Post Whole30 gut explosion + reintroduction help

[dead_poet]

We've technically been done with our 30 days for about a week. I'm having a real hard time developing a new menu. I'm afraid of everything and now don't want to put anything "bad" into our bodies. But my wife doesn't want to be "Whole30 for life." Help!

In the meantime, I've developed some real intestinal "issues," which is very much unlike me (I've never been known to have a food allergy or sensitivity). Our two-year old has been having similar issus as well (though it's been an ongoing thing and I think a bit longer than me). I don't think it's any kind of parasite and is more food-related because my wife is eating the same things and is fine and we had our daughter tested for bugs because it worried us after a week of non-normal diapers and the tests have come back negative. We had her tested for Celiac when she was a year old — because my wife is and I know it's genetic — and it was negative also (she's now 2).

I'm trying to think what food could be the culprit. I've made some coconut/almond tortillas, this time with almond milk. I've never had problems with soy or regular milk before. I can't imagine this is the issue. Especially since my wife (whom any milk outside of rice milk bothers) was fine with them. We've been having some spicy-ish food as well, but spicy food has never been known to bother me. I made an avocado crema salsa that called for raw cashews, but avocados and cashews have never bothered me either. I've done some more with jalapenos, when before W30 I never really have.

I made some homemade granola like I did MANY times before Whole 30 when trying to reintroduce gluten-free grain and have been eating that a little. The recipe for that is: Oates, honey, vanilla, cinnamon, pecans, walnuts, almonds, oil (calls for peanut but I used EVOO this time around), brown sugar, salt. Oates, brown sugar and honey are the only things that have changed from W30, and it's NEVER bothered me before.

I'm seriously afraid to eat much right now and can't figure out what's going on. Any advice? Do I just keep at Whole30 and simply try one day with a glass or two of almond milk and see if that's the culprit?

[Tom Denham]

Your almond milk probably has some nasty ingredients in it. All the almond milk sold in cartons is a bad idea. So that might be more of a problem than you think.

Adding back a variety of foods at once makes it impossible to figure out what you are having a problem with. Try going back to Whole30 eating for 3 to 5 days and then reintroduce one thing at a time.

[dead_poet]

Can things that never bothered you before all of a sudden start to disagree with you after your Whole30?

I'm going to make my own almond/hazelnut/cashew milk. I thought that almond milk would be better and softer transition than cow milk. Maybe I'm wrong?

Ingredients: Organic almondmilk (filtered water, organic almonds), tricalcium phosphate, sea salt, xanthan gum, potassium citrate, sunflower lecithin, vitamin a palmitate, ergocalciferol (vitamin d2), dl-alpha tocopherol acetate (vitamin e).

Allergen Information: Contains tree nut (almond) ingredients. Produced in a facility that processes milk and soy.

[Laura B]

Seems like you could have built up a tolerance preW30 and now your body is really sensitive to things it wasn't before?

[Adagio]

Yes, you can definitely develop food sensitivities at any time in your life.

For example, I cannot eat foods with a lot of sugar, they make me nauseous. I can no longer eat more than one or two stone fruits per week or I get major intestinal distress. Gluten-free bread gives me heartburn.

Quite possibly it is the almond milk, the oats, or the sugar. Or a combination of all three. Oats (even the certified gluten-free oats) may be cross-contaminated with wheat gluten.

The only way to find out is to eliminate these foods for a week and then re-introduce.

[dead_poet]

Seems like you could have built up a tolerance preW30 and now your body is really sensitive to things it wasn't before?

Well that's an interesting development if that's the case. I used to do a lot of protein shakes w. granola, flax, peanut butter, soy milk and 100% whey. I'm terrified to try that. I guess I'll just keep off everything and maybe try a glass of regular milk in a few days while keeping everything else normal.

This was not something I anticipated.

[dead_poet]

Yes, you can definitely develop food sensitivities at any time in your life.

