Day 23....week 2 of diarrhea.

[dizilizi]

I'm really not sure what is going on. I have had diarrhea for almost 2 weeks straight. I thought the culprit could've been coconut because I had started drinking coconut water after hot yoga, but I've since cut it out and I'm not noticing a difference. This is my second Whole30 and I plan on continuing for 5 more months a least. I was just diagnosed with Hashimoto's and want to give my body time to heal from the gluten and get my energy back. Suggestions?

The last 2 days my meals have looked like this:

Today

Old school Italian meat sauce

Chicken salad

(Home canned dill pickles, bell peppers, green onions, pepper flakes)

Olives

Orange pepper

Tangelo

Cracklings chicken

Roasted root veggies

Green beans

Yesterday

Breakfast hash with bacon, root veggies and eggs

Old school Italian meat sauce

Almond butter

Apple

2 fried eggs and some bacon

Saturday

Breakfast hash roasted veggies, eggs, and bacon and a kiwi

Old school Italian meat sauce with plantain nachos and olives

Don't remember what we had for dinner

I drink only water and have been drinking ginger tea to settle my stomach.

liz

[Brewer5]

Diarrhea is a pretty common side effect of levothyroxine.  Has this been prescribed to you?

[dizilizi]

Yes it has. I think I may be calling my doc tomorrow.

Thank you!

[dizilizi]

I am actually on liothyronine. Still need to call the doc tomorrow.

[dizilizi]

Called my doc, I'm seeing her tomorrow. I am so bloated and just hurt. The diarrhea has slowed down, but I hurt. I just want my sickie comfort food, which I know I wouldn't be able to eat anyway because toast has gluten.

She doesn't think it's my meds, but possibly my gall bladder. I'm not sure I agree, since my first Whole30, I've done a couple Whole14's and honestly have eaten about 70% paleo because I just feel better.

While I just want to have ginger ale and toast, I know I won't go there. I'm too close to quit.

Any other thoughts? I am going to ask her about FODMAPS, and AIP.

[Brewer5]

Have you tried the low-FODMAP approach, yet?

Looking at the sample of food you posted -- I can tell you that I don't do well with tomato sauces, onions, sweet potatoes, apples... These are all things which have caused me some serious upset in the past.

I am on my phone, so I don't have the link handy -- but my favorite FODMAP chart can be found my googling "The Paleo Mom FODMAPs". She has a great article and the chart is about halfway down the page. Take a look at it & see what you think.

[Carlaccini]

Also consider adding bone broth or a bone broth based soup to your meals - make sure that they do not contain FODMAPs (Brewer mentions a great list above) as that may aggravate your current condition.  

[Brewer5]

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/08/modifying-paleo-for-fodmap-intolerance.html

 

Here it is!  

[dizilizi]

So, I have pulled all but onions, garlic, and apples from my diet (I've never noticed problems with them) and I'm still having problems, but not nearly as bad. My naturopath is concerned that it's my gall bladder. I have an ultra sound scheduled for next Friday. We'll see. I'm now on day 35 and feeling pretty good, other than the diarrhea problem.

[Brewer5]

I am glad you are feeling better... And I promise I have no reason to make things more restrictive for you... But I just have to say that ONIONS and GARLIC are two of the biggest offenders. Like, they have special warnings on other FODMAP sites I have looked at. Almost in a class by themselves. And my last apple experience was just that ~ my last apple experience. It was pretty bad.

[dizilizi]

I can try taking them out of recipes. Friday night I had bockwurst, saurkraut, mustard and. Roasted veggies for dinner and woke up miserable. Lunch was chicken salad. I make it with paleo mayo, canned chicken, homemade dill pickles, bell peppers, and green onions ( just the tops). Oh my heck, not good.

I'll be very honest, I hate the idea of having more foods taken away from me. In November, I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's and told to take all gluten and sugar from my diet, literally a week before Thanksgiving. I tried it, totally failed, so at Christmas, I ate whatever I wanted because I knew it would be the last time for the rest of my life that I would get to eat those foods, food that have been a part of every holiday since I was little. I realized that it wasn't just gluten, but all grains have to go for at least six months, if not the rest of my life. I hate it!! Now, I have to give up more?! I'm not sure I am willing.

