forward to the Whole30-friendly dinner happening in my kitchen right now. I'm looking forward to learning to be deliberate about my offroading, which I think is something I really have struggled with post-Whole30 (I've done two full ones in the past 10 months).

[Bethann67]

http://whole9life.com/2010/12/the-healthy-f-off-scale-version-2-0/

⬆

It doesn't have to be never ...

Read the original with the "f-bomb"

😄

Then print one out and have fun brainstorming the ...possibilities! ( mine has changed a lot over the last. 25 days ...but gum won't budge!!)

[nutshell]

I love some of the thoughts in this thread! Being a perfectionist and somewhat type A personality, after finishing my first whole30 I would feel like a failure if I ever ate something not paleo friendly. But after time I came to realise this is not a healthy mentality; sometimes you are gonna have a birthday and your mother-in-law is going to bake you your favourite, the most delicious homemade carrot cake known to man, and you are going to eat it and ENJOY it!

I have two points to make which have helped me - firstly the other posters are right, with time making healthy choices again and again becomes so much easier...your tastebuds do change and slip-ups become less frequent. And when you do decide to off-road, often is doesn't taste as good as you remember...which is helpful, because (for me at least) it means you are less likely to off-road with that item again. It's not worth it anymore. I recently had this experience with ice-cream - I planned having it, I looked forward to it, and it was delicious...but...not as delicious as I remember, and maybe not worth the stomach ache after...which makes me less inclined to have it again.

Secondly, we are not in paleo jail. Once in a while (especially when on a stricter diet while I'm trying to lose a couple more pounds) I allow myself a 'YOLO meal', for mental health reasons. It's once a week at the MOST, and may or may not be paleo friendly, but I enjoy it, look forward to it and saviour that meal, and honestly it usually makes me so ready to get back on the paleo train the next meal!

[birder]

I am just in reintroduction after my first whole30 but I gave up all grains gradually just over a year ago.  I didn't think I had that much of an issue but knew it made me feel better and crave less food so I just indulged now and then.  My last  dance with pizza came at my son's birthday party.  We had been swimming and running and very active.  I had left the lunch I planned on eating at home and so when everyone was eating pizza I did to.  I then ate 3 more slices and a bread stick before I felt full.  Two days later I was on the second day of my new teaching job, the kids had left for the day and I just broke down in tears.  I hurt all over, my brain was foggy, I was too emotional to deal with getting students into the swing of things.  I pulled it together but I really think the state of my health those two days influenced the rest of my year.  Then I was able to say "never again" because I truly believed in it.  I lost all desire for pizza.  

 

I can recognize that same attitude in my quest to kill my sugar addiction.  I have tread very carefully this week knowing how easily I can fall into the rut again.  The desire needs to come from within.  I've also found that there are so many great foods that taste so much better.  I had 5 spice ribs from The Clothes Make the Girl last night.  I didn't think ribs would ever be the same without sweet sauce, they were not because they were better.  

 

Enjoy where you are, focus on really loving what you can eat.  

[TXN11]

I'm in "never again" mode with pizza. I pizza'ed big time yesterday, and my gut feels horrible today. I can't even look at pizza without feeling sick.

[Bridget]

I am in the midst of my 3rd Whole30 and have managed to change my thinking. The "never again" bummed me out for a long time. The more I read the post Whole30 logs here, the more ideas I get,as well as a good dose of healthy attitude about this whole concept. I completed my 2nd Whole30 on May 26th. I planned to celebrate my daughter's 16th birthday on the 31st with a 4 layer chocolate cake with mocha buttercream frosting made by my 13 y/o and me. We really talked this cake up during May while on the Whole30 (16y/o did it with me) Even gave ourselves permission to splurge the whole weekend of her birthday, with the plan to hop back on for another Whole 30 the following Monday.

The 26th, day 30, came & went. Party time ? Not exactly. I decided to keep it up four more days till her birthday, when I could eat the cake. Three compliant meals the day of her bday, and the teeniest sliver of cake at the end of the day. it was delicious, pretty to look at, and everyone really enjoyed it. The smile on my daughter's face, as we all enjoyed the cake and a GREAT birthday, was priceless- and truly part of the experience. There was, of course, over half a cake left, which went into the freezer for hubby's bday next month.

That was it for me. I had no desire to continue the party- and not in a "aren't I great, all I had was a tiny piece of cake" way, but, truly, that was all I wanted.

It is finally starting to click with me that spending a bit of time really trying to consider the worth of the offroad experience is something I want to master. So it's not going to be a "never again" mentality- but an  "is it worth it" consideration. A lot more powerful, if you ask me !

[kew]

 

The 26th, day 30, came & went. Party time ? Not exactly. I decided to keep it up four more days till her birthday, when I could eat the cake. Three compliant meals the day of her bday, and the teeniest sliver of cake at the end of the day. it was delicious, pretty to look at, and everyone really enjoyed it. The smile on my daughter's face, as we all enjoyed the cake and a GREAT birthday, was priceless- and truly part of the experience. There was, of course, over half a cake left, which went into the freezer for hubby's bday next month.

That was it for me. I had no desire to continue the party- and not in a "aren't I great, all I had was a tiny piece of cake" way, but, truly, that was all I wanted.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I would love to get there!  And by "there" I mean getting past/over/beyond/through the idea of being a conspicuous martyr (or conspicuous health nut, or conspicuous chubby person -- I've got all three going on at different times).  It sounds like you have reached a wonderful place: where happiness is the end game, not the food.  And making the cake with your daughter...that sounds like truly sweet times, far sweeter than plain old sugar.    tx for sharing your story.

[graciousr]

You know it's funny, I had so many foods that I couldn't wait to eat again.

For example, dairy! But when I had that milk in my coffee it was weird and completely didn't match up with my memories of it. So now I don't have it. 

 

I'll enjoy a slice of sourdough bread and some pasta but to be frank I'm happy to leave the rest of it. 

 

I think those food memories and food nostalgia try pretty hard to convince us they're the stuff of legend.