I'm sure W30 is the reason behind this. It's not a coincidence if I all of a sudden have an intolerance to milk or sugar (even though I consumed both minimally before). How odd/frustrating.

For example, I cannot eat foods with a lot of sugar, they make me nauseous. I can no longer eat more than one or two stone fruits per week or I get major intestinal distress. Gluten-free bread gives me heartburn.

Were you always like this or did these sensitivities occur following W30?

Quite possibly it is the almond milk, the oats, or the sugar. Or a combination of all three. Oats (even the certified gluten-free oats) may be cross-contaminated with wheat gluten.

The oats were raw oats from Whole Foods. I can't imagine they were cross-contaminated. I'm thinking it's the almond milk. I never had almond milk before this Whole Foods brand carton but almonds don't bother me and milk never has. Like I mentioned, I'll try normal milk in a couple of days. Though...I'm nerrrrrrvous.

The only way to find out is to eliminate these foods for a week and then re-introduce.

I suppose you're right. Why is this the hardest/most frustrating thing about the entire W30?!

[anjelevil]

I never thought I had a problem with dairy and I am incredibly in tune with my body.After the whole 30 ended I tried a dairy reintroduction and it made me very ill.

I also came to realise I have a problem with white potatoes.

When you give your body a rest it's true colours really come out to let you know what it doesn't like

[Laura B]

I had whey protein every day for a year and "didn't have an issue". But after about 60 days completely dairy free, I had ice cream. And then I had diarrhea. I think after a while your body sort of tolerates this food, and then once you eliminate them, the true colors show like anjelevil said.

[Adagio]

I'm sure W30 is the reason behind this. It's not a coincidence if I all of a sudden have an intolerance to milk or sugar (even though I consumed both minimally before). How odd/frustrating.

What you are experiencing is your body's way of telling you that it is working properly. Whole30 is an elimination diet. When you do an elimination diet, you detox your body. After that, it begins working properly again, in most cases. What you are experiencing is your body working properly - telling you what it doesn't want.

Were you always like this or did these sensitivities occur following W30?

My sensitivites started a long time ago. I was always allergic to milk, but some stupid doctor told my mother that when I reached 6 years of age, the allergy would go away. So I ate cheese and milk and yogurt my entire life. I also ate tons of wheat. Over the years, I become very sick from those foods but didn't know what was causing it. When I learned 3 years ago I was gluten/casein intolerant I gave up those foods. After my body detoxed, I become sensitive to sugar and some stone fruits. I believe this is because my body is working better and telling me what it does not want/need.

The oats were raw oats from Whole Foods. I can't imagine they were cross-contaminated. I'm thinking it's the almond milk. I never had almond milk before this Whole Foods brand carton but almonds don't bother me and milk never has. Like I mentioned, I'll try normal milk in a couple of days. Though...I'm nerrrrrrvous.

Cross contamination of oats with wheat occurs long before they reach the store. Even oats that are certified gluten-free (like Bob's Red Mill) can affect certain folks. The two crops are rotatated and/or grown next to each other in some cases. The same equipment is used to process them. I'm gluten intolerant and cannot eat oats

Quite possibly it was the other ingredients in the almond milk. BTW, do you think they use the best-quality almonds in making almond milk? Doubtful. If you like it, try making it yourself with nothing but good quality raw, soaked almonds (you can even buy them from Italy - not irradiated) and see how you feel.

I suppose you're right. Why is this the hardest/most frustrating thing about the entire W30?!

I guess you could look at it that way. I look at it differently. I am glad my body is finally able to tell me what it does not want/need. Sure, I hate eliminating certain foods. But there are still a lot of things I CAN eat.

[dead_poet]

I had whey protein every day for a year and "didn't have an issue". But after about 60 days completely dairy free, I had ice cream. And then I had diarrhea. I think after a while your body sort of tolerates this food, and then once you eliminate them, the true colors show like anjelevil said.