Not only am I giving up foods, but because I tire so easily, I am having to learn how to exercise differently, no more long work outs, I'm not even sure if I'll be able to run anymore, let alone the half marathons I wanted to run this summer. Yes, I am angry, so much has been taken from me and I have no say in it. I am so grateful that I had the chance to summit Mt. Adams this last summer, that I got to backpack into Snow Lakes (in the Enchantments above Leavenworth, WA, with a 50#+ pack) because I don't know how my body will handle it this summer. I love running, hiking, and backpacking. I want to summit more mountains, run more races, and so much more.

Obviously, I am frustrated and just a little angry. I'll work it all out, somehow I need to solve this. It just seems like no matter what I eat, it doesn't get better.

[Brewer5]

I hear your frustration, and I'm sorry.  I am only trying to help.

 

I saw that praxisproject provided you with all of the links to the Autoimmune Protocol (AIP) on another thread.  Have you looked into that, or considered it at all?

 

Because Hashi's is an autoimmune condition, and because you have now completed two Whole 30's, and because you are still having problems ~ that may be the direction you really need to go.

 

I understand you do not want to remove more foods.  But this is supposed to be temporary...  to allow your body the time it needs to heal, without these other factors involved.  You can (and ideally will) re-introduce foods one at a time as you go on, and see how you do with it.

 

You may never be able to eat sugar and grains without feeling like crap again.  That is how it is for the majority of us ... Hashi's or not.

 

Have you seen Sarah Ballantyne's book, The Paleo Approach:  Reverse Autoimmune Disease and Heal Your Body?  That thing is like a textbook ~ SO full of great info.  It's a beauty, for sure.  I own it, but have not even come close to reading through the entire thing.  But I do not have an autoimmune condition.  If I did ~ as of right now, that would be my #1 resource.

[dizilizi]

I know you are trying to help, and I do appreciate it. I'm fighting the inevitable. Whole30 was a choice I made so that I felt some control in my life. I have looked briefly at AIP, but again, it's taking things away. I know, when I'm feeling less anxious and angry, I'll be more open to both FODMAPs and AIP. It took me a while to accept having to cut gluten and sugar too. It is a process, thank you for your help and advice.

I sat down during church and listed as many blessings as I could. I filled 3 pages in my journal, as I did that, I was able to see that giving up a few foods really isn't that big of a deal compared to all I have. Am I ready to give those foods up even temporarily, I'm not sure because I am also asking my family to give them up to an extent as well. They have been really supportive to this point, but I don't know how supportive they will be of this next step. I know it's temporary, but what if it isn't for everything?

I'll have to pick up that book, the more I can learn about Hashi's the better. Thank you so much.

[Brewer5]

I understand it's hard to make these changes.  I think you will get to a point where you are ready to accept what you need to do ~ but it is a process, for sure.

 

My family still eats things that I don't.  I have to make a choice each day to feel my best and keep my head on straight.  There are foods (and then there are "foods" ) which don't support that goal for me ~ and so, they have had to go.

 

I know you want to be really active ~ and I hope you are able to get your body healed up to the point where you are able to do that again.  Sometimes we have to look ahead, to that mountain we want to climb, and not get tripped up by the weeds and the branches that are right in front of our feet.  Step carefully over and around them, and continue to move forward ~ with your mind set on climbing that mountain when you get there.

 

 

[Carlaccini]

I totally, totally, TOTALLY get the head space that you are in - I was there last year or so. 

 

I have multiple autoimmune conditions - they are all skin conditions - but I don't wish to have them so there are certain foods I do have to cut out.  Then on top of it I discovered I was having issues with IBS type symptoms.  I was going through a ton of stress last year - so it actually wasn't that surprising that my digestion was just plain off.

 

But I never actually did a formal whole 30 for low FODMAP or AIP.  I just took my time, tried to be patient and tried to work through things. I didn't like being restricted to basically eating zucchini and cucumber (I hate cucumber BTW). But literally it felt like everything was upsetting my digestion and giving me a pregnant food belly.    So what I tried to do was a little bit of eating "safe foods" until I felt better.  I had figured out my personal safe foods. So my first focus was to focus on what I could have.  Then I could try building from there.

 

Then it was eat until I feel better.  Then introduce a high FODMAP veggie - then note my reaction.  Ok - cauliflower not worth it ever, but broccoli is a sometimes food (think once or twice a week).  Onions I should completely give up - but alas they make things taste so good.  So they are delegated to a recipe that I feel that cannot do without onions. Same thing for AIP foods - I cannot handle raw tomatoes or peppers - but cooked seem to go over well enough. But again I shouldn't be consuming them more than twice a week.    

 

So if you take the perspective on Okay let's figure this out - I am going to accept that I feel crappy today - but I know this is not going to be permanent - it does become better.  