Were you able to go back on whey? I really want to go back to my protein shakes (without issue). I know they aren't an ideal form of protein consumption, but they're just so much more convenient, quick and economical. I don't mind my post-workout pumpkin "pudding" these days though (egg whites, coconut milk, pecans, canned pumpkin, sugar-free vanilla, mashed ripe banana).

I'm having a hard time looking at it from the perspective that this is a GOOD thing. I've lost weight when I'm attempting to gain and now feel worse when I eat than when I started, having problems when before none existed! Coming off W30/Paleo while developing a menu for the week is unexpectedly difficult. I'm not sure how to plan, nor what my/our goals are now. I'm not sure if we want to be strict paleo forever.

[dead_poet]

What you are experiencing is your body working properly - telling you what it doesn't want.

Which is odd, since it never told me that before. I suppose I developed a tolerance. But if something never bothers you, never negatively affects your day-to-day or makes you feel bad, is it really that detrimental? Unless it could cause major issues down the line.

Cross contamination of oats with wheat occurs long before they reach the store. Even oats that are certified gluten-free (like Bob's Red Mill) can affect certain folks. The two crops are rotatated and/or grown next to each other in some cases. The same equipment is used to process them. I'm gluten intolerant and cannot eat oats

I'll have to double-check the oat container at WF. Gluten has never bothered me before, though, and to my knowledge doesn't run in my family. My wife is celiac, and it does with her, however. Though in the past she's always eaten my granola and never reported any issues (like the issues before she was diagnosed). I have some made, but the problem is it contains brown sugar and honey in addition to the oats, so if it does bother her we may not be able to say for sure it was the oats. We both suspect she has issues with sugar (which doesn't bode well because she has a mighty sweet tooth).

Quite possibly it was the other ingredients in the almond milk. BTW, do you think they use the best-quality almonds in making almond milk? Doubtful. If you like it, try making it yourself with nothing but good quality raw, soaked almonds (you can even buy them from Italy - not irradiated) and see how you feel.

Maybe I trust Whole Foods too much (we just got our first one in July of this year). I figured anything with their name on it has to be good for you (well, or at least not made with junk). I DO plan on making my own nut milk and just received my first nut milk bag. We'll see how it goes. But I may try a glass or two of "normal" milk for a couple of days before this to see if I have to check that off my list forever now.

I guess you could look at it that way. I look at it differently. I am glad my body is finally able to tell me what it does not want/need. Sure, I hate eliminating certain foods. But there are still a lot of things I CAN eat.

I totally understand where you're coming from. But as a person that has never had trouble with any food, it's frustrating to find I'm having issues now (as opposed to someone starting W30 already feeling crappy, figuring out what makes them ill, avoiding those foods and feeling better).

[Laura B]

Were you able to go back on whey? I really want to go back to my protein shakes (without issue). I know they aren't an ideal form of protein consumption, but they're just so much more convenient, quick and economical. I don't mind my post-workout pumpkin "pudding" these days though (egg whites, coconut milk, pecans, canned pumpkin, sugar-free vanilla, mashed ripe banana).

I'm having a hard time looking at it from the perspective that this is a GOOD thing. I've lost weight when I'm attempting to gain and now feel worse when I eat than when I started, having problems when before none existed! Coming off W30/Paleo while developing a menu for the week is unexpectedly difficult. I'm not sure how to plan, nor what my/our goals are now. I'm not sure if we want to be strict paleo forever.

No I have chosen not to have protein shakes ever again if I can help it. I think it is silly to waste money on something that isn't even food. Aside from that, I would rather eat food. It is a bit more time consuming, but to me it is worth it. I usually have some canned or smoked salmon after my workout and then will eat dinner 30-45 min later.

[/i]

I totally understand where you're coming from. But as a person that has never had trouble with any food, it's frustrating to find I'm having issues now (as opposed to someone starting W30 already feeling crappy, figuring out what makes them ill, avoiding those foods and feeling better).

I have to say...I think your attitude is a major factor here. I started the Whole 30 not because my body felt crappy, but because my mind felt crappy. I was using supplements (protein powder, pre- and intra- workout powders, etc) as a crutch. As a fool, I thought I had mostly given up dairy while having at least 2 whey shakes a day and 1 casein at night. Human beings are not supposed to consume the milk designed for another species' young. I would definitely suggest having that milk, there is no other way to know if your body can tolerate the dairy.

It is also not that you all of a sudden have a tolerance for these things, but that your body can now show you how sensitive it really is. For me, I never gave up dairy (despite my poor logic), so it was something my body regularly consumed for 25 years. 30 days will clean me out enough that I can notice a difference, but not long enough for my body to reap the full benefits of that elimination. Before, your body was just functioning because it had built up some sort of resistance or ulterior way of living despite the things it clearly doesn't like.

Seems to me you are very adamant that you can still have all of these foods and I have to ask you, why did you do the whole 30 in the first place?

[dead_poet]

I have to say...I think your attitude is a major factor here. I started the Whole 30 not because my body felt crappy, but because my mind felt crappy.

I understand that. I guess the difference between us is I didn't notice my mind feeling crappy. I wasn't feeling crappy at all! However I have noticed a marginal mental "clearing" effect (if that makes sense). Not that I feel as though I'm getting smarter or processing information faster. Just more of a perception thing, albiet minor.

It is also not that you all of a sudden have a tolerance for these things, but that your body can now show you how sensitive it really is. For me, I never gave up dairy (despite my poor logic), so it was something my body regularly consumed for 25 years. 30 days will clean me out enough that I can notice a difference, but not long enough for my body to reap the full benefits of that elimination. Before, your body was just functioning because it had built up some sort of resistance or ulterior way of living despite the things it clearly doesn't like.

I buy that. My body really hasn't known much else than the way I was living before W30. However while I wasn't eating W30 or Paleo "clean" I considered myself to be a healthy eater, particularly the last 5-10 years (no fast food, no sugary drinks, no soda, no caffeine, minimal dairy, plenty of meat, veggies, nuts and fruit, all home made meals, etc.). But I was eating some wheat and dairy (particularly in the morning your standard toast w. peanut butter & jelly & cereal w. 1% milk ) and lunch (sometimes cold meat sandwiches & cheese). But over 20 years my body obviously adapted. But that adaptation wasn't causing any issues that I could see or feel. However that doesn't mean things weren't bothering it.

Seems to me you are very adamant that you can still have all of these foods

I'm not sure what "all these foods" is referring to. Would I like to have my protein shakes again? Yes. But I can get by without them, now that I've found a "real food" substitute. However I never considered them unhealthy. In fact, I thought I was being pretty darn healthy with my concoction (home made granola, banana, peanut butter, soy or 1% milk, ice, flax seed)! However after reading W30, the only things in my shake that are actually "ok" are the banana, flax and ice. Even the shake itself isn't approved! Though I know that being off W30 maybe it's okay now even if it's not ideal? At any rate, I'll have to test each various individual ingredients before even attempting that again (if I even do).

Now that I've found zucchini noodles as a delicious substitute for gluten-free (or regular) pasta noodles, I'm comfortable ridding myself of them, if necessary. While I'm not as big of a fan of coconut tortillas as flour, I wouldn't be horribly upset if those fall by the wayside. I'm very okay with almond or cashew butter as a substitute for peanut butter. Cauliflower rice is just as tasty (or more so) than regular rice. I'd love to drink juice again or other beverages aside from water from time to time (I used to really love arnold palmers, Snapple makes a great "diet" one). I wouldn't consider myself addicted to any food and because I feel I ate pretty healthy before, I'd love to continue to eat some of the same things, provided they don't have any negative impact on my body. Perhaps that's flawed thinking.

and I have to ask you, why did you do the whole 30 in the first place?