 

2 years ago I felt I would never be able to lift heavy things and be active again - My sciatic nerve got trapped in my deteriorating cartilage of my knee joint and I could not feel my leg for 9 months.  I felt that it was never going to get better.  But better it did get.  And just 2 weeks ago I started lifting again.  Not nearly as strong as I was - but the fact that I am able to do it makes me ecstatic. 

 

But for now I agree it does suck.  But you will go through it.  Feel free to throw a temper tantrum for 5 minutes if it will make you feel better.  But for 5 minutes only - then you have to move on and figure it out.   

[dizilizi]

I inadvertently reduced the amount of fat I am eating and things have settled down although I am so hungry.

I'm LDS, and we fast once a month, Sunday was fast Sunday. I can only fast one meal and even then, it's difficult because if I fast, I can't take some of my meds as they upset my stomach. Anyways...for lunch I had roasted veggies and grilled chicken thighs. For dinner I had a beefalo burger with a portabello mushroom, lettuce, mayo, dill pickles, and tomatoes. Breakfast Monday was scrambled eggs, with greens and some fruit, lunch was the last of the roasted veggies and chicken apple sausages, dinner was grilled chicken salad since I couldn't have the street tacos. Breakfast today was a veggie baby food pouch and 2 chicken Apple sausages. For,lunch I had a grilled chicken salad and an apple. I had very little fat and was hungry within a couple of hours. I ended up eating some almond butter as a snack. Totally held me over until dinner. Dinner was amazing, German potato salad, chicken Apple sausages, and saur kraut. I'll see how tomorrow goes.

I am torn, part of me hopes my doc is right and it's my gall bladder, but the other side is hoping it's just food. I am a teacher, I don't have time to mess with surgery and recover, but I totally love food and don't want to cut some things out of my diet. I do plan on asking my doctor about AIP and FODMAPs and see what she thinks when I go in next. I do know that there are foods on the FODMAP list that I can't eat, avocados and mangos are not my friends, they make me so sick almost instantly. Onions and garlic have never bothered me. On my first W30, I stopped cooking with garlic, most of the recipes didn't call for it, when I added it back in about 3 months later, I didn't notice any difference in my gut. Broccoli, cooked cabbage, and cauliflower make me bloated, so I am avoiding them right now, though I didn't notice any problems with the kraut this evening.

My days are so long, up at 5 or earlier, out the door by 6, at work by 7, teach all day, leave between 3:30 and 4:00, go to the gym or PT, and home around 6pm. Then if my husband or kids haven't cooked, I need to get dinner going. If I cook, it's 7ish before we eat, the. In bed by 9:30. Because I have to wait an hour to eat after I take my thyroid meds in the morning, I have started eating breakfast at school. The question is can I add more? Right now, I don't know.

I know this is a process. I loved how Melissa wrote about the grieving process as we give up food in the Whole30 daily emails. I know eventually, I will probably take out some of the foods and then reintroduce them, I'm just not sure when.

[Brewer5]

I am torn, part of me hopes my doc is right and it's my gall bladder, but the other side is hoping it's just food. I am a teacher, I don't have time to mess with surgery and recover, but I totally love food and don't want to cut some things out of my diet.

 

 

I just want to say that the removal of an organ often comes with a heavy price ~ and when you lose your gallbladder, you will have a whole NEW set of digestive problems to deal with.

 

You are hungry without the fat.  The gallbladder, as you know, is largely responsible for the digestion and absorption of that fat.  What is often recommended for folks without a gallbladder, who are having any sort of digestive problems?  You guessed it:  A high-carb, low-fat diet.  You probably know by now ~ that doesn't work out very well for most people.  Hungry all the time... forever?  No thank you!

 

So, let's just say it IS your gall bladder.  Let's say you have it removed.  You still have not corrected the underlying problems that caused your gallbladder to  malfunction in the first place.  You weren't just born with a defective gallbladder that needed to be removed ~ something caused it to be unable to function properly.

 

This all comes back, once again, to allowing your body to heal so that it is able to do what it was designed to do.  

 

When you burn your finger on the stove, your body lets you know that it is burnt by sending you a strong message to pull that finger back!  And you don't go and cut your finger off because it hurts.  You take it easy, and you allow it to heal.

 

Here is a great, detailed article from the author of the book I told you about above.  She will explain things to you much better than I can.