I started Whole30 because my wife wasn't feeling very well. She's celiac and has been gluten-free for about 5 years now. She learned of W30 from a friend and wanted to try it. I make all the meals (I enjoy it, she soooooo doesn't) and wanted to be supportive. I want her to feel good all day, all the time and I know foods (negatively) affect her more than they do me. I knew that if she was going to succeed with this I'd have to commit 100% and provide us both with all W30-approved meals. She's seen more benefits than I have thus far, though she hasn't lost the weight she was hoping for. She doesn't feel bloated and is "regular" without the need for added fiber supplements.

I enjoy challenges and getting healthier and excited to see if this would have a positive impact on my health and body (though I have no known health issues). I hope this helps. I appreciate the feedback.

[Adagio]

Here's the way I look at it. You can either eat REAL food that nourishes your body and gives you no negative reactions, or you can eat what you want and suffer the consequences.

"Convenient" and "Easy" foods have destroyed the health of people for over 60 years. I am 56 years old and after eating what I wanted for years, and having gotten very sick as a result, I no longer have the easy and convenient options - which is fine with me. Having to choose proper foods, and prepare them myself has taught me patience and what a true reward is.

You are free to do what you want, but there are always consequences to our actions.

Perhaps it is easy for me to see the big picture here, because of what I've been through and continue to experience - though since going Paleo my health has greatly improved, and I am sure will continue to do so over time.

[Adagio]

You said you were eating healthy before Whole30, You mentioned peanut butter, jelly and 1% milk. All of those foods are bad for the gut. Your gut plays a huge role in the health of your body. If you eat foods that negatively affect the gut, over time, your body will get totally out of whack.

[dead_poet]

You said you were eating healthy before Whole30, You mentioned peanut butter, jelly and 1% milk. All of those foods are bad for the gut. Your gut plays a huge role in the health of your body. If you eat foods that negatively affect the gut, over time, your body will get totally out of whack.

I suppose a lot of it is education. Before reading the book I really never thought peanut butter, jelly (low sugar or no-sugar added) and milk was considered "bad." Though I had heard back-and-forth about milk. Which is why I eventually gravitated over to soy milk. Which, I've since learned, isn't a better alternative! I really hope I like my homemade nut milks and am able to make them with relative ease. Unless I'm mistaken (which I usually am), they are the preferred option, most nutritious as least detrimental. Like I mentioned in a previous post, almond and cashew butters are a fine alternative to peanut. Would replacing jelly with fruit preserves be a better option? Not that I'm planning on eating a lot of dishes that require jelly/preserves in the first place.

[dead_poet]

Here's the way I look at it. You can either eat REAL food that nourishes your body and gives you no negative reactions, or you can eat what you want and suffer the consequences.

Obviously I want to eat real food that doesn't make me feel terrible. The thing is, before W30, nothing made me feel terrible! I'm not going to now jump into milk (metaphorically) and drink it, feel awful but keep drinking it until I develop another tolerance. That'd just be stupid. Once I try some things out individually I'll make the determination if they negatively affect me. I'll stay away from the things that do.

Perhaps it is easy for me to see the big picture here, because of what I've been through and continue to experience - though since going Paleo my health has greatly improved, and I am sure will continue to do so over time.

That's the thing: my health seems to be getting worse (even though I know in the rational part of my brain that that's not the case. It's just my body finally being able to tell me what it doesn't want). I didn't start this feeling bad. I started this feeling good! And now I'm feeling bad. I'm bizarro you! Hopefully I get to the bottom of this soon. Thanks for the input.

[Renee Lee]

dead_poet, while I understand your frustration, have you read the book?

Melissa and Dallas outline four "good food standards" that food should conform to if you want to optimize your health. Some of the foods you're looking to reintroduce violate those food standards. Is that worth it to you? It sounds like it is to YOU, but that your body it's trying to tell you that violating those food standards is totally not worth it for IT.

Rather than the W30 creating the food intolerances, it's more likely that you're just more aware of them than you were before. If you're allergic to cats, and you live with one, you're going to be miserable for a few days...but eventually you'll get to a baseline level of suck. If you stay with this cat for a year, or even 2, you're going to forget what "normal" feels like. Let's say you go on vacation for a week and get away from the cat, everything's great! eyes aren't itchy! nose isn't always sorta running! It's fantastic. Once you get back into the house with the cat, it's going to hit you like a ton of bricks. You aren't going to see that baseline level of suck for awhile. EVERYTHING is amplified. (I know this from personal experience)

This is mostly applicable to you in regards to your gut health. Eating the foods you used to eat on a regular basis pre Whole30 was like rubbing sandpaper on an open wound, whether you experienced symptoms or not. You're certainly feeling them NOW, right? So there's something there.

The specific foods that you're trying to reintroduce here: nut milks, oats, whey, etc, and to a lesser extent (for some people) sugar, are all INCREDIBLY irritating to the gut. You're really throwing gas on the fire with your reintroduction here.

I'd argue that nut milks are NOT the most nutritious option of excluded foods; grassfed dairy is, followed by legumes. nut milks can be highly irritating to folks that are sensitive to them (which is sounds like you are)

My suggestion is to hop back on the W30 for a week to reset your system, reevaluate your goals, and then reintroduce your foods in a logical, systemic manner, so you know _exactly_ what's causing problems. Don't make a protein shake with whey, almond milk and oats, because that gives you NO idea what's going on.

Then, if you decide that your shakes and convenience are more important for your situation, that is totally fine and there is no judgment here about that decision. However, you should buckle up for a wild (and not so pleasant) ride while you return to that "baseline of suck" that I was referring to above. (and yes, i understand that your baseline didn't suck so much for you...neither does my cat baseline)

[Renee Lee]

Side note: I'm confused as to all the pieces of your situation, specifically your first post vs. all the other followup posts.

a.) Your wife is celiac and crossreacts with dairy.

b.) Your son has intolerances to some unknown thing that you've recently reintroduced (probably the nut milks, btw)

c.) You're scared of adding anything back that's unhealthy

and most importantly,

d.) You do the cooking

Given d.) I don't understand where the problem comes in regarding reintroduction. If you didn't want to reintroduce things in the first place, why are you? and why are you trying to justify that reintroduction when it originally sounded like you didn't really want to?

I'm not saying that c.) is a healthy place to live either. I think you just need to recognize and come to terms with a couple of things: 1) some food choices aren't optimal and 2) which of THOSE suboptimal food choices you are interesting in budging on and doesn't make your life/body miserable.

[dead_poet]

dead_poet, while I understand your frustration, have you read the book?

Yes. But I've since given it to someone else so I no longer have the reference. I may have to ask for it back.

Melissa and Dallas outline four "good food standards" that food should conform to if you want to optimize your health. Some of the foods you're looking to reintroduce violate those food standards. Is that worth it to you? It sounds like it is to YOU, but that your body it's trying to tell you that violating those food standards is totally not worth it for IT.

Maybe my issue is I'm not sure if it's okay to eat some foods that don't pass all four "good food standards" when OFF W30. I think one of my/our clear issues is determining where we want to "be" in our eating now that we've completed W30. Last I checked, we were going to go slowly with some re-introduction. But that went off schedule when my wife requested my granola while also incorporating some almond milk and it was ME that largely had the issues (I didn't see THAT coming). It's been about 4 days since I've had any problems and I've since been back on a W30 diet to get myself re-calibrated so I can systematically try reintroduction. I assume if some of the non-"good food standard" foods do not negatively affect me/us in any way it'd be fine to keep consuming them going forward?

Regarding whether or not it's worth it for me, I honestly don't know. I DO know it's not worth it if the foods I ate previously are going to cause me issues NOW. I want to listen to my body and avoid foods that make me feel awful. I'm just a bit surprised that I'm finding foods that are causing issues when previously none existed. I guess I never anticipated this after entering into W30 feeling "fine."