 

http://www.thepaleomom.com/2012/12/the-link-between-gallbladder-disease-and-gluten-sensitivity.html

 

"The take home message?  There is a strong link between gallbladder health and celiac disease.  In fact, a failing gallbladder may be your first symptom of celiac disease.  Of course, I believe that a grain-free, legume-free, dairy-free, refined sugar-free, modern vegetable oil-free diet is optimal for our health in every way; however, if you are suffering from gallbladder problems, then I recommend addressing your diet as soon as possible.  The earlier you adopt an anti-inflammatory diet that prioritizes gut health, the more likely you are to save your gallbladder."

[dizilizi]

So, my gall bladder is perfectly fine. Which is great news. I think we may have this all figured out, though I am cautiously hopeful. Testing FODMAPs may be in the near future, but I'd like to go over the list with my naturopath before I dive in. She is recommending stopping strict paleo while I test FODMAPs, I don't plan on following that advice.

The reason I am cautiously hopeful is that as I started a prescription anti-depressant, my gut settled down. Literally within 24 hours of starting the medicine. Looking back at the last month or so, the diarrhea started about two weeks after we started back to school following Christmas vacation. Could all of this be related to stress, anxiety, and depression? I'm going to give it some time and see if it comes back. in addition to the anti-depressant, I have added a probiotic, but that can't possibly work in just a few days.

Even if the diarrhea doesn't return, I may talk to my naturopath about FODMAPs. I have never noticed problems with foods in the avoid category, but there are several in the eat in moderation (yellow) that I cannot go near without becoming violently ill. Avacadoes, mangoes, pumpkin seeds, and possibly sunflower seeds. I love apples, eat them almost daily, especially since we live right in the middle of Washington Apple country and I can buy this year's crop at very low prices. $1/pound for honey crisp, less for galas and cameos. Cabbage is weird, I can eat it raw, in slaws and cabbage salsa, sauerkraut, doesn't bother me, but occasionally cooked cabbage does. So, I'm thinking FODMAPs, might be worth a go, when I'm ready.

I find it interesting how stress, anxiety, and depression really affect me. Suggestion or advice?

[CGinDC]

Random thought - my sister (who has done a few Whole30s) had some really bad inflammation last year and her doctor initially thought it was her gall bladder. Her naturopath suggested cutting eggs out of her diet for a little while, and that turned out to be the culprit. Perhaps it's something to try? (I know, it's removing yet another thing...but worth a shot). My sister can eat eggs in moderation now, but she had been eating significantly more than her body liked, and it presented as gall bladder pain.

[dizilizi]

I still need to run this by my doc, but I'm pretty sure this whole mess is the result of stress and anxiety! Funny how once I started antidepressants things have calmed down. It's not completely gone, but livable. I was cleared to start running again this week, so even though it's a progression program, I am excited to hit the road again and see the mileage start to increase. Running has always been my stress relief, but when i reinjured myself, well....yeah.

I'm sure we will double check FODMAPs, just to be safe, but, I'm not even sure what kind of reaction to look for with them. Getting sick right after eating foods on the list, well, I know apples don't do that to me, neither do onions or garlic. I've cooked with them for years, but if you feed me mangos or avocado, I'm doubled over and puking my guts out within minutes. So painful and not fun. I also don't combine sunflower seeds and pumpkin seeds, same reaction. If that's what I'm looking for, I think I'm good.

[praxisproject]

Stress alone can do it! Stress is pretty powerful stuff, physically. I used to take a lot of cortisol medication, which mimics a lot of the factors of stress in the body. It also causes big weight gain and diabetes

 

For some people, FODMAPs or nightshades are really specific. I know someone who turns bright red if they eat paprika, another who can't eat the skins off tomatoes while both are fine with other nightshades.

 

If you're willing to test it (totally understand if you're not! ) some people have trouble with mango skin but not the rest. Both avocados and mangos are also included in the latex-fruit syndrome allergy (bananas and plantains too), given you have had two reactions to this list, you may want to examine it in detail, it is often mistaken for a FODMAP reaction as avocado is on both lists.

 

Keeping a food log really helps, especially if you log the days or meals you're not feeling so good.

[dizilizi]

That is interesting! I have tested positive for a banana allergy, I still eat them occasionally, but I generally avoid them if they have started to brown because they are a migraine trigger.

I'm good with pineapple, strawberries, and kiwi. Hmmm...ill have to ask my doc about this. I will be removing FODMAPs for a week to see if I notice any changes. I'm not expecting any.

[praxisproject]

See how you go with the FODMAPs, if you don't get any changes, you might want to try the latex ones.