Rather than the W30 creating the food intolerances, it's more likely that you're just more aware of them than you were before. If you're allergic to cats, and you live with one, you're going to be miserable for a few days...but eventually you'll get to a baseline level of suck. If you stay with this cat for a year, or even 2, you're going to forget what "normal" feels like. Let's say you go on vacation for a week and get away from the cat, everything's great! eyes aren't itchy! nose isn't always sorta running! It's fantastic. Once you get back into the house with the cat, it's going to hit you like a ton of bricks. You aren't going to see that baseline level of suck for awhile. EVERYTHING is amplified. (I know this from personal experience)

It's funny you mention this. We have two cats and while they don't bother me, I have been tested for allergies (I have bad seasonal ones) I found I apparently AM allergic to cats. I don't think we could get rid of them, though. However they shall not be replaced.

The specific foods that you're trying to reintroduce here: nut milks, oats, whey, etc, and to a lesser extent (for some people) sugar, are all INCREDIBLY irritating to the gut. You're really throwing gas on the fire with your reintroduction here.

I haven't had whey since before beginning W30. But I didn't realize nut milks (not soy) were that potentially hazardous. It's good to know.

I'd argue that nut milks are NOT the most nutritious option of excluded foods; grassfed dairy is, followed by legumes. nut milks can be highly irritating to folks that are sensitive to them (which is sounds like you are)

I was comparing nut milks to regular milk. My plan is to try dairy milk first all by itself for a couple of days. Depending on how that goes, trying to make my own hazelnut milk. Smart? Then oats again.

My suggestion is to hop back on the W30 for a week to reset your system, reevaluate your goals, and then reintroduce your foods in a logical, systemic manner, so you know _exactly_ what's causing problems.

That's my plan!

Don't make a protein shake with whey, almond milk and oats, because that gives you NO idea what's going on.

I haven't yet, and won't until I know for certain the specific individual ingredients agree with me.

Then, if you decide that your shakes and convenience are more important for your situation, that is totally fine and there is no judgment here about that decision. However, you should buckle up for a wild (and not so pleasant) ride while you return to that "baseline of suck" that I was referring to above. (and yes, i understand that your baseline didn't suck so much for you...neither does my cat baseline)

I certainly don't want to return to a "baseline of suck." But, for me, personally, W30 hasn't made me feel noticeably better in any way. I wonder how common this is. Thanks!

[dead_poet]

Side note: I'm confused as to all the pieces of your situation, specifically your first post vs. all the other followup posts.

I'm sorry!

a.) Your wife is celiac and crossreacts with dairy.

Yes, and I think also sugar to some degree.

b.) Your son has intolerances to some unknown thing that you've recently reintroduced (probably the nut milks, btw)

Daughter. And yes. But I never gave her any of the almond milk. However she did have some bites of a coconut tortilla that had some almond milk in it. We've since stopped giving her milk entirely and that seems to be helping. We're limiting the gluten she has at home but she's continuing to have some at daycare. We want to just cut out milk for now so we don't have too many variables going. The more I think about it, though, the more I'd probably prefer to cut out gluten entirely out of her diet. But that would require some more planning, discussion with her mother and with the daycare provider. But cutting out the milk has given her more "normal" diapers and I've noticed she's been a bit less cranky/happier lately. I'm not entirely sure if that's in my head, a coincidence, or some kind of correlation. She's two and it's hard to figure it out at that age.

c.) You're scared of adding anything back that's unhealthy

Yes. Though there are varying degrees of "unhealthy" (say a McDonalds cheeseburger compared to home made granola). But yes.

d.) You do the cooking

Yes. It's 100% me.

Given d.) I don't understand where the problem comes in regarding reintroduction. If you didn't want to reintroduce things in the first place, why are you? and why are you trying to justify that reintroduction when it originally sounded like you didn't really want to?

I don't know, to be honest. I suppose it's some pressure from my wife. I don't think she wants to be 100% W30 diet/paleo forever. She wants my granola, she wants some sugar treats (ice cream, yogurt, candy), she wants corn tortillas, GF cereal, GF pizza. Of course, she wants all that now but we haven't tried anything other than the granola and see how she feels to determine of it's worth her feeling awful (I hope the answer to that is no, but I can easily see her saying eating the ice cream and feeling awful for the next 2 days is totally worth it, unfortunately).

I think part of me also likes the convenience of a lot of the previous foods, our old menu/lifestyle was/is more economical, and developing a menu for the week, compiling a list, hitting an inconvenient Whole Foods that's always busy, going to the Farmer's Market just takes a lot of time, work and planning. Though the menu creation and list development has become a bit easier the more we find meals we enjoy and want to replicate.

I think you just need to recognize and come to terms with a couple of things: 1) some food choices aren't optimal and 2) which of THOSE suboptimal food choices you are interesting in budging on and doesn't make your life/body miserable.

That makes total sense. I think the issue right now is figuring those out. I/we have no idea what those may be, given that we haven't had them to see how our bodies react.

I really appreciate you taking the time to help. I hope I'm clarifying some things and not making them murkier.

[Laura B]

I understand that. I guess the difference between us is I didn't notice my mind feeling crappy. I wasn't feeling crappy at all! However I have noticed a marginal mental "clearing" effect (if that makes sense). Not that I feel as though I'm getting smarter or processing information faster. Just more of a perception thing, albiet minor.

Well I was more referring to an obsessive state I was in measuring all of my foods, counting calories, weighing portions, timing every bite of food, etc. I was near basket case in that respect. I wasn't trying to imply that you were there or felt crappy at all...just that some folks do it for a number of different reasons.

And I think what I really wanted to know was if you read the book ISWF because it would give you a lot more insight as why you should eliminate these foods and essentially not reintroduce them. All of that is up to you, of course.

Renee said what I wanted to in a far better way. I hope you can find some sort of middle ground where you can have the things you want and not have a gut explosion. Good luck!

[dead_poet]

Well I was more referring to an obsessive state I was in measuring all of my foods, counting calories, weighing portions, timing every bite of food, etc. I was near basket case in that respect. I wasn't trying to imply that you were there or felt crappy at all...just that some folks do it for a number of different reasons.

I understand. I was/am getting close to that as well. Doing "protein math", counting calories, trying to cram down more protein, trying to eat every three hours but the guy at the gym said to "fast" for the first three when you wake up, but wait, another book says to...blah, blah,blah

<sound of head exploding>

I still obviously don't have it figured out yet. But I'm glad I'm here and we're trying. It was mainly for my wife, but if I get healthier because of it (while somehow accomplishing my own individual goals) that would be a great bonus.

And I think what I really wanted to know was if you read the book ISWF because it would give you a lot more insight as why you should eliminate these foods and essentially not reintroduce them. All of that is up to you, of course.

Yes, I've read it. I recall it being very helpful (if not a little intimidating). I suppose I saw this as a trial 30 days and never looked at the long-term picture. That's not surprising with me, though. I tend to tackle things in the here and now. "The future is later!" I proclaim to my wife's dismay. Well, Whole 30 is "done" now. At least the 30 days. I'm still in the "now what?" frame of mind.

hope you can find some sort of middle ground where you can have the things you want and not have a gut explosion. Good luck!

You guys are helping me come to terms with maybe this isn't a short-term trial and going all paleo is an entire lifestyle change. Forever. I'll have to sit down with my wife and discuss it. I just don't think she's going to be all that excited, even though I maintain she'll feel so much better in the long run. She loves food and I know it would break her heart if she couldn't have my GF pumpkin cookies, GF pumpkin bread, seasonal treats/cookies, etc. Maybe those are the exceptions and "special treats" every so often and far less frequent than she had been indulging in. I obviously can't make the decision for her. She'll have to decide. But at least she'll know what she's in for.

The more I think about it, though, the more I'm okay with going as full-on paleo as possible. After all, this is our health (and the health of our child). We only get one body. Why fill it up with the wrong fuel? Thanks so much.